TonyTones

yeah it is looking like NQ is killing the game intentionally.

Hello,
 
I am not here to debate about Demeter.

But what happening in their mind when in the game designer's meeting they say:  
- "Hey let's remove all the T1 from 4 planets!" 
- "Can we?"
- "No, that too bad for the players."
- "OK, then let's keep only 1 T1"
- "But it's a T5 planets!"
- "You are right, let's setup the algorithm to only put max 80l/h"
- "Nice idea, let's du it! 
- "Haha, nice joke!"

By doing that you kill all possibility to use those planet to put industry on it.

Kind regards

NQ Staff Meeting Minutes:

NQ-Sesh: What could we do to make the game more miserable for them?
NQ-Pann: *laughing about the last update at the players expense*
NQ-Deckard: Well we just implemented taxes, so lets do something like player perma-death where if you crash you lose all your skills, items, and progress.
 

Feedback is simple, your update is poorly thought out. I'm not sure what the dev meetings must be like over there at NQ but let me make this KISS for you folks:
 
Currently:
 
Zero reason to build anything period outside of a ship. Especially now with your well thought out brutal tax on any grand building ideas creatives might have ever had for POI's. 
PvP that most hate and even the PvP'ers have to admit sucks in it's implementation, never mind completely broken risk vs reward balance
Player based economy is a joke with your constant meddling with bots & refusal to let players setup markets
Industrial gameplay that was put out of reach of all but groups or highly dedicated no lifers with endless time on their hands
Gigantic game world that is so sparsely populated deserts in the real world seem to team with life by comparison
Asteroid mechanics that defy game design logic in their implementation (I mean really is it THAT hard for you to spawn roids randomly and continually like literally every space game with mining ... ever?)
Completely broken organization tools that make managing any group harder not easier. 
Mission system that could have be automatic and really helped the game world when it comes to posting / payouts , instead is a hot mess of must be present hand shaking nonsense. 
 
I could go on honestly, but EVERY single time you people do an update you overcomplicate everything and make it a nightmarish chore, rather then simply go "here are auto miners, enjoy". Asteroids same darn thing, couldn't just create a asteroid belt in the game and have rocks spawn randomly for period of time, part in the safe zone part out? OH NO , you had to make even something simple like digging a rock the most arse backwards design of all time. 
 
*sighs* I am not sure what your grand vision for DU is anymore , but it certainly does not contain the word 'fun' for most people. Every update makes the game more grindy, more work, less reward. The only joy people seem to have anymore is sitting in Discord / Forums talking about game theory of what DU might have been if it wasn't what it is.
 

Update: So I did the things recommended....

- HQ'ed tiles I wanted to keep
- Moved to Space
- Tried going back to Sanctuary.
- Reduced My Expectations
- Even used a Beta Key to try restarting new...

I can no longer enjoy this game in the current state. There are jobs I have hated that were more exciting then the daily logins to Nanny your Mining Unit. Until the developers change the Mining Units or implement a new way to progress in the game there is no point in playing. I gave this update a try, I took all of the advice, and the progression rate which was already abysmal is now unbearable.

I love this community and the people in it, even those I disagree and fight with but I just can't DU it any longer. Not until they fix things, which is unlikely, cause they don't care if players leave.
 
Original Post:
I will be taking an extended and potentially permanent break from DU.
If you see me log in, it will be to kick (calibrate) mining units, post a haul mission, and sell things so I don't lose tiles. 

It is clear the developers don't respect the players or their time, and if the tax situation doesn't get fixed with the falling ore prices, no point in owning tiles to earn a little more than break even.

Also Sanctuary sucks...

( will be placing everything of value on HQ tiles to ensure no one scalps my stuff.)

The level of false advertising in just that one pic is insane

Yep.. just making things harder with nothing added and leaves me asking "why bother" when I log in and start something. Why gather ore? Why build that ship? Why build anything? just to pay tax?

Yep.. just making things harder with nothing added and leaves me asking "why bother" when I log in and start something. Why gather ore? Why build that ship? Why build anything? just to pay tax?

I think the fact that I spend so much time now since update on forums vs. building like I was... says a lot about the impact. Forums are now more fun than Chore Universe.

We already have them, they are called Novaquarks, and they have no understanding and mercy for us humans.

I don't play anymore but I'll jump in on this discussion.
 
End game right now in DU seems to focus on Asteroids, but that's basically out of reach for a new player within a reasonable timeframe.  Yes I'm aware that there are public DSAT's out there but that doesn't fix the issue.  A player still needs a ship to be able to reach said asteroid but sometimes you reach the asteroid and all ore is gone.  It has already been stripped so you've wasted x amount of time getting somewhere just to feel completely demoralised once you arrive.  That combined with that fact that roids only spawn once per week is a kick in the teeth if you can't play the game on a weekend.  Most if not all safe zones roids are gone typically by the end of the weekend.
 
So what other options do new players have, Setup on Sanc, deploy auto miners and mine surface rocks until your fingers fall off?
 
I understand this was all done to improve performance, but at the detriment of actually being able to progress.  This game was fun, but it became a job one which we are paying for, something strangely odd with that concept!
 
Some obvious fixes.
 
1.  Increase mining output of units.
2.  Increase No. of calibrations stored or increase the duration that a calibrated machine lasts for as the mini game is soul destroying!
3.  Increase the volume of surface rocks, add variety.  20L per rock when clearly they are all different sizes doesn't make sense.
4.  Mining talents should affect surface rocks
5.  Remove schematics from anything that can be made in the nanocrafter or better yet anything T1.
6.  Adjust Territory tax so it's a sliding scale, 1m for T1 and the same for higher tiers makes no sense at all.
7.  Dynamic spawning of asteroids, several times per week or even everyday.  You know like in EVE where roids actually work!
 
 

Someone already mentioned new player experience but I'm giving it a try to give detailed feedback. I am not new, but am currently going through the game on an alt as a new player with 0 quanta on sanc. I have 4 autominers now on Sanctuary but my tile only has 13 bauxite (others are just over 100). I automine a total of 116 ore per hour. I received 10k T1 from calibration. I can sell that to bots for 250k or less. Schematics to build M industry, parts, and refine pures is 5m or so. I can do all tutorials and get 1.5m?  That means I have access to 2m maybe.
 
I can get to space barely but will take much more time to get a ship that's able to do missions for example.
I can't buy a DSAT (18m) or schematic let alone equipment to build one in order to asteroid mine.
 
What that leaves is a waiting weeks for autominers to produce enough ore to make quanta or surface mining for 10s of hours. Even if I work my way up to mining on Alioth, still lots of afk waiting. Besides joining an org and getting free things, that's the options here. Is that intended? is there a solution in the works?   
 
Others have said get rid of early game schematics. That would help
 
To clarify, my issue with this is there's nothing to do early game because factory and asteroids have a huge quanta barrier. 
 

Someone already mentioned new player experience but I'm giving it a try to give detailed feedback. I am not new, but am currently going through the game on an alt as a new player with 0 quanta on sanc. I have 4 autominers now on Sanctuary but my tile only has 13 bauxite (others are just over 100). I automine a total of 116 ore per hour. I received 10k T1 from calibration. I can sell that to bots for 250k or less. Schematics to build M industry, parts, and refine pures is 5m or so. I can do all tutorials and get 1.5m?  That means I have access to 2m maybe.
 
I can get to space barely but will take much more time to get a ship that's able to do missions for example.
I can't buy a DSAT (18m) or schematic let alone equipment to build one in order to asteroid mine.
 
What that leaves is a waiting weeks for autominers to produce enough ore to make quanta or surface mining for 10s of hours. Even if I work my way up to mining on Alioth, still lots of afk waiting. Besides joining an org and getting free things, that's the options here. Is that intended? is there a solution in the works?   
 
Others have said get rid of early game schematics. That would help
 
To clarify, my issue with this is there's nothing to do early game because factory and asteroids have a huge quanta barrier. 
 

Do you really think that a completely random mining calibration mini game grind is FUN ?
 
 
Why, if this was a performance improvement do we still get pending ops when transforming the surface?
 
 

Where is the fun?

Someone already mentioned new player experience but I'm giving it a try to give detailed feedback. I am not new, but am currently going through the game on an alt as a new player with 0 quanta on sanc. I have 4 autominers now on Sanctuary but my tile only has 13 bauxite (others are just over 100). I automine a total of 116 ore per hour. I received 10k T1 from calibration. I can sell that to bots for 250k or less. Schematics to build M industry, parts, and refine pures is 5m or so. I can do all tutorials and get 1.5m?  That means I have access to 2m maybe.
 
I can get to space barely but will take much more time to get a ship that's able to do missions for example.
I can't buy a DSAT (18m) or schematic let alone equipment to build one in order to asteroid mine.
 
What that leaves is a waiting weeks for autominers to produce enough ore to make quanta or surface mining for 10s of hours. Even if I work my way up to mining on Alioth, still lots of afk waiting. Besides joining an org and getting free things, that's the options here. Is that intended? is there a solution in the works?   
 
Others have said get rid of early game schematics. That would help
 
To clarify, my issue with this is there's nothing to do early game because factory and asteroids have a huge quanta barrier. 
 

Someone already mentioned new player experience but I'm giving it a try to give detailed feedback. I am not new, but am currently going through the game on an alt as a new player with 0 quanta on sanc. I have 4 autominers now on Sanctuary but my tile only has 13 bauxite (others are just over 100). I automine a total of 116 ore per hour. I received 10k T1 from calibration. I can sell that to bots for 250k or less. Schematics to build M industry, parts, and refine pures is 5m or so. I can do all tutorials and get 1.5m?  That means I have access to 2m maybe.
 
I can get to space barely but will take much more time to get a ship that's able to do missions for example.
I can't buy a DSAT (18m) or schematic let alone equipment to build one in order to asteroid mine.
 
What that leaves is a waiting weeks for autominers to produce enough ore to make quanta or surface mining for 10s of hours. Even if I work my way up to mining on Alioth, still lots of afk waiting. Besides joining an org and getting free things, that's the options here. Is that intended? is there a solution in the works?   
 
Others have said get rid of early game schematics. That would help
 
To clarify, my issue with this is there's nothing to do early game because factory and asteroids have a huge quanta barrier. 
 

Someone already mentioned new player experience but I'm giving it a try to give detailed feedback. I am not new, but am currently going through the game on an alt as a new player with 0 quanta on sanc. I have 4 autominers now on Sanctuary but my tile only has 13 bauxite (others are just over 100). I automine a total of 116 ore per hour. I received 10k T1 from calibration. I can sell that to bots for 250k or less. Schematics to build M industry, parts, and refine pures is 5m or so. I can do all tutorials and get 1.5m?  That means I have access to 2m maybe.
 
I can get to space barely but will take much more time to get a ship that's able to do missions for example.
I can't buy a DSAT (18m) or schematic let alone equipment to build one in order to asteroid mine.
 
What that leaves is a waiting weeks for autominers to produce enough ore to make quanta or surface mining for 10s of hours. Even if I work my way up to mining on Alioth, still lots of afk waiting. Besides joining an org and getting free things, that's the options here. Is that intended? is there a solution in the works?   
 
Others have said get rid of early game schematics. That would help
 
To clarify, my issue with this is there's nothing to do early game because factory and asteroids have a huge quanta barrier. 
 

+1

Will there be a balance of T1 ores on planets? As in providing all t1 ores on every planet like before so that people can make fuel at the very least

The "extractions efficiency" and "calibration charge efficiency" talents don't work in VR, like missions, you don't think this will worsen the imbalance between players with one/few accounts and those who abused with 40+ alpha key or else by being able to leave his characters on site or in the mission ship?

This update is really difficult for new players, they can no longer easily use the services of other players for missions, especially in PVP where the presence of a foreigner on a ship is dangerous.
VR is like using a robot remotely, how can you not carry a simple package with them and put it in a container?

---
 
The changes in PVP are too weak and misguided to encourage interesting gameplay. He pushes people to play alone, in a ship without voxel, as small as possible and we lose everything that made the charm of DU, the multi crew.
You have to review the functioning of the shield and the CCS, understand what your game can support the most and orient your balance around that, to allow all kinds of gameplay and not just single player gameplay.
 
Do you think that a new round table around PVP would be possible? With the different groups that are involved in it, pirates as well as hauler pilot or roid miners.

---

Do you plan to leave friendlist lock that won't refresh? Because to follow allies on the move or in combat, it has become very hard.

Please explain your vision for how new and casual players and solo builders should be able to find an enjoyable game loop with Demeter.

I am not a huge fan of Demeter patch and the new coming features. But well, Demeter it's like the winter, you can hate it but it will still come.

Here is my feedback:

First you really need to improve communication:
I can understand that wiping the scans will make everyone at the same level on Demeter, but you can't say 1 month ago "Old scan are valid" and then flip your mind and change that.
We are playing a lot of hours by week and making plan on the future. Like in all MMO I have played, when a patch comes you prepare yourself for it. People have taken time to scan planet to get more scan to be prepare for the patch. 

One way of dealing with that could have be. "we are wiping scans older than x months".
Doing that you are preventing people that have prepare the patch to have loose all their time and for people that have very old scans, it's very easy to justify the removing of them.

Ore extraction should be more rewarding:
Some people were complaining about mining, I can understand that. But in other hand, because it was boring for some people it was rewarding for some others.
I lost the count on how many mega-node I have extracted, but every mega-node I have pulled out was very rewarding. 
First you had to scan for it and finding one was giving me a lot of joy every time.
Then when you finally mined it you were happy to have a very clean hole and a lot of ore in your pocket.

My new gameplay will be only pressing 2-5 buttons and waiting.... and waiting again. 
So every litter of ore will worth nothing in term of reward. 

New gameplays are more and more boring:
When a patch come in a game, you expect to have more content in terms of things interesting to do.

On patch 0.23:
You have introduce the schematics and it had a huge impact on the players. In term of gameplay it was not a new content, it's a restriction on current content. 
And with the exploits that some people had access (cheap schematics), you have added a huge gab between some players.

On patch 0.25:
You have introduce the mission system. First I was thinking, great it will add some content. But it's turned to be boring as hell.
Taking your container, pressing you key auto-pilot and waiting for 3h and thanks to the PvP (content made by player), we were able to kill some haulers. But you have stopped that also, by saying that using a spy on a ship was illegal without giving any alternative to PvPer to track ship in long distance.
And with the VR "exploit" you have let people get so many money that now the game is totally unbalanced.

On patch 0.26:
You have introduce asteroid mining and PvP shield. Again, first I was enthusiast with asteroid mining. But after having tested it I was very disappointed. It takes a lot of time, for a very tiny reward.
By doing that you are restricting the asteroid mining to people that can play more than 3h straight. 

And PvP shield have introduce so many bug that PvP was not playable for many weeks. And now that they work, it has reduce the creativity of people when it comes to build PvP ship. We are back to the cube meta (well now it's a rectangle).

On patch 0.27:
You are removing ground mining by replacing that with an afk mining.

Exploit should be fixed faster:
On every game you will have exploits, but the good game company try to fix them fast.

You should play more the game:
When we are watching the QA, many things that you say are disconnected from what game is. And you know should be more invested in what happening in your game. A good exemple is Sesch not knowing who Gottchar is.
If you were playing more the game you would see what people are doing, what they are expecting, etc...
Like in PvP, there is no way that you have done PvP. You would have change that directly.

Some positivism:
- Lately, it seems that you are listening a little bit more the community. That's a good point.
- You have done an awesome job on some relooking, making the game more beautiful.
- You have fixed some big exploit (stacking, warp)


Kind regards

Especially for new players, I wonder what they are supposed to do other than vacuum rocks... 
 
Setting up a base on Sanctuary? Enjoy trekking even further since it's now the only real "safe zone" and everyone will move their shit there. 
No point in going to Alioth, you can't afford the taxes as a fresh player and the "exploration" part of the game is gone now that there's no ore to mine.
No point running missions until you can get a proper ship.
No way to PvP or mine asteroids without a space ship either, and as a new player you aren't going to win any PvP encounter in this game's poorly conceived idea of "open world" PvP (inherently asymmetrical conflict).  
 
All because they decided to bury ore absurdly deep and turn their game into a mole sim. They didn't have to do that.
 
Now instead of "mole sim" it becomes a "lube up your miners and wait" sim. 
 
Fortunately, we'll be able to see how all this works out soon, there's little chance they delay the update for more tweaks. They've never adapted to player criticism before and I have no reason to believe they will now, either.

Just like schematics which they mentioned doing away with, This was thought out for a total of 5 seconds, implemented, and they will ignore feedback until they see numbers drop