Elrood

I don't understand why is this even a topic...

PvP space is a space where killing player is possible and actually should happen.... If you enter willingly - you face consequences. If you decide to enter again - you can die again. If you enter 10 times in a row, you can die 10 times in a row. Doesn't matter if this will be same player ganking a spot or 10 different players. Doesn't matter what the balance is, how disproportional forces are, is going to pvp zone even necessary, etc. All of that is beside the point. Whoever is in the pvp zone signed in blood and tears contract to be allowed to be killed and kill by solo action of being there.

To be brutally honest - in this game if you can't run or fight, you are nothing more but flying paycheck waiting to be cashed in. if you are dying over and over again at the same spot, you are minimal effort, probably lucrative (and dumb) paycheck. End of story. 

For the records, all that "doesn't matter" has an exception - exploits - those do matter, should never be used in practice and be dealt with by NQ asap.

A year ago I was in the same boat you are right now. My thought process was "All I do is just look at the spreadsheet and plop the required industries to spit out the part I want, this is very convoluted and time-consuming, blah!"

But then markets, industry and player progression and thousands of players came along. I think it's a great feature now and it was fun setting up my first chain to start spitting out industry units to haul with great effort to the nearest market to sell (they're heavy!)

All that was missing was the right context.

Honestly that was my biggest frustration with the interview.
 
JC needs to give players clear direction NOW on where is and isn't safe forever. It seems that he himself does't have his mind made up.
 
This is a huge issue - we have people who are building up on sanc because they are expecting Alioth to go pvp. These people are at a massive disadvantage from Alioth based players because Sanc players must haul all their ore in while Alioth players fly a few grids out and dig out much of what they need.
 
If it turns out that Alioth goes pvp, the players who built on Alioth expecting it to remain safe are salty.
If it turns out that Alioth stays pve, the players who built on Sanc have wasted days and tons of space fuel hauling ore from Alioth to Sanc just to keep their production running.

I also think to the Devs, getting everyone to one shard, and making it stable is #1 priority.  And as seen by the Beta launch, thats apparently not an easy task.  Like, sure there is EvE but lets take a minute to think about it. In eve you are just a ship.  Not an avatar, there are no voxels.  There are no customization to this level in DU that happens in real time.  Look at eve yes there are 2k people in Jita at one time. but 1800 of them are DOCKED.  And Jita has its own personal server.  Have you played eve when 2k people are on grid fighting? its 10% tidi (time dilation) and it is a fucking shit show, and can turn a 1 hour fight into 8 hours that goes at a snails pace.  NOT ONE single person in eve says they lke TiDi, but they deal with it as its the only way to not have the servers shit itself.  Planets,suns, etc in eve are meaningless to render as you dont really interact with them.  No gravity.  It is single shard, but gates with loading screens divide everything.  The VAST majority of fights in eve are 100 or less, and often way less.  You can play Hell Let Loose with 100 people on a server.  So what DU is trying to accomplish is pushing the boundaries of how many people can interact at once.  And to me, that is the most important thing.  Graphics have to take a back seat as this "single shard" everyone in the same "universe" is DU's biggest selling point.  We can sit here and argue how well they doing on performance thats fine, but the reality is they had to start small with the graphics.  Go watch old early Alpha footage.  The graphics are improving, but at a small pace.  Same thing happened with EvE.   Once they feel comfortable with server stability i expect more graphics improvements, but on smaller scales most likely. 

What is a bug? If it's not what the programmer wanted, it's a bug. The machine only executes what it is asked to execute, it doesn't know if it is what the programmer really wanted to do.
It's the same problem with perfectly legal tax optimizations, it is legal but when it is abused to circumvent things, is it what a civilization wanted?
The rules define how things happen, a bug/exploit will always be a valid mechanic in a sense where the program only did his job following the rules.
Based on that, the judgement of what is an exploit or not can't be deducted from the game mechanics, only NQ can make statements about this. Players can only deduct NQ's will about that.
 
The full maneuver right was given on our territorys to be able to clean up the space and to counter another mechanic allowing griefing: placing dynamic big cubes on a territory to make it unplayable for your target. Its current use to hijack ships is perfectly valid, but it isn't its purpose. I really believe that NQ is not happy about that and they couldn't publicly speak about this feature to avoid revealing it to players and making it worst. But now that this is here, they will probably make statements soon. This is the exact same problem.
 
If it's technically possible, we need the opposite of "Parent construct" right : "Child construct: Gives your construct the rights to be parented by another construct."

Let me spell this out for the few of you who still think this is EVE 2.0, it’s not, get over it. You want EVE, go play EVE.
 
Second, it was already stated on the DU Press Discord that just because NQ is not talking about exploits and punishments, it’s not going to happen. They where very clear that they are going to take action against players abusing game mechanics, specially duping items and such, but not limited to that only. The information is there in black and white, and they even stated that there will be a general public announcement soon enough once they close the loopholes.
 
Third, you can not interact with any construct anywhere, including the PvP zone, that don't belong to you using the maneuvering tool unless it’s inside a tile claim by you, for obvious reason, or the construct’s core is destroyed. So the ability to “dock” a ship using that to another ship with the soul purpose of “stealing it” is not a valid game mechanic or an intended one, just a side effect that will be remove soon enough and screw over the legit player that will now get harassed by people parking huge cubes on their property. But I’ll explain this down below for those of you who still think this is all legit gameplay.
 
And last, just because you can do something in a game doesn’t mean that is legal, some stuff is not intended and it’s simply either a bug or an exploit. And if you find it, stop using and reported for review or continue to abuse it and face the consequences of your actions later, it’s up to you. NQ has been very clear that the safe zone is just that, a safe zone devoted of any PvP where people can be safe to leave their items. I’m all for PvP and I can’t wait for it to be worked on and expanded but this is not PvP at all. People found a way to circumvent a game mechanic to gain an unfair advantage, which is the very definition of what an exploit is. Territory PvP or actions are not part of the game right now, but like I already mention here before, there are 4 ways to get around this that allows players to steal ships, or destroy Satic/Dynamic/Space cores and steal everything anyone has, even on Sanctuary Moon or the markets or inside safe space which again, has been stated very clear to be safe areas that people can leave their stuff.
 
I’m not here to tell anyone to do or not do something, if you think you are right, go right ahead, just don’t come crying when actions are taken and the game changes for the worst. We can’t discuss moderation actions against players on this forums either, but believe me, action has been taken already against some players that continue to circumvent game mechanics for their advantage. Just go to the regular DU discord and ask in general chat, people will tell you.
 
I’m also 100% sure that what the OP think happens wasn’t really what happened. The tile was claim to be able to use a current exploit, because of the weight of the ship itself and the cargo weight, because His ship, M Core according to him, wasn’t maneuvered into an L ship to take it away to the PvP zone at all, it was destroyed right there and dismantled on that tile, and that took the 15 minutes to claim the tile and maybe another 5 minutes to destroy and repair the core and maybe any red elements necessary to fly it away, that is it. I’m all up for PvP and piracy but this wasn’t any of that. I want the game to evolved like everyone else but not based on exploits.
 
 

Sorry, no, this is maybe according to "letter of law", but definitely not spirit of law. Safe zone was designed to be safe, not design to trick people into false safety feeling. 

Thats an unintended consequence, not amazing stuff. 

If such a device existed that allowed players to teleport directly to a market hub to buy and sell things, it would totally break the logistics aspects of the game. There's no way this will ever happen. It seems like your issue is more that you keep crashing, which is certainly a big problem, but this is not the way to go about fixing it.

Imho, theoretically yes, its just much much harder to prove and not worth the effort as its not affecting negatively (or any other way) anyone else but a person who alt f4. 

In that light, you definitely got a point. 

This is a non issue  - all the newbie speeders can be turned into planes. 
 
Covering 30km at ~400kmh takes about 5 minutes.
 
You can buy a few more engines and push that speeder up to 700km/h.
 
Travel time is a major component of DU just like it was in EVE.
 
Only thing I would change is adding the tutorial step to turn your speeder into a plane.

True that the game is science fiction not realism.  Good science fiction in general follows science to some degree to make it feel possible.  When we are getting basic math wrong it kinda breaks a feeling of realism (for me).  The big issue for me though id that the game seems to want us to be smart, to work out ways to get an edge etc.  Refining on a (non safe) planet is a risk.  It means that you either have to accept loss if you get attacked or take measures to protect your assets.  It creates game play.  If  it pays more to just land.  Hide in a hole and fly out again.  Well that seems bizarre.  High risk and effort should give greater rewards, shouldn't it?

basic transfer unit - move 1 type of item. 
Uncommon transfer unit - move 2 types of item. 
And so on. 

Recipes would need proper adjustments, new UI would be need. Everything else about them stay the same.

Currently the input/ output for all containers of every type is 10. This can be very limiting for larger builds. So my idea is not to change these limits but instead use hubs as a means of adding more links. 
 
as of now the current setup lets you like 10 containers to a hub and the hub provides the 10in/out like a normal container.
 
my idea would change it so that you could you 1 in And out to link to another hub leaving you with 9 in/out on each hub. This would have the benefit of giving your container systems more in/out ports as well as provide cargo access points, as a small screen, around your ship/station. This would have an unlimited amount of in/out And storage though as you could just link more and more hubs and containers.
 
This could also be limited by making a new “master hub” item which could act as a hub for hubs And not use the normal links and be limited to 10 hubs just like how hubs are limited to 10 containers. An item like this would mean you could link 100 containers and have 100 in/out ports  Max on one system.

Thats all on videos. You don't have additional factor of player controlling what is happening on the screen + muscle memory + reaction and prediction of movements. As far as i know there are (not really scientific but good enough) tests which shows that higher frame-rate is easier on our brain - easier to predict what will happen, easier to track movements, etc. Thats one thing.

Now animation - you are partially correct - depending on which animation technique will be used - this what you said was especially true in 2D world. Fortunately animation technology went ahead. Especially with meshes with skeletal animations  as much frames can your machine pump, as many different frame there will be between two different "key" - so set by animator - frames. 

Erm you do realise that is a community driven document, NOT their own FAQ lol  Make your 'ignorance like no other' comment seem a bit ironic tbh 

"This FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) document is a volunteer driven community effort to address the most common questions raised in the game.  It is NOT a training manual, but rather a quick answer source of information."

I agree, however I am allowing for the "Its beta" arguments to be valid for now.
 
What I don't agree with is bullsmacking nonsense like this effluent lifted straight from their own FAQ:
 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qzsYBxgM0_bXrecBhfJJ__4n_43ZCrIY5r-X5fskKZo/edit#heading=h.s18k14uker8h
 
 
That has to be the worst cop-out, justifying ignoring performance issues in a game. It shows their ignorance like no other.
 
- Movies and TV are a low frame rate, because people are sitting and only watching it. They are not in control of it. Its easier on the eyes with the pre-defined motion and scenes. Frames blend from one to another in various technologies across film and digital, to where the issue of being low-rate is not "perceived" as being "terrible".
 
- Games are in the hands of the controller. The moment you drop it to a pathetic 30fps, then all manner of discomfort is created. It lags, its unresponsive, and being in control of the direction of action is hindered.
 
- Anyone who "claims" that you don't see above 30fps, is a blind fool. And those who say you don't see more than 60fps "so there is no point to a 144hz monitor" are clearly idiots who have never played a single game on a 144hz monitor at 90+ fps.
 
- Arguably, DU IS a First Person Shoot-em-up game the moment they added 'tools' in hand you have to aim and use ad nauseum, and 'weapons' on ships that you need to 'aim' and blow up other people in a 'PVP' setting. So that excuse that DU isn't an FPS, making it acceptable to have piss-poor frame rate performance, is just downright apalling.
 
- Even a top-down RTS with low frame rate sucks. So where is the rationalization here?
 
Anyhow...... one can be hopeful they pull head from the dark crevasse and will actually improve the abysmal performance this game has over the course of the beta period. If not, then I can see many, many subscriptions getting cancelled.

You cant really compare the two games though, whilst SC is visually impressive all of the assets are fixed and locally stored, DU's main overhead is caused by the sheer scale of the game (single shard) and the fact all the assets are player made, meaning that the game has to cache / render on an going basis.  Two VERY different games from that perspective.  Just because a game looks impressive, doesnt mean it should be more PC hungry (something I always called the 'Witcher 3' argument).  Your concept that graphics is the only thing that effects performance is a bit flawed.

The good news is that optimisation is happening on an ongoing basis, the game is LIGHTYEARS better than alpha, and has also seen great strides since the hell hole that was full beta launch.

My irony meter just broke..... you owe me a new one

Still confused why we are arguing over a pvp zone which is completely optional for players to enter, in a game where the main pvp mechanics have not even been properly outlined, let alone confirmed.

not buying anything is a strat decision, and im progressing fairly well tbh, i just have a decision to make now. btw i didnt say i wasnt selling stuff. another asumption. im just not buying.  and i have several TCU's ready.   theres nothing in this game i havent seen before elsewhere. just some odd design decisions, so just because i didnt start in alpha i wouldnt assume i have no idea what im doing.
 
the game dev's also said there wouldnt be any automated mining, and its in the future roadmap now so i wouldnt worry so much about what the devs say , whatch what they do instead. i would put money on resources being changed to respawn rather than deplete.

I have a shop in a S core in our org’s and I have a factory in a L core at a different location. I’d like to be able to have a screen at my factory telling me my stock levels at my shop so I know what to grab for a stock run. Seems it should be simple, but it’s between cores. It would b sad if the only way I could do it would be a screen shot, or having to go there in a Br pod rather than having a display on the factory floor.

Back? hardly. $20 is a pittance especially for 3 months of game time. It's sandbox/factory building has provided decently entertaining so far, and even if I quit playing it tomorrow, I'd look back fondly on my time and consider that well spent.

What is currently happening is that there are a lot of people who are PVP oriented who are just ganking. They are in the game for one reason only; to kill other players. They are not interested in creating content, in having great fights, they just want to find a target, shoot and kil it and move on.. If they get the impression the target will actually come prepared and ready to fight, they run away. I have seen several of these instances now and it is these players that cause the concern and the unhappy feeling with those who do not want to be engaged.
 
On the other hand, I see the ones who are genuinely PVP oriented and I believe would not run away from a fight but actually want and take it defend the gankers (because they feel "their" gameplay of choice is attacked) which results in skewed opinions of each other in the process.
 
At the same time, NQ is very clearly not focusing on PVP as what the game revolves around, it is part of the game and it is something you need to account for and expect. If however PVP turns out to be groups of players randomly roaming and destroying what  others create with no reason but that they are able to do so, DU will become a wasteland, those that stay will go underground, the surface will be empty and lifeless which is what NQ does not want.  NQ has said they will create territory warfare in a way that it favors the defenders and we already know that TU wil be pivotal in that. There is more than enough known now to start preparing your base/city/community for the coming of TW and if you don't well, that is on you then.
 
In space there will always be skirmishes and small scale combat, just like in EVE those events will hardly dent the overal game evolvement and are just a part of everyday life in DU. NQ needs to bring in mechanics that allow non combatant players to minimize the risk which means (E)CM like jammers and radar lock breaker, maybe even voxel material with stealth-like properties making it much harder to get a lock in the first place.
 
And yes, NQ wil need to run several balance passes on weapons as they are currently way overpowered. At the same time radar needs to give more detail, if PVP players see a target is "just" a shuttle it becomes less of a target, now they make the effort to approach and engage and have no idea what they are attacking really outside of core size. So the choice is to just engage anyway and see what happens, if there is more information they can make the choice whether or not to engage in the first place.

Removing PVP from the game would be bad, it will make the game stale and one sided. Having way overpowered PVP does the exact same thing. Having a game just for builders will not bring in the revenue NQ needs, having a game where PVP is dominant would do the same. NQ will need to balance these two sides and they will need to do so in the next 6-8 months probably at least to the point where the way forward becomes clear. Right now it is way too early to really draw any conclusions as NQ is still busy fighting fires on their backend servers and they can only really progress once they have that stabilized.

People who are concerned about the resources in this game have no concept of the sheer scale of this game.
 
We could all be mining 24/7 for the next year and we still wouldn't be close to mining everything out.
 
 
Asking what you do in DU when resources run out is like asking what to do in Elite Dangerous when the galaxy is fully explored.

I still hope they will do something like albion tiered approach with safe zones with basic materials (would be tier 1 and 2 for us) and everything outside progressively less "safe" with highest tier resources in completely free for all zone. 
But my hopes are diminishing with every new information