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Anaximander

Poll : DACs are not physical objects and cannot be stolen or dropped upon death.

  

84 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you like the fact Dual Access Coupons are NOT physical objects and CANNOT be stolen via piracy or other means?

    • Yes
      55
    • No
      29


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Not the end of the world for me - concept would have been interesting however.

 

I don't think they would have been the largest commodity stolen later on however, enough people would play it safer. Thus, see above.

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Not the end of the world for me - concept would have been interesting however.

 

I don't think they would have been the largest commodity stolen later on however, enough people would play it safer. Thus, see above.

Say bye bye to the concept of banks though, cause money is also digital and can't be dropped on death. Also, say bye bye to mercenaries hired to protect people delivering DACs to buyers as well. In general, bye bye to much of the emergent gameplay. So yeah, it's quite a big deal.

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I'm pretty ok with DAC being virtual currency, unable to be stolen. Only players that could argue here are scammers. You can earn DAC by killing and looting players -> selling their stuff -> buying DAC from market, it will just need a little bit more work...

 

This decision is not having worse effect on emergent gameplay than existence of DAC at all, yet developers need to live from something and keep developing, so existence of DAC is understandable. And to developers who are reading this... don't worry - the negative voices are usually the loudest. But it doesn't mean that majority of players agree.

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I think if you're following a very rare financial model such as this the best you can do will be to take follow closely what others using this model have done. PLEX works as a physical object in EVE Online and creates fun gameplay around the risk from transporting it.

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Since it'd include Drop on Death, I can not like this. Imagine you're out exploring, maybe got a few DACs with you that you plan on using later. YOu have them with you because you don't trust your base protection enough to leave the next months of playtime in there, because if they get stolen, you lost the tons of time you invested in them plus the money for an actual sub, if you want to continue playing. Now, through whatever environmental circumstance you die, days away from the next RN. Your DACs will be gone, so will be a potential long-time user. Sure, for all the raider-types out there it would be a nice feature, as they wouldn't have to put much effort into staying in the game then, but for more peaceful players, I see no upside to DACs being stealable

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I'm pretty ok with DAC being virtual currency, unable to be stolen. Only players that could argue here are scammers. You can earn DAC by killing and looting players -> selling their stuff -> buying DAC from market, it will just need a little bit more work...

They CANNOT be stolen, nor be dropped on death. Confirmed by NovaQuark on Kickstarter comments' section.

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Say bye bye to the concept of banks though, cause money is also digital and can't be dropped on death. Also, say bye bye to mercenaries hired to protect people delivering DACs to buyers as well. In general, bye bye to much of the emergent gameplay. So yeah, it's quite a big deal.

 

Yea money being digital means only physical goods can be stolen and sold for digital money. The dev stating that DAC's will pretty much also be digital as well. there is 2 precious commodities that we wont need protection for.

 

Edit: Someone said something about eve system, they are digital until they are loaded into your account inventory for use. This means you can store excess digitally and only move or activate what you need. If you sell them they can be stolen up until the buyer uses them meaning no loss of real money for either player but a loss of digital currency for the buyer.

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They CANNOT be stolen, nor be dropped on death. Confirmed by NovaQuark on Kickstarter comments' section.

 

I know and I'm happy with that. But if I didn't express my opinion (that things should stay as they are), we would be left only with opposing opinions.

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As stated in the other thread:

 

Bad idea by NQ.

 

Removes emergent gameplay.

 

No one wants DACs to be stolen because of funding the account. It has to be steal-able because of gameplay and the motto of DU

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I can see both sides to this debate, but I am having a hard time trying to verbalize a reason for why I think DAC's should be stealable. 

 

I think my concern lies more with the effect this could have in the future. I am concerned that this may lead to a situation further down the road where more items are can't be stolen, and it creates a secondary market of items that can be used as a store of value without risk of theft. 

 

If the intention in the future is to be able to allow for player-run banks, doing that would of course mean opening up the risk of banks defaulting and players losing all of their money. It's part of the inherent risk in a player operated bank. But if a player operated bank decided to store its value in something like a DAC, they could be reasonably sure that they could maintain a certain store of value backing up their business, and also operate without fear of losing that store of value. That would be a negative impact to the sandbox nature of running a business like that in game.

 

On the other hand, I can see why people would prefer to not risk DAC's being stolen.

 

I think that Eve Online handles this problem quite well, in that PLEX don't have to be redeemed into a character account when they are bought, you can redeem them into any station that you're docked in. Also PLEX can be activated remotely, so you never really have a reason for needing to transport it. Thus, PLEX can be stolen, but there aren't a whole lot of good reasons why you should ever be in the situation where your PLEX could be stolen from you. 

 

I suppose this decision hints at a larger feature, as I'm getting the impression that this decision was made due in part to the nature of the way that Markets work ingame. I'm presuming that this means that Markets can be stolen from, seeing as how their inventories are physically stored locally. Thus if markets can be "robbed", then it would making selling DAC's on markets extremely dangerous, and in a way not really worth it for the sellers. They'd be taking on most (if not all) of the risk.

 

 

I guess I'll finish this with a question for Novaquark:

 

- Can markets be stolen from? Robbed, destroyed, attacked, etc?

 

 

If that is a planned feature, then stopping the theft of DAC's was a smart decision overall I think. If it's not a planned feature, I'm having a hard time seeing why this decision was made, seeing as how DAC's could otherwise be stored safely in markets just like in Eve. 

 

I'll withhold my judgement until we hear more about that aspect of gameplay. 

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Honestly the best way would be to have them digital until you want to use or sell them, then they become physical, a smart seller would protect them until they are collected and a smart buyer wouldnt buy too many rand risk loosing in game currency when they are stolen. No risk to the original transaction this way (from the sellers point of view)

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Honestly the best way would be to have them digital until you want to use or sell them, then they become physical, a smart seller would protect them until they are collected and a smart buyer wouldnt buy too many rand risk loosing in game currency when they are stolen. No risk to the original transaction this way (from the sellers point of view)

 

I approve this message!  B)

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if DAC are stealable then it will become a physical curency, so much more than just a pass to the game, generating lust and abuses in all the bad ways

 

For example new players aware of nothing, carying on a freshly aquiered from a Steam promotion package, 20 Dacs without really knowing what it is, but for them just a 2 monthes subscribtion to the game, and loosing them on the first day?

 

What would long time players say to this new player?

- Its your fault, you should have read the 20 topics about on the forum and devblog before playing?

- You must join us on the behalf of our hole mighty organisation we will secure your future 15€ spent?

 

This topic is a joke right? 

 

How would NQ reach 100 thousands players if the 5000 first players from alpha already planning to literrally scare the shit out their pants the  995 000 that will join at realease

 

Be realistic and stop thinking you are already the Emperor of the Universe, but do compromises for this game to be THE game that will fit a majority not a minority

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Yes, I support their decision against lootable DACs for a variety of reasons:

  • I can't imagine the grief of spending money on DACs and losing all of it shortly after in-game. That's the stuff that can quickly turn players away, presumably those that are especially willing to spend a lot of money on the game.
  • Safe zones, like around the arkship, are apparently planned to be rare and far between. Trade with DACs would almost certainly only be happening in those safe zones if DACs were lootable, possibly giving safe zones an enormous economic edge beyond what they already inherently are going to have anyway. I'd rather there be several big markets with player-enforced security outside the safe bubble, the prospect of all trading hubs being located in safe zones feels pretty bleh. Unlootable money and DACs make active trading hubs outside safe zones much more feasible.
  • DACs are a form of currency, and RP-wise it only makes sense to me that currency would be all digital so far in the future.

The counter-argument concerning emergent gameplay feels weak to me, personally. Presumably you can still steal pretty much anything else, and there should be plenty of trade ships whizzing about moving all kinds of goods and resources, some of them bound to be very valuable, too. Looting crates of titanium and a cache of missiles makes for a better story than nicking someone's chequebook anyway.

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if DAC are stealable then it will become a physical curency, so much more than just a pass to the game, generating lust and abuses in all the bad ways

 

For example new players aware of nothing, carying on a fresly aquiered from a Steam promotion package, 20 Dacs without really knowing what it is, but for them just a 2 monthes subscribtion to the game, and loosing them on the first day?

 

What would long time players say to this new player?

- Its your fault, you should have read the 20 topics about on the forum and devblog before playing?

- You must join us on the behalf of our hole mighty organisation we will secure your future 15€ spent?

 

This topic is a joke right? 

 

How would NQ reach 100 thousands players if the 5000 first players from alpha already planning to literrally scare the shit out their pants the  995 000 that will join at realease

 

Be realistic and stop thinking you are already the Emperor of the Universe, but do compromises for this game to be THE game that will fit a majority not a minority

YOu are absolutely right on all of your points. But did you read my alternative solution to this. It would protect those "noobs" from this and still allow for dacs to be used within the game as an item that has a risk of being lost. I will let you read my post.

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...

I think that Eve Online handles this problem quite well, in that PLEX don't have to be redeemed into a character account when they are bought, you can redeem them into any station that you're docked in. Also PLEX can be activated remotely, so you never really have a reason for needing to transport it. Thus, PLEX can be stolen, but there aren't a whole lot of good reasons why you should ever be in the situation where your PLEX could be stolen from you...

 

Unless you were a newby like me who did not know any of that and saw that at some station some jumps away PLEX was selling for a lot more. :P

 

On topic; I will admit that I liked the idea of DAC being an item that could be stolen. Because to me its exiting.

 

But I can live with the fact that they are not. There will be other valuable items to steal. Maybe not directly from the market containers but most surely during transport. If someone is transporting a territory unit and you steal it I would concider that a big and valuable score.

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Two examples of when DACs should not be able to be stolen:

1) A casual gamer with a bit of time but no spare money has gathered enough resources to purchase next months subscription in the form of a DAC. Then it is stolen, potentially losing DU a player forever.

2) Kickstarter DACs. They are a major component in nearly all the backing options. Losing the lot on the first day is sure to also lose players.

 

Call it their own stupidity, losing players due to a game "feature" is not desirable.

 

Why should DACs be able to be stolen?

1) Curbing the super rich player from dumping thousands of DACs to effectively purchase entire orgs.

2) Encouraging piracy and in turn security forces. This is emergent gameplay.

 

Converting DACs to physical items at your spawn point would put the risk on the seller and the buyer could immediately digitize it again. It could work.

 

But wait. The DAC dealer can dump a thousand DACs anyway. Being able to steal DACs won't actually change this. And are there not other resources, elements, blueprints, entire ships that can be pirated?

 

My 2c

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YOu are absolutely right on all of your points. But did you read my alternative solution to this. It would protect those "noobs" from this and still allow for dacs to be used within the game as an item that has a risk of being lost. I will let you read my post.

 

I did read it, when i saw it i remembered someone who proposed that those DACs could be physical and virtualy withdrawn one by one, from your DU account from a kind of ATM, instead of carying them all, all  the time.

 

But that is still all about game mechanics that lot of people at start wont be aware of

It was a good idea, if a good awarness is made from NQ at the begining about it

 

But, imagine you are a week away from the first ATM and run out of fuel or time when you reach the end of your subscription...   Rage!!!?

 

It could be a way for NQ to keep a perimeter of expansion anyway

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I will admit, not being able to steal or loot DAC's is making me reconsider my emerald Kickstarter pledge.

 

I feel like this decision is catering to the wrong audience for this game. 

 

think about other aspects, like for example a very recently mentionned topic about LUA, where you could hire (afk or not) mercenaries for your automatic minings and productions

 

giving you a very strong employment power

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think about other aspects, like for example a very recently mentionned topic about LUA, where you could hire (afk or not) mercenaries for your automatic minings and productions

 

giving you a very strong employment power

That can be done even if DACs are lootable. Your arguement is null.

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That can be done even if DACs are lootable. Your arguement is null.

 

good point, he has you already!

who dedicated your life to this game (2033 posts), maybe will buy a computer specialy to run an afk player making sure your full production line working 24/7

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