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Anaximander

Poll : DACs are not physical objects and cannot be stolen or dropped upon death.

  

84 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you like the fact Dual Access Coupons are NOT physical objects and CANNOT be stolen via piracy or other means?

    • Yes
      55
    • No
      29


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I'll continue to say, I think they should have followed the Eve Online model.

 

- PLEX does not have to be converted into an ingame item immediately

- You do not have to be in the same station as your PLEX to redeem it

- You do not have to bring it into the game to redeem it

- If you convert it to an ingame item, you can trade it to other players

- If it is an ingame item it can be stolen while moving it through space

 

 

Why do people move PLEX through space if they can just redeem them from wherever they are? 

 

That is a question nobody will ever really have a concise answer to, but it's something that happens and many people suffer the consequences for taking that risk. 

 

have no idea about Eve, so why is it that covetable if it can be made physical just a second before beeing traded?

 

so its not about the one who originally has it who take the bigger risk, if it is none, but the one who recieve it in exchange of something else

so the one who really spent real money on it has poor chances to loose it, but the one who didnt, but found a way to get it, will have all the risks, because not transferable into virtual unlootable good

 

one fair solution, following your opinion would be to make physical the DAC only after beeing traded once

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People are debating almost as if the dev's haven't already decided.

This reminds me of the debate that emerged when Gaia Online had released details of the RPG, and people lost their minds when the RPG would have nothing to do with their avatar items. There was a debate, however the devs were already mostly done with the game.

 

So what's the goal here, is there some plan to mass-withdraw unless they change this? Because I'm not seeing that either

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one fair solution, following your opinion would be to make physical the DAC only after beeing traded once

 

 

Well, or shortly before trading. Increased risk = increased reward. For example: I'd pay 500€ for a DAC in a Safe Zone. But I'm an explorer and often days of travel time away from the trader. So, I pay three times the price to have it delivered to me.

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People are debating almost as if the dev's haven't already decided.

This reminds me of the debate that emerged when Gaia Online had released details of the RPG, and people lost their minds when the RPG would have nothing to do with their avatar items. There was a debate, however the devs were already mostly done with the game.

 

So what's the goal here, is there some plan to mass-withdraw unless they change this? Because I'm not seeing that either

Well, NQ have been really awesome with the community so far, so we hope that they keep listening to us, because the community is what in the end will make or break this game

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Well, NQ have been really awesome with the community so far, so we hope that they keep listening to us, because the community is what in the end will make or break this game

I would agree that a community could break a game, especially if they beg for a feature that will be detrimental to it.

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Well, or shortly before trading. Increased risk = increased reward. For example: I'd pay 500€ for a DAC in a Safe Zone. But I'm an explorer and often days of travel time away from the trader. So, I pay three times the price to have it delivered to me.

instead of going on DU website and get it for cheaper, instantly and safe?

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I would agree that a community could break a game, especially if they beg for a feature that will be detrimental to it.

I'm no expert on those things, but in my opinion, making the DACs just an additional premium currency is more harmful than what we propose

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have no idea about Eve, so why is it that covetable if it can be made physical just a second before beeing traded?

 

so its not about the one who originally has it who take the bigger risk, if it is none, but the one who recieve it in exchange of something else

so the one who really spent real money on it has poor chances to loose it, but the one who didnt, but found a way to get it, will have all the risks, because not transferable into virtual unlootable good

 

one fair solution, following your opinion would be to make physical the DAC only after beeing traded once

 

If you buy it for yourself, you can use it at anytime, however if you want to trade it to someone else you have to convert it into an ingame item to trade to someone else.

 

If someone buys it from you, they don't have to fly to you to get it to use it, they can just select it from their assets inventory and activate it from wherever they are in space. 

 

So the only point to converting one into a game item is to trade it to someone else on the ingame markets. However trying to physically fly that ingame item to somewhere else takes on the risk of losing it.

 

In eve there is a maximum distance for which you can place buy orders on markets, so people inevitably fly stacks of them out to deep space to sell on hard to reach markets. When the population of a given region of space changes, people inevitably end up moving those PLEX to different markets to try and sell them. They, however, are taking on a huge risk to try and move such a valuable item in hostile space. The reward for doing it through could net someone 10%-20% more in profit than they would in other regions of space. 

 

 

 

Perhaps a good balance might in fact be to allow DAC's to be lootable after they have been traded, but I would lean towards the mechanic that makes them lootable once they enter someone else's inventory. That would prevent people from selling DAC's to someone far away and then immediately stealing them. I can see a whole slew of issues that could arise from that type of mechanic though.

 

I still think the Eve system would work fine for DAC's. If we want to trade them, we take on the risk for bringing them into the game as items, if we want to use them we don't have to turn them into ingame items at all to redeem them. 

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People are debating almost as if the dev's haven't already decided.

This reminds me of the debate that emerged when Gaia Online had released details of the RPG, and people lost their minds when the RPG would have nothing to do with their avatar items. There was a debate, however the devs were already mostly done with the game.

 

So what's the goal here, is there some plan to mass-withdraw unless they change this? Because I'm not seeing that either

 

Um, because the Devs have been telling us all along that they are listening to us and that things could change depending on what the community wants? 

 

I thought that part was pretty clear. 

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Um, because the Devs have been telling us all along that they are listening to us and that things could change depending on what the community wants?

 

I thought that part was pretty clear.

If it were a democracy, sure. Even then I'm glad the apocalypic option is the minority

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It seems that many are missing the idea that, discounting the Kickstarter DAC or any other such sale, you wouldn't be buying DAC for personal use since you could simply get a subscription for a cheaper price. In this way, you are simply buying it to exchange for in-game currency on the market or, in a rarer case, gift it to a friend. By having it completely protected, it becomes an easy way to get ahead of the pack.

 

If they made it that it that the Kickstarter DAC cannot be stolen at all, or even for a period of time, it might provided a way to avoid this argument.

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I seems that many are missing the idea that, discounting the Kickstarter DAC or any other such sale, you wouldn't be buying DAC for personal use since you could simply get a subscription for a cheaper price. In this way, you are simply buying it to exchange for in-game currency on the market or, in a rarer case, gift it to a friend. By having it completely protected, it becomes an easy way to get ahead of the pack.

 

If they made it that it that the Kickstarter DAC cannot be stolen at all, or even for a period of time, it might provided a way to avoid this argument.

 

I believe the Kickstarter DAC protection suggestion + The mechanics of PLEX from Eve Online for DAC's purchased after launch == A Good Compromise

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I believe the Kickstarter DAC protection suggestion + The mechanics of PLEX from Eve Online for DAC's purchased after launch == A Good Compromise

Since I've spent all my likes today, I at least verbally agree with this very much

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I believe the Kickstarter DAC protection suggestion + The mechanics of PLEX from Eve Online for DAC's purchased after launch == A Good Compromise

I agree.

 

I would have no issue the original buyer being protected, but NOT for DAC to be a Premium Currency. If it's bought and needs to be hauled, it should be fair-game, the original buyer got their money's worth of in-game currency, the DAC is sold after that point and lootable.

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Since I've spent all my likes today, I at least verbally agree with this very much

I too would agree with this comprimise, despite that I disagree with theft of DACs more or less unilaterally: especially since new players aren't going to accidentally end up with DACs.

 

As long as the game cautions players that purchase DACs that they can be lost, and that the kickstarter DACs (which there will be a glut of and no good way to protect) are untouchable.

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I agree.

 

I would have no issue the original buyer being protected, but NOT for DAC to be a Premium Currency. If it's bought and needs to be hauled, it should be fair-game, the original buyer got their money's worth of in-game currency, the DAC is sold after that point and lootable.

Woopse I accidentally agreed with you! I change my vote!

 

Lol JK it is actually a reasonable proposal. Doubt this discussion will have a real impact, but who knows :)

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SO to sum up the points here the best compromise is -

 

  • Players who buy DAC's off NQ will hold them in a digital wallet until they choose to use or to sell them. Selling them converts to a protected item until they are picked up. (I somewhat disagree with this one, once they are converted they should be lootable (seller took the risk to market them)
  • Digital DAC's can be used directly from the digital wallet a player may choose to never take them out of there.
  • DAC's in the inventory cannot be converted back to digital
  • Kickstarter DAC's are protected regardless (this may give them a higher value later on and potentially cause people to hoard them so a time limit should be applied)
  • According to the devs market items have to be picked up so the buyer must travel to collect his DAC but can choose to use it immediately adding to his game time (If he chooses not to use it immediately he must pick it up) This rule is here so he doesn't get kicked out of the game at the end of the month but also makes them fair game for large corporations moving DAC's

Regarding a time limit i suggest the number of months equal to the number of DAC's you actually received giving more value to higher packs while keeping it balanced still (might help the kickstarter cause) or a set timelimit of between 6-24 months after that time they are no longer protected

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I'm still not sure I understand how DACs being lootable turn DACs into less of a pay-to-win mechanic than when they are purely digital.

 

Even more importantly, after three pages of discussion, actually I still don't see how DACs are pay-to-win either way. If I butcher my piggy bank to buy lots of game money I still can't just conjure up an uber weapon of mass destruction.

 

If I want to buy the biggest and baddest battlecruiser ever to gank noobz with my rich parents' money, someone still has to construct that battlecruiser first. Presumably someone who already is at least as powerful as I am as a newcomer with a golden goose next to my computer.

 

And the money I spend isn't just disappearing either. If I pay a million spacebucks to the ship vendor, now the vendor has a million spacebucks. On top of how he probably was already pretty well-off in the first place if he is in the place to sell expensive spaceships.

 

 

I guess my point is, so many people here are acting as if the devs allowed rich people to produce uber weapons out of thin air. But I have a hard time seeing how a newcomer with too much money to spare could just usurp the powers to be and become the next kingpin. Every time they spend money, people around them will profit. And you can still loot, capture or destroy whatever they bought if they don't know what they're doing with it. If they bought expensive materials, you can attack them and snatch all of it. If they buy a big battleship, you can gather your boys to zerg them and show everyone what you think of rich people privilege. And so on.

 

 

It's getting late here in Yurop, sorry if my ramblings are becoming a little incoherent.

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Oh boy, where do I start. (I'm amazed that I read so far)

 

OK let's start with: this discussion on various channels has NQs attention, after all I got this info face to face from them yesterday :-D

(But nothing more regarding this topic other then "we are still discussing the details" which means it is almost set into stone)

 

But to clarify some things here what DACs are, which purpose they have and indirectly imply:

  • 30 Days of playtime
  • They are meant to allow active players with low rl income a way of playing the game without spending money
  • Financing alt chars without paying again
  • Giving a financial ingame boost by trading them
  • Pre-paid server run time for NQ
  • A very little tool to keep the rl money black market shallow

 

What they are not:

  • A pay to win method (even if you buy 100 DACs good luck trading them with a reasonable profit)
  • The holy grail of trading
  • something physical in game (even though there is no confirmation on that yet)

 

And if you think about it DACs shouldn't be physical, they represent game time, this is something that should be never ever stolen from someone.

 

"But EVE online has PLEX which can be stolen!!!!!"

Yes but EVE also has a very unique environment which allows a guarantee that they are safe from any unwanted access,

but at the same time to be more profitable to ship somewhere else at a very high risk.

 

DU isn't EVE and from the looks of it any physical item will always be at risk depending on your precautions.

So as long DACs can't be stored 100% risk free, there is no argument that could justify them to be physical.

 

In DUs case I don't think that limiting DACs to a local market would be a good thing, this could really dampening the exploration side of the game.

So something like a central "stock market" for DACs accessible for every player regardless where he is would work better in DU as EVEs model.

A "stock market" approach could even be used to "limit" the pay to win scenario, that people are worrying about so much.

I have no problem with "rich" individuals ensuring a lot of free game time for other players this improves everybodys experience in the long run. (Much like: this)

 

I personally like the idea of having them physically but I gladly give up this trait for a better overall gameplay.

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What they are not:

  • A pay to win method (even if you buy 100 DACs good luck trading them with a reasonable profit)

 

Then, what's the point in buying DACs at first place? Only an idiot would spend 18€ in a DAC to not profit in-game from it..

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Say bye bye to the concept of banks though, cause money is also digital and can't be dropped on death. Also, say bye bye to mercenaries hired to protect people delivering DACs to buyers as well. In general, bye bye to much of the emergent gameplay. So yeah, it's quite a big deal.

 

If you think the only things worth fighting over in a game are actual money and its real-world equivalent, then I've got some news for you...

 

No, but seriously. EVE has this mechanic, and a tiny fraction of the game play has anything to do with PLEX thefts, ganks, or plans to engage in such. Yes there are people who do this, but not very many of them. Their successes are few and far between, and if the ability to move PLEX was removed the game would not suffer very much.

 

I wish DACs were actual objects, but I'm not going to spend any time crying about the fact that they're not.

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@Demonneo

Maybe he is an idiot, maybe not. Pure subscription is far cheaper then a DAC anyway.

 

There could be various reason why you want or have one.

 

Bought from a third party distributor. (Game Stop, gog.com, Media Markt etc.)

Stocking up for a longer time of absence and reactivation later.

Distributing in your org.

A reward for some sort of contract you made.

For your alt char.

 

You name it.

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