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NQ I am extremely disappointed with wrecks.


Musclethorpe
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14 minutes ago, OrionSteed said:

I've been saying this forever too. I think the hope was PvP was the sink for parts, but it hasn't panned out (yet).  If you're an industrial player, you have to be creative to keep busy.  (Btw I seen one of your ships on Teoma a couple days ago =))  Karl something...

 

PVP and destruction helps the whole game.  Look at EvE.  There is a ship dying almost every couple seconds in that game.  And that ship will need to be replaced.  Industry guys are always busy as [filtered] in EvE.  We had a group who made our caps back when i lived in lowsec, and they were over-worked. (we liked to yolo dreads, lol) but it gave them great purpose and they were non-agressive and didnt really like to pvp, but they LOVED being important, and knew we needed them for steady supply of caps.  Sad NQ doesnt realize this

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8 minutes ago, VandelayIndustries said:

 

PVP and destruction helps the whole game.  Look at EvE.  There is a ship dying almost every couple seconds in that game.  And that ship will need to be replaced.  Industry guys are always busy as [filtered] in EvE.  We had a group who made our caps back when i lived in lowsec, and they were over-worked. (we liked to yolo dreads, lol) but it gave them great purpose and they were non-agressive and didnt really like to pvp, but they LOVED being important, and knew we needed them for steady supply of caps.  Sad NQ doesnt realize this

Yes, it's evident to me that PvP will be the lifeblood that saves this game. I'm not a PvP player per se, but I fully support PvP players and any changes that help that playstyle. I've said that there has to be a point to it all, and although rudimentary, Athena is on the right path to creating more content.  It has a ripple effect with everyone else.  More goods will be sold (fuel, warp cells, engines, other elements, etc. etc.), more point to mine ore, ore prices rise and that creates its own opportunities.  They always talk about sink and faucets, without destruction or decay, there is no sink.  Keep it coming!

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Just now, OrionSteed said:

Yes, it's evident to me that PvP will be the lifeblood that saves this game. I'm not a PvP player per se, but I fully support PvP players and any changes that help that playstyle. I've said that there has to be a point to it all, and although rudimentary, Athena is on the right path to creating more content.  It has a ripple effect with everyone else.  More goods will be sold (fuel, warp cells, engines, other elements, etc. etc.), more point to mine ore, ore prices rise and that creates its own opportunities.  They always talk about sink and faucets, without destruction or decay, there is no sink.  Keep it coming!

 

Agreed, anytime I go out to pvp or "try to" im always needing to to market at some point to buy cells, and kergon.  So it really is all connected.

 

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On 2/17/2022 at 8:59 AM, CptLoRes said:

To use NQ's own words they want finding wrecks to be an rare and "exclusive" event. Because you know, this game already has so much general content that they needed to add something special for the hard core players.. sigh..

 

And to illustrate how bad it is. I have been playing the game for as long as it has existed, and I have yet to even see one of those fabled wrecks...

And then there is also the small problem of wreck value not even coming close to justifying the time and effort apparently needing to find them. And while the value of the new space wrekcs may be higher (to be confirmed..), it is a moot point if nobody can find them in any sensible way.

I found one on lacobus, it wasn't very exclusive, it had pulsars for agg but no agg and i was the first one to happen upon it as i had to dig it out of the ground

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If wreckage is added as the pillar Exploration, can we just cut down that Pillar.

 

Adding somethind like trash as exploration is totally meaningless when you first state we can explore entire galaxies, have stargates, etcetera.

 

Adding some trash in space or whereever and call that incentive to explore is the same as lets say add special cores in space and call it incentive to PvP or add static cores and say that is justification for building Civilization Pillars.

 

Adding stuff like this to fill a pillar that once had potential just breaks down the game and is not more then adding a mod in space engeneers that places random loot. Know how many mods there are in SE? Please add more serious stuff but i guess that for the serious stuff the server payments will rize and well, thats not going to happen right?

 

There is a reason almost everywhere you go in DU its quiet, there is a reason the chats ingame ar quiet. maybe dont add silly stuff but incentives to actually play and be present On the planets/moons and have meaningfull playtime around buildings.

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Without an easier way to find wrecks, it’s never going to be worth the time. Why not have them as a part of the mission system? “A derelict ship (core size) has been spotted at xyz. You are tasked with salvaging it, to eliminate a possible hazard for your fellow travelers.     You have X days to complete this task before the construct’s core destabilizes and self destructs (despawns).”

 

Then, you add some exotic/unique elements to it that can’t be found elsewhere. Higher rarity and quantity in PvP zones. Make sure the spawns are random, but in proximity to planets/in the pipe. Local missions could drop common or uncommon parts in a random unclaimed tile on planets as well.

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On 2/23/2022 at 1:08 PM, VandelayIndustries said:

 

PVP and destruction helps the whole game.  Look at EvE.  There is a ship dying almost every couple seconds in that game.  And that ship will need to be replaced.  Industry guys are always busy as [filtered] in EvE.  We had a group who made our caps back when i lived in lowsec, and they were over-worked. (we liked to yolo dreads, lol) but it gave them great purpose and they were non-agressive and didnt really like to pvp, but they LOVED being important, and knew we needed them for steady supply of caps.  Sad NQ doesnt realize this

EvE also has a tiered insurance system. It’s easier to yolo PvP when you can recoup 40+% of a ships raw value. There’s a lot more risk mitigation in that game, especially for new players. I would say that also contributes to funding industry and not just the destruction aspect. Then again, I haven’t played EvE in well over a decade.

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On 2/26/2022 at 10:49 AM, Novidian Prime said:

Without an easier way to find wrecks, it’s never going to be worth the time. Why not have them as a part of the mission system? “A derelict ship (core size) has been spotted at xyz. You are tasked with salvaging it, to eliminate a possible hazard for your fellow travelers.     You have X days to complete this task before the construct’s core destabilizes and self destructs (despawns).”

 

Then, you add some exotic/unique elements to it that can’t be found elsewhere. Higher rarity and quantity in PvP zones. Make sure the spawns are random, but in proximity to planets/in the pipe. Local missions could drop common or uncommon parts in a random unclaimed tile on planets as well.

 

Use radar logging, if you can't be bothered to sit at a desk for 20 hours at a time.

 

If you don't know how that works, archhud has a ok implementation of abandoned constructs in 1.7 but it still has issues, as does any player made Lua.

 

I agree with everything else and would add, it's soo not worth stopping warp to turn around to pick up a xs core.

 

The risk vs reward is actually significantly worse than harvesting rocks when you account for warp cells.

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On 2/16/2022 at 3:06 PM, Musclethorpe said:

NQ, I had hoped you had taken this to heart.

 

 

I had hoped we were being offered an alternative to mining/manufacturing and courier work. A chance to play as a humble scavenger. If this expectation was either misguided or unrealistic, please read no further. However, if this was the goal...

 

...what exactly were you going for? It's been a week and I have roamed PvP space, both in-between planets, and out in random directions for a couple thousand SU, and have not found so much as an XS wreck. It feels as if you took your implementation of asteroid finding and went in the complete opposite direction to the extreme. Unless the goal was to just have us chance upon a wreck, here are a few reasons scavenging is completely untenable.

 

- Detection distance: Space, as you know, is very big, and 2 SU is "needle in a haystack" metrics.

 

- Rate of travel: This problem is two-fold. One, if traveling at maximum speed you are doing about 2.5 SU per minute (forgive my math if I am off). This means that you have less than a two minute window on your hours long search to see a wreck IF it intersects your search sphere right down the middle. The second issue being braking distance. Due to the detection range being so small, even a slight delay in seeing a wreck dead ahead could lead to you losing it in the backtracking process. Sure, we could reduce our cruising speed, but now we are covering less ground in an already astronomical search.

 

- Spotting the wreck: As I mentioned you have a very small window of opportunity to even see a wreck in the perfect conditions. Are we expected to stare at our screens the entire time we are searching? Sure, some one may (perhaps already have) write some LUA to make an audible alarm if a radar contact pops up, but it hardly seems reasonable to have to rely on that. Slow-boating anywhere is an hours long process and to be expected to sit in your pilot seat staring at space is completely unreasonable.

 

- Number of wrecks: Only you know how many are truly out there, but I will speak to the type of density needed to reasonably satisfy a scrapper such as myself. Over the course of, say, a four hour play session, I would hope to see roughly 2-3 wrecks. They don't need to be "What a haul!", but I do need to see something for my efforts.

 

In a game that has all but zero PvE, this is a great opportunity to add some that doesn't require AI, but we need reasonable tools to succeed! Increasing detection distance significantly doesn't meaningfully affect PvP (*ahem* such as it is) due to lock-on distances remaining unchanged, and this would be just the simplest of solutions. If I'm the only one who feels this way go ahead and ignore me, but if there are others out there that feel the same way, please speak up now!

 

Writing the LUA was the best part IMO.

 

I agree with everything else you've started. Rewards are crap, radar distance is too short.

 

With changes to core size I hope they revisit radar distance and make it a linear function, rather than a step function (5 Km to 2 SU is really stupid), as having it 3/5/10 SU would lead to issues with radar loading an entire planet.... Hence the linear function to increase the radar range as you get further away from a planets core.

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  • 1 month later...
5 hours ago, Musclethorpe said:

Just checking back in to make sure practically no one is finding wrecks with any consistency, and that this feature was so poorly implemented that it might as well not exist at all.

Just want to declare an opposite, I am able to find wrecks regularly, during mission runs and when explicitly looking for wrecks.

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I see the problem with the wrecks more in the fact that it makes no sense to look for them directly.

The value of a wreck is out of proportion to the effort and the associated costs. At the same time, there's no reason for players to go into space at all, just to find one by chance. Because there is no reason why you should "explore" space.

This is where we should start and create game content that lures players into space without obliging them to do so.

- Include all planets and moons in the achievement system
- Introduce profession of archaeologist who can find small mini treasures with a device like the DSAT (only smaller), these treasures then give housing collectibles, vases, statues, pictures, old furniture,...at the same time these finds are also a part of the achievements collection.
- The universe should be more interesting, more moons or smaller planets, gas clouds, asteroid belts or a debris field from an ancient battle...
- There should be small safezone areas, spread all over space, just enough to place 10 Space-Core-L in them. So players could build their own space bases "somewhere" in space and have a permanent safezone there - whoever builds there first wins the minizone. Accordingly, there should be many of these zones, after all, the solar system is huge. 

If these ideas and more are in the game, wrecks would also be more interesting again, since you could stumble upon them by chance on exploration flights or adventures.

 

Edited by Zarcata
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On 2/23/2022 at 3:41 AM, Musclethorpe said:

So that's it then, NQ? The box is checked and we're on to the next update? PvP content without first addressing the glaring core issues of PvP? 

 

To say this leaves me jaded would be woefully understated.

Welcome to NQ development. Sounds great on paper but super lame once it's in the game. 

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