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CURRENT DISINTEREST THROUGH YOUR WIPE STATEMENTS


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12 minutes ago, FryingDoom said:

"The only case of a wipe will be if NQ sees no other option."

Rather says it all doesn't it. There are a lot of other options than a full wipe. 

 

Exactly, meaning we will keep our BP and skill points, but every thing else wiped.  Look, in end it doesn't matter much what NQ says,because they will do what they think is best for them and will make them the most money, or highest chance at game suriving.  Whether that's to wipe or not. But only NQ decides that.  Some people may say wiping will hurt the game but all that matters is NQs view on that, no one else.

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1 hour ago, FryingDoom said:

"The only case of a wipe will be if NQ sees no other option."

Rather says it all doesn't it. There are a lot of other options than a full wipe. 

 

You seem to think you can spin this as a "no wipe" statement by taking a single sentence out of context.. The statement actually makes it clear that for NQ a wipe is an option, like it alwasy has been.

 

What NQ has always said is that they will try and avoid a wipe if possible but will wipe if they have to, and the full quote you posted says the exact same thing.

I also do not know from when this quote is but it can't be recent as NQ has been quite open about having the wipe firmly on the table and the working choses really implies that a wipe is going to happen, it is the when which is stil being debated.

 

You and several others love to try and spin "no plans for a wipe" as meaning "no wipe" and at the same time try and make "if NQ sees no other option" as "there is always other options". Neither is the case.

 

  • NQ has made one mention of a "final wipe" prior to beta but has since very clearly rolled that back to "no current plans, but we will if it is needed"
  • There are very direct and valid arguments to be made for circumstances currently in game which really only can be corrected with a wipe
  • There is a good indication that NQ has made the decision for a wipe closer to release some time again, possibly even at or shortly after beta started, and has based how they responded to the fall out of exploiits and other (player) actions or unforeseen side effects of changes  on that internal knowledge

 

 

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10 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

It was such a joy for us Alpha backers to finally see some massive progress in the game with voxel meshing, it changed the way the game felt and looked. It was really the first major step which showed progress. I recall the first time coming out of the first tutorial building after voxel meshing was in place and see the whole district rendered in as it was supposed to be, not as a blob of material. It was for me a moment where I got the feeling NQ might just be able to pull this off.

It is true that the mesh server made the game much more playable.

 

But at the same time it also highlights how much NQ is struggling with voxels.  The entire point of using voxels in DU, is that voxels are an extremely effective way to manipulate large 3D datasets. Which then in theory should make it well suited for streaming and multi user manipulation, and the reason why DU exists at all.

 

So it is a bit ironic that NQ's solution to making their self made voxel engine perform, is to not use voxels... I.e everything you see in the game except for when you are building, are plain vanilla 3d meshes (converted by the server when you leave build mode) using the built in Unigine engine LOD and mesh streaming features. So NQ basically spent years trying to make their streaming voxels work, and after all that work had to fall back on existing Unigine features instead.

 

And it also makes the extreme lag we seen in the game, make no sense. There is no reason why DU should have so much lag compared to other MMO's, other then.. well.... NQ. And it should be very clear by now that I have very little faith left in them.. ?

 

 

 

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The voxel blob issue would have never been solved, it was not solved in Landmark and plagued DU up to the point of birngin in the meching april last yeear. The point was that doing so to me inidicated that NQ was both willing and able to move beyond their "we'd like to do it like this" and go for "we can make it work like this" instead. Had that process been more prevalient and ingrained in their design process, DU woudl probably be a very different game today.

NQ has shown a few times they could make and accept a change form their original plan but it took them a very long time to get thath, wasting that time in the process.

 

To me, the biggest hurdle is that NQ still thinks they can make the game work based around "we build the systems, players will build the content" combined with a very short term focus on goals and planning.

If NQ does not change course and starts changing the core of the game to accomodate more PVE content which in turn might well have an angle/entry for PVP as well AND make that content valuable for other systems and mechanics in the game regardless of who brings this value in, the game wil never come to life.

 

 

If there is nothing to gain, nothing to contest and nothing to see conflicts emerge over, there is no reason for communities and society to exist. At hte same time, if combat is the only option in a game to resolve conflict then the same applies.

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4 hours ago, FryingDoom said:

"The only case of a wipe will be if NQ sees no other option."

Rather says it all doesn't it. There are a lot of other options than a full wipe. 


This quote comes from a long time ago, in the meantime there have been changes. The last one was already clearer.

 

Quote

We explained several times that a partial is on the table and actively discussed internally (like... actively). The prime idea being to reset the economy if we can, following all the changes of the beta. But we also understand that the time players have invested in the game is precious, hence the intense debate internally. We will announce our plans in due time, we're just not at a point where we can do that right now.


And yes, resetting the economy logically includes all skills, as skills have enormous economic influence.
Similarly, BP would have enormous influence, as many constructs contain millions of values. So only empty BPs would be possible here, if you had to fill them again with materials before you could set them.


 

Empty BP
Quanta resett
Skill resett

sounds like a FullWipe to me.

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8 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

While this is mostly the press release (which is a real shitty piece of writing to be honest).

 

Pulling a comment about a wipe out of it to suit  your narrative while you ignore what is a few lines down:

"Players can expect this pricing model to carry on after the game’s launch in 2021"

 

Should kind of tell you how much value this piece really has after everything that happened. This was written under the smokescreen JC dropped around the "beta" and his continuing dellusion of unrealistic timeframes for progress and release. As it stands this piece is outdated and made obsolete by more recent statements and commenst by NQ leadership which directly contradicts most of it.

 

 

Point is, I'm certain there will be a wipe, it wil be close to "release". Apparently @NQ-Sesch said on Discord that NQ plans to have a stetement around it sometime January next year. That in itself makes me fear the worst in that NQ may plan to do one, maybe two more big patches and then wipe and just drop the "release".

 

  

Exactly, just a reminder that NQ never planned for a "public beta" until they announced it April last year. Development was supposed to remain backers access only up until release

JC really screwed the pooch big time with his stubborn personal reality bubble.

 

A press release is information provided by NQ. I don't know what you mean by "shitty writing" to be honest. It's quite factually showing anyone who said NQ never pushed the no wipe beta that they are wrong.

 

"Players can expect this pricing model to carry on after the game’s launch in 2021" means exactly what it says, I don't even understand the link you made between the two. I think a price change of a dollar or two is a far cry from deleting effort and time investment for two years.

 

NQ very clearly sent out press packs trying to lure players in with the promise of no wipe beta whether you like it or not.

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Keeping BP's, as some mention, is really dumb.

Like, what do I need a BP for when I have a 175 core base, and aligning bp's is a pain in the *ss.

Also, most of our bases have large landingpads which are just flat area's to park on.

 

I really dont get the 'wipe and keep BP's' comments, but  pretty sure the comment are not from builders

 

As if, it doesnt take time to get the materials to build up your base again.

 

This game SEEMS to only have players left who want to make money. This is no building game for them, its a business game.

Just money money money, its not like peeps are talking about building projects or anything. Just about how much money they can make.

Not about the amount of ore they can get for their project.

NQ even pushes and promotes people to sell their ore for money and not use it for building!!

 

In that perspective, NQ has gone the right way with this game with demeter, since the artistic builders have left the game.

Now only pvp and money makers remain.

 

To me, I am like the OP, a builder and I liked the game for that. Had a max of 55 mil of quanta, just because I won a game in chat (50 mil). I was happy, I had me stuff and when I needed more, just went down to a planet and mine for more materials.

It looks like that the building part is very much gone. So Im out to look for another game... Like Starship EVO for example.

1 hour ago, Kronskie said:

link

 

 

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5 hours ago, Sabretooth said:

Keeping BP's, as some mention, is really dumb.

Like, what do I need a BP for when I have a 175 core base, and aligning bp's is a pain in the *ss.

Also, most of our bases have large landingpads which are just flat area's to park on.

 

I really dont get the 'wipe and keep BP's' comments, but  pretty sure the comment are not from builders

 

As if, it doesnt take time to get the materials to build up your base again.

 

This game SEEMS to only have players left who want to make money. This is no building game for them, its a business game.

Just money money money, its not like peeps are talking about building projects or anything. Just about how much money they can make.

Not about the amount of ore they can get for their project.

NQ even pushes and promotes people to sell their ore for money and not use it for building!!

 

In that perspective, NQ has gone the right way with this game with demeter, since the artistic builders have left the game.

Now only pvp and money makers remain.

 

To me, I am like the OP, a builder and I liked the game for that. Had a max of 55 mil of quanta, just because I won a game in chat (50 mil). I was happy, I had me stuff and when I needed more, just went down to a planet and mine for more materials.

It looks like that the building part is very much gone. So Im out to look for another game... Like Starship EVO for example.

 

 


Well. I put in some of my ships quite alot oftime since some sort of voxelmancy is done and fixing naughty corners.
I would prefer to only have collect the resources again instead collecting the resources again AND put 10 hours back into building. :D
Besides that i would rather create new designs to re-create lost designs. So alot would be just lost forever.
Also some pieces are made that i couldnt repeat it 1:1 again. (Unpredicted voxel behaviour = Mistake Feature!)

If you have just a flat plane its obviously not neccessary to have a Blueprint for that.
If there is a way to easily align blueprints it might be also super useful for bigger bases.

But i guess you are trolling anyway.

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15 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

You seem to think you can spin this as a "no wipe" statement by taking a single sentence out of context.. The statement actually makes it clear that for NQ a wipe is an option, like it alwasy has been.

 

It's not a "no wipe" statement and we all know that.  It's "If we have to wipe, we'll do our best to get you your stuff back"

 

There is just no way they can fulfil that promise and also intentionally wipe progress for the purpose of wiping progress.  I'm not saying they can't break their promise, but they sure as hell made it.

 

By intentionally ignoring that you're doing some pretty heavy spinning yourself.

 

This is not a discussion about whether NQ said they would wipe again or not, it's a discussion about whether NQ said they would intentionally revert paying customer's progress or not.

 

You can keep trying to have the other discussion if you want, but you're just disrupting the real discussion because you don't want to have it.

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On 12/3/2021 at 4:09 AM, Endstar said:

We have asked NQ to consider this: 

 

Release with a new system. All new accounts will only spawn in that system. 

 

All existing accounts are stuck in Heilous until a stargate is crafted. Make the craft time long like in the 90-180 day area. 

 

This gives new players a clean start without veteran interference. It gives existing players an option without a wipe where they cannot snowball over new players. By the time the stargate is crafted enough time has taken place to allow new players to grow without interference. 

 

Lastly it will add subs for NQ as some of you will not wait you will just sub a new toon to see and start in that system until the gate is open. 

 

Sort of a middle ground between wiping and not wiping. 

 

 

I can see a flaw.  Not sure if I'm right or not.

Wont multi account type players just buy some new accounts in the new world and with their knowledge, secure all the best hex with virtually no opposition.

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Hmm, I was completely under the impression that no player progress in any test phase is permanent. It's a huge boon that we get to keep blueprints.

 

Beta testing that puts you ahead of 1.0 players in anything other than experience is a bit ridiculous.

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14 minutes ago, Rok said:

Beta testing that puts you ahead of 1.0 players in anything other than experience is a bit ridiculous.

No more ridiculous then charging a subscription and selling the game as "a persistent universe made by players" in large bold letters on the front page.

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8 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

No more ridiculous then charging a subscription and selling the game as "a persistent universe made by players" in large bold letters on the front page.

I guess I had formed that opinion before that failure.

 

Is it being so open to player opinion that they can't commit to an idea that should have been expected, then compounding it by marketing contradictory to the idea? Or is it malicious?

 

Quite a hole being dug. For every player that would rave and cry about loss from a wipe, there will be more who were waiting for the game to launch only to find out they missed a year of making progress in the launch universe.

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23 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

 

Not understanding a partial wipe is realistically needed for the game to be able to survive past launch is simply naive.

Talking to you is pointless.  I understand a wipe is needed, I was clearly stated NQ could of at anytime made changes to prevent one.

 

Do you even play anymore?  What is your in game name?

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There is a big difference between saying you won't do a wipe, but by technical necessity you can't rule it out as a last resort when all other options have been exhausted, and planning a wipe or partial wipe and only finding out how much of a loss a player would take who put time and money into a product where the wipe itself was not planned as a fixed component, but only as a nasty surprise if all other measures failed.

However, we have already solved problems through a partial wipe, although it was probably not an extreme and unsolvable problem, but purely a financial problem. (Terrain Resett)

This partial reset did not have to take place, but was nevertheless sold as if it were absolutely necessary.

The same seems to be happening with other wipes. These are not necessary! Neither in the sense of old players, current players, nor new players. There are ways to lure new players into the game with a new solar system at the time of release, without this having a negative impact on the game experience for more advanced players.


 

Quote

 

Es ist ein großer Unterschied, ob man sagt, dass man keinen Wipe machen wird, diesen aber durch technische Notwendigkeit als letztes Mittel nicht ausschließen kann, wenn alles andere an Möglichkeiten ausgeschöpft wurde oder ob man einen Wipe oder Teil-Wipe fest einplant und nur herausfinden will, wie viel Verlust ein Spieler hinnehmen würde, der Zeit und Geld in ein Produkt steckte, bei dem der Wipe an sich eben nicht eingeplant war als fester Bestandteil, sondern nur, als eine Böse Überraschung, wenn alles andere an Maßnahmen Scheitern würde.

Wir haben allerdings schon Probleme durch einen Teil-Wipe gelöst, obwohl es wohl gar kein Extremes und unlösbares Problem gewesen ist, sondern rein nur ein finanzielles Problem. (Terrainresett)

Dieser Teilresett hat also gar nicht stattfinden müssen, wurde dennoch so verkauft, als das er zwingend notwendig wäre.

Gleiches scheint auch mit weiteren Wipes zu passieren. Diese sind nicht notwendig! Weder im Sinne für alte Spieler, aktuelle Spieler, noch für neue Spieler. Es gibt Möglichkeiten, um zur Veröffentlichung neue Spieler mit einem neuen Sonnensystem ins Spiel zu locken, ohne, dass dies negative Einflüsse auf das Spielerlebnis durch weit fortgeschrittene Spieler hätte.

Es ist reines Marketing, um Kosten einzusparen und keine technische Notwendigkeit. Entsprechend fühle ich mich sehr wohl betrogen.


 

 

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8 hours ago, Atmosph3rik said:

It's not a "no wipe" statement and we all know that.  It's "If we have to wipe, we'll do our best to get you your stuff back"

 

The initial statements by NQ which had this part, were based on the need for a wipe for technical reasons only, very quiclythough, and consistently over the past 18 or so months, NQ found that a lot of the damage is caused by exploits and mistakes they choose to ignore and/or let players get away with. The last time we heard that (from JC) was a little over a year ago. 
 

Inthe end, this is NQ's call to make and as far as I understand Sesch did say they plan on making this statement next month, I could see that being as part of the 2022 roadmap which wi also think will have  arelease timeframe fo rnext year. We'l need to wait and see 

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5 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

Inthe end, this is NQ's call to make and as far as I understand Sesch did say they plan on making this statement next month, I could see that being as part of the 2022 roadmap which wi also think will have  arelease timeframe fo rnext year. We'l need to wait and see 

 

 

You are right that they have absolutely no real obligation to keep the vaguely worded promise that they made.  But the fact that they made it matters.  

 

They used that wording to sell subscriptions.  I wish that they had waited until launch for a final wipe, and to start selling subscriptions, but here we are.  A lot of people wouldn't have subbed to a game that still had a planned wipe.  They would have waited too.

 

It might be convenient for NQ to do a full wipe at this point.  But if they do, they will be breaking a promise.  The promise to, as you put it, "make a best effort" not to wipe our progress. 

 

It might be too late for them to make that best effort.  But it's not too late for them to own up to the promise they made and figure out how to make the game work without a full wipe.

 

Legally i think they can do whatever they want.

 

Financially, it would probably bring in more money, short term.

 

Ethically, it would be a despicable thing to do.  And i hope they don't do it.

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I get what you are saying @Atmosph3rik when you say they made these primises to sell subs. I do not think so though. I think NQ, or better JC, was naive and blind enough to actually believe they woudl be able to keep such promises and just fix whatever cam etheir way.

 

As those of us who were there at the first day of play after they wiped the game, it took less then a day for several groups to amass a serious amount of gear and money well beyond what woudl justify an immediate second wipe and fix of the cause of the exploits. NQ allowed this to continue for another couple of days and then pretty much made their fist major mistake by not wiping again and instead covering things up. And we were talking 3 days after the post wipe game running the initial "beta" patch where several groups were already warping around, mass scanning and claiming tiles.

 

The official beta launch had not even happened yet.

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10 hours ago, i2eilly said:

Talking to you is pointless.  I understand a wipe is needed, I was clearly stated NQ could of at anytime made changes to prevent one.

 

Do you even play anymore?  What is your in game name?

I play with open hands, my forum nick is my game nick. No alts.

 

If a wipe is needed or not, is not the point of this discussion. The point is how the game is portrayed to new players wanting to join. The same new players who doesn't have any history or knowledge of what NQ might or might not have said in some discord/forum/video post that only the most dedicated have seen.

 

So in short. NQ has still not posted any OFFICIAL stance on the wipe thing. And that is a big problem when combined with subscriptions and how the game is sold on the front page.

 

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7 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

The point is how the game is portrayed to new players wanting to join.


Being honest, decisive, and listening to your community would never work in game dev industry. (sarcasm)

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19 minutes ago, Creator said:


Being honest, decisive, and listening to your community would never work in game dev industry. (sarcasm)

Especially when being completely open and honest about the dev process, was one of the core promises made in the Kickstarter..

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48 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:

I get what you are saying @Atmosph3rik when you say they made these primises to sell subs. I do not think so though. I think NQ, or better JC, was naive and blind enough to actually believe they woudl be able to keep such promises and just fix whatever cam etheir way.

 

As those of us who were there at the first day of play after they wiped the game, it took less then a day for several groups to amass a serious amount of gear and money well beyond what woudl justify an immediate second wipe and fix of the cause of the exploits. NQ allowed this to continue for another couple of days and then pretty much made their fist major mistake by not wiping again and instead covering things up. And we were talking 3 days after the post wipe game running the initial "beta" patch where several groups were already warping around, mass scanning and claiming tiles.

 

The official beta launch had not even happened yet.

 

 

There's no way for us to know their intentions but making those promises definitely sold subscriptions.  When someone considers a game like this, in development, that's usually the first thing they want to know, "when is the final wipe?"

 

If it were up to me, i would own the promises that i made, and the mistakes, and figure out how to fix the game without another full wipe.

 

I just hope that while they are considering whether it's a good idea to do another full wipe.  They are also considering whether it's a good idea to break those promises.  Because that will also have an effect on the game.

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2 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

They are also considering whether it's a good idea to break those promises.  Because that will also have an effect on the game.


They have dug that hole so deep, very little hope for them to restore the full trust they once had with a large portion of their community.

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Once more.. there is no promise of a "no wipe". Why do people keep trying to bring that up while it's something that never happened and is not a thing. 

 

In all the public statements and conversations NQ has had, expecially since JC was kicked out, they have very clearly left the possibility of a wipe on the table. And JC never, ever said there would not be a further wipe followingthe one a week before bett started.

 

I am convinced NQ already has made the call and from what Sesch said in Discord will make the statement in January.

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1 hour ago, Jake Arver said:

I am convinced NQ already has made the call and from what Sesch said in Discord will make the statement in January.


100%, they have no incentive to be open to us, cause they know they will do what they #(*&@ well please and they can tell us to stuff it. Cause they hope to get cash from the new players, they don't care about the current community.

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