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Creative mode is coming.. Seriously NQ?


NQ will introduce a creative mode in game  

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4 hours ago, Atmosph3rik said:

Would you throw a fit if NQ considered adding a way to preview what elements look like?  Or adding the actual dimensions of the elements to the description?  Because that would have the exact same detrimental effect on the economy.

 

Who's "grasping at straws now? None of this would hurt the game, in fact, it would be very helpful in making choices while not in anyway impacting the economy. I think it would be great actually if you could "ghost" elements in place to see what that would look like.

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How is this a thing? It goes against everything NQ set out in their vision and actively counters the work they are putting into getting the economy going. What is this with NQ that hey seem to be will

Love it how NQ desperatly tries to split up the community.   This pretty much goes against anything NQ ever said in any Podcasts, interview, devblogs and the kickstarter up until now. 

I dont get how people cant see this splitting the community. One of DUs good points is the voxel engine. Even with the limited creation tools we have now, people are still making impressive ships and

This might be a controversial opinion, but I don't think it's a problem if the community ends up split. It's never going to be possible to reconcile the wishes of players who want to play in a dangerous universe full of risk, violence, and competition over limited resources with those of players who just want a limitless sandbox where PvP, griefing, copying, etc. are all banned. I don't believe you can have "Second Life in space" coexisting along side EVE-style skullduggery and piracy without some pretty terrible compromises on both sides.

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17 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

Except the safe zone around Alioth, Madis and Thades, which is and will remain in place, offers all that.

Safe zones solve the problem if the only conceivable PvP actions are limited to shooting.

Consider a situation where someone buys a ship from a builder, flies it into the PvP zone, and gets their ship seized by pirates. Are the pirates forced to abide by the DRM imposed by the builder, or is the builder at risk of getting their Lua scripts etc. "pirated" by the pirates? Either option feels like a compromise to me. Pirates will feel they caught the ship fair and square and it's theirs to do with as they please, including reverse engineering. The builder hasn't left safe space and will feel it's completely unfair that his business is now subject to piracy.

Similar ideas apply to other non-combat forms of PvP such as market manipulation, scams, and even just building structures which create a navigational hazard.

 

Of course I'm not saying it's impossible to strike a balance between the two sides. It's just going to require a disappointing amount of compromise for one or both sides. EVE chose the "safe space isn't completely safe" option. I expect DU will compromise in the other direction, but creative mode could in theory be used as a way to keep both sides happy (or at least happier).

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14 minutes ago, Pathalogical Functor said:

Consider a situation where someone buys a ship from a builder, flies it into the PvP zone, and gets their ship seized by pirates. Are the pirates forced to abide by the DRM imposed by the builder, or is the builder at risk of getting their Lua scripts etc. "pirated" by the pirates? Either option feels like a compromise to me. Pirates will feel they caught the ship fair and square and it's theirs to do with as they please, including reverse engineering. The builder hasn't left safe space and will feel it's completely unfair that his business is now subject to piracy.

Similar ideas apply to other non-combat forms of PvP such as market manipulation, scams, and even just building structures which create a navigational hazard.

Hows that even am argument here? I mean.....even IF they implement this creative mode then you surely will sell your BPs you get in there at some point. Which can then be built and taken to pvp zone and taken apart.....

If you DON'T sell those BPs then you're only advocating for a single player version of DU and thus you never ever interact with anyone. 

 

I hope they at least make this creative mode really hard to maintain for players and make them pay 459483 million quanta per second if they use it ingame xD 

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2 minutes ago, Lethys said:

Hows that even am argument here? I mean.....even IF they implement this creative mode then you surely will sell your BPs you get in there at some point. Which can then be built and taken to pvp zone and taken apart.....

If you DON'T sell those BPs then you're only advocating for a single player version of DU and thus you never ever interact with anyone.

People were worried that builders would all abandon the multiplayer world and retreat into creative mode. In that case, NQ could add an optional "creative only" flag to blueprints allowing builders to trade designs and have fun flying them without any risk of people taking them into PvP areas.

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35 minutes ago, Pathalogical Functor said:

People were worried that builders would all abandon the multiplayer world and retreat into creative mode. In that case, NQ could add an optional "creative only" flag to blueprints allowing builders to trade designs and have fun flying them without any risk of people taking them into PvP areas.

Or, you know, NQ could just get this straight to ppl that this CAN happen. Doesn't mean it does. Cause That's what ppl here signed up for

Not a completely different game 

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I'm thinking like most people that this is been put on offer because they know the core element of the game is now broke.  Therefore give them something to 'toy with'.  It does diminish that really it should be all on one shard and maybe in someway this will reduce who is on the 'live' server.  I thought the point of DU is mine, build, design all in one server.

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11 minutes ago, Honvik said:

I'm thinking like most people that this is been put on offer because they know the core element of the game is now broke.  Therefore give them something to 'toy with'.  It does diminish that really it should be all on one shard and maybe in someway this will reduce who is on the 'live' server.  I thought the point of DU is mine, build, design all in one server.

Your probably right , future content will come but obviously it’s not ready yet

 

NQ will need to address the backlash of 0.23 and a creative mode does give players an option to build and design

 

Not sure if this will be enough for people while they wait for actual game content and also if you can move any blueprint from the creative mode to the actual game then that does move away from a single shard game

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As I have said elsewhere DU has an identity crisis going on. It's either a minecraft sandbox with no risk and the sole objective of getting youtubers to show off their "creations" to a fanbase, or it's meant to be an MMORPG where you actually have to strive to achieve something , with risks and challenges. Right now it appears to be leaning heavily one way , and if voxelcraft in space is not your cup of tea you will likely be dissapointed in the end.

 

The whole single shard idea can be thrown out the window once creatives spend all time time in some solo sandbox where they can access everything in the game without effort. Why would they bring BP's into the game world to sell? What on earth do they need money to spend on they have a whole solo world to build their ships and fly them around a little and never have to lift a finger to get resources, participate in the market etc.

 

The unintended consequences of deviating from the more hardcore MMO vision presented before is likely to turn the game into something many here won't like to play. Doesn't mean it will die, solo sandbox games have been popular for a long time. It just means those wishing for a universe full of life, drama, consequences and challenges will find themselves looking elsewhere eventually. Just wait till TW is announced as 'opt in' to make sure no one is 'forced to stay in the safe zone'.  I have no inside info on that, just my feeling given how fast they capitulated full stop on 0.23.

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I play Space Engineers, Empyrion, Starmade & DU. These are space based building games, o.k. not perhaps what this game wants to be, but similar. I use creative mode in SE & Emp, but I also play survival in both to.

 

I like creative mode, kick back and take some time building a ship that you really want to see ingame. The chances are some, infact probably most, will not get ingame as DU stands. But that doesn't matter, you have done it in creative and the challenge then is to try and get to a position where building that ship ingame itself, becomes addictive. You create your own game.

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On 12/12/2020 at 7:52 AM, blazemonger said:

Creative mode would pretty much split up the game into three.. The open world PVP game, the "no PVP please" safe zones and now the "I just want to build and not be concerned with cost and effort to get there" game.

Four, not three. How do we communicate in the game, or perhaps we communicate outside of the game using different platforms (like Discord) because very few people are using the in-game support chat (a global chat) and nobody is using the local chat at all? We don't communicate inside the game, so that is the fourth world man! 

 

I would recommend a local chat bubble over avatar's head. The point is to make it more visible and therefore viable way to communicate in-game. Past MMORPGs have proven it's effectiveness, use it! People will congregate in one area and communicate as what happened in other MMORPGs. The game is single-shard man but nobody is communicating in the game! What is the point of the single-shard, right?

 

This game does not look and feel "social" at all contrary to what they want this game to turn out to be! 

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This is my vision for the game:

This is the map of the world during 1000 BCE. Everything in blue are states and everything else are stateless. There were only 3 states during this period: Egypt, Rome, correct me if I'm wrong, I am not European nor North African, and Zhou Dynasty. My point: it's proven in history that a community can exists without a state. I am a libertarian ok! What I propose is possible yet it is impossible in this game! Everything that I saw in this game are solo players and communist orgs, that's it! You want to know the definition of communism? It is a command (centralized) organization which every single organization in this game is! So tell me if I will ever join an org? No one in this game have a system of a republic, no one in this game have a system of a private company. 

2880px-World_in_1000_BCE.png

We can't even solo the game and live in a non-communist community! You don't need a state to have a community, you need an area, that's it. Within this area, community and culture develops. Traders from this community will ship their goods to other communities to trade and other foreign traders will come to this community to do the same thing. A junk ship is used to do that! There is a network of trade like Silk Road, and with this, there is not only interchanges of goods but cultural influences as well, and migration.

 

It's not possible in this game man! The communism and lack of community outside communism man!

 

And the 100k daily Quanta per account which is a source of free equity everyday? Oh my god, what kind of system is this? It's no good man!  

 

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On 12/12/2020 at 8:08 AM, blazemonger said:

 

The point is that during a single AMA session, NQ/JC is directly contradicting themselves by justifying changes because the need/want  to see the economy starting and then turn around and pretty much announce a feature which will in fact be detrimental to the economy

 

They can't have it both ways, that is the main point and issue I have with their wishy washy decision making

Once again, all your doing is making a blanket statement "will ruin economy!" or whatever, but you refuse to give any specific details or examples of how it would hurt the economy. Just a broken record with no meaningful discussion, while others who are OK with this upcoming feature have already pointed out the benefits, and also pointed out why it wouldn't hurt the economy. 

 

Who cares if players can have a full creative environment to test build things? They still have to mine up or buy the resources for the elements, not to mention they still have to buy the elements or have the appropriate blue prints and skills unlocked to make them. Just because you have a blueprint doesn't magically override any of these things. 

 

Players have several ways to obtain the parts / pieces they need to build their constructs. A little common sense which I understand is difficult for some players to grasp or understand. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Palad1n said:

Who cares if players can have a full creative environment to test build things? They still have to mine up or buy the resources for the elements, not to mention they still have to buy the elements or have the appropriate blue prints and skills unlocked to make them. Just because you have a blueprint doesn't magically override any of these things. 

No they don't. Because they have a godmode with endless materials and they DON'T NEED to buy all those elements while they design a ship while they go through trial and error. 

AFTER they spent hundreds of hours in that creative mode while adding NOTHING to economy they come out with one BP. THEN it needs to be built and everything.

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4 hours ago, Palad1n said:

Once again, all your doing is making a blanket statement "will ruin economy!" or whatever

I never said that this will "ruin" the economy (or anything even close) nor did I make a blanket statement, I voiced my opinion which is not the same thing but that seems to elude you as in your biased way of reading comments from someone you assume will just be blabbing without merit or reasoning you are actually the one making assumptions based on your subjective opinion of another person.

 

 

As you seem to not really realize this and missed the actual opinion shared, let me spell it out for you once more;

 

NQ wants to drive the economy and expects solo players and small groups to use markets instead of build industry. That was pretty much literally said. VR mode creative sandbox will effectively remove the use of markets by that exact group of players with regards to experimentation, design and research. It will for that reason take away a potentially large chunk of interaction with and benefit for other players and the the economy. If designed the way JC discussed it, this will allow players to have unlimited access to elements and material, do what they want and bring back a finished product in the from of a blueprint. It will pretty much create the isolationist behavior by these groups that NQ specifically used as their reasoning for making the changes to industry now.

 

I said, and maintain that opinion, that VR creative mode sandbox is detrimental to the economy and so directly contradicts the intent NQ has and for which reason the (say) they are making these deep changes to Industry.  In fact, in addition to this, I expect many of the players NQ targets wit the Industry changes will just move to the VR sandbox entirely as all they want to do is build stuff.. So they will not take part in the game's economy at all.

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7 hours ago, Eternal said:

You want to know the definition of communism? It is a command (centralized) organization which every single organization in this game is!

You misunderstand communism and what organizations are. An organization can be set up in any number of a hundred ways. The bots forcing items to be bought and sold at an exact price is a much better example of what communism is.

 

An organization is a group of people with similar interests or goals. It can be expanded on and i would imagine, one day allow a way to pay members and even non-members for doing jobs for example. One day. Maybe.

 

And I agree a thousand percent, ingame comms are non existent. What I would like to see is a standard good keyboard chat setup, but also add to this.... I think everyone using microphones should be heard about 150 meters or so away. Similar to life. It allows for spying possibilities for one thing. Also you could just quite literally walk up to someone and say, "hey how are you today?" Except of course in places with no atmosphere. You will need types of channels from planet wide to private. And add local channels funded by orgs. It would be great if these were channels similar to radio and be one way. Imagine the ads some of these people would come up with. Afterall what else are these helmets for?

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