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Guest ShibbyGuy

Anti-PvP'ers VS. PvP'ers Balance v.3

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Guest ShibbyGuy

*This post supports Anti-Pvp'ers and PvP'ers with equal balance for all and not just favoring one side*

 

-Current Solar System remains the same with minor space traveling risks for those who don't care for PvP. It should be well known that you need warp drive to safely traverse the current solar system as well as have a radar equipped to protect yourself from being sniped. Un-prepared players are the victims here. The Safe Zones on every planet in the current solar system cater to the Anti-Pvper's which makes PvP harder to come by and is why PvP players want change. All players are protected at all times in the current solar system basically as long as they have a warp drive ready to go. You have a safe zone around every planet which gives you room to warp away into another safe area so you are always safe with NO risk (problem with PvP'ers). If you opted to not have a warp drive ready to go to travel then that's when the only risk a Anti-Pvp'er would have to take currently. Warp drives are the anti-pvp'er protectors, so long as they are prepared for it.

 

Now for the PVP'er catering :

-New Space (Currently the greyed out section on the map that is not open yet) when added would be the higher risk area. Planets, Space, Moons would all be unsafe. Perhaps one safe planet in "New Space" should exist. A hub similar to Alioth. This Hub will have a similar radius in order to warp to the higher risk planets, moons, etc. This will help prevent camping around the safe planet. An added soft touch for Anti-Pvper's. The other planets, moons, and so on would not provide this warping out bubble/radius for the Anti-PvPer's so risk will def be needed. However once they warp, the risk kicks in, so be prepared to protect yourself if you do not like PvP or prepare accordingly. This will cater more to the PvP'ers. You can't give everything to cater to non-pvp'ers or you will have a game that will not grow or stay successful.

-The current solar system caters to people who don't care for PvP with lower risk in current system. Risk will be needed in the "New Space" so they should prepare accordingly. Providing a safe planet in "New Space" would make them feel safer, while trying to visit these high risks areas.

-Warping. This is what makes people safe. However, this is the only safety net a non PvP'er would have in space. Other than use of guns to defend themselves. Which can be limited if you are a solo player (You need to enable solo players to use bigger guns from one seat). I do not find it fair as a solo player that I can't have equal PvP oppurtunities compared to someone is in a Duo or larger group. It's just not fair. I don't want to have to get up and switch seats to PvP to even have a slight chance. Even then you have to aim somewhat so it's just broken for Solo PvP'ers or even the Anti-PvP'ers solo players to protect themselves. Please re-do this NQ! (This is kind of a make or break type deal for players like me who are solo). Back to the warping. Do not create warp disruptors, unless there is a counter to them of equal nature... perhaps a % chance to block a warp from happening would keep it so that you can favor both PvP'ers and Anti-PvPers. Rather than a counter. However, the warping aspect may need more thought to please both sides of the spectrum here.

 

**Will edit/add on this later if I have more thoughts**

 

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pvp enable/disable toggle for each player with a 30 minute cooldown on each switch?  this way people could chose to do pvp or not but also couldn't just turn it off quickly to escape a fight they were losing or turn it on quickly to attack someone by surprise...  Idk,  just a thought.

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8 minutes ago, V0hayga said:

pvp enable/disable toggle for each player with a 30 minute cooldown on each switch?  this way people could chose to do pvp or not but also couldn't just turn it off quickly to escape a fight they were losing or turn it on quickly to attack someone by surprise...  Idk,  just a thought.

I never liked the idea of a toggle for PvP in any game and wouldn't want to see it in this game. However, I would consider this in the current solar system since it's already fairly safe as is. So people wouldn't have to stress about producing warp cells all the time. They could save them up for the "New Space" perhaps for potential safety nets, depending on how they do the warp blocking etc. I wouldn't want this until new space would open as well if it was to be considered.

 

I could not get behind this in the "New Space" I was mentioning though.

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The problem is most PvPers who are complaining don’t want a fare fight, when somebody comes hunting for them they run away. They want a fat trader who can’t even get within range to attack them.

 

if there was a big PvPer community it wouldn’t be a problem as they would have lots of other skilled pilots to fight against. Doesn’t seem to be what they want though. 

 

As for warp being the solution, yes god for established players, but really sucks for new players. Do we really want a game where if you are a new player you will be Insta-killed the second you leave the busy low resource safe zone and there is nothing you can do about it? That’s going to kill a lot of players interest on their first trip to space.

 

New systems not having warp beacons on the planets could be interesting, then you’d want to be rich or part of a org so you can go and fight your way to the safe radius, then set up a station and place a beacon. 

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23 minutes ago, CoyoteNZ said:

The problem is most PvPers who are complaining don’t want a fare fight, when somebody comes hunting for them they run away. They want a fat trader who can’t even get within range to attack them.

 

if there was a big PvPer community it wouldn’t be a problem as they would have lots of other skilled pilots to fight against. Doesn’t seem to be what they want though. 

 

As for warp being the solution, yes god for established players, but really sucks for new players. Do we really want a game where if you are a new player you will be Insta-killed the second you leave the busy low resource safe zone and there is nothing you can do about it? That’s going to kill a lot of players interest on their first trip to space.

 

New systems not having warp beacons on the planets could be interesting, then you’d want to be rich or part of a org so you can go and fight your way to the safe radius, then set up a station and place a beacon. 

1. I'm one of those PvP'ers currently. However, I'm not out just trying to hunt defenceless ships. I am simply looking for ANY ship because I can't find anyone to PvP to test things out. Warp drives make it so you can warp safe bubble to safe bubble. So that's a reason I'm not finding a lot of action. So when a PvP'er finally gets a target it's prob someone who isn't prepared and/or is new to the game. For me it would be a good learning lesson if I was that targeted player. The whole game is a learning curve. The current solar system caters to the Anti-Pvp'er as I said, once a player learns this he will know to be prepared next time. If they have a short fuse and throw a hissy fit and quit the game so be it, sorry. I came for the creativity of the game and awesome PvP gameplay. Not just one aspect over the other. I do see your point about having a fair fight with someone, but that's risk. Without risk its boring. We all mine and sit at our factories building things, when we die, we can replace things easy. You have basically infinte materials to replace things and blueprints to bring them back to life.

 

2. Your point with the fat trader who has loads of goods. This is why I mention that solo players need to be able to use ANY size gun from any seat so they can defend themselves. I believe there are a good amount of solo players who do not operate within larger groups or smaller groups. So that's killing part of the solo experience for me PvP Wise. Also would kill it for a solo miner or hauler, with a gun capable ship to defend themselves, but are limited to XS guns.

 

3. You mean not being able to warp to planets at all in the new space? In my statement, I was refering to the bubble around the planet which gives you a safe place to warp from. Each planet has this in the current system, allowing them to safely warp to another planet. The only planet that would have this bubble would be the  one safe planet in the "new space" higher risk pvp system that I was talking about. The other planets there wouldn't have this safe bubble area to warp from.

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22 hours ago, Guest ShibbyGuy said:

*This post supports Anti-Pvp'ers and PvP'ers with equal balance for all and not just favoring one side*

 

-Current Solar System remains the same with minor space traveling risks for those who don't care for PvP. It should be well known that you need warp drive to safely traverse the current solar system as well as have a radar equipped to protect yourself from being sniped. Un-prepared players are the victims here. The Safe Zones on every planet in the current solar system cater to the Anti-Pvper's which makes PvP harder to come by and is why PvP players want change. All players are protected at all times in the current solar system basically as long as they have a warp drive ready to go. You have a safe zone around every planet which gives you room to warp away into another safe area so you are always safe with NO risk (problem with PvP'ers). If you opted to not have a warp drive ready to go to travel then that's when the only risk a Anti-Pvp'er would have to take currently. Warp drives are the anti-pvp'er protectors, so long as they are prepared for it.

 

Now for the PVP'er catering :

-New Space (Currently the greyed out section on the map that is not open yet) when added would be the higher risk area. Planets, Space, Moons would all be unsafe. Perhaps one safe planet in "New Space" should exist. A hub similar to Alioth. This Hub will have a similar radius in order to warp to the higher risk planets, moons, etc. This will help prevent camping around the safe planet. An added soft touch for Anti-Pvper's. The other planets, moons, and so on would not provide this warping out bubble/radius for the Anti-PvPer's so risk will def be needed. However once they warp, the risk kicks in, so be prepared to protect yourself if you do not like PvP or prepare accordingly. This will cater more to the PvP'ers. You can't give everything to cater to non-pvp'ers or you will have a game that will not grow or stay successful.

-The current solar system caters to people who don't care for PvP with lower risk in current system. Risk will be needed in the "New Space" so they should prepare accordingly. Providing a safe planet in "New Space" would make them feel safer, while trying to visit these high risks areas.

-Warping. This is what makes people safe. However, this is the only safety net a non PvP'er would have in space. Other than use of guns to defend themselves. Which can be limited if you are a solo player (You need to enable solo players to use bigger guns from one seat). I do not find it fair as a solo player that I can't have equal PvP oppurtunities compared to someone is in a Duo or larger group. It's just not fair. I don't want to have to get up and switch seats to PvP to even have a slight chance. Even then you have to aim somewhat so it's just broken for Solo PvP'ers or even the Anti-PvP'ers solo players to protect themselves. Please re-do this NQ! (This is kind of a make or break type deal for players like me who are solo). Back to the warping. Do not create warp disruptors, unless there is a counter to them of equal nature... perhaps a % chance to block a warp from happening would keep it so that you can favor both PvP'ers and Anti-PvPers. Rather than a counter. However, the warping aspect may need more thought to please both sides of the spectrum here.

 

**Will edit/add on this later if I have more thoughts**

 

-Atmospheric PvP in "New Space" is where it should be implemented.

 

-Raiding peoples bases on Planets, Moons, Etc. would be in "New Space" as well.

 

(Both Atmospheric PvP and Base Raiding wouldn't apply to the current solar system so that Anti PvP'ers can have their lesser risk zone)

 

-"New Space" should have some kind of exotic ore and other things to attract people to come here to take risks.

 

This creates more of a "Dual Universe" for both types of players if you ask me. So that one side is not favored over the other... will continue to update this as i think of things.

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Adding a couple of points/ideas.

 

- The "New Space" would protect players in the current solar system from being raided, thus making them not quit the game (MarkeeDragon's Wife). 

Go to 26:00 :)

 

-Also in the video it mentions when base raiding you will have to work your way through the claim tiles to get to center of the city. I image that's where all the valueable's would be held. However, if it takes days to even penetrate what's the point? I like the fact you would kinda have to work your way through to get to that point, however with protection bubbles, what going to stop them from just throwing up a protection bubble last minute just before you reach the center tile to raid the goods? Protection Bubbles should have a health bar in which you can lower by shooting it with guns. Just as a protection bubble would cost a lot of precious ores to keep active, it should also cost a great amount of ammo as well to disable these protection bubbles. The last line of defence after this should be players coming flying out with their ships to battle out for a last stand kind of moment. If they win the defence and destroy the invading enemy, it would allow them prompt time to go back and repair the hexes that they busted through to get to center tile, they go back and repair everything back to full health before they can return to attack again. Repairs should not be allow during a raid. Placing Voxels should not be allowed during raid.  Enemy attackers that died should not be able to spawn within a close radius of the place that they are raiding. Instead a further home point. Remember NQ you can't favor just one side over the other. Anti-PvP'ers will already have their current solar system to live in mostly peacefully. As well as one safe planet in the "New space" for the Anti-PvP'ers that are feeling risky.

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On 10/21/2020 at 8:33 PM, CoyoteNZ said:

Do we really want a game where if you are a new player you will be Insta-killed the second you leave the busy low resource safe zone and there is nothing you can do about it?

God forbid new players will actually have to work towards a goal instead of getting an "I WIN" button on a silver platter. Because that's what warp drives are: 0 risk, 100 reward minus the price of warp cells. It's a complete joke. PvP flagging is an awful idea, instead let people enter stealth mode that lowers their radar signature as well as their radar radius so it can't get abused by gankers too easily.

Also warp drive needs to weigh at least 2000t to justify the utility it provides.

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18 hours ago, dumpeet said:

God forbid new players will actually have to work towards a goal instead of getting an "I WIN" button on a silver platter. Because that's what warp drives are: 0 risk, 100 reward minus the price of warp cells. It's a complete joke. PvP flagging is an awful idea, instead let people enter stealth mode that lowers their radar signature as well as their radar radius so it can't get abused by gankers too easily.

Also warp drive needs to weigh at least 2000t to justify the utility it provides.

I've been saying this for many years in many different games. I get why it's like that. But there is never a true balance between the two types of gamers that I have seen. I believe with my method, many will be satisfied. Either way I want the game to succeed and this how I would envision the future of PvP while maintaining a side of things that is safe for the people that don't want to PvP. We need a good PvP system to influence the player markets as well.

 

The Stealth Mode you mentioned seems like a fair idea if it was to be implemented in the "New Space". After warping from the "Safe Planet" that I mentioned in new space, you ship should enter a state of stealth after the warp (lowers radar signature and radius as you said), so that it can futher elude any campers that may be there after you warp. But it should'nt be so OP that it  breaks the PvP.

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NQ has already begun the process which changes their original pitch for DU as a single shard game with open PVP to a game where there is basically two games in one. There is the Alioth/Madis/Thades "shard" which pretty much is a creative mode world. There is no PVP, no need to consider other players. PVP players are pretty much left to play amongst themselves which completely bypasses the core concept of the game as it was laid out during kickstarter. I can see  the argument that the brash and pseudo aggressive talk form the PVP community about how they were ready to take on the carebears may have played into it but still, it's not what NQ promised and not what they sold the game as.

 

Not saying I'm surprised as it became quite clear over the past few weeks that this is what NQ was starting to lean towards anyway. I expect NQ gave in to the voices coming generally from the "former Landmark" community and the big "building/design" orgs who pretty much asked, if not begged for their own (building) game within the game and already convinced NQ that he existing worlds are "good enough" and there is/was no need to wipe their work  for the new tech. And they won out because NQ is very enamored by the pretty buildings and clever designs.

 

Their is some ppl, including in this thread who really do not get the concept and seem to think that the game would be seeing massive killing squads camping the safezone border on Alioth to kill anyone crossing. That's about as silly as they come if only because the border as it was originally planned would be bigger than most other games entire worlds and there would not be the option to kill at the spawn points. IMO ppl who want to play without risk and consequences should load up SE and stay in their own little world, not come into a rough and dangerous game world and instantly start complaining they are in a rough and dangerous world and do not want to be there.

 

These voices are in fact part of the problem that now lead to this situation and so, NQ basically split the community in half and told each side to go play in their own sandbox.

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59 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

NQ basically split the community in half and told each side to go play in their own sandbox.

May be umpopular thing to say (and i'm not aiming to anyone specificly), yet I think over time this shift also seriously degraded all "civilizaton building" game grand idea and even more -- organization building. To much of 0 risk "creative mode" removes all stimulus.

 

Ironicly i see much more social activity and complex systems/behaivors, interesting things, drama (some amount is good for health!), happen in PvP specialized (or inclined) orgs. While they have some of their own quirks, at least they produce particular projection into common space. 

 

Yet many "PvE" entities are exist in kinda of twisted "peaceful" torpor where several of guys just maintaining another mega-factory and hoarding stuff to make containers to hoard more stuff... sometimes they can build reasonably fancy ship. Their orgs obviously have ambitious names (and charter no one updated since creation), some members (who somewhere doing something on their own), some idea no one cares about any more... Such entities generaly produce nothing for wider world, their existence kinda... sterile? all this stuff people can be doing great alone or just with couple of friends. Not mean anything bad, I get people can have fun such way (i'm pluralist), yet still something feels inherintly wrong with this dynamics when it goes en masse.

 

Landmark lobby? I hugely respect some of guys from here for their dedication to game and supporting it unconditionaly in its darkest days, yet yeah... too much of their lobbying (even if unconcious) is obviously detrimental.

 

I minecrafter myself with some carebear blood, but this trend of devoiding game of any conflict is very dangerous. Because to be popular and played for years, game need to be flavourful in ways.

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6 hours ago, ShibbyGuy said:

The Stealth Mode you mentioned seems like a fair idea if it was to be implemented in the "New Space". After warping from the "Safe Planet" that I mentioned in new space, you ship should enter a state of stealth after the warp (lowers radar signature and radius as you said), so that it can futher elude any campers that may be there after you warp. But it should'nt be so OP that it  breaks the PvP.

You pretty much ignored what he was actually saying. Warping is way too low risk right now, completely eliminates PvP from the game. But instead you shove one thing into the other and say stealth should be applied ON TOP of the warp. That makes the 0,0001% risk of being caught a dead 0. I think its ridicilous with the idea of as much carebearery as we have right now, safe planets, new space, warp, stealth, it piles up to a game with a glorified arena space where parties have to orchestrate PvP battles on their own behalf, and even then the servers cant take a 50 ship battle as it stands right now.

 

Originally they said this. That there would only be ONE safe moon (sanctuary) as well as a X KM radius safezone around the arkship. Now the entirety of Alioth, Madis, Thades and all open space in between is safe. We are doubling down on the no-fun allowed and there are plenty of people who dont like it. And dont count PvP oriented orgs out as only engaging in PvP either. Right now bigger PvP orgs boast huge industries, bases and player numbers. Its not like they dont play the game the way others do too, it takes effort and resources to fund PvP since ships can be lost and resources evaporate into the void, meaning you have to constantly gather new ones.

 

IMO make warp tougher, go back to alioth+sanc only safezones. Dont care if Alioth as a whole has it, but including Madis and thades will prove to be a mistake, you can get everything you need to make space capable ships on Alioth anyways. And give us tech to pull people out of warp with some kind of trapping

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19 minutes ago, Zamarus said:

You pretty much ignored what he was actually saying. Warping is way too low risk right now, completely eliminates PvP from the game. But instead you shove one thing into the other and say stealth should be applied ON TOP of the warp. That makes the 0,0001% risk of being caught a dead 0. I think its ridicilous with the idea of as much carebearery as we have right now, safe planets, new space, warp, stealth, it piles up to a game with a glorified arena space where parties have to orchestrate PvP battles on their own behalf, and even then the servers cant take a 50 ship battle as it stands right now.

 

Originally they said this. That there would only be ONE safe moon (sanctuary) as well as a X KM radius safezone around the arkship. Now the entirety of Alioth, Madis, Thades and all open space in between is safe. We are doubling down on the no-fun allowed and there are plenty of people who dont like it. And dont count PvP oriented orgs out as only engaging in PvP either. Right now bigger PvP orgs boast huge industries, bases and player numbers. Its not like they dont play the game the way others do too, it takes effort and resources to fund PvP since ships can be lost and resources evaporate into the void, meaning you have to constantly gather new ones.

 

IMO make warp tougher, go back to alioth+sanc only safezones. Dont care if Alioth as a whole has it, but including Madis and thades will prove to be a mistake, you can get everything you need to make space capable ships on Alioth anyways. And give us tech to pull people out of warp with some kind of trapping

I didn't ignore what he said per sae, it sparked an idea for new space for campers that might be waiting there after you warp from the said safe planet in new space. Why would I want to warp to a planet, only to get locked on right away and fired on, with a cooldown on the warp to not escape. That stealth mechanic would at least be nice for a certain  duration after warp to prevent insta grief. Also you didn't read fully what I wrote either about the warping in new space. So please read again. New space would not have these "safe bubbles" around each planet making it full risk. So it eliminates the current 100% safe warping in the current solar system in the "new space". Thats why I suggested the stealth after warp mechanic, to kinda soft blow the camping after warp if that makes sense.

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5 minutes ago, ShibbyGuy said:

I didn't ignore what he said per sae, it sparked an idea for new space for campers that might be waiting there after you warp from the said safe planet in new space. Why would I want to warp to a planet, only to get locked on right away and fired on, with a cooldown on the warp to not escape. That stealth mechanic would at least be nice for a certain  duration after warp to prevent insta grief. Also you didn't read fully what I wrote either about the warping in new space. So please read again. New space would not have these "safe bubbles" around each planet making it 0 risk.

The whole thing about raiding and base protection is a topic discussed since old. The devs originally planned for claimed territories to have a timed shield triggered upon attack (territory warfare) that leaves a 24 or 48h window, whichever they said back then before you could actually touch anything inside, giving time for the defenders to plan their defense and father personnel. 

 

Anyways why shouldnt you be able to be camped out of warp? Warp locations are wide and you can approach from many angles. Easy solution is for people to not be lazy and warp the birds path between planets and actually offset their journey, trading travel time for safety. Also thats not really how it is right now, people are capable of warping DIRECTLY from safe space into safe space without any chance whatsoever of being fired upon. That you wouldnt want to warp into getting locked on is not an argument for why it should be risk-less to do a warp. And "insta-grief" is a weird way of saying PvP happened. People not enjoying being shot down doesnt magically make PvP risks griefing

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17 minutes ago, Zamarus said:

The whole thing about raiding and base protection is a topic discussed since old. The devs originally planned for claimed territories to have a timed shield triggered upon attack (territory warfare) that leaves a 24 or 48h window, whichever they said back then before you could actually touch anything inside, giving time for the defenders to plan their defense and father personnel. 

 

Anyways why shouldnt you be able to be camped out of warp? Warp locations are wide and you can approach from many angles. Easy solution is for people to not be lazy and warp the birds path between planets and actually offset their journey, trading travel time for safety. Also thats not really how it is right now, people are capable of warping DIRECTLY from safe space into safe space without any chance whatsoever of being fired upon. That you wouldnt want to warp into getting locked on is not an argument for why it should be risk-less to do a warp. And "insta-grief" is a weird way of saying PvP happened. People not enjoying being shot down doesnt magically make PvP risks griefing

 I would be perfectly fine without the stealth thing myself, I prefer full chaos believe it or not... however, I do try to vouch on both sides here to seek true balance and think of what people would complain about honestly. If I had it my way the current solar system would be full of chaos, but lets be real doing that would kill of a lot of players, and you want a game that supports all kinds of players with how they like to play. So it's tough. NQ has a lot of thinking and planning to do. I"m simply trying to make this game successful with my own personal thoughts and ideas. Maybe it will help them. With this thread it basically makes the current solar system a "Soft" verison of PvP(essentially a more of a creative solar system with some exploration ability with low risk PvP), then when you jump into "New Space" its all out chaos, with ONE safe planet there. No protection bubbles around planets. Only the Main hub. So you would warp form this safe planet for instance to an unprotected planet, with full atmopsheric pvp and so on when u arrive.

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2 hours ago, blazemonger said:

NQ has already begun the process which changes their original pitch for DU as a single shard game with open PVP to a game where there is basically two games in one. There is the Alioth/Madis/Thades "shard" which pretty much is a creative mode world. There is no PVP, no need to consider other players. PVP players are pretty much left to play amongst themselves which completely bypasses the core concept of the game as it was laid out during kickstarter. I can see  the argument that the brash and pseudo aggressive talk form the PVP community about how they were ready to take on the carebears may have played into it but still, it's not what NQ promised and not what they sold the game as.

 

Not saying I'm surprised as it became quite clear over the past few weeks that this is what NQ was starting to lean towards anyway. I expect NQ gave in to the voices coming generally from the "former Landmark" community and the big "building/design" orgs who pretty much asked, if not begged for their own (building) game within the game and already convinced NQ that he existing worlds are "good enough" and there is/was no need to wipe their work  for the new tech. And they won out because NQ is very enamored by the pretty buildings and clever designs.

 

Their is some ppl, including in this thread who really do not get the concept and seem to think that the game would be seeing massive killing squads camping the safezone border on Alioth to kill anyone crossing. That's about as silly as they come if only because the border as it was originally planned would be bigger than most other games entire worlds and there would not be the option to kill at the spawn points. IMO ppl who want to play without risk and consequences should load up SE and stay in their own little world, not come into a rough and dangerous game world and instantly start complaining they are in a rough and dangerous world and do not want to be there.

 

These voices are in fact part of the problem that now lead to this situation and so, NQ basically split the community in half and told each side to go play in their own sandbox.

Yeah I'm not 100% on NQ's plans, but this thread is about the same thing kinda of right? Safe-ish solar system for the Anti-PvPers and creative people with minor risks. Then an all out new space which is more hardcore with way more risks involved, in fact 100% risks minus the ONE safe planet there. Just about the two types of players here. Maybe the  people who are more creative or don't like PvP get bored one day, and say: "hey im ready to take some risks lets head over to the new space for all out pvp fun!" It's just a balancing act. This thread creates that dual universe... for both player types. Although personally as I said in another post, I prefer "full" chaos everywhere.

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1 minute ago, ShibbyGuy said:

 I would be perfectly fine without the stealth thing myself, I prefer full chaos believe it or not... however, I do try to vouch on both sides here to seek true balance and think of what people would complain about honestly. If I had it my way the current solar system would be full of chaos, but lets be real doing that would kill of a lot of players, and you want a game that supports all kinds of players with how they like to play. So it's tough. NQ has a lot of thinking and planning to do. I"m simply trying to make this game successful with my own personal thoughts and ideas. Maybe it will help them. With this thread it basically makes the current solar system a "Soft" verison of PvP, then when you jump into "New Space" its all out chaos, with ONE safe planet there. No protection bubbles around planets. Only the Main hub. So you would warp form this safe planet for instance to an unprotected planet, with full atmopsheric pvp and so on when u arrive.

Catering to both sides is not only difficult but in practise pretty impossible and non-organic. Its wagering between "do we force PvPers to look for scraps of battle" or "do we force carebears to learn how to play safe and build their own protected hubs". 

 

Imo theres nothing interactive with safezones completely blocking out any risk whatsoever. But on the other hand having people band together to protect common hubs and have player-made player-curated "safe-zones" that still run the risk of being infiltrated or sieged at some point I think is going to be valuable experience for all sides. People are lazy, want the easy way out. Losing inventory sucks but that doesnt mean the developers should hold their hands and prevent that from ever being a possibility. They originally called the beta stage of the roadmap "empires expand" but there's nothing imperial or expansive about everyone down to every single joe being able to hog territory with no risk. I pray for territory warfare to come soon.

 

A big problem also with keeping Madis and Thades safe is that it limits the options where territory warfare CAN happen. I cant be the only one who sees the problem with oversaturating the world with safety. See a LOT of people have settled on Madis and Thades compared to many remote planets. What this means once territory warfare is out is that ONLY the non-safe planets will be able to be attacked, that means that instead of PvP being spread out more evenly in the system there will be massive PvP pressure on certain planets since those are the only options. this will drive people out of those planets for sure and pack the safe planets to the brim with people trying to keep their assets out of harms way, but not by protecting it, hiding it, befriending the right people like in a organic universe but via the means of dev code. 

 

But thats not all, there's other serious problems with extensive safezoning. Already limited rarer resources will be depleted at a fast rate, many moons are already DRY of T3+ ore, its just a matter of time before the same happens with all planets, simply because people can without any risk other than their own incompetence flying their craft spam scans and strip the planets dry before any meaningful warfare comes around. Now theres ONE bright prospect I can find in this same issue. That is that once the safezone planets are mined dry (which will happen first) people are simply forced to venture to non-safe planets. Knowing NQ's recent actions, decisions and interviews I wouldnt put it past them to replenish ore in some way to let these same people stay within the safe borders forever. Wheres the risk&reward is my question. Normally taking bigger risks, IE flying to outer planets for rare ore would mean you will be able to find the resources to be ahead in tech compared to safezone dwellers, but once that happens people will complain that they dont have access to what PvPers have access to whilst also not wanting to engage in risk. 

 

Catering will not satisfy these kinds of people, they either get what they want and then ask for more time after time, or you force them to learn how to live with risks and avoid danger by themselves, the tools are there. Its not hard to route around, make friends, hire mercs, bribe PvPers to not attack you, or other means. But people will not use these tools or even think of them if they have an easier and lazier way of getting what they want.

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35 minutes ago, Zamarus said:

Catering to both sides is not only difficult but in practise pretty impossible and non-organic. Its wagering between "do we force PvPers to look for scraps of battle" or "do we force carebears to learn how to play safe and build their own protected hubs". 

 

Imo theres nothing interactive with safezones completely blocking out any risk whatsoever. But on the other hand having people band together to protect common hubs and have player-made player-curated "safe-zones" that still run the risk of being infiltrated or sieged at some point I think is going to be valuable experience for all sides. People are lazy, want the easy way out. Losing inventory sucks but that doesnt mean the developers should hold their hands and prevent that from ever being a possibility. They originally called the beta stage of the roadmap "empires expand" but there's nothing imperial or expansive about everyone down to every single joe being able to hog territory with no risk. I pray for territory warfare to come soon.

 

A big problem also with keeping Madis and Thades safe is that it limits the options where territory warfare CAN happen. I cant be the only one who sees the problem with oversaturating the world with safety. See a LOT of people have settled on Madis and Thades compared to many remote planets. What this means once territory warfare is out is that ONLY the non-safe planets will be able to be attacked, that means that instead of PvP being spread out more evenly in the system there will be massive PvP pressure on certain planets since those are the only options. this will drive people out of those planets for sure and pack the safe planets to the brim with people trying to keep their assets out of harms way, but not by protecting it, hiding it, befriending the right people like in a organic universe but via the means of dev code. 

 

But thats not all, there's other serious problems with extensive safezoning. Already limited rarer resources will be depleted at a fast rate, many moons are already DRY of T3+ ore, its just a matter of time before the same happens with all planets, simply because people can without any risk other than their own incompetence flying their craft spam scans and strip the planets dry before any meaningful warfare comes around. Now theres ONE bright prospect I can find in this same issue. That is that once the safezone planets are mined dry (which will happen first) people are simply forced to venture to non-safe planets. Knowing NQ's recent actions, decisions and interviews I wouldnt put it past them to replenish ore in some way to let these same people stay within the safe borders forever. Wheres the risk&reward is my question. Normally taking bigger risks, IE flying to outer planets for rare ore would mean you will be able to find the resources to be ahead in tech compared to safezone dwellers, but once that happens people will complain that they dont have access to what PvPers have access to whilst also not wanting to engage in risk. 

 

Catering will not satisfy these kinds of people, they either get what they want and then ask for more time after time, or you force them to learn how to live with risks and avoid danger by themselves, the tools are there. Its not hard to route around, make friends, hire mercs, bribe PvPers to not attack you, or other means. But people will not use these tools or even think of them if they have an easier and lazier way of getting what they want.

I do see that being a problem, people would just store their goods on the safe planets and never really risk anything except there ships in PvP and not only that I think it would prevent people from being brave and not even put a base on an unsafe planet, thus killing PvP Raiding. I like the pure chaos, but that doesn't mean I wouldnt be smart and just move my stuff on the safe planets haha. So yeah huge problem. Theortetically when the day for that patch happens, I see people all high-tailing it the safe planets with all their stuff... those planets would be packed. Your point with the ore are true, theres no risk to get these ores currently and will eventually deplete, however I thought I heard them say they would re-fill that one day. Maybe on Launch day? But def be some time before that, to see how everything pans out over the next course of some months with the economy.

 

I agree the catering will not satisfy everyone. In fact, mostly everything you just said. I wish it was more like that where u had to make friends, alliances, hire mercs etc. and everything wasn't just rainbows and kittens. I want the more hardcore game. I put this post because I'm not sure NQ can give us the satisfaction of this(really love this game, if it cant  offer how i see it being played ill just have to move on sadly, but such a great game dont want to)... so I try to make a universe with our kinds of players that we can have fun in. While maintaining those other softer core players...  Everything you make is replaceable in this game, loss is nothing to me.

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17 hours ago, Zamarus said:

Knowing NQ's recent actions, decisions and interviews I wouldnt put it past them to replenish ore in some way to let these same people stay within the safe borders forever.

I even know how NQ pull this off.

 

Once pressure form SZ-only people rise to uncomfortable degree, NQ will like hey! we wondorously decided to... regen SZ planets (after recently dropping this idea undrer pressure from same people)! And by this "sneakly" give fully regened resources to sufferers under pretext that this is just for planets to look better.

 

If we go even more conspiracy, I think at least partly NQ "holded in pocket" this regen of starting system to save its as major intervention option with plasauble deniability of true reason.

 

"Fulll release" is especialy good point for this.

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JC (founder) said in recent interview that Alioth, Hades, and Madis would remain safe and the rest of the surrounding planets  in the current solar system would be unsafe. Hopefully this means no safe bubbles for warping as well. Along with atmospheric PvP there. Raiding as well... the raiding however, I feel will be broken because  there will be plenty of safe spots to put a main base at so raiding is just kinda meh. Who's going to risk a base when you can have it tucked away nice and safe? Who's going to spend resources on protecting there base with protection bubbles and such? I could see people risking a small base/factory though, as long as they have their safe planet base they are still secure future wise if they get cleaned on unsafe planets. Once announced  get ready for herds of people coming to place down their base in a safe spot. May even want to consider and do it early before the rush.

 

-This would scratch out my whole idea to give ANTI-PVPERS a bigger global solar system to explore with less risks, but I am ok with this as well.

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How about make PvP slower. This way PvPers will actually be doing more than searching for ages, then a quick fight killing a defenceless trader. 

 

It also would mean that there is time to pull in reinforcements from an org, or to turn on a beacon saying I am under attack, please assist. People may come to help, more or different pirates may come to join in the battle.

 

Could be done by increasing hit points of ships, or reducing the damage of weapons.

 

If this idea doesn’t fly, how about having a ship have a cool down of ten minutes or something before it can be claimed.mduring that time it is broadcasting a distress signal so others can arrive to join in, or the owner has time to try and arrange a response. 

 

Would definitely increase the amount of PvP for those who say there isn’t enough. 

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An alternative would be to make PvP areas. Kind of how it is now, anyone interested in PvP goes to those areas for their combat fix.

You could still have your territory wars, if 2 Orgs have declared war on each other then anything goes anywhere, for those Orgs. Give them different coloured minimap blips and different titles for PvP kills etc to feed their epeen even in safe zones outside of Sanctuary.

Solo players can choose to take part in PvP but attacking someone makes them attack-able by the person/ Org they attacked for the next week/month.

Make pirates more of a class than a play style, Pirate core ships - Can attack anyone and can be attacked by anyone anywhere/anytime(attacking a pirate doesn't put you in war mode) but the ships have weaker defenses and a lower capped max speed, maybe slightly stronger weapons. (Risk vs Reward).

Later down the line, add cosmetic elements for ships or bases, blueprints, skins, consumable tokens that increase your talent point gain speed for a week or 2,  temporary buff items like a consumable boost kit for an engine to catch or get away from enemies in space or one time use shields for X hit-points. Make these sort of items only available in PvP zones.

Rare metals that maybe on asteroids could still be in PvP contested areas.

 

At least then anyone not interested in PvP still has the ability to generate income and still has a reason to play the game, keep making ships and parts for the PvP crowd, the PvP players can make their income from the rarer metals and items.

 

Give us some unique items to collect too. Proper uniques too, not WoW uniques or 'rares' that everyone has. UO style uniques.  Maybe a passing comet or stray asteroid that's only around for a short time as it passes through our system has some great looking item on it you can put on display at your base, or alien ship blueprint(one that can't be totally replicated with voxelmancy), PvP'ers can fight over those.

 

Just an opinion, if PvP is just going to be about Ore then it will get boring very quickly.

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Honestly I dont see the point in not having pvp outside of Alioth even in this solar system.

 

The first thing that comes to mind is there should be at the very lease some kind of Org everyone starts in as a means of mass defense against mega orgs who blocade starting planets, other planetary systems, or in future solar systems. There should be a public government Org that everyone who starts the game is part of. We have all been paying taxes to this shadow government without any sort of help in return already.

 

What I propose is NQ create a federation of public access to where there are actual gameplay mechanics to join the federation Industry, freight hauling, police, or military that controls this solar system. They should have superior tech that cannot be traded but helps out everyone within the federation if they get PvP'd to come to the rescue. It can be written into the game that there are either sensors or advanced AI that overrides the ships in pvp safe zones or planets this government controls where as open space is devoid of these systems so that pvp is allowed there.

 

I also think that even on these safe planets you should be able as an organization to declare war on another organization and flag all their territories, dynamic, and static cores for pvp until one side or another is destroyed. This should be allowed anywhere in the game including Alioth. It should cost a rediculous amount of credits to do so. But we need ways to clean up all the dead territories or to have a daily tax on all territories of like 5k credits to make sure that those territories are abandoned and can be claimed by actual active players.

 

The other thing I would suggest is that there be "anomalies" or rotating active war zone(s) where all of a sudden 1 moon or 1 planet in the solar system is suddenly not protected by the safe zone mechanics and if full on pvp everywhere. This will be necessary to test the future pvp everywhere solar systems.

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Aggressive PVP will kill this game
If you want to fly and shoot without sebsu and mind, play EVE onlita is a game for idiots who shoot everything that moves or stands.

so far there is no sense in this game.
And shooting at others is not an edifying sense of the game.

Owning a territory does nothing, so why fight for it?
There are less and less raw materials and the fuel will eventually run out. why fly Flying in the pursuit of resources is another form over content.

And you also want to add a gang of thieves who, instead of taking a busy job, will simply rob other players of their time and dreams.

 

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6 hours ago, Vazqez said:

Aggressive PVP will kill this game
If you want to fly and shoot without sebsu and mind, play EVE onlita is a game for idiots who shoot everything that moves or stands.

 

Yet eve is successful 

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