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GIJhen

How will you prevent people from getting harassed, trolled and griefed?

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One of the biggest turnoffs for mmorpg space games like eve online for me has been the constant harassment and infringement of other players while I am trying to enjoy the game.  I want to be able to mine asteroids explore and trade without the constant annoyance that some jerk will decide they will blow up my ship and destroy all that I tried to do just because they felt like it? So before me and my friends decide to get this game and invest our time, please explain how you will prevent people from bothering players who do not want to be bothered?

 

 

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You can't. Welcome to a sandbox game.

If you want to mine in the equivalent of Detroit at night and in space, you are out of luck.

If you want to mine in a region that your faction doesn't police, you are out of luck.

If you want to mine in a faction's main moon of exporting minerals and you are not a member of that faction, you ASKED for it, you are stealing from them and they should drop every rocket they can on your ship.

You and your friends should realise this is not Second Life in Space. You go for mining, better set up duties for each other

One guy runs the mining ship, four others are bodyguards on their ships. That's how it's done in sandbox games. Also, if you are not PvPers or, more likely, Second Life players, you may want to mine in asteroid rings in systems your faction polices frequently and they can guard you in a moment's notice if someojne goes to troll you.

You can't have a sandbox MMORPG and then ask for no interaction. 

If there are no griefers, then mercenaries paid to protect you have no jobs.

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This will be a relatively open game, it seems.

 

Meaning that once you venture out to certain places, there is always an abstract risk - like being run over as you try to cross the street somewhere. Chance is low, but can happen.

 

I think players should actually be aware of the potential risk - whether it is hostile flora, fauna or players attacking, plan for this occasion. And also realize that you are not always at risk for being attacked. People will settle down somewhere, perhaps create actual pacified zones or generally not always shoot at each other as they meet somewhere.

 

My point being: If you want your "bubble", create it somewhere. You should not be bothered that much - if you do, you move elsewhere or come back later.

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This will be a relatively open game, it seems.

 

Meaning that once you venture out to certain places, there is always an abstract risk - like being run over as you try to cross the street somewhere. Chance is low, but can happen.

 

I think players should actually be aware of the potential risk - whether it is hostile flora, fauna or players attacking, plan for this occasion. And also realize that you are not always at risk for being attacked. People will settle down somewhere, perhaps create actual pacified zones or generally not always shoot at each other as they meet somewhere.

 

My point being: If you want your "bubble", create it somewhere. You should not be bothered that much - if you do, you move elsewhere or come back later.

Well, yeah, that's the jist of it really People can't expect to venture into areas that have NO security forces by any factions and expect it to be a good idea.

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so this is just another eve online then, a pvp sandbox that will drive away people who don't like to be griefed

nah, not really. IF you stay behind the borders, you can still trade within the faction or take hauler jobs, or mine asteroids and stuff You just can't expect to go into the dark territories between factions AKA, A WARZONE and expect to be fine.

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I have the impression (don't get me wrong or correct me if I'm wrong) that an abstract fear may be a driving factor for you at this time - despite a lot of gameplay or technical terms not set in stone yet and for some time.

 

If you have your doubts, continue to monitor the game as more is developed and decide later on, I guess. Griefing is relative, I guess, given the single shard. I'd rather speak about "potential PVP encounters" or similar - again, you can lower the risks or avoid problems. Or find shelter with the right people or in the right places.

 

I'd say this certain potential or abstract risk is what drives people here - creating something with some challenges, something that will possibly last for quite a time physically or in the minds of people - rather than having a building simulator with no obstacles whatsoever. To give an abstract counter-example anyway.

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Neutral zones where PVP isn't allowed, Not ready for PVP? simply head into these areas until you are or indefinitely.

Yeah, enroll as a private in an army to learn the in-game ropes. Then, when you are ready, go have some drop-pod action until you get the grip of the combat

 

 

Same goes for ships You start low, you excel at the field, you get promoted in the faction

 

 

People want to play a game with only player-driven story and economy, well, say goodbye to arbitrary reputation grinding for NPCs, you will have the chance to live the most immersive storyline by having to deal with other players And guess what, some of those players are legit pains to deal with

 

 

 

Just because a person doesn't gank you time and time again, it doesn;t mean that person is not a griefe or a troll A griefer can be your guild leader who's an abusive son of a dumpster.

 

 

Would the OP of the thread want for the Devs to be their babysitter?

 

 

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I think the risk is part of the game. If there is no risk you get everything done in a couple of months and its game over. My biggest concern is the freedom this game allows will lead to exploiting and breaking the game. When you are harassed by exploiting pirates that will drive people away from the game real fast.

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I think the risk is part of the game. If there is no risk you get everything done in a couple of months and its game over. My biggest concern is the freedom this game allows will lead to exploiting and breaking the game. When you are harassed by exploiting pirates that will drive people away from the game real fast.

The Space Knights are present in any sandbox game as this For every villain, there's a carebear hero. They will be there to patrol the dangerous routes, just not all of them. :V

 

Again, stay in safe areas, where pirates can't reach. Pirates operate in the high seas after all, not in your faction's main turf, where they could be blow up to bits and pieces real fast. Internal trading will be a thing, so chill :P

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To quote the splash page:

 

WHAT IS DUAL UNIVERSE?

Dual Universe is a sandbox first-person MMORPG set within a seamless Sci-Fi universe made of millions of planets. The world is entirely editable, and the game focuses on massive scale emergent gameplay based around exploration, voxel building, trade, politics and warfare.

 

My read on this is that it is completely possible to play the game without PvP action, even in PvP zones. All it requires is that a player choose not to attack another player. That is the freedom of choice. That also means that it is possible for a player to venture into PvP territory and not have another player attack them. It doesn't mean that it is what would happen, only that it is possible. 

 

The fact that the devs are designing different ways to make an area a safe zone without it starting as such indicates they realize there will be a need for new safe zones, but making safe-zones means taking away from PvP territory which isn't fair to PvP players, but which does make sense as civilizations go in the real world. 

 

If you want to stay safe, the only way is not to venture into PvP territory. If we decide to do so, that is the risk we take as part of the game. But, being attacked isn't a guarantee.

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so this is just another eve online then, a pvp sandbox that will drive away people who don't like to be griefed

 

Yeah except ...

 

Unlike Eve, this universe is infinite ... there will be "safe" areas but IDK how many other than an area (I believe like 30km) around the starting Arkship. The gates are built by players, probes are needed to be sent to unexplored area before a gate can be built.  You could travel by a probe or probes somewhere and not build a gate network so others can't follow .... but they may end up exploring that area sometime after of course. 

 

Oh and ahhh ... you can build anything, and even build a base underground or whatever. 

 

So yeah like Eve .... but not really.

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So, a lot of people are talking about the risk / reward nature of the game and interactions with other players, but I want to draw more on the Eve comparison.

 

I think there's one big difference, at least from what I've been able to read so far about this game, and that is how the safe zones work. In Eve, there are no true safe zones. There are areas where you are significantly less likely to be attacked (High sec), but anyone who has seen freighter ganks or been around for Burn Jita or Hulkaggedon knows that even high sec is not truly safe.

 

To me, this is the big thing about even that leads to people hating the game and keeps the playerbase relatively smaller than it could be. Beginners especially, need a chance to get to know the game in a low risk area. Some people prefer to play in it indefinitely. DU will have areas like this where pvp is disabled entirely. We'll see how big they are and how frequent they are, but we do know at least that they will exist, and think that this is critical for allowing people to enjoy the game without being griefed.

 

That said... Once you leave these safe areas, nothing is safe, and you are putting yourself at risk. There are things you can do to mitigate the risk at this point (join an organization, go to less populated areas, etc), but if you want the best stuff, you're going to be running the risk of pirates or other people coming after you. Note, that I don't consider this griefing or trolling anymore, because at this point, they are killing you for good reason. You are in a zone that allows it, they want combat, and they probably want the stuff you've been mining too.

 

So frankly, I don't think 'griefing' in the traditional sense will be a big problem here, and I think that new players will have plenty of opportunity to get used to the game before they expose themselves to the risks of the wild.

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I've never played EVE but I've read/heard lots about it and seen many vids and I concluded it's not for me. So if DU will be too close to EVE it won't be for me either. No problem there, to each his own game.

 

I understand the nature of an MMO/sandbox risk/reward etc. but I don't understand when trolling/griefing/harassing (and most important ganking) is not only allowed but encouraged, even if indirectly. I know those things can't be totally eradicated but at least they can be dampened. And to leave the player community to self-regulate is madness imo, as zergs will prevail every time.

I'm a casual player and play for fun. Fun! I encounter enough jerks in RL and in my job, and to have them in  my games as well... no thanks.

 

I will still follow DU development and see how it evolves.

It's a great project, but like some will be driven away by the subscription model I will be driven away should the game play be too loose.

I know, I know... I go play the Sims now... ^_^

Thanks for opening the discussion GIJhen. This very subject was on my mind as well.

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+1

 

There has to be a limit on what is considered accpetable gameplay behaviour.

Well, it's really simple. The punishment will come after the "crime". In other words, if a group of players decides to grief a faction's outpost, that faction will send out its fleet and level the griefers' crib. It's really that simple :P

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Griefers I can deal with, when it get's offensive or abusive then you have to draw the line.

Well, ignore them if they whisper to you. If you don't want your house to be taken down, you need to build in an arkified area where nobody can touch your stuff. If you are harrassed in a city run by a faction, call up the nearest administrator of the zone and report the issue and that guy can be kicked off the territory :P

 

Those are solutions. There's a reason there are Territory Claim Units in the game. A Mayor or Governor should have the power to exile people who are annoying.

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MMM,  power to exile a player from a territory, thats a good idea. Piss too many players off and you get blacklisted by several Orgs and can't go to them either. Yes in a way that would relieve some of the stress.  Still...

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MMM,  power to exile a player from a territory, thats a good idea. Piss too many players off and you get blacklisted by several Orgs and can't go to them either. Yes in a way that would relieve some of the stress.  Still...

Well, you can't do anything in open space. It's like how nations in the world can't police the high seas. Sure, you can police a little off your coast as the Coast Guard or something, but you can't police international waters. That's also a part of the sandbox game. Players ned to police those areas. 

 

 

 

In WoW, I could do a bubbledrop on a rogue as a paladin and nuke them out of existence. Nobody could stop me, I could do that every two minutes and nobody could stop me. Was it harrassing? Yes, but then again, those rogues on my server would gank me the meoment I went to mine a vein. If in WoW that was acceptable.

 

 

 

What the admins in WoW found not acceptable, was me parking my mammoth in front of the Dalaran fountain and going into the barber shop, having my time changing my hairstyle. In DUAL, those admins that gave me a week's worth of ban off the game, would be players banning me off their city's arkified zone until Kingdom Cometh.

 

 

 

But what I wasn't ban for, is blocking the entrance to Uldar with some thirty-nine other paladins, just so we can have a lightshow going as of PvP. The Devs in WoW, couldn't prevent me from doing that, as it was a game mechanic, World PvP and my objective, was to not allow PvErs to get in the raid instance.

 

 

 

You can't ask for a sandbox with partitions in the box like that. WoW was a theme park MMO and had more freedoms than the model of sandbox you are suggesting. And WoW was stale as flak by 2012. Do Arena, get gear, duel peole, spam "git gud" and you did the same thing over and over again. In DUAL, if yo uget bored as a trader, you can try to become a smuggler, as it may be the same thing, but in reality, a smuggler doesn't pay taxes, therefore, they are illegal traders, and by international law, they commit piracy, as piracy is identified any illegal act taking place in open waters.

 

 

 

You are asking for pirates to not exist, which, would make the game stale, predictable and boring, like WoW ended up with thier Looking for Raid functions and Instanced PvP only.

 

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You keep comparing it to some gameplay, there is a difference, I don't want to exclude any play style.  But what your saying is basically the ToS for this game will be blank?

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You keep comparing it to some gameplay, there is a difference, I don't want to exclude any play style.  But what your saying is basically the ToS for this game will be blank?

Termination on Sight? Yes, it will be blank at first. There's no Horde Vs Alliance in the game. People build their factions, they don't start in one. A faction's attitude is what earns them respect or infamy and in the end, ToS status : Cercei's Wine..

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