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9 hours ago, Hades said:

Not sure why there has to be a switch, if there's no one guarding the gate an adversary can just toggle the switch themselves.

 

Anyway, these things are a loooong way off.  

RDMS. No they can't. Unless they set off timer for protective bubble, wait 24-48h to let defenders wake up, then attack the gate.

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3 hours ago, CalenLoki said:

RDMS. No they can't. Unless they set off timer for protective bubble, wait 24-48h to let defenders wake up, then attack the gate.

AFAIK gates don’t automatically come with shield protection.  As for RDMS, I hope they don’t apply to gates... that’s “too easy”.  Perhaps they’ve already discussed this and I missed it, but I don’t think so.  You’re stating all these things as facts, which I don’t think they are at this point.  But I’ve been known to miss stuff before haha, lots out there.  Correct me if I’m wrong :)

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My apologise for the tone. Those are of course my assumptions.

 

But they are based on logic: Players (orgs) can construct gates. They'll be probably static. Any static construct is subject to RDMS by the owner, and can be equipped with shields.

 

Unless they make, for some reason, special exception just for constructs that contain gates. Which would make absolutely no sense - they require huge effort to build, and such exception would basically make them neutral. Even if they add such rule, it could be easily avoided by building separate construct (protected by RDMS and shields) that physically block access to the gate.

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I personally think gates should be dynamic.  You should be able to make a gate, and move it to your desired location.

 

You should even be able to switch the gate to be linked with another area... as long as there are limitations in place.  Maybe a 1:5 (connect to) and 5:1 (connect from).  Of course, by nature every one of the 5 locations would be connected with each other.  So you could have gates A-E that are connected to 1-5... however 1-5 couldn’t be connected to A B C D But not E, and F.  5 might be a bit much, perhaps 2-3 locations.

 

Perhaps that would require too much cooperation among gate owners.

 

However, the jumps themselves would have to be reprogrammed after linking from A to 2 to something like A to 5.

 

This would be a pretty dynamic system where you need a knowledgeable member about routes and programming jumps.

 

I’m sure there’s a wholly better system that would diverge away from the “move through hoop” “exit on other side”.  But this is what I could come up with ;)

 

Gates shouldn’t be something you lay down, and forget about because it’s safe and you have entire control over it.

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15 minutes ago, Omfgreenhair said:

>JC toying with Gravity Generators.

No JC! Don't do it!

>Looks over at Keen Software

This is all your fault!

I think gravity generators could be cool, haha.  Can you imagine coasting, when all the sudden your ship veers off?  Could be a nice way to manipulate your attacks and whatnot.

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19 minutes ago, Hades said:

I think gravity generators could be cool, haha.  Can you imagine coasting, when all the sudden your ship veers off?  Could be a nice way to manipulate your attacks and whatnot.

pssst, hey, Hades. C'mhere! Go stand on this platform. Just keep standing there, alright? What? Why did I build four tall pillars of upside down gravity generators? Don't ask such silly questions, just keep standing there while I flip this big red switch from a safe distance.

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1 hour ago, Hades said:

Gates shouldn’t be something you lay down, and forget about because it’s safe and you have entire control over it.

I think nobody ever said they gonna be safe in any way. They are construct, which can be captured or destroyed by anyone who can beat you in battle. PvP battle, with live players on both sides. Not some 6am PvE raid.

 

Making them dynamic.... I think that'd make them too easy to protect, as you could just take them with your main fleet, or anchor at your main base.

 

Making them connect with multiple gates. IMO that would make expanding network too plain and cheap. I'd rather have to create transfer hubs with multiple gates, and less important hubs with just one.

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1 hour ago, Omfgreenhair said:

pssst, hey, Hades. C'mhere! Go stand on this platform. Just keep standing there, alright? What? Why did I build four tall pillars of upside down gravity generators? Don't ask such silly questions, just keep standing there while I flip this big red switch from a safe distance.

Bahahaha.  But pull out a gun and start shooting them, call for help, etc.  I think NQ also just recently commented on players being "locked" in a safezone area due to another player's build, they'd have an option to teleport to the arkship or something.  I'll see if I can go find it, I literally just read through it today :/

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21 hours ago, Hades said:

Not sure why there has to be a switch, if there's no one guarding the gate an adversary can just toggle the switch themselves.  

1

My thoughts...

 

I also believe that gates should be dynamic. It makes the gates more...... dynamic.

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or.... build a ship, that is a gate, use it to do the first and only warp to the probe, remove the dynamic anchor and put in a static one and link ship/gate to it. Start up the gate and get instant access to the new system ;)

 

Feel free to use my idea ;)

 

Cheers

 

 

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Seems like important considerations for a travel system would be force projection, how markets are distributed and how political boundaries are pursued.  

 

It would be pretty spiffy to dock a ship designed only for operating as the scifi equivalent of a coastal cruiser in an Heighliner or a carrier in order to be transported a qualitatively significant distance.

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If gates are dynamic structures, then you could use them offensively. You could effectively snatch or steal the ships of other people by throwing the gates at them.

 

Of course, then the question is how is momentum conserved through a gate? If the gate is moving, does the ship on the other end acquire the relative velocity upon exit? If so, you could also forcibly crash opponents ships into planets or each other.

 

Ultimately, gates need sizes, ranges, limitations, and variations. If any gate can connect to any other gate, the whole universe becomes point-to-point, limiting interesting interactions (namely, plotting courses and avoiding traps and events).

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I kind of expect the implementation in DU to be much like jump portals in EVE.

 

You provide an anchor end point at the destination which allows the gate or portal (which can be generated by a static or dynamic construct)  to open a phased subspace path from there to the anchor where the anchor can also be either dynamic or static. To balance this I think the point you arrive at should be random within a range anywhere between 0.25 and 1 SU from the anchor.

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46 minutes ago, erichconvair said:

JC explained the gates system should be something like you described in one of those 2016 interviews with gamers, notably one Eve youtuber.

 

 

 

There was No mention of a random drop out though, but stargates are planned to link only to another one and not it's no dial up like it's done in "Stargate"

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10 hours ago, AzureSkye said:

If gates are dynamic structures, then you could use them offensively. You could effectively snatch or steal the ships of other people by throwing the gates at them.

 

Of course, then the question is how is momentum conserved through a gate? If the gate is moving, does the ship on the other end acquire the relative velocity upon exit? If so, you could also forcibly crash opponents ships into planets or each other.

 

Ultimately, gates need sizes, ranges, limitations, and variations. If any gate can connect to any other gate, the whole universe becomes point-to-point, limiting interesting interactions (namely, plotting courses and avoiding traps and events).

For some reason I have an irrational preference for static gates. Once made that's it's anchor point there. Whatever the gate is doing to create a bubble of anti-matter or whatnot (same thing?) the training of that (on quantum entanglement) I'd have thought would expend on forming one direction and one direction only. I like the idea of UNI-DIRECTION warp gates too, ie a tunnel is one-direction only not 2-way.

 

Idk why, just feels right. Maybe it's wrong!

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I would think if you or your organization has a warp gate but don't want just any other organization or person to use it you could cut the power source off / security code or simple enough just like a building or cockpit use the right , duties and management system to keep others from using the gates ability with out your permission !

 

Personally I am happy the gates will be liked going from point A to point B and back rather than a dial up system which would be almost impossible to defend seeing  that enemies could come from any point in the galaxy and at the same time provide they have cracked or stolen your code !

 

I don't really see a problem with one way warp probes ? Probe sends message it found new system then you find a place you want to build warp gate after you build gate A , you make sure you have enough supplies to build gate B and use the Probes warp ability. Once you get to the new solar system you find a place to put gate B. Activate system and connect gate point A to gate point B. Its not confirmed and things are subjected to change but I think it will be that simple or close to it?

 

I hope gates are static structure because something moving and warping things inside of it not to mention the speed and direction its moving could end up with some jacked up physics not to mention putting unneeded stresses on the server!

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5 hours ago, GunDeva said:

I would think if you or your organization has a warp gate but don't want just any other organization or person to use it you could cut the power source off / security code or simple enough just like a building or cockpit use the right , duties and management system to keep others from using the gates ability with out your permission !

 

Personally I am happy the gates will be liked going from point A to point B and back rather than a dial up system which would be almost impossible to defend seeing  that enemies could come from any point in the galaxy and at the same time provide they have cracked or stolen your code !

 

I don't really see a problem with one way warp probes ? Probe sends message it found new system then you find a place you want to build warp gate after you build gate A , you make sure you have enough supplies to build gate B and use the Probes warp ability. Once you get to the new solar system you find a place to put gate B. Activate system and connect gate point A to gate point B. Its not confirmed and things are subjected to change but I think it will be that simple or close to it?

 

I hope gates are static structure because something moving and warping things inside of it not to mention the speed and direction its moving could end up with some jacked up physics not to mention putting unneeded stresses on the server!

Yeah agree, there's some variables here that need careful attention:-

 

1. Warp Gates: Distance range of?

2. Expense

3. Security code for use of

4. Static structures (my preference)

5. uni or dual way use I guess A-> and <-B sorta amounts to the same thing.

6. The quantum theory behind such devices !

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1 hour ago, MookMcMook said:

2. Expense

Seeing how we can build modular constructs, gates could be made in the same way. 

 

To create warp gate, you need an ring of connected warp modules. They connect only within 180 degree on x axis and 10 degree on y axis, with 5m range.

Thus price would be dynamic: It may be as low as  3 modules, if you want to fly small fighter. Or as big as 20 modules for sending battleship.

 

But whatever system is in use, it shouldn't ever be cheaper to use than flying manually. Even excluding initial building cost. Especially at short range. Otherwise at some point piracy would be impossible, because freighters would just jump between safe points. And by cheaper I mean time (it's the only currency): mining for fuel+time to fly should be less than mining for fuel to power the jump. So it's more for ferrying passengers, super-valuable cargo or surprise battle fleet, not for everyday use.

 

Or maybe make minimal distance you can set up two gates? Not closer than interplanetary. And no closer than X from the planet.

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3 hours ago, CalenLoki said:

But whatever system is in use, it shouldn't ever be cheaper to use than flying manually. Even excluding initial building cost. Especially at short range. Otherwise at some point piracy would be impossible, because freighters would just jump between safe points. And by cheaper I mean time (it's the only currency): mining for fuel+time to fly should be less than mining for fuel to power the jump. So it's more for ferrying passengers, super-valuable cargo or surprise battle fleet, not for everyday use.

 

Or maybe make minimal distance you can set up two gates? Not closer than interplanetary. And no closer than X from the planet.

On the piracy point: with a max speed limit, in route piracy is already impossible. You will never be able to catch up to a freighter going all out. 

 

However, I do agree that there should probably be limits on intrasystem gates. If gates are unlimited, you'd be able to just build gates directly from your base to your Sanctuary. 

 

Here's a crazy idea: gate stability is directly related to length. With longer routes cheaper, it'd make mapping and travel a bit difficult, but it'd make it interesting! 

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6 hours ago, CalenLoki said:

 

Seeing how we can build modular constructs, gates could be made in the same way. 

 

To create warp gate, you need an ring of connected warp modules. They connect only within 180 degree on x axis and 10 degree on y axis, with 5m range.

Thus price would be dynamic: It may be as low as  3 modules, if you want to fly small fighter. Or as big as 20 modules for sending battleship.

 

But whatever system is in use, it shouldn't ever be cheaper to use than flying manually. Even excluding initial building cost. Especially at short range. Otherwise at some point piracy would be impossible, because freighters would just jump between safe points. And by cheaper I mean time (it's the only currency): mining for fuel+time to fly should be less than mining for fuel to power the jump. So it's more for ferrying passengers, super-valuable cargo or surprise battle fleet, not for everyday use.

 

Or maybe make minimal distance you can set up two gates? Not closer than interplanetary. And no closer than X from the planet.

Some interesting further information to consider here.

 

1. Modular Size vs Distance and/or ship size vs Cost of Warpgates to construct.

2. Opportunity Cost (time) Idk I assume it's simply too dang far eg weeks real time alternative is no alternative.

3. Probably though: WarpGate use for Inter-Solarsystem travel = the only economic use to build a warpgate in the first place. eg JC comment these mega structures are prodigious projects.

4. Interplanetary distance won't be warpgates (due to cost): They'll be some sort of larger engine hyper-speed?? I'm not sure what is happening here??

 

edit: @CalenLoki I like your avatar, is there a story behind it?

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4 hours ago, AzureSkye said:

On the piracy point: with a max speed limit, in route piracy is already impossible. You will never be able to catch up to a freighter going all out. 

 

However, I do agree that there should probably be limits on intrasystem gates. If gates are unlimited, you'd be able to just build gates directly from your base to your Sanctuary. 

 

Here's a crazy idea: gate stability is directly related to length. With longer routes cheaper, it'd make mapping and travel a bit difficult, but it'd make it interesting! 

It depends on how they plan to make max speed limit. It could be tied to square root of (thrusts divided by mass), so kind of pseudo-space-drag system. Then reaching top speed will depend on how much you want to spend on propulsion and fuel (sacrificing cargo capacity and range).

Thus dedicated pirate ship would be super-fast, quite armed, but not really armoured. And mass cargo transport would be slow and bulky. And courier ship for most valuable cargo fast and armoured, but without any weapons.

 

I though about inverting cost based on distance, but it would make whole universe feel small. I'd rather see players do several jumps to go across galaxy. Maybe something like this:

 

3 hours ago, MookMcMook said:

Some interesting further information to consider here.

 

1. Modular Size vs Distance and/or ship size vs Cost of Warpgates to construct.

2. Opportunity Cost (time) Idk I assume it's simply too dang far eg weeks real time alternative is no alternative.

3. Probably though: WarpGate use for Inter-Solarsystem travel = the only economic use to build a warpgate in the first place. eg JC comment these mega structures are prodigious projects.

4. Interplanetary distance won't be warpgates (due to cost): They'll be some sort of larger engine hyper-speed?? I'm not sure what is happening here??

 

edit: @CalenLoki I like your avatar, is there a story behind it?

1. IMO distance should't affect building price. Regarding ship size - what fits can fly. You pay for perimeter length (each module increasing it by 5m, modlue price is constant). So the bigger the more expensive, but also more economical.

2. There should be some "most economical distance" (as seen in the graph). To avoid both short range jumps and travelling whole galaxy in one jump. That together with inability to make gates too close to planets keep piracy viable. Thus they wouldn't need to be so prohibitively expensive.

And again it's cost per module, thus you get best results by sending huge, cigar-like ships that fit just right into the gate.

 

PS. I've been using lone tree as my avatar for years, and that's just one nice version of Yggdrasil I found.

Jump price.jpg

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