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Im pretty sure this has been talked about before but I couldn't find it but I just have one question: Since the economy is totally controlled by the players could anything like the Crisis of 2008 or the the Great depression happen? Not for the same exact reasons of course but could something like it happen on an intergalactic scale?

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7 minutes ago, Immortal Prospect said:

Im pretty sure this has been talked about before but I couldn't find it but I just have one question: Since the economy is totally controlled by the players could anything like the Crisis of 2008 or the the Great depression happen? Not for the same exact reasons of course but could something like it happen on an intergalactic scale?

Sure, see eve's history.

People manipulate the market to get an edge, kill miners/haulers over weeks with a massive fleet thus driving prices of ships and goods up, hoard thousands of units of rare materials to drive prices up, throw thousands of units of rare items on the market to drive prices down and so on.

 

Will this happen in DU too?

Ofc

 

Will it be on an intergalactic scale?

Maybe. Depends on the mechanics

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I'm definitely betting on that some people will dedicate a lot of time to reading the market changes, tracking supply and investing in rare materials. They would also want to keep the supply low so if a new vein of that rare mineral is found it might be in someone's interest to blow it up. Some shenanigans may result in a severe lack of a certain reagent for lets say a popular engine. Things like this could cause market collapses. Maybe not on galactic scale since chances are that some people supply themselves completely. But the shenanigans can indeed reach large scales either way. 

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The crisis of 2008 was caused by cheap money / credit loaned to subprime customers and the worldwide distribution of derivatives. So I don't think we will have anything like the 2008-crisis in DU. Unless we have a player-run banking and financial system in DU with credit / loaning, shares and derivatives of some sort. Or leveraged speculation on credit of some sort.

Most ressources in DU will be mined/created and then consumed for construction or as fuel. So there will be the lack of and oversupply/inflation of ressources and market crisis/collapse, speculation and all that what Lethys and Zamarus described for sure.

 

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On 1/31/2018 at 10:11 AM, Costanius said:

The crisis of 2008 was caused by cheap money / credit loaned to subprime customers and the worldwide distribution of derivatives. So I don't think we will have anything like the 2008-crisis in DU. Unless we have a player-run banking and financial system in DU with credit / loaning, shares and derivatives of some sort. Or leveraged speculation on credit of some sort.

Most ressources in DU will be mined/created and then consumed for construction or as fuel. So there will be the lack of and oversupply/inflation of ressources and market crisis/collapse, speculation and all that what Lethys and Zamarus described for sure.

 

I agree. The most probable cause for a depression will be that some kind of resource that supports a large amount of players suddenly becomes to cheap for the players to live off it or something like that because of a massive mining project, and then the owner of the mining project does not inject his money into the economy. This is highly unlikely but it could happen.

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It will happen, the more people come to play the more materials will be on the market, it will be just a wait before something crashes. 

It will be so much fun seeing this develop.

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In my view, an economic of financial crisis or depresion in DU may ocurr as long as there are people interested on such thing and they make it to happen through any given mean, like it happens in "real world". 

 

The best part is that in DU, organizations of well-intended people can do much more self management, walking towards a true self-sufficiency, if they really plan it well (and better if between affine organizations they support each other).

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I have no doubt that there will be some serious instances of market-manipulation in DU.

 

People have had 15 years of practice doing it in EVE, after all.

 

But in DU, it may be a bit more tricky than it is in EVE, because any resource stockpiles will have to be kept in physical storage somewhere in the game world.

 

In EVE, you can sit in a station in Jita and buy millions of tons of ore on the market, it is automatically transferred to your hangar without ever entering the game world, and nobody ever knows that you've bought it, so you can operate with complete anonimity. When conditions are favourable, you can dump that massive stockpile onto the market again with the click of a button. The goods are never at risk, as long as you don't remove them from the station, and nobody has the slightest clue what your hangar contains, or how much of it. You don't even need to own a single ship to play the market in Jita.

 

If my understanding of DU's mechanics is correct, then anything bought at a market terminal will have to be collected from a dispenser attached to that market terminal. Those goods will then have to be transported to a container that you own, or kept onboard your ship. Presumably there will be some time limit on the collection, otherwise people will just use the dispensers as infinite "meta-storage".

 

People may not know what you're collecting, but they will notice if somebody is a regular "collector", but doesn't ever appear to be selling anything...

 

Those kinds of complications could make market manipulation a whole lot trickier in DU than it is in EVE.

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I love the concept of  a thriving economy, especially one that can go into a depression. This means that you will have to foresee this kind of thing happening, and i bet some players will even build a stock market to help see this kind of thing coming to fluition. My only issue with it would be players intentionally trying to cause this to happen. If you think about it one clever person could sell enough of one thing to crash it's prices, and then your market starts having issues.

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2 hours ago, Kuritho said:

Hey guys, quick thing about begging for a Great Depression is like begging for all your resources to disappear.

You don't want that shit to happen. Ever.

why not it could balance out the many monoplys to come?

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1 minute ago, unown006 said:

why not it could balance out the many monoplys to come?

Uhh...

Should I just ignore this comment?

GREAT DEPRESSIONS CAN CREATE MONOPOLIES!

Let's say you have a brick. Neat, huh?

And you want more bricks.

Unfortunately, the cost for bricks is very high as everyone wants and needs them.

So you could either buy them very expensive from a random dude, or pay a monopolized business for bricks for much cheaper.

 

Read this Forbes article if you care.

Maybe one giant business gets wiped, sure.

But then you have ten others competing for that missing spot, making (a) stronger business(es) in the end.

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1 minute ago, Kuritho said:

 

But then you have ten others competing for that missing spot, making (a) stronger business(es) in the end.

not in none of them fall it would potently shake up the economy good or bad

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I think the one thing about DU that makes me interested is the trading of the blueprints (snapshots). Resource trading is boring to me but if I can make a line of really nice ships and sell those to the highest bidder, well that's not something you can do in any other game.

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3 hours ago, Kuritho said:

What?

Rephrase If you have many businesses competing for 1 market there can be NO monopoly until the majority of business fail however the depression can also break the economy like you suggested its more a roll of the dice  

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1 hour ago, unown006 said:

Rephrase If you have many businesses competing for 1 market there can be NO monopoly until the majority of business fail however the depression can also break the economy like you suggested its more a roll of the dice  

Reality check: you can have monopolies and small businesses.

Take your local Walmart. Neat, huh? Not really a monopoly, but still a good example.

Now take your local grocery store. Look at the prices.

Whoa, would you look at that.

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Just now, Kuritho said:

Reality check: you can have monopolies and small businesses.

Take your local Walmart. Neat, huh? Not really a monopoly, but still a good example.

Now take your local grocery store. Look at the prices.

Whoa, would you look at that.

That is true it all really depends however either way they are still competing

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3 minutes ago, unown006 said:

That is true it all really depends however either way they are still competing

So there can be no monopoly ?

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