What would be your MAIN mode of transportation? Poll

[Eris Bellona]

So, my first poll was quite a success in my opinion. It seems a majority of the people who voted (at the time of this post) preferred a starship as their preferred base location. So, this is a new poll for people who love to fly/drive around and live on the move.

 

For this poll I want you to vote for which ship/vehicle you think would be your main mode of transportation, and I don't mean just situational transportation. What do you think you'd be running around the most in? A fighter for all you loners out there? A corvette class ship for those who want a small crew? Or perhaps you like to strike fear into the hearts of those around you and want to roam around in a large Flagship with a lot of crew and security. Or maybe you just want your feet planted firmly on the ground of Alioth, and want a more land based vehicle.

 

Whatever you choose, just remember to take something into consideration:

This is just a form of transportation, a way of getting you to point A to point B and back again, not a mobile base.

[ShioriStein]

Space trucker need big, cheap ship and if it can one man ship is ok.

[Ben Fargo]

I'm planning for a cargo ship, eventually about 50 to 60 m, although I expect it will need to be smaller at first.

[Zamarus]

I want a hovercar that looks like a Black Porsche 924

[Kurock]

DeLorean DMC-12 with hover and time travel capabilities. 

[Cybrex]

 

Alternatively...

 

[Vinux]

Cybrex, I love your first choice.

It should be great to design it ingame . But in this case, we also need to design the SpaceBall One, which is a little bigger

 

 

In my case, I hesitate between classic interstellar or atmospheric fighter. But I finaly choose interstellar because it feels better.

[Haunty]

I'll probably spend most of my time on an atmo planet at first, but I may spend more time in a smallish interplanetary ship later.

[Anaximander]

1 hour ago, Haunty said:

I'll probably spend most of my time on an atmo planet at first, but I may spend more time in a smallish interplanetary ship later.

Indeed. I find it funny most people think they will be 100% in Space, all the time, no hindernace.

Personally, I'd spend my time hunting people, in a forest, just to build that Highscore, also known as "Bounty Pool". We all know the more the Bounty on your head, the better you are, right?

 

In a game where no PVE  quests exist, someone has to be the Quest Objective.

[MookMcMook]

I think a huge "Flagship" which stores smaller ships and has a large crew. I love the idea of simulating being in a space navy:-

 

* A huge ship is going to take down anything smaller and with smaller stats while being more or less impervious, with lots of crew and marines and then pilots for smaller craft eg scouts, cloaking if it's in (ie battlefield intel via voice comms). That's the kind of ship to dominate a planet or planetary body full of valuable resources... atst as a trade node or vertex connecting edges/flight paths.

 

Also it's going to be a full 24hr around the clock job needing a large crew for world time differences: Shift time and in-game down-time.

 

The race is going to be constant: To build more powerful ships, more of these ships, with tech and fuelling the war economy while depriving any threats of their own economy.

 

No Han Solo for me: "Storm Troopers" are finally going to get their day in the sun.

[Lethys]

1 hour ago, MookMcMook said:

A huge ship is going to take down anything smaller and with smaller stats while being more or less impervious, with lots of crew and marines and then pilots for smaller craft eg scouts, cloaking if it's in (ie battlefield intel via voice comms). That's the kind of ship to dominate a planet or planetary body full of valuable resources... atst as a trade node or vertex connecting edges/flight paths.

Yeah because big guns are known to take down smaller fast ships with ease. 

[Anaximander]

@MookMcMook

 

You can't really fight a smaller ship with a bigger ship, for the same reason you can't easily hit a fly as it buzzes around you - tracking.

Big guns, take time to turn, cause they got mass, so they can't keep up with a smaller and faster vessel. It's why Capital Ships IRL have escort ships  smaller ships that can fend off equal size vessels.

Will that Space Battleship have like 10000mm armor plating ? Yes. Will the smaller fleet be able to stop it alone? Most likely no. But they can destroy the battleship's weapons... or thrusters... or sensors. Enough to drive off the battleship - which is why would you even attack it with a smaller force in the first place.

People should not forget, capital ships are meant to fight off other capital sihps - if you bring out a capital to fight off frigates, you might need to reconsider the logistics of your fleet  

[Takao]

10 hours ago, Lethys said:

Yeah because big guns are known to take down smaller fast ships with ease. 

And that’s why you stick a lot small guns on your bigger ships, so that you can engage anything that is smaller then you, like ww1 and 2 ships also had („secondary armament“).

In space this gets more complicated, because you move in a 3D space and not a 2D water plane so you will have to stick more guns insourcing ship, or live with blind zones.

I really hope that a realistic shaped space ship, a cylinder with a cone in the front, will be the only valuable option for space ships ...

[Lethys]

Just now, Takao said:

And that’s why you stick a lot small guns on your bigger ships, so that you can engage anything that is smaller then you, like ww1 and 2 ships also had („secondary armament“).

In space this gets more complicated, because you move in a 3D space and not a 2D water plane so you will have to stick more guns insourcing ship, or live with blind zones.

I really hope that a realistic shaped space ship, a cylinder with a cone in the front, will be the only valuable option for space ships ...

Yeah because large ships are made for killing smaller ones and not the same size as them.

Some point defense? Sure why not. But the main point of a large ship is to kill siblings. Gl fighting another large ship

[Takao]

2 minutes ago, Lethys said:

Yeah because large ships are made for killing smaller ones and not the same size as them.

Well, not really.

You don’t build a ship and then fit guns on it, you design a gun and then build the ship to fit them. 

You also armour the the ship in a way, that it can withstand its on shells in some ranges, e.g. it can fight against itself.

The bigger the gun, the bigger the ship needs to be to fit them.

Hitsory has shown, that big ships are actually not that good in fighting a lot smaller vessels, because their guns may have problems sinking then, damaging them is way easier.

See the sinking of the Bismarck, which showed that pretty good.

[MookMcMook]

1 hour ago, Takao said:

And that’s why you stick a lot small guns on your bigger ships, so that you can engage anything that is smaller then you, like ww1 and 2 ships also had („secondary armament“).

In space this gets more complicated, because you move in a 3D space and not a 2D water plane so you will have to stick more guns insourcing ship, or live with blind zones.

I really hope that a realistic shaped space ship, a cylinder with a cone in the front, will be the only valuable option for space ships ...

Yeah on point: The big guns are going to take out any ship that may have a big gun that "could damage" the big ship.

 

The big ship is also going to have lots of small guns (crewed by ~60-100 ppl or so) then you'll have numerous small ships that can buzz off the big ship too.

 

Then we don't really know what sort of offensive weapons will be possible:-

 

* Fission Nukes?

* EMP?

* Beam/laser spikes

* Missile (explosive) cohorts

* simple torpedo kinetic damage

 

You got to wonder what the ranges will be as well and then if there's recharge and ammo rates to depletion along with shields.

 

I'm not arguing THIS WILL HAPPEN: I'm saying I'd be happy if this DOES HAPPEN. @Lethys If you have more info about this then please share...

 

It just seems to me that a gnat or mosquito is trying to take a chunk out of a tank is a suitable metaphor. Whereas I guess ships that can go into planetary atmosphere may work better as smaller constructs, perhaps?

 

etc.

[MookMcMook]

6 hours ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

@MookMcMook

 

You can't really fight a smaller ship with a bigger ship, for the same reason you can't easily hit a fly as it buzzes around you - tracking.

Big guns, take time to turn, cause they got mass, so they can't keep up with a smaller and faster vessel. It's why Capital Ships IRL have escort ships  smaller ships that can fend off equal size vessels.

Will that Space Battleship have like 10000mm armor plating ? Yes. Will the smaller fleet be able to stop it alone? Most likely no. But they can destroy the battleship's weapons... or thrusters... or sensors. Enough to drive off the battleship - which is why would you even attack it with a smaller force in the first place.

People should not forget, capital ships are meant to fight off other capital sihps - if you bring out a capital to fight off frigates, you might need to reconsider the logistics of your fleet  

Thanks for the explanation. I do get that. It seems from a technological point of view of space battles and technological space race, that that outcome does not "add up": Simply increasing the parameters:-

 

* acceleration of movement in space

* Number of weapon systems and their stats and variety of types eg range

* shields

* scanning/target locking eg range

 

All these would favour a larger technologically advanced construct in an open space plane. Ie it can even deploy drones or as you say have scout ships along side, then it's just sheer power and sheer numbers game.

 

Of course for gameplay reasons, we'll see what the devs decide.

[Lethys]

Yeah we disagree then. As i would only fit and man some point defenses but the main armament are def big guns only to prey in large ships like you both described. Smaller ships are way better countered with smaller ships. It's a mmo after all

[MookMcMook]

6 minutes ago, Lethys said:

Yeah we disagree then. As i would only fit and man some point defenses but the main armament are def big guns only to prey in large ships like you both described. Smaller ships are way better countered with smaller ships. It's a mmo after all

Maybe you're right, a balance between SIZE to TRACKING/TARGETING and SIZE to RANGE will be more conducive to gameplay?

 

It will be fascinating whatever happens:-

 

Space Battle (large constructs + smaller constructs)

 

Atmosphere Battles (smaller constructs?)

 

Avatar to Avatar Battles inside Constructs and Bases (avatars pew-pewing)...

 

Anyway pardon slight off topic. Also like the idea of flying a smaller construct in a non-combat role for sure (hint: after such battles!).

[Lethys]

11 minutes ago, MookMcMook said:

Maybe you're right, a balance between SIZE to TRACKING/TARGETING and SIZE to RANGE will be more conducive to gameplay?

 

It will be fascinating whatever happens:-

 

Space Battle (large constructs + smaller constructs)

 

Atmosphere Battles (smaller constructs?)

 

Avatar to Avatar Battles inside Constructs and Bases (avatars pew-pewing)...

 

Anyway pardon slight off topic. Also like the idea of flying a smaller construct in a non-combat role for sure (hint: after such battles!).

It wouldn't make much sense If Tracking, trajectory, velocity, gun properties (size, calibre, ...) are not taken into account. 

 

Imho large guns won't be able to hit small targets, only If you get lucky or the small ship makes piloting mistakes

[Anaximander]

@MookMcMook

 

It's not exactly acceleration, but angular Acceleration and Angular Velocity that determines if yo uget hit, then it's your ship's print / profile.

You can have a giant mothership, with highly advanced guns, like super fast charging railguns, but the guns are still limitedby friction , mass and most importantly, the rate at which computers solve the equations invovled for the guns to "lead" the target, called a firing solution, something very real.

 

Of course, you CAN have a ship built with smaller caliber guns, that they are lighter, thus they can turn easier on a swivel, so they can hit smaller ships, but this is the problem.

Smaller guns == less effective range. The reason guns are built bigger, is so they can hit further. And this is the problem essentially,  the moment a Captital ship arrives, that can OUTRANGE youy in effectiveness, you are dead.

This is why you don't build a gun THEN fit it onto a ship, you got a ship, it has a purpose.

Sure, you can put missiles, rockets, artillery or railguns and lasers on it, they all got their weakness. Even something like a laser, would still not be "best" since lasers lose potency over long ranges but being much more accurate.

I know it sounds "impossible", since most MMOs are built around "bigger is better", but in reality, biger means just more responsibility. Any ship shpe has a place in DU. And DU follows EVE's model of combat.

Battleships in EVE are nothing without frigates and destroyers around them to protect them from E-Warfare frigates that go around at 5000 m/s, making the Battleship unable to attack and essentially ,being a punchbag until it runs out of energy and explodes.

You may say "buit that's a coward's way of fighting, 50 smaller ships vs 1 giant ship". Yes, and Sun Tzu, the guy who wrote the Art of War, spoken of a death by a thousand cuts. 

This is a clip from EVE to showcase the issue with Capital ships.

The moment the ship locks onto a person, that person immediately leaves the battle, cause if they stay., they will die, while all others on that fleet keep hammerign away at the Carrier

Same will go down in DU  

[Dorlas]

What would I want to use as my main mode of transportation? Huge mother-effing Star Destroyer, where I am captain, of course.

What is the realistic scenario? Some small ship that I (hopefully) build myself, maybe with a gun so I can defend myself, because there is no way I could even be part of any navy (not even command one of big ships) without reliable gaming scheldule and dedicating pretty big amount of time into "being on duty".

[MookMcMook]

55 minutes ago, Dorlas said:

What would I want to use as my main mode of transportation? Huge mother-effing Star Destroyer, where I am captain, of course.

What is the realistic scenario? Some small ship that I (hopefully) build myself, maybe with a gun so I can defend myself, because there is no way I could even be part of any navy (not even command one of big ships) without reliable gaming scheldule and dedicating pretty big amount of time into "being on duty".

I was wondering if let's say you have a 60-crew, then you might need "pods" for double that number (120) so that at least half of that 120 or so is online providing (ie 60 while 60 would be off-line/out of game) "fully-functional" operational response 24hrs?

 

Obviously with increasing size that number can hit "fully operational" more consistency with dependency on less individual people (beneficial for social and work life out of game); atst as perhaps having more arsenal and defensive power? Maybe you could call this "personnel redundancy" designed in mind.

 

Thing is, imagine how valuable having a great big "Star Destroyer" capturing a planet from Space: Any resources on that planet would be under control either from claiming hexes in the first place (getting there) or transfering resources off planet (space) under the watchful wake of such "Star Destroyers". Also with plenty of redundancy crew, full emergency, wonder if there would be a strategy for boarding other semi-large ships and claiming such "prizes".

 

Alternatively lots of small ships zooming into the atmosphere might be able to dodge the Star Destroyer and take the fight to anything planetside?

 

Fascinating possibilities. For sure it would be a bit of a chore being on a big ship with a schedule, but could social (lots of players), could be immensely powerful in combat and rewarding in pay-off for "hoarding an entire planet or system" (!) and how interesting if the engineering (lua and design of such ships) and then the (management and running of crews) operations side as well. It really stokes the fires of fantasy and sci-fi to me in this concept sketch stage.

[Lethys]

52 minutes ago, MookMcMook said:

Thing is, imagine how valuable having a great big "Star Destroyer" capturing a planet from Space: Any resources on that planet would be under control either from claiming hexes in the first place (getting there) or transfering resources off planet (space) under the watchful wake of such "Star Destroyers". Also with plenty of redundancy crew, full emergency, wonder if there would be a strategy for boarding other semi-large ships and claiming such "prizes".

 

Thing is though, as you've seen from various videos, there are orbits for ships. So that ship needs to constantly fly and can't just hover in space. 

As there are stats like atmospheric drag and gravity (see videos), a huge ship might not be able to land at all in a planet (or only once....)

So you NEED small ships anyway to get down to the planet.

One of such ships ist a great feat and ist a logistical problem in it's own and surely ist a good addition to any army, but you will never ever be able to control all resources and tiles in a planet just because you have one of those. Alioth hast more than 50.000 tiles - gl patrolling that with a slow ship

[Anaximander]

2 hours ago, Dorlas said:

What would I want to use as my main mode of transportation? Huge mother-effing Star Destroyer, where I am captain, of course.

What is the realistic scenario? Some small ship that I (hopefully) build myself, maybe with a gun so I can defend myself, because there is no way I could even be part of any navy (not even command one of big ships) without reliable gaming scheldule and dedicating pretty big amount of time into "being on duty".

Yeah, exactly. People need to realise capital ships have capital ships logistics.

What is a capital ship logistics? Crew, repairs, refuelling, protection, docking, upgrades and the fact that once the ship is out of a dock? That ship is its own little floating village, and a captain needs to manage that little village, with all its politics, annoyances, whining and constant bickering between people.

People just want to be Captain Kirk, minus the inconvenience of the responsibility for the ship, just the fun stuff, always, not the logistics or being yelled at for not managing your ship right from the people who gave you the super-giant battleship cause they trusted you with it. Of course, only a battleship will satisfy some people, minus the downtime between combat.

 

Oh, people will say "what are you talking about Twerk? If someone dares tell me, the Almighty [Irrelevant Derpson Name Space Captain Wannabe] what to do, I will mutiny and leave the org and see them cry about me stealing their ship, lol". Yeah, the moment you do that, you have a crew that can actually klll you and return the ship to reap the rewards of being loyal to the alliance - who knows, by becoming the next captain, or a reward in general ... like not losing all the money they got in the alliance bank... or their stored wealth back home.

Well, people will have to realise that the bigger the ship, the more the responsibilities for it. 

And while I do think people don't have time for gaming 24/7, I do think everyone will have a spot in a navy's carriers. Why? Cause carriers are not near the frontline, they fight from long ranges with their fighters, so they act more like a mobile base, while their fighter groups can organise missions. And carriers' fighters, also work for scouting missions.

 

 

It just pisses me to no end, seeing people wanting things to be handed to them, in a game about emergent gameplay.

It's why personally, I will fly a small fighter built for maximum stealth and just work by scouting with a ship, or on the ground - hopefully with a melee weapon *croses fingers*. As I said, all carriers need people doing scouting missions.

Cheers.