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My biggest worry about this game

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I'm honestly not that worried about big orgs. What I am worried about however is the people who do it "for the lulz/because they can". I don't really see any way to guard against them without joiking latge orgs or spend a lot of money hiring mercs 24/7 (assuming we dont have autoturrets)

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1 minute ago, 0something0 said:

I'm honestly not that worried about big orgs. What I am worried about however is the people who do it "for the lulz/because they can". I don't really see any way to guard against them without joiking latge orgs or spend a lot of money hiring mercs 24/7 (assuming we dont have autoturrets)

Same here. I don't mind being punished by deliberately flying on some guarded territory owned by org, or get destroyed by mining on territory claimed by some org, or get destroyed by provoking someone to attack me by being totally reckless. I just don't want to be trolled and destroyed because some small amount of players simply enjoys ruining other's game experience, and they do it, because the game mechanics is perfect for their playstyle, and very risky for mine. 

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1 minute ago, Ghoster said:

Just bear in mind - you bring examples from EVE community - some people here, me included, cannot refer to EVE community - we haven't played the game, and we're not responsible for the shape of your universe, nor for the approach of any particular members of that community towards other members of that community. I despise zerging, by the way, doesn't bring me any satisfaction to feel stronger in group.

Ok, I cannot work as advocate for smugglers - I haven't even considered being the one :D

And this narration about heroine, opioids, painkillers - there is no drug mechanics in DU, so your analogy, as complex and interesting as it is, is not refering to DU. In DU there will be no monopoly on some substances, no patents on drugs, no prescriptions, etc. As far as I know - correct me if I'm wrong. I smuggling mechanics even a planned feature?

About heroine and opioids - heroine is probably much stronger than any opioid prescription drugs (unless we're talking about some hardcore painkillers for terminally ill patients, however you could kill yourself by taking a relatively high dose for a first time), and I wouldn't say that drug dealers import heroine because of bad Big Pharma - they would have been doing it anyways as long as there would be demand for it, and probably it would be. Just as in case of cocaine. Of course, we can always say that, the state should just legalize heroine to prevent smuggling, but that's a much broader topic. Also - synthetic opioids, as far as I know ARE painkillers by design, and they're created by companies to make money by killing people's pain. Prescriptions are a method of limiting access to potentially addictive/dangerous drugs. Of course, some people are just getting addicted, but that's a part of our complex nature and genetic predisposition. I could literally become addicted to my lovely sleeping pills, if I wouldn't adhere to gentlemen's agreement with my doctor. :D Just sayin'. 

ALSO: forgive my grammar. :P


1) The drugs allegory is an exmaple of a smuggler's job - to circumvent a market monopoly. That's were smugglers make money. In fact, Han Solo is nothing but a drug mule in Star Wars, if anything, Star Wars is a depressing story of a person who sold drugs and got to get away with it by murdering people, cause let's face it, Han was not thinking of "oh shit, I shot that stormtrooper who enrolled in the Empire's army to pay for school". Nah, he just killed people cause he probably liked it. In fact, Kylo Ren is the good guy, he killed a known drug smuggler... but, I digress.

2) EVE is the only game with such an enviroment of player cultures, hence, the only game that can be brought as an example. One server, no different realms, player driven world. You may have not played it, sure, JC and many of the NQ stuff have played it, so they know what sucks and what doesn't ,we trust in them (as EVE Players).

3) Working solo is an acceptable line of thought. it's how people who sell Wormhole locations make money in EVE. You go out, scan, find wormhol,e, scout wsaid wormhole, sell the location to a miner for some hefty price and if you didn't rip them off or scammed them, they will keep you ona a short notice in-case you find more wormholes for them to go in and mine. Pretty much, solo career. Can it work in DU? Absolutely, planets are too big and scanning for resourcess and their lcoations being sold is part of the prospecting business. Again, don't rip off the miners, cause they pay you and having a good reputation as prosepctor is ALWAYS the better option in payment.

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6 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

From what I have seen most comments about PVP (for and against) do not apply as they are often based on another game's mechanics which are vastly different. 

 

IMO and from what I have seen and read 'If you are not my friend you are my enemy' can and will not apply in DU where interaction will be much more focused on how to find ways to collaborate. The NRSI crowd will be isolated and fenced off quicker than you can make a grilled cheese sandwich. NRSI is based on anarchy and top down thinking in a military style. DU seems to me will me much more horizontal than vertical where as long as you can and will take your responsibilities and do your part you will be fine.

 

EVE is about the four big empires and the free for all alliances military organization. While this is part of DU yes, it is also very much about the people down on the planets living their lives and doing there business. You can choose a military/combat/piracy career but you can also choose a civilian or science oriented path. There is some of that in EVE but it is very limited and I believe it will be much more prominent in DU..

That's Providence talk, we are not all NRDS here >.>  Many of us shoot first, ask questions never. Althoug,h I wanna see how NRDS will go in DUI, when you allow people to carry boarding parties on board your space stations, lol.

 

Although given how dope DU looks in building in the Dev Diaries, I'd bet people COULD make a living by fidning the best ship shpaes to coutner other ship shapes and / or ships that are suited better to avoid hits or mitigate missile damage.

 

DU has a lot of options for gameplay, which is what I always said why "EVE's game loop" doesn't apply. EVE's game loop is all about warfare at its very core, it drives the economy. However, DU is not that, DU has far more things going for it.

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19 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:


1) The drugs allegory is an exmaple of a smuggler's job - to circumvent a market monopoly. That's were smugglers make money. In fact, Han Solo is nothing but a drug mule in Star Wars, if anything, Star Wars is a depressing story of a person who sold drugs and got to get away with it by murdering people, cause let's face it, Han was not thinking of "oh shit, I shot that stormtrooper who enrolled in the Empire's army to pay for school". Nah, he just killed people cause he probably liked it. In fact, Kylo Ren is the good guy, he killed a known drug smuggler... but, I digress.

2) EVE is the only game with such an enviroment of player cultures, hence, the only game that can be brought as an example. One server, no different realms, player driven world. You may have not played it, sure, JC and many of the NQ stuff have played it, so they know what sucks and what doesn't ,we trust in them (as EVE Players).

3) Working solo is an acceptable line of thought. it's how people who sell Wormhole locations make money in EVE. You go out, scan, find wormhol,e, scout wsaid wormhole, sell the location to a miner for some hefty price and if you didn't rip them off or scammed them, they will keep you ona a short notice in-case you find more wormholes for them to go in and mine. Pretty much, solo career. Can it work in DU? Absolutely, planets are too big and scanning for resourcess and their lcoations being sold is part of the prospecting business. Again, don't rip off the miners, cause they pay you and having a good reputation as prosepctor is ALWAYS the better option in payment.

1) You digress, and oversimplify, but let me just say - Han Solo contributed to destroying some really evil forces in the galaxy. Of course, one may think that destroying whole planets is a great way of enforcing your vision and policy, however seems like many disagreed. Yes, but Han Solo was a smuggler, we just don't know what exactly was he smuggling and where. 

2) Ok, I'm glad that you trust NQ and their judgement, however it's you bringing so much references to EVE culture and events from EVE. NQ is probably refering to some aspects of EVE, but I'm not sure exactly which. Is it scale, single-shard universe, massive ship battles, or ton of (differently defined) griefing? DU is created around rebuilding civilization in a new place, which may or may not end up in a very dystopian scenario. 

3. Last thing I want to do is to become a scammer - I just freaking believe in being fair, as it is my sign of respecting other people in their wanting to live and prosper, just as much as I want to - it's probably somehow connected with sympathy/empathy, don't know for sure. I will consider every fun role giving me an opportunity to be useful solo - prospector seems ok. If it won't work, I'll become a freakin' turret gunner or maintenance robot in some large vessel. :P 

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7 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

That's Providence talk, we are not all NRDS here >.>  Many of us shoot first, ask questions never. Althoug,h I wanna see how NRDS will go in DUI, when you allow people to carry boarding parties on board your space stations, lol.

Yes, I've noticed earlier some different factions/tribes among EVE crowd. I'm always up for supporting the NRDS ones, even if SOME PEOPLE find their approach more risky for themselves. :P

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4 minutes ago, Ghoster said:

Yes, I've noticed earlier some different factions/tribes among EVE crowd.

 

Very true, just remember that when at EVE Vegas or FanFest, we all party and drink together. Red and Blue don't matter.. we'll all be yellowish green in the morning :P 

Actually some of my best in game 'friends' are very red to me .. In the end it is all about 'FriendShip Best Ship'.

 

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6 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

Very true, just remember that when at EVE Vegas or FanFest, we all party and drink together. Red and Blue don't matter.. we'll all be yellowish green in the morning :P 

Actually some of my best in game 'friends' are very red to me .. In the end it is all about 'FriendShip Best Ship'.

 

And reputation train best train, right? :P

Edit: of course it was supposed to be a tank. That's the effect of not drinking coffee today, folks. :(

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13 minutes ago, Ghoster said:

1) You digress, and oversimplify, but let me just say - Han Solo contributed to destroying some really evil forces in the galaxy. Of course, one may think that destroying whole planets is a great way of enforcing your vision and policy, however seems like many disagreed. Yes, but Han Solo was a smuggler, we just don't know what exactly was he smuggling and where. 
 

I mean, he stole Jabba's cargo of "spice". Let's be honest, Han probably snorted that spice.

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4 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

Very true, just remember that when at EVE Vegas or FanFest, we all party and drink together. Red and Blue don't matter.. we'll all be yellowish green in the morning :P 

Actually some of my best in game 'friends' are very red to me .. In the end it is all about 'FriendShip Best Ship'.

 

True true, I mean, I steal ESS pots for a living, most of my "friends" in-game are pretty red in Local.

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1 minute ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

I mean, he stole Jabba's cargo of "spice". Let's be honest, Han probably snorted that spice.

A dealer never uses. Unless, it doesn't apply to smugglers. :P

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Just now, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

Diplomatic Immunity???

You :



Pandemic Legion :

 

Yeah...different tribes among EVE crowd thing...it's becoming very clear now. :P

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41 minutes ago, 0something0 said:

I'm honestly not that worried about big orgs. What I am worried about however is the people who do it "for the lulz/because they can". I don't really see any way to guard against them without joiking latge orgs or spend a lot of money hiring mercs 24/7 (assuming we dont have autoturrets)

 

 

36 minutes ago, Ghoster said:

Same here. I don't mind being punished by deliberately flying on some guarded territory owned by org, or get destroyed by mining on territory claimed by some org, or get destroyed by provoking someone to attack me by being totally reckless. I just don't want to be trolled and destroyed because some small amount of players simply enjoys ruining other's game experience, and they do it, because the game mechanics is perfect for their playstyle, and very risky for mine. 

 

That is simply the risk that you have in many other sandbox games with the slightest aspect of PvP and territorial behavior - at least most I can immediately think of.

 

If you alone cannot maintain 24/7 coverage, other people might be able to. You can (try to) hire them if you can't do it yourself. If you don't want to hire others and can't do it yourself, join up with a bigger entity (in an alliance) that can guarantee a good coverage.

 

And perhaps, if you do so or decide not to, a bit of a risk remains depending on where and when you settle down. I do believe keeping your stuff in safe zones or controlled areas will offer you a good amount of foreseeable safety depending on how the mechanics will later look like.

 

Why do you worry about the intent about some people that much? At least in my book if someone attacks and destroys your property, at that moment their intend seems totally secondary to me. They could have what most could subjectively deem "valid" reason or they may simply have no specific reason.

 

Does it change the result at that moment? I don't think so. Afterwards and so on? Sure.

 

In Minecraft (more serious with certain plugins on the server I played, including an economy, factions and one safe city all new players would spawn in or could go to trade, like the Arkship will be) we had our base near the harbor city and thus saw a lot of people coming by since it was on the coast.

 

And in the end, many of them also seemingly attacked us for no reason, even if it was futile. Because we didn't back down, we took the fight to them and kicked their asses while making sure ours weren't kicked, while making sure that property damage would remain low. My mindset is to overcome temporary setbacks and become better or, if not possible, try to avoid them.

 

----

 

In short, I would not try to worry about others who could harm you or their intent so much. Sometimes you can't change it. What you can try is try to prevent it in the first place by picking the right location, friends, allies, not making the wrong enemies, etc. Once it happened, you can try to punish them for it so they might stop or repay you for the future. And if nothing else helps, not trying to be a huge target can also help. And if it still happens and you fall, stand back up and move on. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. If someone is out after you or your faction more permanently due to grudges, you can also try to call for help at other groups.

 

I know it might be stressful and it will likely be at times, but with a bit of a thick skin and somewhat smart manoeuvring, I view it as manageable risk or part of the game.

 

On another note, if you get targeted by said supposed minority or plague of players just out to cause grief emotionally, the saying "don't feed the trolls" doesn't come out of nowhere. If you give them what they want, it'll likely last longer. If you man up and gulp it down and move on without giving them the satisfaction they look for or by even punishing them later, you'll likely do better.

 

But that's just me in the end. I still think you'll have a good time with safe zones and TCUs.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Warden said:

 

 

 

That is simply the risk that you have in many other sandbox games with the slightest aspect of PvP and territorial behavior - at least most I can immediately think of.

 

If you alone cannot maintain 24/7 coverage, other people might be able to. You can (try to) hire them if you can't do it yourself. If you don't want to hire others and can't do it yourself, join up with a bigger entity (in an alliance) that can guarantee a good coverage.

 

And perhaps, if you do so or decide not to, a bit of a risk remains depending on where and when you settle down. I do believe keeping your stuff in safe zones or controlled areas will offer you a good amount of foreseeable safety depending on how the mechanics will later look like.

 

Why do you worry about the intent about some people that much? At least in my book if someone attacks and destroys your property, at that moment their intend seems totally secondary to me. They could have what most could subjectively deem "valid" reason or they may simply have no specific reason.

 

Does it change the result at that moment? I don't think so. Afterwards and so on? Sure.

 

----

 

In short, I would not try to worry about others who could harm you or their intent so much. Sometimes you can't change it. What you can try is try to prevent it in the first place by picking the right location, friends, allies, not making the wrong enemies, etc. Once it happened, you can try to punish them for it so they might stop or repay you for the future. And if nothing else helps, not trying to be a huge target can also help. And if it still happens and you fall, stand back up and move on. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. If someone is out after you or your faction more permanently due to grudges, you can also try to call for help at other groups.

 

I know it might be stressful and it will likely be at times, but with a bit of a thick skin and somewhat smart manoeuvring, I view it as manageable risk or part of the game.

 

On another note, if you get targeted by said supposed minority or plague of players just out to cause grief emotionally, the saying "don't feed the trolls" doesn't come out of nowhere. If you give them what they want, it'll likely last longer. If you man up and gulp it down and move on without giving them the satisfaction they look for or by even punishing them later, you'll likely do better.

 

But that's just me in the end. I still think you'll have a good time with safe zones and TCUs.

 

 

Well, I guess it's a part of my nature, that principles matter to me. It somehow feels ok to be punished as a tresspaser, but not ok to be robbed of everything because someone feels he can do it. It's a different kind of loss, different kind of pain, even in a game, you know. 

I pretty much realize I've never had a thick skin (what can you do? People are different, some things you can't choose) and I'm not made for high-competitve gameplay, still loved the idea of DU and being a part of it, I just look for a most suitable formula for my own personality. I don't need excessive stress - due to some different real life stuff I had always enough of it. I don't expect whole world to respect my playstyle, however I want to avoid griefing as much as possible, of course provided I do what I can not to give people reasons to attack me. I'm not aimed at making enemies and my approach should revolve about idea of relative neutrality and universal respect. Of course neutrality is not set in stone, however it's something I want to try.

About retaliation - it only applies to single attackers. If a small group decides to grief solo player, the latter is on a lost position. That's why I would love to see a kind of balancing role of defense systems, that puts the attacker at much higher risks than defender. It's just a thought. If I can make them feel punished just by attacking me and paying dearly in exchange for dubious reward, it will just be a best detterent. I don't want to engage my emotions and playtime to retaliate to some evident trolls. I believe DU should provide me with much better and construtive options, driven towards rebuilding civilization. 

Of course, you're right about protecting my assets and keeping most of them in a safe zone, it's a given. Probably, building and maintaining anything outside of safe-zone will be a big experiment, especially in an early game - still want to try it at some point, since it could be fun and exciting, and I don't want to feel 100% isolated from the playerbase. I'm also fully aware that I have to maintain my protection systems, it's something completely normal. I just want to be sure that, those protection mechanism will be really deterrent for most of griefers, that's all. I want to them simply to be effective and worth investing my time and resources in.

So all in all - reasons behind actions are important to me, my own reasons, and other player reasons. After all, it's maybe a part of gameplay too?

 

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As a thought: Why not join a group that covers whatever goals and dreams you have in mind? I may have missed or forgotten previous posts where you lift the secret whether you want to do your own thing or join up with a group right now or later, but "maintain my protection systems" implies you running them (alone?).

 

You'll probably have a better time with others together where you can benefit from easier maintenance of such systems, shared cost and so on.

 

And if you're more into creative designs and whatnot, not so much combat, there's still plenty of groups to cover your needs by that preference. We also recruit (those interested in leading).

 

#shamelessad

#micdrop

 

But in all seriousness, loners often had the disadvantage by default in such environments unless they act a bit like freelancers or offer their services to the right folks for the right conditions at the right times while staying independent, I suppose.

 

The disadvantage is still apparent: Manpower. A task that might take you a week, a larger group might be able to pull off in 2 days, 1 day or just a few hours.

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25 minutes ago, Warden said:

As a thought: Why not join a group that covers whatever goals and dreams you have in mind? I may have missed or forgotten previous posts where you lift the secret whether you want to do your own thing or join up with a group right now or later, but "maintain my protection systems" implies you running them (alone?).

 

You'll probably have a better time with others together where you can benefit from easier maintenance of such systems, shared cost and so on.

 

And if you're more into creative designs and whatnot, not so much combat, there's still plenty of groups to cover your needs by that preference. We also recruit (those interested in leading).

 

#shamelessad

#micdrop

 

But in all seriousness, loners often had the disadvantage by default in such environments unless they act a bit like freelancers or offer their services to the right folks for the right conditions at the right times while staying independent, I suppose.

 

The disadvantage is still apparent: Manpower. A task that might take you a week, a larger group might be able to pull off in 2 days, 1 day or just a few hours.

Well - the main reason for wanting to try playing solo would be a satisfaction of having my little and insignificant 'legacy' worked out just by me. It may be not obtainable in DU environment, but it's something tempting for me. This absolutely DOES NOT MEAN not communicating with other players and not respecting the rules that apply on their respective territories.

Think of me as someone who's dreaming about self-sustaining his little life as a space nomad, being able to move from location to location and experience life as someone who contributes to re-building civilization on his own terms, helping whenever he can, provided he agrees with the principles of some encountered orgs (being rather pro peaceful coexistence, technological advancements, infrastructure building, diplomatic solutions rather than warmongering), while staying away from hostiles. It's probably the longing for some kind of Lucky Lucke's type of roaming freedom, just without chasing some villains part. 

Yes, loners are on disadvantage, however I believe it always can be balanced a little with some effort. Of course, I advocate for my playstyle, just as other respective members advocate for theirs. However my playstyle wouldn't be disruptive for big groups of players, it won't really break anything, if correctly applied.

And yes - manpower is a challenge for loners, and a big argument for cooperation. However, social interactions can be sometimes hard, and sometimes crowd thinking makes you a piece of a puzzle/bigger picture, and you might be forced to do something you don't really support or agree with, but you just want to stay safe and accepted. I don't want to feel squished by great power play, just to contribute to some epic fleets clashes or grand destruction. I would like to control my involvement, I want to have good options.

I'm not trying to say I'll always play like this, however for now it seems most attractive. At the start of a game I don't want to over-invest in social structure which might turn out toxic or pursuing different set of gameplay principles than mine. 

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5 hours ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

Diplomatic Immunity???

You :



Pandemic Legion :

 

 

LOL.. PL.. I guess things are getting more clear now if that is your idea of PL.. .. They are more like Oh look, a fancy destroyer.. Let's drop 4 capitals on him just in case he would maybe able to kill on of ours. Or drop ECM from 150KM out to make it a one man game. Fortunately none of those will work in DU and if you try I will probably just ram my ship down one of your throats.. If I don't bounce off :P

 

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You make a good point, but I believe this game can and very likely will turn out great. As many others have said, EVE's griefing aspect is merely a result of the large-scale player versus player environment. If you don't enjoy a game like that, then this game is possibly not for you.

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1 hour ago, NRS said:

You make a good point, but I believe this game can and very likely will turn out great. As many others have said, EVE's griefing aspect is merely a result of the large-scale player versus player environment. If you don't enjoy a game like that, then this game is possibly not for you.

And to be honest, the "griefing" part is wildly exaggerated. 

There are so many scouts and intel spread in EVE's alliance chats that you literally have to be AFK or intentionally ignoring the chats to get ganked. Usually, a gank in EVE is seen coming 10 jumps off. Same will go down in DU. 

Join a corp, get on a voice chat - teamspeak, mumbl or discord - even for the minor alerts like "Incoming enemy roam, get to safety, home defense is gathering", which is how EEVE's alliacnes treat.

That "griefing" part is what makes you jump onto voice chat and get to know other people.

And to top it off, as I said earlier, only in border regions is where the "Griefing" happens, and usually, with people who ignmore cautionary advice like "do not mine on the staging system" or "don't do PVE in the staging system", cause apparently, mining and killing NPCs in a war zone is a smart idea, right?

PEople who live deep inside an alliance's territory don't get to see much action, cause of the aforementioned scout reports., and same will go down in DU, people who want to be civilians AKA not PvP, can do such things FAR from the borders.

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8 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

There are so many scouts and intel spread in EVE's alliance chats that you literally have to be AFK or intentionally ignoring the chats to get ganked. Usually, a gank in EVE is seen coming 10 jumps off. Same will go down in DU.

DU will eventually get to that same level, yes, probably 2 -3 years after launch...

 

To match EVE's "deep alliance territory" paradigm, players will first have to construct a web of stargates in DU. And that is going to be a slow and expensive exercise by all accounts.

 

The first year or so, everyone will be mixed together in the "starter-system pressure cooker", where the borders will be arbitrary and porous as a sieve, and "buffer zones" will be relatively tiny and crossed in minutes. AWACS ships may help in this regard, provided that scanner ranges are adequate to provide sufficient early warning times.

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Yeah, but in EVE your assets are quite well protected compared to DU where somebody can destroy all your assets not in a TCU or safe zone(and TCU might not even protect property fully, just five an alert). I mean, just look at the 2b2t spawn.

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Just now, NanoDot said:

DU will eventually get to that same level, yes, probably 2 -3 years after launch...

 

To match EVE's "deep alliance territory" paradigm, players will first have to construct a web of stargates in DU. And that is going to be a slow and expensive exercise by all accounts.

 

The first year or so, everyone will be mixed together in the "starter-system pressure cooker", where the borders will be arbitrary and porous as a sieve, and "buffer zones" will be relatively tiny and crossed in minutes. AWACS ships may help in this regard, provided that scanner ranges are adequate to provide sufficient early warning times.

Well, given NQ has explained in their Q&A that "warp is not meant for small ships, but for giant ships that can't move vast distances fast otherwise", I'd say people who are paid - yes, scouts are paid in EVE - will notice a roam of enemy player ships coming towards a planet, vector their approach and tell you "they are heading for the day time of the planet. It's one of the most intrigueing jobs in DU and I personally hope that NQ won't drop the ball by introducing magical omnisciaent detection methods, but allow scouts to be sneaky - I made my concerns heard in other threads, no reason to dwell here on stealth mechanics.

The tactics in EVE are not something EVE players figured out, joining a proper military in EVE is in a very very minor way, like joining a proper military, there is certain lingo involved, certain practises and certain actions a scout performs to get things done - after all, people's stuff is on the line, yo ucan't fail.

So, if a scout is located somewhere near an enemy staging base, they can report movement the moment they notice it happening, mobilisation is the first sign of trouble after all.

And of course, spies, ruffians and the whole nine yards, they do remain on a payroll for a reason, that reason, to notify people of a large gang forming for a roam or a gank.

Point is : If the alliance chat is buzzing with "don't go out, it's dangerous" you should probably listen to them.

Personally, I can see the way NQ explains it takes time to travel between planets, similar to EVE's traveling from one region of the galaxy to another, you can be informed of an enemy coming your way, and then having a warband forming to go out and "hunt" the invaders. Half of EVE's pvp is trying to have the jump on the enemy.

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