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Jegleebow20

Aliens/Slaves/Parasites/Pandemics

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I was just thinking about aliens and different kinds there could be, like Flood-like or Predator-like or even ones like the Na'vi from the movie Avatar.

 

The idea of a nearly catastrophic parasitic alien filled my brain with al sorts of ideas of their life cycles, emergent behaviors, and viralness. A flood-like organism could decimate entire planets, eventually causing a organization to form that would quarntine that sector. Also a company could weaponize the parasite and conquer worlds. There'd have to be vaccines that have to be researched and discovered too, so that the disease/parasite isn't unstoppable.

 

Then I thought about races like the Ood and Vortigaunts, which are both slave races. So that got me thinking would DU give you the option to travel to some planet with primitive aliens and using your superior technology you could conquer them and then enslave them. Now of course there would have to be different types of slavery; such as chattel, servant, war drudges, work serfs, and livestock. All of these would have different buffs, but you could just have general slaves that follow your commands. Those buffs would be like, for example: you are attacked by a band of raiders, so you would use war drudges because the other slave types do less damage and are slower fighters than the war drudges. Also you could face rebellions, uprisings, and slave runaways.

 

I believe all of these would add more emersion, plus some really cool scenarios could arise from it.

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This is all pretty gruesome. But it's a game, nothing wrong with that!

 

These are neat ideas, and would add depth and interest; I always wanted to do this in Spore. However, there are multiple fundamentals about this game that conflict with these ideas, so I feel they will never implement something like what you're saying.

 

There won't be NPCs, due to the fact that the game is supposed to be based around player interactions. There also aren't supposed to be automated ways of doing certain things... Pretty much anything you could use primitive NPC slaves for is stuff that is supposed to be done manually by players. On top of that, programming NPC AI, actions, and infrastructure would take up a bunch of development time.

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I'd love to see things like this. Some alien menace or even NPC slavery. 

 

However,  due to the reasons mentioned above, we will likely never see this. Or not any time soon, at the very least. 

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JC mentioned aggressive Alien NPC during an interview in 2016 (I've to recover which one), as  a very very long term goal, and as a mean to "control" and challenge large organizations exploring a lot Dual Universe.

 

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2 hours ago, Jegleebow20 said:

well what about cars or something similar

Hover cars - yes

Wheeled/tracked vehicles - not at this stage, possibly later after release, maybe years after release due to server performance issues

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I haven't found any mention of cars, but way down the dev road we may see something like walkers according to Nyzaltar

 

Not that this is a guarantee or anything. Could be interesting though.

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On 21/12/2017 at 8:06 PM, Jegleebow20 said:

But what about the parasites, do you think that they would ever include those

WOW had the infamous corrupted blood disease: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrupted_Blood_incident

 

Bear in mind this was unintentional. The Mind Parasites idea sounds like Colin Wilson's book or The Invasion of the Body-Snatchers even? Tbh those are ideas are a little bit elaborate for the current 2-3yrs at least of DU development I'd have thought, a question of "outside scope" which is ultimately "a good thing" ensuring the devs focusing on solving intended challenges and dealing the extra problems that those create in any case.

 

No SC motion-capture or WOD rippling fabric on clothes extraneous details overload is for the best.

 

For example it's been said DU will be a human story (so no aliens for now thus dramatically cutting down that scope) where player emergent interactions will be huge scope for problem-solving and innovating the gameplay around; atst as building this virtual world space, such interesting questions and challenges as "will planets rotate about their axis"? are technical problems to consider eg gravity and position but with huge implications eg sunrise and sunsets which are immensely atmospheric and evocative and thence immersive.

 

Certainly in the realms of harder sci-fi, alien micro-organisms and micro-particles could be potentially lethal to humans atst as the scale of challenge presented by space itself. The latest book with some twist on the idea of mind control over distance is the 3-body problem author's second book: The Dark Forest iirc (Chinese author). As for gameplay it has to be carefully done reducing player individual agency as a gameplay mechanic.

 

But overall, if there's a schema of scope for DU, then looking INSIDE that is probably the best for current development as opposed to clearly OUTSIDE of it, if that is a practical and productive way to think about DU? Though Sci-Fi ideas are usually fun to discuss however as theorycrafting and a delight as such.

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DU is clearly Not promoted as a survival game but Is promoted as a Human interactions game. So the chance on any npc form that will hurt a player is not intended. And from my point of view that is a good point, if you want a game where aliens attack you and you are infected by parasites, look further there are enough of those games

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Any post within a quarter is still valid in my view ;)

I do like the idea, but I think you could make it viable If you take the survival part out of it, change parasites with bio enhancements or cybernetic possibilities and it would work on a global scale. Also you can use parasitical forms to implement some fun stuff, like Dax in startrek stuff. Also, slaves will probably be not done in the curent political environment, but If you plase the aliens differently, or add domesticated animals that can do stuff to help. It is also different, robotic work force that you need to program yourself and provide with docking stations/ energy units. 

 

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Yes, remember we'll have Drones which we have immense power to shape via building and scripting their behaviours (in-game AI?) I believe?

 

So ok we won't have the full paraphernalia of alien weirdness that some Sci-Fi explores, but we have to be aware of 2 things:-

 

1. Our design limitations (scope) and stick to that.

2. What is actually already possible and MORE than compensatory to excluded ideas WITHIN that scope.

 

I'd say we're all in a good place with DU. Though I do find wacky and well-thought out Sci-Fi ideas energizing as much as anyone else does and enjoy reading what others have to say on such subjects. Even though the above applies, people should still feel free to voice their own ideas, albeit sticking to the above 1-2 principles if they can (helps us understand our group input better I'd argue).

 

Perhaps the OP will be mollified with the Drones possibilities? The lua scripting, I just wonder what wizards will be at work in DU...

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3 hours ago, MookMcMook said:

Yes, remember we'll have Drones which we have immense power to shape via building and scripting their behaviours (in-game AI?) I believe?

NO, we won't have AI, nor intelligent drones. Lua ist there to give players some sort of freedom but with limits. And intelligent drones are NOT part of the vision.

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44 minutes ago, Lethys said:

NO, we won't have AI, nor intelligent drones. Lua ist there to give players some sort of freedom but with limits. And intelligent drones are NOT part of the vision.

Isn't it a "pet class" as per most mmorpgs? That's what I meant: You could script basic behaviours:-

 

* Attack Target X

* Defend ME

* Guard Position Y

 

? That seems reasonable... also I have a LUA AI book I was thinking of using :-(((

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33 minutes ago, MookMcMook said:

Isn't it a "pet class" as per most mmorpgs? That's what I meant: You could script basic behaviours:-

 

* Attack Target X

* Defend ME

* Guard Position Y

 

? That seems reasonable... also I have a LUA AI book I was thinking of using :-(((

Well so bad DU is not the "most mmorpg" . There will be pet for founder donation but they are pure cosmetic 

 

Well automation attack/defend via LUA script from a dynamic construct from i hear isnt possible. You may can only give basic command like : Go there, Follow me, Stay. 

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1 minute ago, ShioriStein said:

Well so bad DU is not the "most mmorpg" . There will be pet for founder donation but they are pure cosmetic 

 

Well automation attack/defend via LUA script from a dynamic construct from i hear isnt possible. You may can only give basic command like : Go there, Follow me, Stay. 

If you have basic commands to script, then it does beg the question of more complex commands: Where does one finish and the other end?

 

I'm more focusing on my own interest in spending in-game time LUA scripting than the actual consequences game-wide of drones and AI or bots which I understand may require server-restrictions.

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44 minutes ago, MookMcMook said:

Isn't it a "pet class" as per most mmorpgs? That's what I meant: You could script basic behaviours:-

 

* Attack Target X

* Defend ME

* Guard Position Y

 

? That seems reasonable... also I have a LUA AI book I was thinking of using :-(((

Basic behavior != AI

 

Even attacking/defending is quite a task and Not verified if that's even possible.

 

PPL should just use the correct terms and not sell smth as fact. Because Others might believe that and then jump on a non existant Hype train

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1 minute ago, Lethys said:

Basic behavior != AI

 

Even attacking/defending is quite a task and Not verified if that's even possible.

 

PPL should just use the correct terms and not sell smth as fact. Because Others might believe that and then jump on a non existant Hype train

I posed a "?"  to elicit a response, so no need to hail me down officer!

 

There will be no "decision trees", "behaviour trees" or "FSM" or other Game AI capacities?

 

I remember watching a video of JC controlling a ship construct... remotely. So I thought there was capacity for some basic commands and from that what limit on other game AI is possible/not possible? So it is possible to:-

 

1. Animate them

2. Move them.

3. Behaviour = ?being asked here?

 

What can drones be made to do usefully, I am wondering? Could a large drone be a sort of "Donkey/Mule" for extra transport of goods?

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27 minutes ago, MookMcMook said:

I posed a "?"  to elicit a response, so no need to hail me down officer!

 

There will be no "decision trees", "behaviour trees" or "FSM" or other Game AI capacities?

 

I remember watching a video of JC controlling a ship construct... remotely. So I thought there was capacity for some basic commands and from that what limit on other game AI is possible/not possible? So it is possible to:-

 

1. Animate them

2. Move them.

3. Behaviour = ?being asked here?

 

What can drones be made to do usefully, I am wondering? Could a large drone be a sort of "Donkey/Mule" for extra transport of goods?

If ppl constantly use the term "AI" in regards to lua then others (who might have just joined and read the forums) may think it's possible. Which is not the case. AI implies that a drone can think on it's own and defend you when attacked. Or that ppl might be able to create a drone army. Which they can't.

 

Remote control (an element which you can place in a construct which enables you to steer it from the outside) is smth completely different. As is a mule which will just follow you around. That's not an AI. 

 

Lua can only facilitate things but it'll NEVER replace a human. So no automated ship turrets, no automated mining, no automated Bodyguards

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Sure boss, I do appreciate your "wider considerations here" at "this early stage" to "set the record straight".

 

I guess my example to replace the OP's theorycrafting with a game space with wide interactivity already set to be in the game, has not been an apt one. Hm disappointing I could not help with a constructive alternative suggestion.

 

But -

 

hehe, only joking ! :lol:

 

@Jegleebow20 I know what you mean about sci-fi interest in "The Other". I do like the idea of some AI-sentient like things which seemed at least possible via our own creative work in-game. But the extra dev work would even for this as @Lethys says is too pregnant with high-level game altering implications.

 

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AI does not mean sentient AI.  They are very much different things.  AI has been used for decades to describe the logic (simple and complex) of scripted automated actions in gaming(the AI in x game isn’t smart enough to walk around x to get to me, etc..).  Making an assumption about the complexity of an AI when someone mentions it is a mistake.  A drone being able to follow a person is a basic AI.  Then if it is given the logic to travel around intervening objects it is made into a less basic form of AI.  I read people dismissing ideas completely too often because of assumptions.

 

Back to subject:  I believe NQ’s wording was that they wouldn’t add any npc life except possibly some wildlife.  This seems to imply that the life would be more cosmetic than for the purposes you described.

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On 9/1/2017 at 5:48 AM, John said:

JC mentioned aggressive Alien NPC during an interview in 2016 (I've to recover which one), as  a very very long term goal, and as a mean to "control" and challenge large organizations exploring a lot Dual Universe.

 

I don’t remember that at all, but like others have mentioned... I’d definitely support it, just doesn’t seem like it’s NQs vision 

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