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Using vs Selling Mined Resources?

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Who out there is going to be selling vs using all of the resources they're mining?

 

I don't think I've come across an organization whose main specialty is going to be mining and selling off what they pull out of the ground. 

 

It seems like most people are going to be using what they mine, although at some point they're going to want some cash and selling off something they don't need or have a surplus might take precedence. 

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I think that depends on the time frame you're talking about. I imagine there will be two groups of people in the first month or two: Those who sell everything they mine to the npc traders in order to gain currency, and those who keep it all for use in construction/industry. As time goes on, the economy will settle down as people start to meet their basic needs, and commerce will pick up with the more industrial focused groups probably selling their goods and services.

 

I know my group, Evil Inc. will (hopefully) be working with bulk resources for trading and manufacturing purposes once we get established and there are some trade hubs.

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I ten to take the stance of 'If I have 'x' amount stockpiled and ready, I'll sell the excess', it's just one of those things where having too much can just weigh down your options as to movement, etc. 

If I were to permanently setup somewhere and know that I'm going to be statically placed for months at a time, I'd probably keep everything.
The other thing is, you have to look at it as instant profit vs long term profit, both equally good, but it's up to the player at that point. 

As for full organizations, I haven't yet seen any that are just dedicated to it either. 

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I think that it would be a better economic decision to use the materials and process them into structures and ships and sell those. I am expecting that that is what will be happening for the most part, at least early on in the game. We might also see taxed mining areas where there is an abundance of resources or there are rare materials, so the owners could make a profit without even needing to mine the stuff out of the ground.

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Who out there is going to be selling vs using all of the resources they're mining?

 

I don't think I've come across an organization whose main specialty is going to be mining and selling off what they pull out of the ground. 

 

It seems like most people are going to be using what they mine, although at some point they're going to want some cash and selling off something they don't need or have a surplus might take precedence. 

 

Think the first few weeks to months will be scarce on the markets cause of the spacerace and territory control. Big/fast orgs will want to claim as fast as possible.

But I think since there are a lot of players (hopefully), the markets gets going fast so we see a drop in price and more people in space soon after release.

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Some later game orgs (and maybe some earlier ones) will have to start with mining (or exploration), and they will not likely have the facilities to refine what they mine. After they get some funds though, they will want to set up a refinery ASAP, therefore only selling refined resources for a greater markup. Later, when they have all the fancy things an experienced org has, they may stop mining their own materials and buy from the newer players so the manpower can be tasked elsewhere (such as towards their military).

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I have some plans to make different use of excess resources (if I ever happen to even have them). I usually suck at making profit anyway.

 

I would love to travel to some unvisited or already exhausted & abandoned places and build there dungeons of sorts: a labyrinth, traps, pieces of local lore and most of all, LOOT. Or I could just be a prick and put in the final room a massive chest which merely contains a datapad with words "Good job!" (gotta reward for all that exploration somehow). Or how about a treasure map? We shall see what shenanigans DU allows. 

 

Still thinking about how to mark the entrances, some bizarre totem would probably be appropriate and relatively easy to spot. 

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Who out there is going to be selling vs using all of the resources they're mining?

 

I don't think I've come across an organization whose main specialty is going to be mining and selling off what they pull out of the ground. 

 

It seems like most people are going to be using what they mine, although at some point they're going to want some cash and selling off something they don't need or have a surplus might take precedence. 

 

I think exporting and importing minerals from other groups is going to be a thing, depending if scarcity will be an issue. Well established colonies will need fresh supplies for whatever manufacturing is possible in this game from the 'border worlds' aka the frontier worlds. 

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Personally I hope to either work with a company or by my self set up an exchange where people can bring their raw resources and trade them for equivalents amounts of refined versions (minus a reasonable profit of course) or cash if they want.

 

It would be cool to create this sort of hub to bring people in who are doing the mining thing and offer them everything they need, if I can leverage putting skill points into refining we can both benefit from the exchanging of specializations. They getting a more efficient conversion than if they had done it themselves, me getting more raw resources than I could get with my specializations.

 

Eventually this could grow into a hub where people start to settle and form a community around

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Personally I hope to either work with a company or by my self set up an exchange where people can bring their raw resources and trade them for equivalents amounts of refined versions (minus a reasonable profit of course) or cash if they want.

 

It would be cool to create this sort of hub to bring people in who are doing the mining thing and offer them everything they need, if I can leverage putting skill points into refining we can both benefit from the exchanging of specializations. They getting a more efficient conversion than if they had done it themselves, me getting more raw resources than I could get with my specializations.

 

Eventually this could grow into a hub where people start to settle and form a community around

That can work, especially for lone wolf type people, but for orgs they would usually try to be in control of as much of the process as possible (mining to refinery, refinery to assemblers). My recommendation is to setting it up on a frontier world (not the homeworld as there would be too much competition).

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If you're a miner and you research the skill tree for the mining stuff, you will likely not be able to craft various other stuff from other trees, that are still useful to you. Then you'll need currency, and you'll sell resources.

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If you don't have - or don't want to - invest in Refininery, then you sure as heck won't be using the minerals.

Remember, you mine MINERALS, you process and refine them into materials. Ain't nobody got time for Level 5 Refining skills, but guess, what, everyone got time for some mad piloting skills to fly a really giant container with thrusters and hollow out asteroids in space.

Plus, unlike EVE, there won't be free refineries, people will charge for them, sure, but most orgs will probably retain their machinery for their operational needs, so, one's best choice, is to mine for people who pay for the minerals, or at least :


1) Train skills and mine minerals, sell them for profit, build capital fund.

2) Have enough money to start up your own organisation or crew on a ship.

3) Mine and keep the minerals for later use - Sell some if you need some extra cash.

4) Acquire schematics for modules, research and upgrade them. Until they are maxed out in research, keep mining.

5) Have schematics fully researched for material efficiency or w/e , then start investing into hardware, like 3D printers, storage containers, etcetara.

6) Now you can use all the stored minerals for reprocessing on YOUr facilities, then use the resources for manufacturing of modules you researched into.


Using minerals without proper refinement, is like wasting resources. It's why mining will be a huge first party undertaking for most organisations. Miners are the ones to gather all the resources, not to mention, the ones probably in the most trouble of all professions.

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I don't think I'm going to lone wolf it but it makes sense to have one person in the org who is maxing out their refining skill and takes care of handling processing of resources.

 

I have to say I'm most excited about the community aspects of this game so taking on a role where I'm in a position to be creating trade networks is appealing

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I don't think I'm going to lone wolf it but it makes sense to have one person in the org who is maxing out their refining skill and takes care of handling processing of resources.

 

I have to say I'm most excited about the community aspects of this game so taking on a role where I'm in a position to be creating trade networks is appealing

That's the CORRECT way of doing things, but you should never underestimate of people's need for entitlement. Having only ONE person with refinery skills, means that you can end up with 100% lockdown on refining if that person goes AFK for weeks - or decides to coerce you into a bigger share of the profits.

 

You should have at least three people with refinery skills, the only real problem is, setting up the proper schedule for refineries, since it's not gonna be something intanteneous, like in eVE (I'm only guessing ,given the concepts behind the foundry units). So, these refinery operators of yours, are the people who will pretty much, have to stay all day and do nothing but refinery minerals into materials, of proper quantities and the such.

 

Also, setting up trading networks, means you also have to sacrifice at leat 3-4 hours a day, issueing contracts, checking the market influx on volume-to-price ratios, running spreadsheets and the such. It's not something you should commit to if you are not determined to play the world's most complicated gambling game - that being the market. 

 

Now, setting up a safe network for delivery of goods, that's an appealing business, locking down all major shipment of products from facotires to markets across the stars, is the way to go. That's actually interesting and requires little to no spreadsheets, only distances, times of flight and fuel-to-distance ratios to calculate wages for your spacetruckers and the cost of the shipping for the client.

 

Plus, you won't have an aneurism every time some smartass does a bubble scheme and makes you lose 30% of your money by devalueing an item to oblivion - yeah, that is what a Realistic Economy means.

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That's the CORRECT way of doing things, but you should never underestimate of people's need for entitlement. Having only ONE person with refinery skills, means that you can end up with 100% lockdown on refining if that person goes AFK for weeks - or decides to coerce you into a bigger share of the profits.

 

You should have at least three people with refinery skills, the only real problem is, setting up the proper schedule for refineries, since it's not gonna be something intanteneous, like in eVE (I'm only guessing ,given the concepts behind the foundry units). So, these refinery operators of yours, are the people who will pretty much, have to stay all day and do nothing but refinery minerals into materials, of proper quantities and the such.

 

For some reason, I feel that NQ will implement automatic processes for refinery of minerals. There may be some sort of refining element that you can put into a refinery, but perhaps only people with X level of refining skills will be able to use it, if only because DU is such an interesting game and NQ surely wouldn't be so cruel as to force people to spend their time and money staring at rocks and clicking "Refine" all day.

 

Concerning mining organizations...it *is* an interesting phenomenon that there haven't been any focused largely on mining. I have seen divisions of organizations dedicated to the gathering of resources, but most of these are for industrial uses rather than for market selling. For example, Objective Driveyards has their Logistics??? Division on mining, and there's also Vortrex Mining, etc. These large corporations (most of which are focused on spacecraft construction) are probably going to have the infrastructure in place to consume whatever they mine, so it's unlikely we'll see excess selling from these organizations. And again, many will focus on vertical process integration as much as possible to control costs wherever possible.

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For some reason, I feel that NQ will implement automatic processes for refinery of minerals. There may be some sort of refining element that you can put into a refinery, but perhaps only people with X level of refining skills will be able to use it, if only because DU is such an interesting game and NQ surely wouldn't be so cruel as to force people to spend their time and money staring at rocks and clicking "Refine" all day.

 

Concerning mining organizations...it *is* an interesting phenomenon that there haven't been any focused largely on mining. I have seen divisions of organizations dedicated to the gathering of resources, but most of these are for industrial uses rather than for market selling. For example, Objective Driveyards has their Logistics??? Division on mining, and there's also Vortrex Mining, etc. These large corporations (most of which are focused on spacecraft construction) are probably going to have the infrastructure in place to consume whatever they mine, so it's unlikely we'll see excess selling from these organizations. And again, many will focus on vertical process integration as much as possible to control costs wherever possible.

Notice, automatic refinery - as anything in the game - runs on your RAM, meaning, someone needs to be near said Foundry / Smelter Element for it to work. You could add minerals for a week, with a person havng the task of running the refinery, by adding minerals to the containers or to the smelters themselves, then starting the process.

 

Just because something is automated, it doesn't mean you have infinite capacity of minerals you can process with one sweipe. In EVE, that works, because you refine minerals in a space station, with people who do the job for you - that's NPC imaginary people, not actual players. In DU, you have to be those formerly imaginary people. 

 

Perhaps there's a way to "stream" minerals in nanopack form into a smelter, as showcased in one of the concept arts for the smelters, but still, you'd have to input said nanopacks into the smelter, that refines them into materials ,then input a new nanopack, then again the nagain, or, a specific container may be linked to the smelter, that resupllies minerals to it for processing.

 

This though, doesn't mean people won't have to load it up and still be around it for the whole process to finish running. A person will ALWAYS be needed to run the whole operation, there's no server-side running of your factory.

 

Which is why I suggested the "more than one guy", ebecause they can have "shifts" on the refinery (for a good pay of course, they sacrifice time for the org).

 

Don't mistake "automation" with "I don't got to do nothing". 

 

In EVE, autopilots will jump you to a stargate at 30km distance from them, then slowly crawl towards the gate and if you are a freighter, enjoy those 30km taking up to 10 minutes, since frieghters go at a snail's pace, about 10 m/s speeds.

 

But, if you MANUALLY warp your ship, you can warp to a stargate at 0km and immediately execute a jump. Thus, a hauler who flies a ship manually, will do the whole trip FAR FAR faster than a hauler who does auto-piloting.

 

Same rules should apply to DU's manufacturing. The automated feeding of materials = slower refining times on total. Manual refining = much faster.

 

And it SHOULD be that way for any form of automation, either factories or weapons firing automatically based on a scripted A.I.

 

But hey, that's just my opinion. I don't like auto-piloting my games.

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My plan is to start by mining and selling all of the resources to those who will be building refineries and factories, then to someone who plans to rent out dock space.  When the components and the space are available and I can afford it, I will build a vehicle.  After that, I expect to phase out the mining and focus on hauling materials.  Of course, I may need to change my plans if that does not work.

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That's the CORRECT way of doing things, but you should never underestimate of people's need for entitlement. Having only ONE person with refinery skills, means that you can end up with 100% lockdown on refining if that person goes AFK for weeks - or decides to coerce you into a bigger share of the profits.

 

Good point, don't put all your eggs in one basket as they say.

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I see the mining industry as the following process: Surveying and scanning for minerals -> extracting minerals from the ground -> refining minerals into usable materials -> selling and/or using the materials. Each step is an opportunity for profit. A land owner may be an amazing builder, but without the skills in this process, they will need to hire someone or an organisation with the expertise to do it right.

 

I foresee plenty of mining vessels that are essentially scanners and cargo holds with a couple of engines strapped on. They might need protection, but if they're working for the land owner, this would be less of an issue. I'm not sure if mining without permission would be possible, but if it is, a security detail would be very handy.

 

If acting manually will produce much greater rewards than automating a process, then some people will need skills in those areas. If an automated system works just as well as manual control, automating would be the better option in the long term, thus allowing builders to come into their own.

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I see the mining industry as the following process: Surveying and scanning for minerals -> extracting minerals from the ground -> refining minerals into usable materials -> selling and/or using the materials. Each step is an opportunity for profit. A land owner may be an amazing builder, but without the skills in this process, they will need to hire someone or an organisation with the expertise to do it right.

 

I foresee plenty of mining vessels that are essentially scanners and cargo holds with a couple of engines strapped on. They might need protection, but if they're working for the land owner, this would be less of an issue. I'm not sure if mining without permission would be possible, but if it is, a security detail would be very handy.

 

If acting manually will produce much greater rewards than automating a process, then some people will need skills in those areas. If an automated system works just as well as manual control, automating would be the better option in the long term, thus allowing builders to come into their own.

Maybe there will be haulers. There will be a lot of people involved in a big mining op (some mine, some haul, some scan, some overseer who knows what to mine next). There will be protection, ships and people. There will be pirates trying to rob them all or destroy the vessels. But there will not be an automated mining rif at all. NQ wants it to be manual and they want people to be involved in it, so that newbros get something to do.

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I personaly LOVE mining, back in my EVE days its mainly all I did, I would solo fly a mining fleet with orca's and hulks and strip mine entire belts, then sell the resources to my corp. I can see something like this happening here where ore rates are offered by organizations to their members and weekly mining ops are run by gangs to stock up on resources. Can't wait to get digging! :D

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I personaly LOVE mining, back in my EVE days its mainly all I did, I would solo fly a mining fleet with orca's and hulks and strip mine entire belts, then sell the resources to my corp. I can see something like this happening here where ore rates are offered by organizations to their members and weekly mining ops are run by gangs to stock up on resources. Can't wait to get digging! :D

Just keep in mind that resources are not infinite.

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I personaly LOVE mining, back in my EVE days its mainly all I did, I would solo fly a mining fleet with orca's and hulks and strip mine entire belts, then sell the resources to my corp. I can see something like this happening here where ore rates are offered by organizations to their members and weekly mining ops are run by gangs to stock up on resources. Can't wait to get digging! :D

Well, thing is you have to not be AFK to mine in DU. It's a tedious and hard work to be a miner when you have to be active to do it.

 

Kinda throws a wrench on the multiboxing miner's gears. :P

 

But on the plus side, you could build a ship with a refinery on it, so, yeah, mining ops can still happen, just not in a multiboxing way.

 

The second M in MMO stands for Multiplayer after all, not Multibox (like in EVE).

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