Haunty

I prefer real time skill training. I hate having to use items or build things I don't need just for the sake of getting to the next level.

Like I said in another thread on the same topic, we'll need some actual metrics (gathered in game and probably via polls or something) post-launch to see whether something like this would be worth it to NQ. The model itself seems sound, it's just that we don't know if the solution to the optimization problem it entails includes this kind of alternate model or not, without the requisite data.
 
Arguing based on gut-feeling whether there would be enough call for this to make it viable or not is a waste of time. In principle the concept is sound, and though a couple of valid concerns have been raised, I don't think they're insurmountable. Ultimately NQ's the one who has to run the numbers to figure out if it's worth pursuing.

Which is better, devaluing your own product by letting less-dedicated people play, or provide a better experience for all players?
 
You are making the argument that a significant slice of the potential player base will just opt not to play if there is no per-hour option. Sounds like you are one of those players, and given that you aren't a founder or a backer, that means that you aren't a customer. Why should they or any of us listen to you? 
 
"hey but it worked for someone else"
and NQ isn't CCCP. DU isn't EVE. this is a doozey of a false-equivalency.
 
Most of us are here to play the game we are paying for, we aren't here to play EVE.

Also. OP seems to think the devs will make more money if those "on the fence" players have a way to play per-hour, but the reality is that the number of players for whom the monthly subscription is a deal-breaker is very very small. The devs stand to lose only a handfull of players at a discounted rate by sticking with a monthly sub, but stand to lose a lot per-player of the people who would happily pay the monthly sub if that was the only option.
 
flat-out, the devs will lose money.
 
I'd rather they collect that money and use some of it to improve the game.

Sooo... what are we thinking the price point would be?
$15/month is what, a max of $0.50/hour? But that's probably a discount for bulk rate/advanced pay.
So... $0.75/hour?
I have a feeling the vast majority of DU players are going to be playing more than 30 hours per month.
I think the minimum amount of hours to make much of any progress at all in DU is going to be about 16 hours per month.
So, at best, people paying by hour might save 3 dollars per month.
People who are so strapped for cash that they cannot spare an extra 3 dollars per month are not going to be playing DU anyways.

Hate to break it to you, but the full subscription is a "fair price", even if you can only play one session per week. Compare it to other forms of leisure activity, it is not uncommon to blow the full price of the DU monthly subscription in just one session of other leisure activities. I find the price to be fair despite the fact that I'll be able to commit one, maybe two, evenings per-week to play at the most.
 
play or don't, that's up to you.
 
Not to mention, those of us who have the money where the price is no-object, often don't actually have the time to play a ton. Those of us who can actually afford to spend money on DAC's to use in contracts in-exchange for the stuff we'd have to grind for. The folks that actually do have the time to play tons and tons of hours (students, underemployed) woundn't be able to afford an hourly rate that would be player-footprint neutral.

There's MagicaVoxel, which is quite simple

Idea: Subtract all posts in this thread from everyone's post counts.

I prefer real time skill training. I hate having to use items or build things I don't need just for the sake of getting to the next level.

I don't think so, but if I was NQ I would only provide this with DACs, like 7 or 14-day DACs, and leave the direct subs monthly.

I don't think so, but if I was NQ I would only provide this with DACs, like 7 or 14-day DACs, and leave the direct subs monthly.

Space Engineers is one game you can practice with, it is more simple block building but can still roughly design things. Plus the default planet size is close to the same size as the starting planet in DU. Avorion and Empyrion are others.

*sigh*
 
I will say once more, that my argument is not against DAC per se. Yes, I don't like it. Yes, if I was making a game I would not choose it. But that is not in/my argument.
 
I can accept that NQ chose something with which I disagree and move on.
 
What is argued is; a) whether or not it can be turned into a p2w element, b ) how easily it can be abused/converted into a p2w element and how severe this will be and c) in case you don't like p2w elements, how will it be possible to prevent that.
 
That said, I will agree that by this point this has been discussed in depth. I am sure that NQ has seen all points and arguments and will proceed.....well we shall see how they will proceed.
 
PS
 
The alternative financial models (like b2p and f2p) have failed. So there is no arguing whether any new MMO, especially made by indie studios, should have a subscription or not. It should.

I think this has been discussed to death now. It is part of the pay model, it is done. I've seen few (two) complaints about DAC, there are more complaints about being a subscription.

I believe the true definition of pay to win is when the developers create items from thin air in exchange for a direct payment, bypassing normal player production or farming methods.
 
The downside to creating a Plex-like item in a brand new game is that there may not be the players to acquire the resources or items you may want to buy with your currency, the main issue however will be the limited supply in the beginning. It took CCP nearly ten years to remove the npc buy orders to maintain the markets and that was with a lot of faucets available to players.
 

The previous example does not constitute p2w to me. An organisation recouping losses faster by using DAC's does not give that organisation an advantage that can not also be gained in game by having players actually play the game.
 
The suggested fixes, while commendable for being off the top of the head, need a bit more thought: 
A, B. Limit DAC purchases per month. This can be taken two ways. One is the limit is per player which will prevent little as alts can be created with ease. The other is NQ only releases X number of DACs for purchase each month. This will raise the cost of DAC as they become a very limited resource, being bought up as soon as there is quota available. Those that get them first will have an advantage over everyone that did not get them in time. Nevermind that this decreases the effectiveness of one of the principle reasons for having DACs: to curb IRL blackmarket purchases of in game money. 
C. Tax the DACs. Would this not mean the quanta price will increase to compensate for this tax?
D. Regulating DAC's in circulation. Similar to A and B.
E. Delay on DAC to Quanta conversion. This is an interesting one. There will always be people willing to buy DAC, though with a bit more effort/ time a better price could be found for the same number of DACs.  Putting an artificial delay on a DAC purchase could mean a player does not get his subscription paid in time as the DAC "clears". I can see player brokers appearing to circumvent the delay in quanta payment (for a small fee of course), so again this would not have the desired effect.
 
Of course, these are just off the top of my head and I am no economist.

There's MagicaVoxel, which is quite simple

No wheeled vehicles. Hovercraft will be the ground vehicles. Wheeled vehicles could be possible in a later expansion after release.

Hacking your email account (used to reset your password) is more likely than hacking your password. 2-factor would help in that event, but you really want to make sure your email is secure and maybe use 2 factor on it, if available. Just in case you mess up and fall for a phishing scam.

No wheeled vehicles. Hovercraft will be the ground vehicles. Wheeled vehicles could be possible in a later expansion after release.

No wheeled vehicles. Hovercraft will be the ground vehicles. Wheeled vehicles could be possible in a later expansion after release.

I don't think it has anything to do with making DU stick around long term. Eve and WoW have been around for a long time with subscription, and the size of their player base isn't an issue. Actually Eve's player base is back to the level it was before they went to limited free-to-play. DACs are DU's free to play system. Even if you use one every 2 months or 3 months, you're still paying less. Plus NQ wants to provide quality support.
 
I'm against the idea of any IRL advertising.

"I reject your reality and substitute my own."
 
Those billboards in Sci-Fi movies are expertly designed and placed as part of the script. They contribute to the story and lore. What you're thinking of are the lame product placement ads in TV shows and low budget movies where heroes are obviously driving a certain brand of car or drinking a certain brand of soft drink. In other words, you're paying to watch advertisements that are shoved in your face.
 
If I pay for a product or service, and I'm forced to see advertisements, I'll stop paying.
 
Advertisements have a place, like in hell, or on toilet paper. Not in a universe that's being created from the ground up. Hopefully we get that part right.

The planets in game are not life size, I believe the starting planet is 100km in diameter, if that helps. That is the same size as the planets in Space Engineers and there aren't any server issues in regards to modified planets and asteroids even without the zoning tech that DU has (SE is open-source btw), in SE the issue is mainly with active floating player-made constructs that does not scale; but in DU the player constructs use the same voxel tech as the planets. I don't know any of the technical stuff so that's just my outside observation. Hope you can get some more detailed answers.

I don't think it has anything to do with making DU stick around long term. Eve and WoW have been around for a long time with subscription, and the size of their player base isn't an issue. Actually Eve's player base is back to the level it was before they went to limited free-to-play. DACs are DU's free to play system. Even if you use one every 2 months or 3 months, you're still paying less. Plus NQ wants to provide quality support.
 
I'm against the idea of any IRL advertising.