Ving

I do not like the wait the option is presented, clearly NQ is using the "Remove Schematics" as the bait or carrot at the end of the stick, my question is simple why make us go threw the drill of reducing construction and limiting orgs and such, why make us go threw the drill of buying Schematics, why make us go threw the drill of terrain reset and the list goes on and on. Why did you decide to turn your early backers and supports into unpaid testers, better yet Testers that have to pay NQ to test your game. 

So my choices are loose everything Talents, Constructs, Quanta so a new player can do WHAT. Play the game like I did, no the can not I played for 2 years, so a new player should never be able to walk in the door and be equal to me simple because you "Release The Game". 

Did the NEW PLAYER pay you for 10 accounts for 2 years at 9.99 a month NO
Did the NEW PLAYER  have to learn how to use Schematics and now UNLEARN how to use Schematics NO
Did the NEW PLAYER spend hours DIGGING their base out of the dirt after a Terrian reset NO
Did the NEW PLAYER have to play with and countless Towers, Game Errors and Bugs and still played the game NO
 
Why the hell  Do you OWE this NEW PALYER anything when in fact YOU NQ owe US those that are here NOW, those that Play NOW, those that paid you NOW those that will come back when you screw us ONCE AGAIN for a pipe dream of the Magical NEW PLAYER that you cant seem to get to come to the game now but for some reason they will at RELEASE. So you Lied about Sancturary to I guess that the next statement that I am waiting to hear. Remember the lie Sanctuary will never be wipe and will always be save.
 
And for the record, you have no idea who, what or HOW MANY ....NEW PLAYERs you are going to get if any. If so Where are they NOW...
 
 

Where did JC say there would be a wipe? 
 
What he actually said was, here (1:30) the reason for a wipe would be "(there is) something that we need to fix and there is no other but to wipe to fix it. I don't see anything like that coming... it's something that would happen if we really had no choice..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOp9nDzkxpc
 
Then he said here (58:26), when they were considering a terrain wipe for Alioth, "there would be a gold rush to get back to whatever you wanted. That's actually not a good idea. We decided that we would rather not do that. There has already been a lot of investment made by a lot of people to terraform very very substantial parts of the planets... It would be a very bad thing to say 'sorry guys, restart from scratch.'" And that was just on a terrain wipe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai3Kk37ntgg
 
Sure, NQ re-neged on the terrain wipe. (We all saw how that went.) It doesn't mean it's cool to reneg on game wipe as well.
 Better to have a few rich people, than no people at all. 

Lots of very good reasons.
 
I'm trying to stick it out, but NQ are making it harder and harder.
 
Auto-mining is just a chore, not fun at all, plus since demeter launch the rocks spawn fails on my mining cores around 43% of the time on average. The profit is already slim as it is, but with persistent bugs like this it's very demoralising. NQ also refuse to reimburse the lost ore, worth millions, even with daily screenshot logs of calibration failures showing the lost amounts.
 
Possibly the straw to break the camel's back...

Thank you for the quick response and the changes. These numbers make a lot more sense.
 
However, I still think that there should also be some automatic org slots based on membership, e.g. for every member of an org the org gets 10 or 20 slots automatically (without reducing the new numbers for personal and org slots).

This will be enough cores to satisfy most people's needs. I still don't like the random delete part for org cores if someone removes support  Most recently added cores would be better I think! it would also be better is if Org membership played a part in the total instead of just org slots.

Thank you for the quick response and the changes. These numbers make a lot more sense.
 
However, I still think that there should also be some automatic org slots based on membership, e.g. for every member of an org the org gets 10 or 20 slots automatically (without reducing the new numbers for personal and org slots).

Thank you for the quick response and the changes. These numbers make a lot more sense.
 
However, I still think that there should also be some automatic org slots based on membership, e.g. for every member of an org the org gets 10 or 20 slots automatically (without reducing the new numbers for personal and org slots).

Thank you for the quick response and the changes. These numbers make a lot more sense.
 
However, I still think that there should also be some automatic org slots based on membership, e.g. for every member of an org the org gets 10 or 20 slots automatically (without reducing the new numbers for personal and org slots).

I'm honestly starting to wonder if the game designers have any real vision for this game or are just trying to put it on life support until they can clean up the bugs enough to release and sell it off.  A year ago the rules were changed so I couldn't do big industry.  Go mine instead.  Then mining is taken away.  Put up mining towers instead and spend your time VR'ing to them to keep production going.  Now core limits are going to threaten that and my ability to base build.  What's left?  Run missions AFK for hours on end?  That's no fun.  The PVP is even more boring.  Asteroid mining is pretty much one day a week.  Instead of taking things away we need new end game content that will pull people away from building.  New challenges.   Open up new solar systems.  Invent new elements that open up new game mechanics.  If end game is really only a 6 month effort for an experienced gamer how do we expect to build a large player base?  People will accept nerfs of existing mechanics if new stuff comes along to replace it.  That's not happening right now.

Novaquark,

Have you even considered the fact that by recalibrating your game to your technical/ financial needs, you're also recalibrating our projects and our dreams ? Sure, you're faced with hard limits - straight from the board room, I'd wager - but could you please at least show some tact in your communication, spare a little mercy to your playerbase, show some empathy for our efforts ? Another radical Alpha-level change in a Beta state designed to ease the server load, this org core limit exposes leaders and designers to the whim of their members with a two weeks notice, random core abandonment, no fast-tear-down system and an incomplete RDMS, while cores are now mandatory for ressource gathering.
 
After promising us the new Oasis, back in the days where you needed our support, you took the Dual Universe away from us: every step you've made since Beta shows this world firmly belongs to you, not us. And you know what ? FINE, I get it, it is what it is, JC's Grandiose Vision was too expensive, welcome to Abu's Discount Metaverse.
 
But please be more careful as you thread on our dreams.

So this is an interesting question which I will attempt to answer to the best of my ability...
 
I'm really fighting the urge to make the "It never was" meme here, but I'm sure one of you will do that for me soon enough.
The reality here is that you never actually were making 1/8th or 1/16th slopes, you've been creating what is the closest approximation of that.
 
In the old system, we used 253 points. In the new system, we use 252 points. This means that in the old system, a single voxel was: 84.3333333333333 (recurring) points.
84.333 also does not divide by 8, 16, 32, or 64.

In fact, in the old system you couldn't really reliably cut a voxel in half to an exact precision, and even a single voxel was not precise. As for example:
84.333 / 2 = 42.166 (in reality this would have been 42 because we don't store decimals) 84.333 / 4 = 21.083 (in reality this would have been 21 because we don't store decimals) 84.333 / 8 = 10.541 (in reality this would have been 11 because we don't store decimals) 84.333 / 16 = 5.270 (in reality this would have been 5 because we don't store decimals) 84.333 / 32 = 2.635 (in reality this would have been 3 because we don't store decimals) 84.333 / 64 = 1.317 (in reality this would have been 1 because we don't store decimals) Sure, the difference is so negligible that you can't see it by eye. But that's essentially the same in the new system as the new pattern looks like this:
84 / 2 = 42 exactly 84 / 4 = 21 exactly 84 / 8 = 10.5 (in reality this would be either 10 or 11 again because we don't store decimals) 84 / 16 = 5.25 (in reality this would be 5 again because we don't store decimals) 84 / 32 = 2.625 (in reality this would be 3 again because we don't store decimals) 84 / 64 = 1.315 (in reality this would be 1 again because we don't store decimals) Now, if we had changed the division to 64 instead of 84.333 you could expect the following to happen to all currently existing constructs:
A loss of precision around 25% Every existing voxel would have lost around 25% of its available detail. You would see huge changes in your designs and most existing designs would likely loose a lot of their detail. Curves would be less curvy, more blocky. But you would have access to a 1/8 slope. With the new division of 84 instead of 84.333, you can expect the following:
The precision loss is only 0.395% Every voxel will look near enough exactly the same, except for a few edge case ones. You likely not see any noticeable change in your existing designs. Curves are still curvy. But your 1/8 slope might be a bit wonky, and its probably better to adjust to 1/7.  In short, the precision cost of changing to 1/64 is not worth it. It really isn't. Trust me, we've looked. It's ugly.

I can already see the new question brewing in your minds: Why didn't you increase it to 128 per voxel?
Sure, this could increase the detail and be more divisible, however it also doesn't fit inside a single byte. So now we are talking about every single construct in the game taking up twice as much in terms of data. And if you feel your cache is big now, you really don't want to know what its like with double the resolution of voxels.  

We could perhaps consider introducing a pseudo 1/64 grid mode further down the road, which would give you a 1/64 grid. However it will still not actually place a vertex at a 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, 1/64 position. It would place it at its closest available position.

Also, to answer the question about the scale at which the tool works. No, it will always be 1.5vx in each direction from the vertices point of origin.
I thought maximum adjustment range on this image made that quite clear, but perhaps that was an error on my part:


I highly recommend you try it before you cast to much judgement on it, as someone who's tinkered with voxels for a long time. I absolutely love using the tool.
I find myself mostly using Grid 2 and Grid 7, using the control key to make bigger jumps.
 
I hope this answers some of the burning questions you all have.
I wish you all a wonderful day, and look forward to seeing what you will all create with it.
- Deckard

The tool in action looks great, but the new numbering system seems like a solution to a technical problem at the expense of logic and usability.
 
Using steps of 2-4-8-16-32-64 etc (which we can do with the current reactors) makes it very easy to plan shapes and just double the precision each time you need a finer line for instance.
 
Having 3 different scales 2-4 steps, 6-12 steps, and 21-42-84 steps within the same system seems like it will be a pain to use when scaling shapes up / down. At the moment I draw everything on graph paper and just select the precision that will allow me to create the shapes I want. Usually 16 is enough.
 
I can't imagine how I would be able to do this when it would need to show 3 different scales that aren't divisible by each other. 
 
Is there no way you can make it work with a geometric progression? It works with reactors now, so what's the problem continuing this way?
 
 

To give a simple example: If I've built a shape that uses 4 steps/voxel, but I then want to make a smaller version that is half the dimensions I can't do it...none of the Grids provided are divisible by 8.
 
The only way to get close would be to jump up to 84 steps and use 10 or 11 to approximate an 1/8 step. This just seems crazy tbh, or am I misunderstanding how this works?

The tool in action looks great, but the new numbering system seems like a solution to a technical problem at the expense of logic and usability.
 
Using steps of 2-4-8-16-32-64 etc (which we can do with the current reactors) makes it very easy to plan shapes and just double the precision each time you need a finer line for instance.
 
Having 3 different scales 2-4 steps, 6-12 steps, and 21-42-84 steps within the same system seems like it will be a pain to use when scaling shapes up / down. At the moment I draw everything on graph paper and just select the precision that will allow me to create the shapes I want. Usually 16 is enough.
 
I can't imagine how I would be able to do this when it would need to show 3 different scales that aren't divisible by each other. 
 
Is there no way you can make it work with a geometric progression? It works with reactors now, so what's the problem continuing this way?
 
 

This is a great example of "push" design -- you're being forced to do something boring and monotonous so that you can pay upkeep and not lose your stuff.
 
It's all stick, no carrot. Don't pay taxes, lose your stuff. Don't calibrate, lose ore income, maybe to the point you can't pay taxes. There's no reward, just maintenance and punishment.
 
They actually did something amazing in turning the mole simulator into something even more soul-crushing and shallow.  
 
With MUs, owning territory isn't optional, it's fundamental for anyone that wants ore income. Therefore, the heavy-handed maintenance loop is also fundamental. 
 
Taxes would be easier to deal with if there were ample options for paying them -- more than one extremely extremely boring mission type and daily calibration chores. It should feel like players actually have choices, not that they are playing the game according to a script NQ creates. 
 
If they don't fire the game design interns making choices like "weekly taxes" and "calibration mini-game" I don't see why they are even bothering trying to push to release...because as harsh as we alpha players can be, players will be more harsh come release. Only they won't waste time whining on a forum like me, they'll cancel their sub and never come back. 

Background / Summary
I backed DU early on and have three accounts - honestly, I tried to give my beta keys away to friends, but no one wanted them.  So, I have a character dedicated to mining / refining, one to piloting, and one to industry.  All three have some combination of radar, gunnery, and ammo skills.  Each of them is around 50M skill points.
 
My play time prior to Demeter could be classified into three categories, active, passive, and mindless.  The active playtime involved building, pvp, asteroid mining, or using the markets.  I’m sure most of you reading this know the autopilot time as you scanned an asteroid or traveled to a planet.  This is the passive; dare I say AFK time.   What I call mindless time includes digging around in an unclaimed tile, you could simply zone out, watch a video, or listen to music.  I liked this time, it was relaxing, easy, and still offered progression without any risk.
 
Prior to Demeter, On average, I spent about 3 hours each day playing DU.  About half of this time was active or mindless mining and the other half was some mix of ship building, industry, or solo pvp.  Occasionally, I would spend an entire session repairing my ship because...well you dicks with the giant towers know why.
 
On an average day, I would generate $46M.  About half was ground mining and the other half Asteroid mining.  This worked out to about $30M / hour of money making activity.

With the advent of Demeter, the mindless playtime has disappeared.  My playtime has shifted to only two categories and the overwhelming majority of my playtime is now active and focused on three tasks - calibrating, hauling ore, and picking up ore from the bonus ground spawn.  The passive time is almost non-existent and involves flying 60km on the same planet.
 
After playing the minigame 15 times, trudging out to some random spot to collect between 2 and 4k ore, and then doing my best impression of a garbage man picking up all the auto-ore from 14 containers, I generate on average $10M over 90 minutes or about $6.7M / hour.  I could probably generate $30M / hour asteroid mining again but that would be at an opportunity cost of the passive ore mining or I would have to fully dedicate my entire 3 hour play time to money making activities.
 
The real takeaway here is that my money making active playtime has shifted from scanning and mining to babysitting autominers and picking up ground ore - both steps down in the level of fun and engagement. Sure, I could go back to asteroid mining exclusively and will likely get to that point but for the purposes of this dsicussion, I focused on really exercising the auto mining system.  
Additionally, to keep the automiers at a reasonable level (not even optimal) I have had to set timers, reminders, and build a spreadsheet to track the decay so I’m hitting the right autominers at the right times and carefully balancing my calibration charges.  While I’m perfectly capable of managing all this, it is quite annoying and doesn’t lead to long term engaging gameplay.
At the current market rates, I’m able to generate about $5M per tile per week.   My tiles are probably slightly above average but are all T1 and similar to most of everything else I have seen around Alioth - so nothing special here.  
 
I have seen several posts of people complaining the taxes are too high and hopefully the next section will help show how to make automining profitable.
 

Setup
I put some of the refunded mining skills into the “on deploy” auto mining skills on my main mining character and had all three characters train to 4 4 3 3 (Calibration Charge Optimization / Efficiency at 4 and Improved versions at 3).  So, as far as investment into auto mining goes, I’m pretty deep but not outside of what most folks can do with a week of skill training.  This gives the three characters the ability to comfortably manage 60+ autominers across 14 territories.   A single character with 10 days of training can easily handle 7 territories - perhaps not at a perfectly optimal level but enough for a good profit margin.
 
While I was fortunate enough to have some scanners already available, I haven't found many territories that couldn't turn a profit with proper management.  The tiles that had 500 of one ore are best as you can get 4 miners working that tile with no leftover.  But most tiles offered at least 3 full miners and some partial miners.  The proximity bonus is key so simply picking a spot that has 7 open tiles will almost always yield a profit.
 
I currently have 14 T1 Territories with 7 being very bauxite heavy and the other 7 evenly distributed across all 4 T1 ore types.  There are 63 autominers currently running with the lowest base rate being 70 and the highest being 125.  With the territory bonus, the optimal rate ranges from 126 to 226 per hour with most clustered at 183 per hour.
 
For production bonus purposes, the tiles are clustered around a center which means one tile gets a 60% bump and all others get a 30% bump.
 
In order to maintain this, I do need to log in every day so I don’t overcap my calibration charges.  My characters generate 5.7 calibration charges per day and if I don’t use them every day, I lose 1.4 charges.  With current skills I can refill between 60% and 72% if I get lucky with the minigame.  If I don't get lucky, it's around 57% which means I need to calibrate when a mining unit decays to between 30% and 50%.  While I may over cap the 100%, I found calibrating when the unit is between 40% and 45% is the safest time.  The tracking sheet below highlight the units that need adjusting.
 
Given the base rate of 125 for most of the miners, I can usually get 4 full miners on a tile and one partial. On the 60% bonus tile I see around 1.1KL / hr of total ore and my lowest tile currently generating around 500 L / hr.  Optimal generation is around 700 L / hr on average.  I have also found that unless the unit is on a 60% tile, a rate below 90 would be better deployed elsewhere as it relates to spending calibration charges - there is something to be said about convenience so I have a few mining below that rate, but they are lower priority to calibrate.
 
Bonus Ore
Each day I spend about 15 calibration points and get an average of 3k bonus ore which works out to 45,000 L in bonus ore or about $2M income.  Getting the bonus ore is relatively quick but tedious and feels like a chore.  The bonus ore makes up 20% of the weekly income so it is unfortunately required to maximize the tile.  Without the bonus ore, I would still see a profit but it would reduce down to $44M / week (still not bad).
 
Sample Tracking

 
 
Financial Analysis
Initial Investment
Territory Unit: $175k -> $2.45M
Territory Claim Fee: $500k -> $7M
Small Static Core: 12K -> $168K
Basic Mining Unit L: $175K -> $11M
Container L: $300K -> $4.2M
-------------------------------------
Total Investment: $24,800,000
Time to setup: 8 Hours
 
I should note I have a ship with two L containers that handles the logistics.  This ship costs about $15M.
 
 
Maintenance Costs
Nitron Fuel: $70,000 / week
Scrap for those unexpected times:  $250,000 / week
Territory Tax: $1,000,000 / week -> $14,000,000 / week
-------------------------------------
Total Maintenance per week: $14,320,000
Maintenance Time: 90 minutes / day or 10 hours each week
 
 
Income
Raw Sales: $72,000,000
 
 
Balance Sheet (Week to Week expectation)
Expenses: $14,320,000
Income: $72,000,000
-------------------------------------
Net: $57,680,000
 
Given the initial investment of $24,800,000, I fully covered this investment in 4 days and had a first week pure profit of about $16,600,000.  
This works out to a little over $1.7M / Hour of play time in the first week. I expect around $6M / hour of playtime next week
 
Territory Summary

 
Daily Log

 
 
 
Bugs
Can’t access the Calibration menu that tells me things like when it was last calibrated and the location of the surface ore pop if I have no calibration charges Tooltip on Adjacency doesn’t have a % indicator -  should be  “a 30% bonus” not "a 30 bonus" The small 50L of ore are physically much smaller than the normal surface rocks that only deliver 20L of ore The harvest time on the bonus ore is not scaled with the regular surface ore - it takes less time to harvest the 50L and 150L rocks than it does the normal 20L ore The bonus rocks are labeled incorrectly, they show up as their pure counterparts instead of the raw ore label; Aluminum Rock vs Bauxite Rock
Improvement Suggestions
As mentioned in the Q&A, the transition screens on the minigame are painfully slow.  Can we eliminate or speed them up? The current reasonable cap of calibration charges is 9.  You can get more by investing more skill points but 9 feels like where most folks will end up given there are far more interesting skills to train.  I’d like to see this cap at least doubled if not tripled (or removed all together, why cap it?)  If I decide not to play for a few days, I over cap and there is an opportunity loss. Where can I see my current calibration charges?  Or is the Autominer UI the only spot?  I’d like to be able to see the current calibration charges on some character screen. The minigame is prone to RNG which causes a reduction in income for things that are outside of my control.  Could we have some of the mining unit skills affect the size off the tools in the minigame so that if I choose to invest points in those skills, I see my efforts less affected by RNG? The bonus ore is nice for the minigame but it's a chore to go out and collect it.  Can we have it simply deposited into the container The surface rocks offer a performant way to create a small faucet and give new players a way to earn money.  However, the way they are designed is both tedious to gather and painful to look at. Could we instead have larger nodes that leverage the mining talents spawn on the surface and offer the same amount of ore just more concentrated?  We could even add a piece of equipment that allows me to scan my territory to identify these pockets or leverage the territory scanner.
 

The mining mini-game such bad gameplay.  Apart from the fact that the mini-game is just tedious, it's also completely RNG so sometimes we get 4k rocks and sometimes 1k, and on top of that half the time is flat out doesn't work and gives no rocks.
 
Please fix the bugs, and re-work the gameplay so it's not so demoralising. I'm really getting fed up of logging in to just be disappointed by the randomness of it all.
 
Ideally, get rid of the mini game and the RNG completely - make calibrate a button you press to keep efficiency up and spawn surface rocks at 100% each time.
 
It's frustrating enough to make a profit the way things are atm, never mind farm enough ore to actually build something.
 
- The previous manual mining system worked on positive reinforcement: time put in = amount of ore gained, and finding the ore was a predictable and rewarding mini-game.
- Current mining unit is an RNG mini-game, that is time gated, and only rewards small amounts of ore (if it actually works!), which is more along the lines of negative reinforcement. It just annoys me every time I do it because it's not optimal, and no amount of extra effort/time can change that.
 
A real step backwards in core DU gameplay.
 
 

Unhappy.
 
Tax system / auto mining is a daily chore that is not fun. On top of that it's currently buggy af - every day half of my mining units fail to produce surface ore due to bugs. I've lost more  than the weekly upkeep of a tile just in lost ore.
 
Upcoming voxel changes. The Complexity Chunk tool is very inconsistent. If they go live with this in a future, and don't give us snap-to functionality in the vertex editor, then voxelmancy will nerfed.
 
Upcoming brake changes. I altered a bunch of ships, and built some new ones, around the brake changes on PTS. In the AMA they said they've changed it yet again, and in a more negative way from my perspective (have to face up now, rather than forward, meaning no more hiding them under voxels except for the front). More ships made useless, or ugly.
 
Upcoming wipe. Looks more and more likely from NQs comments, and consistent economy bugs that they have ignored. We were told no wipe after beta! More wasted time and effort.
 
In summary, not much fun left in the game, and most areas of the gameplay now feel negative due to poorly implemented 'fixes' (/future fixes) aimed at reducing their operating costs, rather than changes based on improving gameplay.
 
 
 

Unhappy.
 
Tax system / auto mining is a daily chore that is not fun. On top of that it's currently buggy af - every day half of my mining units fail to produce surface ore due to bugs. I've lost more  than the weekly upkeep of a tile just in lost ore.
 
Upcoming voxel changes. The Complexity Chunk tool is very inconsistent. If they go live with this in a future, and don't give us snap-to functionality in the vertex editor, then voxelmancy will nerfed.
 
Upcoming brake changes. I altered a bunch of ships, and built some new ones, around the brake changes on PTS. In the AMA they said they've changed it yet again, and in a more negative way from my perspective (have to face up now, rather than forward, meaning no more hiding them under voxels except for the front). More ships made useless, or ugly.
 
Upcoming wipe. Looks more and more likely from NQs comments, and consistent economy bugs that they have ignored. We were told no wipe after beta! More wasted time and effort.
 
In summary, not much fun left in the game, and most areas of the gameplay now feel negative due to poorly implemented 'fixes' (/future fixes) aimed at reducing their operating costs, rather than changes based on improving gameplay.
 
 
 

The mining mini-game such bad gameplay.  Apart from the fact that the mini-game is just tedious, it's also completely RNG so sometimes we get 4k rocks and sometimes 1k, and on top of that half the time is flat out doesn't work and gives no rocks.
 
Please fix the bugs, and re-work the gameplay so it's not so demoralising. I'm really getting fed up of logging in to just be disappointed by the randomness of it all.
 
Ideally, get rid of the mini game and the RNG completely - make calibrate a button you press to keep efficiency up and spawn surface rocks at 100% each time.
 
It's frustrating enough to make a profit the way things are atm, never mind farm enough ore to actually build something.
 
- The previous manual mining system worked on positive reinforcement: time put in = amount of ore gained, and finding the ore was a predictable and rewarding mini-game.
- Current mining unit is an RNG mini-game, that is time gated, and only rewards small amounts of ore (if it actually works!), which is more along the lines of negative reinforcement. It just annoys me every time I do it because it's not optimal, and no amount of extra effort/time can change that.
 
A real step backwards in core DU gameplay.
 
 

The mining mini-game such bad gameplay.  Apart from the fact that the mini-game is just tedious, it's also completely RNG so sometimes we get 4k rocks and sometimes 1k, and on top of that half the time is flat out doesn't work and gives no rocks.
 
Please fix the bugs, and re-work the gameplay so it's not so demoralising. I'm really getting fed up of logging in to just be disappointed by the randomness of it all.
 
Ideally, get rid of the mini game and the RNG completely - make calibrate a button you press to keep efficiency up and spawn surface rocks at 100% each time.
 
It's frustrating enough to make a profit the way things are atm, never mind farm enough ore to actually build something.
 
- The previous manual mining system worked on positive reinforcement: time put in = amount of ore gained, and finding the ore was a predictable and rewarding mini-game.
- Current mining unit is an RNG mini-game, that is time gated, and only rewards small amounts of ore (if it actually works!), which is more along the lines of negative reinforcement. It just annoys me every time I do it because it's not optimal, and no amount of extra effort/time can change that.
 
A real step backwards in core DU gameplay.
 
 

The mining mini-game such bad gameplay.  Apart from the fact that the mini-game is just tedious, it's also completely RNG so sometimes we get 4k rocks and sometimes 1k, and on top of that half the time is flat out doesn't work and gives no rocks.
 
Please fix the bugs, and re-work the gameplay so it's not so demoralising. I'm really getting fed up of logging in to just be disappointed by the randomness of it all.
 
Ideally, get rid of the mini game and the RNG completely - make calibrate a button you press to keep efficiency up and spawn surface rocks at 100% each time.
 
It's frustrating enough to make a profit the way things are atm, never mind farm enough ore to actually build something.
 
- The previous manual mining system worked on positive reinforcement: time put in = amount of ore gained, and finding the ore was a predictable and rewarding mini-game.
- Current mining unit is an RNG mini-game, that is time gated, and only rewards small amounts of ore (if it actually works!), which is more along the lines of negative reinforcement. It just annoys me every time I do it because it's not optimal, and no amount of extra effort/time can change that.
 
A real step backwards in core DU gameplay.
 
 

The mining mini-game such bad gameplay.  Apart from the fact that the mini-game is just tedious, it's also completely RNG so sometimes we get 4k rocks and sometimes 1k, and on top of that half the time is flat out doesn't work and gives no rocks.
 
Please fix the bugs, and re-work the gameplay so it's not so demoralising. I'm really getting fed up of logging in to just be disappointed by the randomness of it all.
 
Ideally, get rid of the mini game and the RNG completely - make calibrate a button you press to keep efficiency up and spawn surface rocks at 100% each time.
 
It's frustrating enough to make a profit the way things are atm, never mind farm enough ore to actually build something.
 
- The previous manual mining system worked on positive reinforcement: time put in = amount of ore gained, and finding the ore was a predictable and rewarding mini-game.
- Current mining unit is an RNG mini-game, that is time gated, and only rewards small amounts of ore (if it actually works!), which is more along the lines of negative reinforcement. It just annoys me every time I do it because it's not optimal, and no amount of extra effort/time can change that.
 
A real step backwards in core DU gameplay.
 
 

The mining mini-game such bad gameplay.  Apart from the fact that the mini-game is just tedious, it's also completely RNG so sometimes we get 4k rocks and sometimes 1k, and on top of that half the time is flat out doesn't work and gives no rocks.
 
Please fix the bugs, and re-work the gameplay so it's not so demoralising. I'm really getting fed up of logging in to just be disappointed by the randomness of it all.
 
Ideally, get rid of the mini game and the RNG completely - make calibrate a button you press to keep efficiency up and spawn surface rocks at 100% each time.
 
It's frustrating enough to make a profit the way things are atm, never mind farm enough ore to actually build something.
 
- The previous manual mining system worked on positive reinforcement: time put in = amount of ore gained, and finding the ore was a predictable and rewarding mini-game.
- Current mining unit is an RNG mini-game, that is time gated, and only rewards small amounts of ore (if it actually works!), which is more along the lines of negative reinforcement. It just annoys me every time I do it because it's not optimal, and no amount of extra effort/time can change that.
 
A real step backwards in core DU gameplay.
 
 

The mining mini-game such bad gameplay.  Apart from the fact that the mini-game is just tedious, it's also completely RNG so sometimes we get 4k rocks and sometimes 1k, and on top of that half the time is flat out doesn't work and gives no rocks.
 
Please fix the bugs, and re-work the gameplay so it's not so demoralising. I'm really getting fed up of logging in to just be disappointed by the randomness of it all.
 
Ideally, get rid of the mini game and the RNG completely - make calibrate a button you press to keep efficiency up and spawn surface rocks at 100% each time.
 
It's frustrating enough to make a profit the way things are atm, never mind farm enough ore to actually build something.
 
- The previous manual mining system worked on positive reinforcement: time put in = amount of ore gained, and finding the ore was a predictable and rewarding mini-game.
- Current mining unit is an RNG mini-game, that is time gated, and only rewards small amounts of ore (if it actually works!), which is more along the lines of negative reinforcement. It just annoys me every time I do it because it's not optimal, and no amount of extra effort/time can change that.
 
A real step backwards in core DU gameplay.