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KingofPR

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  1. Like
    KingofPR reacted to NQ-Naerais in November DevBlog 2: Element Destruction   
    Naunet running by with a quick edit for clarity: Element Destruction will be applied to all damages sustained, both in and outside of PvP battles.
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Draw your weapons and get ready to shoot first! In today’s Dual Universe Dev Blog we will discuss an upcoming PvP feature: Element Destruction.
     
    In its current iteration, the feature works rather simply. Once destroyed, an Element can be restored indefinitely. There is currently no way for a crafted Element to disappear from the game unless it’s done intentionally. This poses a problem in the dynamics of the economy. In the real world, most purchased goods will inevitably need to be replaced. This helps to fuel the economy by creating a steady demand of goods. And, as in the real world, Dual Universe relies on a strong supply and demand chain for its economy to thrive. 
     
    To facilitate this, we’re making some changes to Elements that will not only give them value as a commodity on the Market but also add some exciting layers of strategy in how they are manufactured and used by discerning pilots who won’t settle for anything less than the best on their prized ships. 
     
    Let’s take a closer look at the incoming changes.  
     
    ELEMENTS DESTRUCTION
     
    When an Element on your ship is damaged in combat, can go next to it and repair it using scrap. If destroyed, you can also restore it completely. The change we’re making will limit the number of times an Elements can be restored, i.e. three times for an Engine and five times for a Container. Once an Element has hit its maximum amount of restores, it is Destroyed and can’t be repaired anymore.
     
    This will be less brutal than an immediate destruction, allowing you to manage a critical situation during combat, yet give you the opportunity to plan for a long-term replacement strategy as your restore counter is approaching the limit. Getting low on the restore counter for an engine? Swap it for a brand-new one at the next station. 
     
    An Element which has been restored once or more will be allowed to be brought back into a player’s inventory, but  please keep the following points in mind:
    This Element will be marked as a Modified Element. As such, it cannot be sold on Markets or used in Blueprints This Element can be bartered. Unlike certain other modified elements, the restoration count cannot be reset. The number of times an Element can be repaired depends solely on the nature of the Element.  
    Note that this is a first step. We may introduce other forms of degradation in the future, possibly impacting Element performance. Another important thing to note is that when an Element of type “Container” is fully destroyed, everything it contains is destroyed as well. This includes all types of fuel and ammo. 
     
    Tier 2+ Elements and Industry Units
    To push this logic even further, we introduced the idea of a new class of elements with better stats, by extending some existing elements with variants into higher tiers. This will impact Engines, Weapons and Radars to start with, and we will also make a push for Containers and Control Units a bit later. 
     
    In any real world industry, you have room for producers specializing in high-end products with better returns, or low-end products with higher volumes. This is what the addition of Tier 2+ Elements will bring to the table. We envision a future where Tier 2-5 engines will become the norm for performance-savvy players because of their better stats while Tier 1 will remain a commodity that is basically good enough for most players who don’t care about the stat boost. This adds variation to the gameplay and will certainly be a factor in PvP and efficiency-oriented logistic operations. 
     
    Note that only Tier 2 Industry Units will be able to produce Tier 2 Elements, the same for Tier 3 and so forth. Industry Units of higher tiers will be considerably more expensive to produce and/or buy.
     
    Element perma-destruction
    A deployed Element that has been destroyed cannot be brought into the inventory. This Element is totally non-functional and can only be deleted or Replaced. 
     
    When Replacing an element, all custom properties and settings are maintained. This action will consume an Element of the same type in the player’s active inventory, as it would do with an Element that was deployed standard. Of course, we will introduce a proper tool to replace your Elements to prevent the need for reconfiguration when you’re swapping in a fresh new one. This should help to create a healthy level of demand as PVP increasingly heats up across the Universe.  

    Weapon limitation by core size, and better hit formula
    Speaking of PVP, we want to address some imbalances in general around PvP. 
     
    Several things are on the way to address this, some of which might affect your ship designs:
    Limitation of weapon sizes based on the core size, no more L weapons strapped onto an XS core unit. Previously, the probability to hit another ship was based on the size of its core. From now on, that probability will use the surface of the ship that's visible from the view of the shooter as defined by the cross-section of the ship from that same point of view. In other words, the surface of the ship exposed to your weapons will matter and generate more damage. That way, building a borg cube will simply not be efficient and will expose you to greater damage risk.  Radar lock range unification: Instead of having each radar lock different core unit sizes at different ranges, every radar will now have a global lock range at which it locks all targets. Smaller radars will now lock at lower ranges, but retain their faster lock times while larger radars will lock slower but at greater distances. Unlike weapons, there will not be any further core-based restrictions on radar placement.  
    SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS
    As always, we encourage you to share your thoughts about these changes. We appreciate your support and look to your constructive feedback to help us make Dual Universe the absolute best it can be. 
     


    **Edit note: Clarified RESTORE vs REPAIR verbiage
  2. Like
    KingofPR got a reaction from Storm in A less costly way of killing you're enemy(Terrorist attacks)   
    Ok so lets say you want to rule you're nation by force but you cant afford a head on battle so you go insurgent style with you're group and destroy the enemys most important buildings with Suicide ship(cars?)or Just simple bombs.This could also be used againts the enemys supporters and stuff.(Please critize if you want as long as it is constructive)
  3. Like
    KingofPR reacted to Kytheum in The Empire   
  4. Like
    KingofPR reacted to Cybrex in So about that new website...   
    Yeah, that looks pretty swanky. Good job guys.
     
    http://www.dualthegame.com/en/
  5. Like
    KingofPR reacted to Elildar in Tree harvesting   
    We saw beautiful forests. We saw ground mining. But we didn't see tree harvesting, and as we know, it should be on the alpha.
     
    So, I have some questions regarding trees:
    1. Are trees made out of voxels like the ground, or like elements, or something else?
    2. When a player harvest a tree, is it done like mining? Does all the tree disapear or just one chunk?
    3. If only one chunk disapear, how to reach the top of the tree? Does the top fall to the ground or stay like a mountain?
     
    These questions may look weird, but I may have some ideas depending on the answer.
  6. Like
    KingofPR reacted to NQ-Nyzaltar in The Church Of Jay Cee!   
    Again, satire is perfectly fine, as long as you don't bring something controversial from real life in it. 
    The moment you bring something controversial from real life into the game, you can expect problems from the real life pointing their nose sooner or later.
    The reasonable approach in this case is "better preventing it than making control damage once it's done, especially if it was expectable".
    That's why it's a common rule in MMORPGs to avoid referring thematics like real life politics, real life religions, and everything tied to it.
    Some things aren't just forbidden on a whim. It's forbidden for solid reasons, because of issues that may have happened in the past and to prevent to see them reproduced.
    While we are aware that satirical content is not necessarily done with the intention to hurt people, on sensible topics, starting to allow some content would generate the question "where to draw the line?" and there is no ideal answer to that.
     
    Using "Jay Cee" instead of "JC" doesn't change anything as it's obvious to whom it was referring.
    As long as the intent to refer to something not allowed by the rules is clear, there is no valid excuse to not apply the rule. Changing the orthography won't be a valid excuse.
    Now, "Raptor Jesus" is directly linked to a parody of a real life religion (Christianism): http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Raptor_Jesus 
    So it falls in the "content referring to real life religion" category. As CaptainTwerkMotor suggested, "Raptor Guru" could be fine, but not "Raptor Jesus".
     
    Also, it's true that we didn't allow "Pepe the Frog" avatars. Why we didn't have any concerns originally with it, as soon as it becomes a symbol associated to a political movement (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepe_the_Frog), it fell in the "content referring to real life politics" category.
     
    Our decisions aren't taken on subjective criteria, but on facts.
    So don't take it like an unfair punishement aimed at specific members of the community.  It's just how things work.
     
     
    Isn't the situation being a bit over dramatized here?
    There is plenty of other ways of showing appreciation to JC, without making a cult (even a funny one) around him.
     
    Best Regards,
    Nyzaltar.
     
  7. Like
    KingofPR reacted to Lethys in The Church Of Jay Cee!   
    Nyz already explained this - and imho NQ is right there. Read the rules, think about them, read them again - THEN do stuff. Don't cry out AFTERWARDS because "mimimimimi we're not allowed to do shit and NQ deleted our org without talking to us first".
     
    Leave politics, RL issues and your private shit out of the game - no one cares what you do or think in your RL
  8. Like
    KingofPR reacted to Haunty in The Church Of Jay Cee!   
    I enjoy religious and other satire too, but this isn't the proper place for it.
  9. Like
    KingofPR reacted to Ezghoul in Ships and the crew required   
    I have the feeling that until the game/community grows more, bigger ships may be possible but not profitable.
     
    It's easier to get 100 people into fighters/bombers feeling all bada*# for a fight then just a hand full of bigger ships. I'm sure there will be many smaller multicrew ships but battleship/cruiser+ is asking for a lot of commitment. Manpower, resources and manning are probably going to be the limits. Not restrictions set by NQ.
     
    I'm willing to bet that many orgs will be Building massive ships. Unfortunately the first org to complete such an undertaking will be the first one to LOSE it. From my experience in other MMO s it's better for a clan/org to have steady progression then to do one massive project that may fail as soon as it's finished.
     
    Edit: Sorry for rambling a bit. My biggest point is Eve's golden rule "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose". Every noobie hears it and almost every noobie disregards this until they feel the pain of loss.
  10. Like
    KingofPR reacted to Hotwingz in Flat Earth theorists, I have breaking news!!!   
    Yes, I'll try. 
    For starters visit this website, https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/
     
    As you can see they have a bunch of "evidence" in their wiki. One of their principles is that they only accept evidence of tests that are based on natural observation. That sort of science has a fancy name but I can't remember. Another one of their "rules" is that their way of science should be able to be solved by high school math. 
     
     
    Do I understand them? No I don't. I honestly thought it was a joke conspiracy but turns out it has quite a few followers. 
     
    Hit me a PM if you have further questions. 
  11. Like
    KingofPR reacted to 0something0 in Hyper Endeavor Foundation   
    So, should I create an actual org?
  12. Like
    KingofPR reacted to Slaxx in TVR and GC have merged (pls move to arkship pub)   
    Hello everyone. This is the official announcement that The Void Republic and the Galactic Commonwealth have merged.
    Our ideoligies seem to be similiar and so we came up with the merger idea to increase our member number and have a better chance at competition.
    For now, this is still the trial phase. We will each keep our discords and individual organization registration.
    The new unified organization will be called the "Unity League" to honor the merger.
     
    Our goals will be mainly to create a competing power block against Cinderfall Syndicate & allies.
    Secondarily our goals will include having a strong military presence and large influence in the general universe as well as building a large structured infrastructure like jumpgates.
    Furthermore, individual player freedom and serving as middle ground for player gaming.
     
    We will take alliance offers from other empires that are interested and want to join up the fight against the Cinderfall block.
     
    If your organization is interested in joining up forces against them, message TheSlaxx or mmtheboss. Alternatively, here is our discord link: https://discord.gg/6JGFpxW
     
    See you soon, space traveler!
  13. Like
    KingofPR reacted to Sunrider44 in I had a sewing class.... xD   
    That's pretty nice, it's easy to recognize logos.
     
    And now you can go from sewing machine to the kitchen to make cookies    .
  14. Like
    KingofPR reacted to Anaximander in Ideas for collision damage   
    In no kind of MMO the Space Engineers model is applicable. The game won't be crashing ,but the servers would., If you calculate collisions on a voxel to voxel basis, you will run out of RAM on your server real quick. In my model, you only got a G tolernmace nad an HP loss ofr the whole ship. I't's not even Voxel HP it's just a bar that dictates how much your ship's part are hurt - including fuel tanks and capacitors.
     
    What people fail to realise, is that NQ doesn't plan on aggragating damage - even for combat., at least not for launch. JC Baillie himself said so on the Kickstarter AMA video. People think it's space engineers or nothing. What I am simply suggesting is the same old falling damage mechanic used in games like Battlefield and Planetside 2, where your vehicle can have a "limit" on how much acceleration it can take before starting to take damage. Acceleration happens when stopping as well, it's just in the opposite direction of one's momentum.
     
    So, whatever would happen to your jet fighter in Battlefield on a collision at high speeds - evne on landing vertically -0 the same would happen to a ship with the same G tolerance. BUT, in combat, voxels would act as the protection for the ship's vital systems - fue tanks , capacitors, etcetera.
     
    It's the best of both worlds. Voxel armors and collision damage mechanics.
  15. Like
    KingofPR reacted to Lights in (Insert some very long words to make this topic look like i know what im talking about)   
    Hey so i was thinking as I slump in my chair contemplating stuff.
    what if one way you can disable a ship, with destroying voxels, and not overloading the server is to possibly do this.
     
    Lets say you send a rocket to a generator conveniently placed on top of the ship because someone still tries to make a star destroyer thinking its very original. 
     
    when the rocket hits the generator, it wont explode and randomly destroy the ship in peculiar places, but rather, it destroys the generator, which takes away a certain radius of voxels and elements around it., this way you cant just send a million rockets in the general direction of a ship, and have it randomly destroy voxels, but instead it will only be destroyed if people leave stuff on the outside alot. so if you send a million rockets, and the ship only has 1 generator on top, and nothing else with explosion capabilities, those rockets may hit the ship alot, but only the area around the generator is disabled by voxel removal., and if rockets and such forth hit non vital areas such as the hull, instead of making holes there, it will take away HP from the ship, as Twerk in a previous thread suggested.and to make the rockets always usable  and not obsolete because someone finds a way to use engines and stuff only inside and surround their ship with hull, make it so some stuff have to be on top of the ship to work, such as antenna, shield generators etc, this allows destruction by voxel removal without having so much that the server tries too hard calculating stuff.
  16. Like
    KingofPR reacted to Anaximander in Ideas for collision damage   
    A) Voxels have HP. You can't expect a Titanium Voxel and Wooden Voxel to have the same HP. Look up the GDC video, it's in there, JC said it himself. So please, stop dreaming of making an iron shit-ship that will go up against a Titanium ship.
     
    The system I suggest takes all the Voxel HP on the ship and combines it into one single HP Bar for collisions. Bar reaches zero, ship expldoes (capacitors, fuel tanks, reactors overlaod, etcetera).
     
    C) Do you even understand my suggestion is about NO VOXEL DEFORMATION. Where the ships collides does not matter, you won't PUNCTURE anyone's ship with a beak-like trollpedo boat. This system guarantees this.  
     
    D) Collision in the model I suggested, is the same model used by ANYONE and their mother in any game other than Space Engineers, means you got a limtied Delta of acceleration. You can't go past that.
     
    You can't brake from 200 m/s to 0 m/s in 1 second without suffering a 22 G decceleration and you can't go from 0 to 200 m/s in 1 second without sufferign a 22 G accelreation. In both cases ,if your ship can only take 2 Gs of accelaratio, means you exceeded your ship's G tolerance by 11 times  = your ship explodes. What you can't push your mind away from is Space Engineers.THIS IS NOT ABOUT VOXEL DEFORMATION. This si about ships having G tolerance and taking "Fall damage" if they exceed it.
     
     
    So please mate, quit your bullshit arguements. this system I suggested is used from WoW to even BF1 for falling damage. In fact, in WoW, the "Water-Walking" buff makes you take fall damage if you land on watter. Why? Cause it makes you have as priority to detect the water's mesh model. So, no, get your mind out of the Space Engineers model. I am not talking about destroying voxels on Collision. It's about a constrtcut having a total Falling Damage HP bar. 
     
    And yes, destroying part of the ship reduces that falling damage HP, so if you had a ship that has 50% of its voxels missing after being shot a lot in a battle, it has 50% less Falling Damage HP.
     
     
     
    In this model I suggested, shields are a buffer for collision, they got their own "HP" so they can act as a layer before you take structure damage.
     
    If a ship can block kinetic projectiles it sure as shit can mitigate a collision.
     
    And the arguement "but what if they pummel your shields down with smaller ships?". No they won't. If your ship's shields have more HP than their ships shields + hull HP, then THEY will take damage on each collision. But hey, most people in here don't even know math, let alone what the Third Law of Motion is.
  17. Like
    KingofPR reacted to Lethys in Neutral alts - Recording battles, Interviews, News, History,...   
    Valid points there twerk, and you are right. You don't reconstruct a battle from one, neutral alts, POV. You take that viewpoint and compare it to others, do your research, get other POVs of that battle and compare and analyze them.
     
    I understand your points, as I played eve long enough and they're all valid. You can execute those neutral alts, that will happen. And I don't suspect people to trust those alts, they have no reason for it. That's why DUHS has to work hard for a reputation and why we need (mostly) unbiased reporters. Best case: enemies work together on a report so it shows both sides. Worst case: it goes horribly wrong and people just don't trust anyone.
     
    Whatever the case, we'll work towards our goal for an unbiased view on DU history, with every tool available to us
  18. Like
    KingofPR reacted to Lachenlaud in Two words space elevator   
    Ok... lets talk waste of time... and resources!
    A Space Elevator offers several advantages to a player or player group for several reasons;
    From the demos I've watched on vid (YouTube, etc.) I've seen that there is going to be some sort of 'fuel' powering vehicles. Presumably that 'fuel' won't be something that just 'magically appears' in the tanks of said vehicles. Power may, based on hints given in the stories and lore surrounding this game, be generated via Solar (and presumably other sources, perhaps windmills, etc...  see the story at this link: https://dual-static-web.s3.amazonaws.com/static/pdf/Dual-Universe-English.pdf) Assuming that power can be generated without the continuous use of consumable fuels, a 'Space Elevator' might be powered by such.  If that is the case, then there is a possibility that resources could be saved by using such a device to ferry materials such as metals, people, etc. to an orbital platform. In one of the demo vids I observed a 'different' fuel guage for atmos vs in-space flight... theoretically mass could be a factor in getting items out of a planets gravity well.... if thats the case, then carting up extra 'fuel' for space flight would also consume additional fuel... thus if that theory holds true, it would cost more fuel to get fuel out of the planetary gravity well....  So a Space Elevator concept offers ALL KINDS of potential advantages... its just a matter of how much the game designers are going to incorporate resource usage into game-play reality... 
     
    Of course, for now... its just speculation, so we'll have to wait an see... but the possibilities are endless!
  19. Like
    KingofPR reacted to Lethys in The Galaxy Map - It needs to be 3D   
    With their mineral scanning in place they could really make a very good system to calculate where you are, which would/could be quite realistically. Scan for known pulsars and derive your position from the distance to them (it's quite hard IRL tbh, but it's a game)
     
    For map design I too hope they go for an actual ingame element which shows the map so that you have different layers of maps instead of one omnipresent one, like:
     
    - for personal use a basic map of your sourroundings via your hand tool
    - in small fighters (as we seen in videos) those planetary maps with an indication marker
    - in big ships/stations in orbit a 2D map of the solar system
    - in ships with ftl capacity a 3D map
     
    There could be all kinds of different mechanics to this too
     
    - it doesn't show nothing you haven't been to
    - you have to scan for new sols/stars/planets to get a general direction
    - more sophisticated scanners could show more info (inhabitants, bases, constructs) with an increased radius
    - data could be passed on to another player (map markets!) so that explorers earn money
    - ...
     
    All above are ofc only daydreams but as we already saw what NQ did in the past (scanning mechanics, traps) it's pretty hard not to believe they don't come up with a good solution
  20. Like
    KingofPR reacted to Croomar in DU Religions   
    Here's what I think will be a reason for ingame religions inside DU to be very successful at some point.

    There are different layers for players to group up with each other.
    First, there are wild masses of people close to each other in terms of distance.
    They can then form fixed groups like between a small party of friends.
    Multiple of those parties would create clans or guilds in regular games, where Dual Universe offers organizations that are essentially both what guilds are and another layer for the larger orgs, mostly nations or whatever BOO would be categorized as.
    Then on another, larger layer would be Alliances / Conglomerates / Umbrella Orgs or whatever you want to call it.

    And that's where the religions kick in. 
    Because typically, the raison d'être for a religion is to form a bond between a large amount of people.
    That usually works out for religions that preach peace, as one example for an objective to work towards, among all their followers, which is achieved by idealizing common factors, for example the 10 commandments in Christianity or the 5 Pillars of Islam. And simplified, a deity or idol functions as personification of these common factors.
    But not every religion needs this, as stated before a religion can idealize a set of characteristics (see mrjacobean's post) and worship them directly or through certain assets at best. That would be a reason why religions would work ingame.

    And when given an objective, the followers can gather on an alternative layer, that exists alongside political layers that might restrict players from grouping up and working on an objective together. A Cinderfall politican is unlikely to work with a pirate on a shared vessel, because they have different points of interests that contradict each other and thus restrict them. But at the same time, they could be working on the religious layer on a giant vessel to eradicate a common enemy, let's say a different religion that idealizes war instead of peace or vice versa. And if these groups are just large enough, their usages are practically limitless and can become effective on the political level as well. So there we have a comparison between material and spiritual world, explained through different levels and layers.

    TL;DR
    Religions might be successful ingame because they are a means to form a group that can co-exist on a different, perhaps even larger level besides regular organizations or political factions.
  21. Like
    KingofPR reacted to Hades in DU Religions   
    If there's anything I've learned... it's that religious intolerance does NOT work.  And such a mindset is telling about the kind of person you (you being collective, not targeting you) are.  I wouldn't worry about it... one bad apple doesn't represent the majority.
     
    I do agree with yamamushi though, that discussion isn't meant for a gaming forum and as such isn't really necessary.
  22. Like
    KingofPR reacted to Shynras in I'll give you an idea for an original org   
    We know that orbiting is going to be possible, but there'll be no automated way of doing it, so it's going to be quite hard for most people to understand how to do it. Here you go, an org specialized on sending constructs in orbit, or to build them directly there.
     
    -Why would you want something to orbit a planet? 
    Ofc it's more accessible for ships, since we know there will be different thrusters for different types of atmospheres, a ship that doesn't have the right thrusters can't land on a planet for fuel or anything else. An orbital station is also useful to park your ship and land on the planet with a rover or specific construct made for that. 
    Orbiting is also useful since it's mobile and harder to attack (harder target to hit and the attackers would need to move constantly towards the station, consuming a large amount of fuel  and becoming an easier target if the orbiting speed is high enough. Depending on the orbit you choose, you could actually restrict certain types of ships (that are not fast enough to reach orbital speed) to reach your station. 
    Maybe even an orbital defense system, radar system, or more, depending on the elements we will have at our disposal.
     
    -Well, I could just build a station in space that doesn't move, right?
    You can, but keep in mind: being close to a planet is a good way to advertise your station (everyone that has the planet as a destination will see your station), and you can't be close to a planet with a station that doesn't move or orbit, you'd be attracted and smashed on the ground. And if you're too far away from the planet you ofc become a second choice (and in deep space you'll see black markets).
     
    -What an org like this one would really do?
    You'd need to calculate gravity by testing (if devs will not provide the data with some element) for each single planet/asteroid you need. 
    Calculate both the vertical and horizontal speed you need to reach orbit.
    Learn how to send constructs on different orbits, with different heights and speeds, for different purposes.
    Find cheap ways to send an already built construct in orbit.
    Find ways to build a construct while already in orbit.
    Find a way to mantain a construct in orbit (since a station weight changes depending on construct, resources and people that land on it, speed could also change, and over time you station could fall on the ground). 
    Find ways to send a construct from an orbit to another
    And so on
  23. Like
    KingofPR reacted to NQ-Nyzaltar in Furry Dual Universe players?   
    Hi everyone,
     
    Just a friendly reminder:
    We respect diversity. However, forum rules also indicate that subjects related to sexuality, religions or real life politics aren't allowed (even in the off topic section).
    The reason is simple: these subjects don't contribute to the discussions about the game and they are quickly a source of conflict in any game community (as this topic showed once more). So please avoid to discuss such thing on the forum in the future.
     
    On a side note: 
    According to the official lore, there will be no playable furry creatures. Only humans. So, as sad as it may sounds for certains members of the community, don't expect to be able to visually represent such character in-game. We prefer to be clear right from the start, to avoid giving false hopes on that topic.
     
    This thread is now going to be closed.
    Thank you all for your understanding.
     
    Best Regards,
    Nyzaltar.
  24. Like
    KingofPR got a reaction from Vyz Ejstu in Furry Dual Universe players?   
    Sorry if i escalated it but the scientific is the only one that counts the other one is a misconception, its better called sexuality. But this is a game forum so lets talk about the game not about real life problems. Lets keep our opinions to each other and sorry again if i sounded rude. 
  25. Like
    KingofPR reacted to Lights in Furry Dual Universe players?   
    theres two TYPES of genders. Scientific gender, aka two genders and mental gender where you could believe you are anything from a transgender to a nob binary vegan apache helicopter. i believe shogun was reffering to the scientific one.
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