ShioriStein

We know a bit about how exploration at an interstellar level is planned to be, so this doesn't really concern the mechanics of exploration so much as how that information is propagated...
 
At some point, new planets and systems are going to have to make it into a galactic map for us, so this idea is more about how that would take place.
 
I propose that in order for a new system or planet to show up on the galactic map, that someone has to actually go out to that planet or system and collect information about it somehow (a mechanic that doesn't exist yet). Then they have to fly back to the Arkship (without dying and losing said scan results) and upload that scan into the Arkship so that everyone globally can have access to that information.
 
That way new planets and systems can remain somewhat secret to the discoverers, and it gives more value to those who are exploring deep space selling the location of planets and solar systems. But if someone goes out there they can choose to make it public by uploading that data to the Arkship for everyone to have access to.

Great idea.  Yes, the ability to craft pharmaceutical and biotechnological items should definitely be included in the game.  How could it not, with all the intrepid exploration into unknown environments and potentially dangerous discoveries that will be going on -- not to mention all the military campaigning and political shenanigans that I’m sure will be rife in DU?
Biotech & Pharmaceuticals
 
Maybe this is a bit too ambitious, or incompletely thought out, but I was thinking about the Op’s post and my mind just started to run with it.  I would like to see Novaquark create a large, reference library of flora and fauna in the game from which other plant and animal life could be procedurally generated to inhabit other worlds.  Each animal or plant organism would come with its own unique set of individual biochemical properties that combine to form the whole plant or animal.  When these ingredients are combined with other substances (organic or synthetic), this may or may not create useful compounds with a variety of biochemical effects, including buffing, de-buffing or damage repair effects on the player in the game. 
So, in this simplified example, 'plant life A' comes with a set of biochemical attributes, made up of individual biochemical properties.  For example: plant A is made up of individual biochemical property 1 + individual biochemical property 2 + individual biochemical property 3 + individual biochemical property 4.  Plant life A, as a whole organism, has a biochemical property value of 10 (1+2+3+4).  Either players could try combining the entire organism’s biochemical properties (10) with other substances to see what happens, or they could try mixing its individual biochemical properties (1, 2, 3 or 4), or a combination of them (e.g. 1 and 4) with another substance to see what happens.  I just used numbers to illustrate the point.  The actual properties of plants, animals and other substances in the game would be more interesting.  Players and organizations would be able to purchase (expensive) lab equipment in the game in order to manipulate these substances.
Some discoveries would be easier to discover than others.  Some discoveries require no discovery at all and would allow players to create familiar crafted items, like drinking water, for example (if they have the equipment).  Players would be provided with a small database of known craftable items (uploaded into their enviro suit’s onboard computer) that can be crafted if you have all the constituent ingredients.  If a player also had the equipment, he could synthetize hydrogen and oxygen atoms, and combine them to form water.
Other discoveries would be composed of many disparate elements whose chemical properties are as yet unknown, located far and wide across infinite space. You would also have to combine them in specific ways (e.g. 1 part [substance 1], 2 parts [substance 2], 5 parts [substance 6]).  Some discoveries like this could turn the tide of wars and be a deciding factor in geopolitical power struggles.  Rare texts for the preparation of some compounds may be found, since there are rumors of older, more advanced, alien races that were thought to have occupied or passed through certain areas of space.  Those texts would themselves be extremely valuable. 
So, for example, say explorers discover an ancient text with instructions on creating a particular compound, derived from the combination of certain individual chemical elements from several rare species of alien plants, located on different planets --some of them very remotely located and difficult to reach.  They sell the text to one particular organization (and make a very handsome profit on the sale).  The plants are eventually located, gathered and combined, as per the alien text’s instructions.  This compound could exert one of any number of effects, from mending serious injuries at an accelerated rate, to increasing a player’s tolerance for higher G-force levels when performing stressful aerial maneuvers.  Without it, a player would black out.  The compound could be applied in one of several ways: either via a spray, via injection, or by taking a tablet.  Players would, of course, see the appropriate animation corresponding to the manner of ingestion, along with some kind of visual effect and/or diagrammatical indicator on the screen to tell you it is now activated in the body. 
Patents
 
A player or organization could then submit an application to the closest Regional Patent Authority (RPA) for the jurisdiction of space in which the application is submitted.  Patents for any sort of crafted item would be assigned to an entity’s merchant I.D.  Each market region has its own patent authority, which is an NPC run organization that has access to a database of all the patents that have been issued so far in all the market jurisdictions that it oversees.  If granted, the patent would be exclusively attached to the merchant I.D. of the player or organization making the application, and they would receive an electronic document guaranteeing them the exclusive right to manufacture and sell the invention for a limited amount of time in that particular market jurisdiction before the patent expires (it would be a decent amount of time).  Patents covering larger markets (i.e. more than one market jurisdiction would become progressively more expensive the more market jurisdictions you want to gain a patent for.  A patent would not be required to sell things on the market but it would protect your ‘first discoverer’ intellectual property rights and lock other people out from manufacturing it for themselves, therefore possibly taking jurisdiction market share that rightfully belongs to you.
Private Deals
 
Alternatively, the discovery (in this case, the compound) could be traded privately, face-to-face.  This sort of trade does not require a patent or even a merchant I.D, just a contract.  Imagine, a travelling merchant sells the newly synthesized compound to a contact he has in one of two organizations that are locked in a bitter military power struggle for regional domination.  Or maybe he sells it to both organizations.  After all, he’s most likely just in it for the money and if the two sides stay deadlocked, this will only be good for his business).  You would only need a merchant I.D if you wanted to sell something on the official markets.
Merchant I.D
 
All organizations and players would be assigned one merchant I.D. when they first enter the game.  All official market-based transactions would be connected to your merchant I.D.  Without one, you would not be able to trade on the official markets.  Merchant I.Ds, however could be suspended.  That’s the disadvantage of being an outlaw.  As a slight restraining mechanism on player or organization behavior, if a player or organization were to develop a reputation as an outlaw, they could have their merchant ID suspended until fines are paid.  Repeat offenders would typically find themselves repeatedly locked out of the market system.  To compensate, however, a black market would probably spring up somewhere.  So, each player or organization would be assigned one merchant I.D.  Although players could choose whether or not they wish to connect their merchant I.D to any particular blueprints, crafted items they create, or any off-market contracts they enter, it would automatically be assigned for any transactions they wish to carry out on The Market. 
Market Jurisdictions and Regions
 
Now, I’m sure Novaquark would want to balance the need to reward players for their discoveries with the need to ensure that the market avoids becoming too dominated by a minority of individuals or organizations without some sort of counteracting force: financial cost.  I think it would be interesting if, instead of one universal market where everyone sees the same items and services available for sale (at the same prices), I think it would be cool if the overall market system (The Market) were broken down into ‘regions’, to reflect the cost/benefit analysis decisions of real-life businesses.  After all, as a business, accessing new markets costs money, and carries some risk.
These market regions would in turn be broken down into market ‘jurisdictions’, with designations like Eris-4 or Eris-5.  So, in this example, ‘Eris’ would be the region name, and the designation ‘4’ or ‘5’ would the jurisdiction.  The core areas of space around the Arkship, where players start their game, would be the core market or Ark Market.  Selling goods within the core areas would be fee free, but you would still need a merchant I.D.  If enough jurisdictions are created fairly contiguously, they eventually form a region.  So you could have a region consisting of jurisdictions belonging to different groups.   That would make for some interesting interjurisdictional dynamics.  For a jurisdiction to be created, players would have to venture out into areas outside of the core areas of space, into as yet unclaimed areas of space.  They would then find a habitable planet (or build a space station) and (after securing an area with a territorial unit, they could (if they have the credits) purchase a ‘market jurisdiction node’ upgrade for their territorial unit (an extremely expensive upgrade).  This will turn the territorial unit in a market hub.  Until you or someone else has purchased the upgrade nearby, you will not have access to the pre-existing hubs of The Market, because you’d be too far away and your area would not appear on the market system map.  Instead, you would have to travel to the nearest market jurisdiction and make your purchases there.  In other words, if you venture out a certain distance from the core area(s) of the Arkship, you will not be able to access the core market.  If you wanted to establish access to The Market, someone would have to upgrade their territorial unit with the jurisdiction node.  That would probably take time – depending on your resources.  Otherwise you’d have to travel to the nearest hub.  If there happened to be a little space between two or more already established jurisdictions, the game would just apportion the surplus space between each of the jurisdictions concerned, based on the volume of market activity in each jurisdiction until the jurisdictions were contiguous to each other.  Jurisdiction nodes, can be destroyed and replaced, however.  So adequate defenses would be required to protect them.
Jurisdiction Modes (Upgraded Territorial Units)
 
When a territorial unit is upgraded to a jurisdiction node, players are given the opportunity to name the jurisdiction. The game would decide when enough jurisdictions have been created to form a region.  That’s not to say that all regions will ultimately be of the same size, or that the establishment of a region would be cast in stone forever.  Military force, or political alliances could change that.  An existing market jurisdiction node could either be destroyed or moved to reflect new relationships.  The jurisdiction node would be prohibitively expensive for all but the wealthiest and/or most industrious individuals and organizations. 
The incentive to establish a new market in the first place would be that, once upgraded to a jurisdiction node, players or organizations would receive a small commission from every sale made on the market system in that market jurisdiction, which could potentially become extremely lucrative once the population of a newly established frontier jurisdiction reaches a critical mass (if they choose to go there, that is).  This would reflect the prestige of achieving this feat and reaching this position, and could also result is some kind of RPG-like boost to a player or organization’s reputation and standing in the game. 
Selling & Buying on Remote Markets
 
So, outside of the core market, new jurisdictions can be created by players as they venture out of the core areas into untapped areas of space.  To sell anything on these markets, you would need to pay a fee.  The farther out the target jurisdiction is from the jurisdiction where you are selling from, the larger the fee would be to sell goods in the target jurisdiction.  As I said, this would simulate the cost/benefit analysis decisions of real-life businesses, where accessing new markets costs money and means more risk (the farther out and newer the market is).  Players and organizations would have to weigh the added cost of selling items in remote markets versus the likely value of what they are selling, the size of the population in that particular jurisdiction, and therefore the level of demand for what they are selling.  This added cost to sell in more remote markets pays the commissions that market jurisdiction founders collect on each sale, in honor of their efforts to expand the empire (or something like that).
 
So, in having to pay a fee before they can access newer markets, sellers would have to factor in the cost of the commission to the market jurisdiction’s founders into their pricing decisions.  Will they absorb the cost, or will they pass it onto the customer.  If they choose to pass the cost on to the buyer, this would give more remote market jurisdictions a reputation for typically being more expensive to buy things on.  Then again, sellers may choose to absorb the costs and undercut their competitors to gain market share.  Something you also see in the real life economy. 
Market Access Cost Reduction Strategies
Alternatively, organizations, and groups of players, may choose to organize themselves in order to reduce the costs of selling goods in other market jurisdictions.  For example, imagine 3 market jurisdictions: A, B and C.  We have a ‘merchant A’. If merchant A wanted to sell his goods in jurisdiction A (his home jurisdiction), the fee he would have to pay would be smaller than if he wanted to sell in jurisdiction B. This because he would be selling his goods into the market jurisdiction that he is physically located in.  If our merchant wanted to sell goods in jurisdiction C, the fee he would have to pay would larger than if he wanted to sell in jurisdiction B, and much larger than if he wanted to sell in his local jurisdiction A.  If the merchant wanted to keep his costs down (which you'd think he would), he would have two choices:  1. He could travel to jurisdiction B or C himself and list his goods for sale there, but this would be impractical.  2. Or he could have contacts stationed in jurisdiction B and C while he remains in jurisdiction A.  Since Novaquark have said they wish to include realistic industrial processes in game, it would be cool if that extended to realistic commercial processes too, where goods are actually physically transported in cargo ships loaded with freight containers to their intended markets.  Organizations or groups could then have their contacts waiting in other jurisdictions to take delivery of the goods upon arrival.  Then the contact would pay the smaller local fee, before listing the goods for sale on the local market.  This would reduce costs, but (depending on the nature of his relationship with his contact), he may have to pay his contact.
 

I feel like adding special shield elements (like in Avorion) for ships would add a cool aspect to PVP. Let's say you could have a shield module which enables you to use the shield and a couple shield emitters that you can divert power to, to add more shield strength to certain areas of your ship. It may be overpowered in some fields, so I am not entirely sure whether this is a good idea. What do you think?

In my humble opinion we will need to have pharmaceutical industry in this DU game the benefits will be huge mostly becose of the PvP-ers will be in a constant need for mediPens and other medicines.
This is just a rushly made example what I made (sorry its nothing cool or fancy but is a representation  in a simple form the benefits of the pharmaceutical Industry in DU game).

Edit/
And whit all this we will need also Hydroponic systems on a large scale to back up the Pharmaceutical Industry so huge benefits from this branches in the game. I know that out there will be lots of players who will enjoy in the farming aspect of the game and that they will be able to
earn a great amount of Quantas from all this!
 
!
 
(To all triggered persons out there Yes, I know my english grammar is far from good but Iam here becose I game not grammar)
 
 
 
 

I think it will be something like drop all your inventory, gear, tool, ... It is best way i think.
 
Quanta is your backup money and wont be lost for any other reason than you intent to give it out. So that even you lost everything, Quanta still your back up money so that you can start again. If drop the Quanta too it will be very easy to make the player to give up and never come back again, it is a loss for community, dev anyway.
 
About what if you re gonna find and attack a player you track for so long then they log out ? Well from the leak, NQ had already had a solution for it, we just need to wait.

I know that creating another Database isn't ever a good thing so i thought we could get our shiny fix by having Gemstones randomly generate  with the deposits of ore and minerals, having different types of gemstones corresponding with certain mineral and ore types, like in nature. Would be useful too if incorporated into the crafting recipes maybe added for high end and rare parts/constructs. Just an idea from someone who misses shiny hunting!!

And fauna? I mean I'm just trying to imagine Conan Exiles, Minecraft etc. with no "critters" and similar at all.
 
You could argue that it's not fully comparable because obviously, those worlds usually
 
1) rely on classic servers with limited player slots and
2) also intend to offer some sort of possible singleplayer or offline experience (not all, but many)
 
So those might "need" it. While Dual Universe will aim for huge player numbers. I'd say "Yes, perhaps correct".
 
I still think having environmental or local hazards such as fauna may be more interesting in the DU setting than not having that at all. I realize it's more work to design the creatures or whatever it may be, and then work to implement AI. But assuming it's not terribly impossible or hard in the given framework and assuming it is later possible because resources are freed up, it should be considered by the devs.
 
I'm not talking about humanoid NPCs now, but creatures that may have developed on some worlds that would logically allow it. I wouldn't mind some humanoid NPCs either to simulate some of the background factions in DU or people from other Ark ships, though.
 
TL;DR: I understand, it is no secret that the focus for DU appears to be on players, less so much on NPCs or even a potential "PVE" NPCs would bring. Then again, I would welcome certain critters and whatnot to spice things up on some planets. Having those doesn't hurt PVPers or anyone who doesn't mind an absence of NPCs or creatures. I'd say at the bottom line and on an abstract level, more people benefit or enjoy such potential adversaries than not having them.
 
The only practical obstacle I see is the effort and time required to implement those things in the game, next to a potential "vision". I'd assume that eventually a point would come where core mechanics are in and where the devs can focus on other aspects, such as more content for players. And maybe even PVE content. You can leave out more complex adversaries like other humans (as NPCs). But creatures or other life forms might be nice.
 
 

@ShioriStein @Aaron Cain
Working on it. I don't have a way to host an online version atm it but I have the data.

https://i.imgur.com/YRD9YAr.jpg
 
unfortunately imgur compresses everything to ~1.71Mb so it's still hard to read.

hmm... what is this?
Nodes: 6550
Edges: 8816
 
EDIT: https://i.imgur.com/YRD9YAr.jpg
 

I would love to see a planet with caves big enough to fly through possibly all the way to the core so you can get lost trying to get back to the surface. Basically a planet with like 30%cave and 70%matter. I imagine you could make really nice structures or cave cities in there and have a different challenge in finding and mining resources. It may not be very realistic but hey that's what games are for right.
 

Yeah i agree that the information about where is place of hex that got claim shouldnt be view from a basic map, Intel always a critical resource to the surviving in wildness (remember before the modern a detail map used to be a military information because it show the graphic and the road of area ).
 
That is private, it not private now day because of globalization and modern thought. And people dont shot other people (usually not ) if they have land conflict.
 
But in the end the risk for being claim should still there because it is wildness after all but i think a solution:
Instead instantly grant you the ownership of the land, it should take time to claim depend on how many construct in the area that is not own by the one place TU. So that people inside that hex will have time to prepare :
1. Move your stuff to somewhere.
2. Trade with the owner of the TU so that you can still live there.
3.FIGHT ...

I would never consider claiming land which was not claimed before grieving.  If some builds on a territory that has not been claimed, they should accept the risk of losing their constructs.  If someone is prudent, they would only build either on land they already own or where they have permission to build from the owner.  Letting players effectively claim land by building on it would defeat the purpose of the territory units.

@blazemonger Once again you are attributing to me something i never said and arguing a point i never made. When I say the game wont be safe your response is essence is you probably won't die. Probably is not 0%. In other games you are 100% safe to mine, 100% safe to play the game loop(at least from other players). Not 99.99999% safe. I am not afraid of any type of player dominating the game. And never said i was. I'm "afraid" about the disconnect between the world NQ is putting out and the world I think they will get. The game can work with lots of pvpers everywhere or lots of p+e players everywhere. With things being safe OR nothing being safe. I'm ok with all of it. The game world should match the game they want to make. If they want it to be a civ building game first and pvp second then the game world should not be structured the exact opposite. PvP in 99% of the game world with small protected areas.
 
It is also odd to me that you accused me of knowing the pvp systems etc which i never said i did. My entire argument is games that allow open world pvp tend to be dominated by it and that runs against the civ style game NQ sometimes markets. That's the beginning and end of my argument, because as you stated we don't know anything else about combat. Your entire post, for it to be true, has to make huge assumptions about how game play mechanics work. You are assuming you can easily hide from those that want to kill you because the world is so large. You are assuming that the game play will support this style of game yet we know nothing of why it will be that way. This is YOUR argument, that I couldn't know the details of the pvp system. Yet somehow you KNOW you can hide. My point does not require any of this, it only requires the clearly stated position of NQ towards pvp and p+e zones.

@Borb_1 I appreciate the way you discuss things. As to your first paragraph, this would be the exact opposite of the stated position NQ has right now. They have stated if you want to gain something of value it must come with risk. The Moon Safe zones, clearly stated, will have NO resources in the ground and the arkship safezone is too small to be relevant in mining for the long term(i don't know if they have provided a clear answer to what resources will be in the arkship safe zone). What your saying in this first paragraph is pretty much what i am saying NQ should do to get the game you are stating DU is. Which is provide the complete or near complete P+E game loop to players with no threat of PvP. So i guess i kind of agree with this.
 
Neither one of you have actually answered the question I asked. You talked about why it SHOULD be the way you say. Why the mechanics of the game, that none of us know, SHOULD lead to the P+E base you say. The point I am making is if primary P+E civ building is the game NQ wants, why implement stuff that SHOULD make it that way instead of implementing stuff that DOES make it that way. This game is vastly different then other games so I agree none of us can KNOW how it will work out(keep in mind you are both saying this is a civ game as if you KNOW it will be). But the question neither of you answered, if you have the opinion that this should be primarily a P+E civ building game with a smaller PvP top:
 
"why have the game world as PvP with P+E zones, and not the opposite?  Why force the PvP in to the P+E game loop? "

It look cool. And also there is another ArkShip for us to discovery when we can go to another system.
I think they can use your idea about that ArkShip get damage and life support turn off and kill all passenger and crew then player have to fix it. After fixing that ArkShip can become a spawn point.

It would be nice if we can general scan a planet before start mining there. Like it show you 10 type of ore available on that planet but only reveal 4-6 common to uncommon type ore, the rest you have to scan by hand on the planet or on the ground ( and of course no location, too easy if it does ).

Also NQ have said they will create a tool help player to get right decision when build a star gate, i think a wide general scan will include.

Uuurrrgghhhh
 
The sand just gets in everywhere....
 
and I mean EVERYWHERE!  ?
 

 

That what give it value. If you cant then hire someone can.

So much argument ... 
I think we need a flexible system not a complicate system. And what NQ have said is "Everything is up to player", so the more complicate system (like karma system ) , the more loop hole it can be ... Well that just my thought.

About lone ship attack. I think that is "risk and reward" isnt it ? You take the risk for go alone to decrease some expense cost when go with other player in a caravan or protection fee isnt it ?!
 
Also if i'm not wrong, NQ have said something about a reputation system ... Maybe it kinda look like Karma system ?

Some people here assume I am a griefer when in fact I am a builder.
 
Nanny systems can, and do, get worked around, and in the end can give a false sense of security. "The system said he was good then he killed me - or someone did...."
 
I used to play Eve. I discovered that it's a tough game, not for the faint hearted. I wont get into super detail, but in it are three levels of space. High Security Space, Low Security Space, and Null Security Space. In High Security space there are space cops that come to help you out if you are attacked by any player. Players are marked by a system similar to what you are suggesting. So you would think that High Security space is the safest part of Eve. On the contrary its the most random and dangerous. I know this because I went to what some in Eve consider as the dangerous parts of Eve, Null Security Space. There I found organisations that protected and self policed their own patches of Null Sec. These orgs spread intel on who/what was in what systems - basically what was coming. Knowing this players could react in appropriate ways. Builders would get safe. Warriors would get into their attack ships to defend their turf etc.. In these situations corps marked other players/corps as either friend, neutrals, or enemies to be Killed On Sight (KOS). This way you knew who your friends were, for the most part anyway. (Always be a tad paranoid - it will help you survive)
 
The bottom line is that even though having no cops, and where a nanny system became irrelevant, it was the safest part of Eve. I ended up viewing High Security space as the lawless one, the most random one, the one that could get you killed without provocation. In Null Security space you had a much better idea of friend, or foe.
 
And....
 
The upside was that all the big battles, all the major movement of players, resources, bases, etc happened in Null Sec space. Yes it was, in theory, the most dangerous space, it was also the most fun, the most engaging, the most challenging.
 
Yes, battle fleets could show up, and due to their corps size, field ship after ship after ship to blow players and resources to the wind. And sometimes they did it for weeks and months. This type of thing could be done for by them for training, to lower your solar systems ability to fight back, sometimes for just shits n giggles. It wasnt really viewed as griefing (just annoying lol). You still learn how to live in such a situation. You adapt. You get better. And as a builder sometimes, just sometimes, you learn how to fight back.
 
This can challenge you, Definitely! This can be a pain in the ass - most assuredly. This can bring you to tears (I never cried - honestly ).....
 
But in the end its lots of fun, long time engagement, not just a game you play for a few weeks/months then drop. Thats one reason why Eve has survived as long as it has.
 
So yea, I think the safe zones/sanctuary worlds that NQ is building into DU will be enough to keep people who want to be safe, safe. ('Criminals' have a right to be safe too. - keep in mind one persons terrorist is anothers freedom fighter.... ) Then there is excitement for those willing to take the risk, and get the rewards, by going outside of those zones. Knowing full well they may be attacked, but, with enough friends as backup, they will also know that if attacked they are perfectly free to fight back. Again, and again and again if need be. And yea, that can be scary. But there is nothing like charging into battle knowing you will likely die, lose your hard won ship that you probably built,
 
but....
 
your heart is racing, time slows, palms moisten, and at that point you realise "Shit - this is hell fun!" 
 
Cheers
 
CoreVamore

So much argument ... 
I think we need a flexible system not a complicate system. And what NQ have said is "Everything is up to player", so the more complicate system (like karma system ) , the more loop hole it can be ... Well that just my thought.

About lone ship attack. I think that is "risk and reward" isnt it ? You take the risk for go alone to decrease some expense cost when go with other player in a caravan or protection fee isnt it ?!
 
Also if i'm not wrong, NQ have said something about a reputation system ... Maybe it kinda look like Karma system ?

Well i think it can be solve with RDM ?. Place a static core and area building of it become a plot. And so if you want to sell that plot you will using RDMs to give the right to the one buy it.