Supermega

NQ is trying to sell an early alpha state development as a released game in beta as a paid for live service game. They are not owning up to their commitment and promises set out starting from kickstarter and continue to water down the game.
 
They are trying to make things work but due to the way they designed the game are not able to build complete game loops to facilitate that and seem unwilling to make changes to be able to actually do that by introducing PVE content which is needed to make mechanics work and instead think that they can save the game by introducing a Battle Royal mode and a creative sandbox mode.
 
They think that the mission system is the silver bullet that will solve all problems, they think that by adding a magic "available power" number to tiles they can create power management that is immersive and attractive. They do not consider options and suggestion that actually trigger gameplay for all game play styles and make the game complex, strategic and emergent.
 
If players find creative ways to play without affecting others, they nerf these options. If players find creative ways to play while impacting others  though creating obstacles and risk for others with the same end goal/effect, NQ thinks that's fine and really cool.
 
They say that the industry changes are what was always intended but they were not ready and the result was that  too many player got to "endgame" content (whatever that means) too fast.. Thing is, the changes do not take that endgame content away, it just denies those that did not get there yet for whatever reason the ability to do so while the ones that did will be able to carry on . NQ pretty much is of the opinion that as a solo player or small group you have no problem as you can just pay others whatever they want to ask for by using te markets.
 
Large orgs can isolate entirely from the in game economy and fend for themselves regardless of the changes because it hardly affects them as they have already stocked up and have so much money they can just blanket buy what other will have to work weeks, if not months for to get to. _THAT_  is what the economy is not starting, the isolationist behavior is not with the "small guy", it is with the big orgs who have build their own infrastructure internally, and did so to some degree by using early exploits, loopholes and possibly insider info, and have zero need or incentive to use or feed markets/the economy outside of dumping surplus at whatever price they desire to set for it and/or use their position to undercut and push out anyone trying to get a piece of the pie.
 
Yes, it would certainly cause a setback for many who worked hard to build a small business for themselves in game but the only way to correct the stranglehold the big orgs already have on the game will be to wipe and allow everyone to build their dream on even footing after massive changes are introduced which really are the definition of alpha state of development for a game.
 
 
To quote myself from Discord;
 

 
 
 
And yes, I do feel I am being "clear, polite and to the point."
 
 

The voice chat during the Q&A session was really good. 
 
Much much better than the Q&A itself where JC ignored all the hard questions.
 
 

While I'm sure he's an absolutely brilliant AI engineer, JC is utterly incompetent at game design.
 
With pvp as broken as it is, there were really only 3 attractions to the game: mining, industry, and building. There's a reason everyone was building their own giga factory. There's simply nothing else to do.
 
You could mine and sell ore then buy elements or mine and build your own industry. Most everyone opted for building their own industry because it's both easier and a more efficient use of time.
 
They noticed that markets weren't being used so instead of adding more content to allow players to do something other than mining and industry they simply took away industry. You can't immediately remove 50% of a game's content overnight and expect everyone to be happy. I'm honestly shocked that NQ/JC either didn't anticipate the backlash or simply didn't care.
 
What do we have now? Mine for ore, sell it,  then build stuff. There's literally nothing else in the game. No way to make money besides mining. This patch should have been deployed after implementing additional mechanics for making money. As it stands now, you mine to sell ore (at continuously dropping prices thanks to supply & demand) or you do... nothing.
 
I'm actually impressed. I haven't seen this kind of incompetence in game design since no man's sky and even that was arguably more fraud and deceit than incompetence.

I dont need to be lectured by you.  I am NOT stupid. I know there are goals to reach, Im not expecting to 'just have it'. No where do I state that I expect to get everything now - I am simply explaining what it is like for a newbie player, right now after the patch.  There is literally nothing to do but mine. It sucks.  
 
 

Well what can I say that others have not.
 
 
I'm not rich, like to solo so I guess Nova don't want folks like me about any more so I'll take the hint.
 
Un-Subbed and Un-Installed.
 
Good luck with the direction you are going in but really not for me.

Hey JC, do you actually play your own game?
 
How much of your castle did you manufacture yourself?
 
How much of the materials for your castle did you mine yourself?
 
Have you ever mined T5? How much T5? Did you feel that mining T5 was enjoyable?

I'm a week into the game, super enjoying it, addicted even.
 
New patch has arrived, I like the concept of a harder path to mega industry, get it, understand it. However for a new player it's completely killed it, gutted.
 
It's impossible for me to afford just the basic of industry items. I have 90k quants. Answer is to go mine, sell, mine, sell etc. I get it, go earn it but that's not fun. Games are meant to be fun. I already have a job, I don't want two. 
The other issue is current wealth. The older, richer players can just buy their way out of this and be up and running in days/weeks, for me it would take months/years. Again no fun and massively unfair. 
 
Fun has been removed, sorry guys it sucks. There must be a better fairer/more balanced way to achieve the industry goals?
 
Yes I've unsubbed. No you can't have my stuff. Have fun folks.

I’m a new player, I started about 2 months ago as a way to escape the drudgery of the current endless Covid lockdowns.
When I signed up for Dual Universe, I was inspired by the idea that I could take the game at my own pace and build a world for me, in the way that I wanted, that I could explore space and build amazing things.  I don’t class myself as a gamer, I’m not interested in PvP or combat, but I I love sci-fi, enjoy escapism and being able to create.
Your game seemed to have everything I wanted, and although some elements were a bit tedious – mining, unrelenting crashes whilst learning to fly and the subsequent repairs to name a couple, I persevered because I was progressing. It felt that possibility was always within my reach, I just needed to do a little bit more, work a little harder, and that’s what kept me reaching and growing.
This new patch has, in one stroke, removed all the joy, possibility, fun and scope for new players like me.  I don’t want to be part of an Organisation – I was sold the idea that ‘I could be anything I wanted to be’.  But that’s simply not true anymore.
I implore you NQ – PLEASE think about the experience for new players, this game had such possibily and was truly inspiring. I have absolutely loved playing it and even though I couldn’t compete, or wanted to, with the big orgs it was truly great to immerse myself in this world.
You’ve created a perfect storm for new players:
Building your first ship is now out of reach. Even if you manage to build one, core & component damage now means learning to fly a ship will be impossible. Travelling to and from markets is long and dull with your free speeder as there are no territories near any markets on Sanctuary with a shuttle. Even if you do want to spend ages trailing backwards and forwards, you cant carry much. Blueprints are ridiculously expensive, so now you cannot invest your money in industry to convert your ore into usable money, as all the lower price blueprints will produce products that will no doubt flood the market, have little value, and therefore have no profit. Assuming you can get off planet, you have hours of flying to reach anywhere with ore of any significance, assuming you make it there and back in one piece now warp drives are so utterly unreachable. I didn’t sign up to a space-mining, economics simulator game -  I wanted to engage with what was sold to me through all the marketing; and that’s certainly not hours of doing nothing interesting to get nowhere.
Unfortunately, you’ve made it utterly dull, with the potential for fun so far out of reach that its honestly not worth the time or money for me.
I really hope you fix this – it had huge potential, and I honestly cant remember a game I enjoyed as much as this, but I think you’ve just shut the doors on new players and shot yourselves in the foot.
I genuinely, genuinely hope you listen to everyone and you make a success of Dual Universe, it is (was) special, I’m just gutted its been ruined for me.
 

The industry changes are too severe.
I'm not really enjoying the fact that i cant produce ANYTHING without investing millions to get my product lines up and running again.
I was in the progress of building a small production facility with only T1 ores, pures, components and finished products.
I'm not rich, with the login bonus for today, i've got 400.000.
In order to get my factory up and running now, i'll need millions upon millions. Only way to get that, is to spend god knows how many hours mining for the market instead of mining for my own production.
I dont really consider that fun or interesting gameplay.
 
So... i'm just gonna hope this gets heavily rebalanced soon or i'm gonna write off this game and move on
Damn shame, because i've just spent the last month getting to know the basics of the game and was actually starting to enjoy it.

This game does not have enough content to support this current update. The idea was a correct step but executed prematurely. 
 
This game has a lot of potential. Was really enjoying it with groups of friends that havent found a common game to play in a very long time. 
 
Its a shame really but this patch just took the wind out of the sails.. 
The only solice of content was the ability to make creative builds. There really wasnt much else going on. 
 
On top of this from what I have seen in response to this update is that developers are not listening to their player base. Which i see as detrimental and destructive to the future of the game. Ive seen this path travelled many times. 
 
I understand that it is your vision to create. But there is always the customer to consider. 
 
Personally I would of considered this patch or better yet a (different concept to create the same effect) but much further when there was more foundation support it. Like more content in general. 
 
Best of luck with your future aspects of the game. Don't turn deaf ears to your players. Perhaps i will check back on this game sometime in the future. 

207 votes.
 
https://dualuniverse.featureupvote.com/suggestions/122819/recipes-as-items-industry-balancing
 
The comments even back in October 7th were mostly negative. 
 
What is the point of this voting and commenting if NQ doesn't listen anyway?
 
So many comments explaining why this is a bad idea - back in October...and nobody gave a damn.

Care bears didn't ruin anything. 
 
It's NQ's game and they are responsible for development. 
 
The burning urge to blame a group of players for things that they have zero power over is baffling. 
 
The constant whining from people that complain about "care bears" is hypocritical to the point of absurdity. There's no greater group of whiners than these antisocial people that insist that only some people are "real" gamers. 
 
Your entire post is moaning about a group of gamers you hate that has zero control over development that you decided to blame for NQ's mistakes long ago.
 
If you think NQ is being influenced by a shadowy cabal of "care bears"...well, the idea that NQ listens to any player group at all is a bit amusing.
 
Enjoy your mindless ganking, but no one really cares about your boring whining and blaming random players that have zero control over the game's development.  
 
 

That's the biggest issue in DU.
 
Here's a joke for you - know why the game is called Dual Universe? Cause there are two universes, one that NQ thinks the game is and then one that the game actually is.
 
 
You can talk all day about planned features, planned player roles, and things that players could do in the game - but if you actually truly take an honest look at what the players really do in the game  - it's a distinctly different game.
 
If you talk about the mythical vision of building a society in space and all that - you get lost in the hopes and dreams. Do not make this mistake. Look at the game as it is today and how it works today, with the player options available today, and tell me that you still think that the patch tomorrow is the right patch at the right time.

That may be the problem.  I'm here for entertainment.  I live in an actual society.  So factories have been crippled.  Well, ok it was interesting to expand my factory and be able to create new equipment to expand my capabilities in the game but, babysitting a factory was getting a bit stale and probably wouldn't have held my interest for too much longer.  So now that has been hobbled and I'm supposed do what instead of managing my factory?  Mine?  No thanks.  Make screws and schlep them 30 km to the nearest lag fest that pass for markets?  Again, no thanks.  Maybe, take what little wealth I've accumulated and piss it away on PvP.  That could be fun but, the current combat mechanic is pretty much at the level of being a graphical text adventure.  There is so so much that needs to be added content wise before worrying about forcing specialization. 

I don't want to say this but after watching a replay of the livestream I almost feel like JC is out of touch with the actual game?  Like does he play it at all and if he does, does he get the same level of support that the masses get?  I get that he is the 'visionary' and is looking forward (like waaaay forward) of game development, but holy crap FIX the stuff that is broken.  If that doesn't get done, every thing you stack on top of it is going to be broken.  First thing to start with is CS.  If you don't think there are problems just hang out in the tech support channel in Discord.  There are people there that are paying for the game and haven't been able to log in for weeks and the ticket system is a running joke.
 
Yet they are going to do a MAJOR balancing change to industry and introduce a MAJOR new mechanic with schematics.  If this doesn't have disaster written all over it, I don't know what does.  How much do you want to bet linked containers gets broken (again) when this is launched.  I mean I still have random lock ups of industry machines that can't be resolved unless I pickup and replace the unit.
 
I also get the 'bug' where the game just freezes for a couple min. then goes back to being usable.  The 'fix' for this is to reboot my computer.  Sounds reasonable but holy crap there are some nights I have to reboot 2-3 times, and that is just not normal.
 
And don't even get started on the hot mess that is the anti-cheat software.  I had it go off once when I started watching Netflix.

There is one major difference. We don't 'have to be' the cog in the faceless merciless machine in DU.
 
We have a choice.
 
We can quit.

Survivorship bias.
 
I see the same thing on the official discord and reddit - the numbers are way down, a lot of the names I'm used to seeing are just gone. The two orgs I played with are dead, 60 players in one and 20 in another - and the discords are silent.
 
But hey the people who are still playing are OK with it...
 
Once again, my biggest issue with the changes is that they are putting up barriers and adding extreme levels of grind without adding any additional content.
 
JC keeps saying that industry isn't for everyone without grasping that the only reason everyone is doing industry is that industry is all there is to do. 
 
Raising the barrier to entry into industry will indeed make fewer people do industry - but there is nothing else to do. So what are they going to do? Same thing I'm doing - playing a different game.

I have a job, Why should i come home and pay to work at another? 

The problem is not just ignoring the player base but always trying to fix issues from the wrong end. This is just another example. NQ realized that players don't use the markets as much as expected (this is the good part). But instead of fixing the markets they are nerfing the industry (and maybe even mining if I read the previous posts correctly). That's an awful idea. Fixing the industry because the industry is broken would be OK. But it is actually is one of the very few working gameplay loops. Yes, there is a small chance that both, the industry and the markets will be saved. But it is more likely to lose both and in the result a lot of players. Good luck with civilisation-building without a population.

I think I might just come back to DU when there is a fully functioning civilization in place. Because building one sure as hell sounds a lot like a job now and not much like a game I’d choose to pay to play. 
 
Mine more so you can buy less. Sell to those who control the markets for a pittance. Then Rely on bots to sell magical slave potions at exorbitant prices to power the Ars Industria controlled by the mega corps. 

sound like the plot to the movie Brazil... or just real life in a few years’ time. And we all know how much fun that’ll be. 
 
jeezus the Bladerunner phrase “More real than real” just got really real. 

It's sad to say but I am afraid you may not be wrong here.
 

You're well on the path of going the way of Worlds Adrift.
 
You want to nerf industry because everyone is building their own 'Iphone' - fine - what are they going to do instead? What else is there to do instead? 
 
You want to add element destruction? Great - I'm with you. It needs to happen. But maybe just maybe pairing it with the removal of the Alt-F4 mechanic, removal of Discord support and on top of that nerfing production isn't the best idea? 
 
You think mining is too easy? Grea.....wait what....what? WHAT?! Have you mined in DU? How much? Look, ask anyone who has filled a 10L hub every two nights, there is nothing 'easy' about mining. It's boring. It's tedious. It's concentrated drudgery and one of the primary reasons I don't play DU anymore - but what it is not is 'easy' and never even in my most drunken state (and I admit I sure didn't mine sober) did I think that "Hey maybe if I couldn't link to my 10L hub mining would be better!" . In fact, when linking was broken, I just didn't play the game. 
 
Just the fact that JC thinks that linking is the issue with mining - not literally everything else - makes me lose all faith in his judgment. Of all the things wrong with mining - linking isn't  one of them. Nor is the lack  of "mining hazards"...
 
The community has over and over and over asked for constructs that can mine - empyrion style - give us drills we can put on hovers - give even bigger giant drills we can put on stationary constructs. Give us anything besides handmining because 'easy' it's not - it's at least 7th level of hell grade tedium - and 9th if you have to deal with phantom nodes and pending operations. Unless of course you take my approach, get drunk and watch netflix so that the next day you forget about how hellish mining for 6 hours straight was.
 
Unfortunately I've remembered enough of those nights over time to stop logging in to DU...and the upcoming changes and theroycrafting about the future of mining have made it extremely clear that JC does not play DU either...he may goof around in his castle - but he sure hasn't built a mega factory nor has he mined the ore to get the resources to build his giant fortress if he thinks all those things are too easy...
 
Seriously - JC just logs in - looks at all the stuff others built and his take away is that mining and mega factories are too easy? It took us weeks of drudgery......I can't even...
 
Edit: Also - cores not repairable?! Masterstroke....

Scuttling your ship so the enemy can't get it is also a rl military tactic.
 

AWW so the poor little piwarts wana gank people that cant fight back or escape and are complaining that they are destroying their stuff rather than letting the gankers get it lol good job to the combat trashers denial of loot is and must be a valid tactic the same as a pirate should be able to gank

Firstly i didnt say that , secondly hows that relevant?