Underhook

I did all the tutorials that didnt bug out before completion.  I must have forgotten about waypoints and have never used them.  I feel ashamed 

The Extraction Cartel is proud to present an in-depth, maintained, and (mostly) accurate view into the DU markets.   On this site you will be able to get a snapshot of the entire market, which local markets have the most activity, a detailed look at prices, moving averages, and volume for the Ore and Pure market, an overview of refining profitability, and base price calculation on many market items.     Please visit http://www.extractioncartel.com/

Talk to captain miller near market 7. He offers engine boosting or at least did pre .23.  

As a backer you did not buy a car. You financed the development of a car, with the hope that it would one day become a great car.

Been there!
 
I went through at least two large ships and an elevator at and near Market 17 on Alioth, but because of lag, I did not crash or take damage.
 
So the moral is, that the lag can giveth and the lag can taketh away.

Much respec to you for this post         

You put a lot of effort into the post and it is interesting.  I think its a bit narrow though.  With regards to energy, you seem to be focusing on a very small part of human history (maybe 200 years).  It is conceivable and definitely possible that all energy production could be free within the lifetime of many on the planet.  The fossil fuel industry is doing their best to stop that happening.  Before energy was a thing, the big money was in food production.

You put a lot of effort into the post and it is interesting.  I think its a bit narrow though.  With regards to energy, you seem to be focusing on a very small part of human history (maybe 200 years).  It is conceivable and definitely possible that all energy production could be free within the lifetime of many on the planet.  The fossil fuel industry is doing their best to stop that happening.  Before energy was a thing, the big money was in food production.

My favourite quote is possibly this uderstatement of the decade:

"We tried to nudge people out of this with the changes introduced in 0.23."
 
More like:
 
 
But seriously, 
 
The fact is, I was already buying an awful lot of stuff from the markets and was trying to save up for an AGG... even after playing for months in an org with over a dozen active players, not solo! ... That's why I didn't stack up wads of cash.. I was using money rather than hoarding... which was good for the economy...

A mix of local building (mainly industry elements, voxels, fuel, decorations and electronics/functional stuff) 

But the rest I was purchasing: L engines, brakes, radar, other ship parts.
 
So I find it ironic that their new system basically kicked players who were playing the way THEY wanted in the balls and effectively congratulated those who had hoarded billions of ℏ...
Absolute nonsense...

I am not sure how they are going to get themselves out of this... Who wants to fly ships made by someone they have never met.. And lets face it, the ships are not going to fly anywhere nearly as well as those in Elite Dangerous let alone be as gorgeous as those in SC...

NQ effectively Comparing this game to EVE have failed in a key area... This game is immersive on a personal level.. Eve was basically a spreadsheet management game with 3rd person almost turn by turn (due to time lag)  strategy  game and industrial simulator.

Regardless of how this game was marketed, it basically came of as a kind of minecraft on steroids... akin to Second Life... with guns... and PvP... and other people... and a bit of Space Engineers...

There is no denying that the entire civilisation will, as NQ said themselves depend on players to BUILD AND DESIGN stuff... why? becuase that is core gameplay.
At the very least, if you want to fly someone else's ship, you'll likely want to fly one by either a super famous designer in game or (far more likely) by someone in your org.

Which then basically boils back down to orgs building their own ships...

And eventually noobs will, after outgrowing their speeder, want to design their own ship, too... by using the markets to buy stuff... which is what they were doing anyway.

Then 0.23 came along...


IMO, the game will just end up back where it was. that was the natural state for a game of this nature.

I understand your reasoning and even agree with it, I don't think too many players would be hard against this, the execution of the patch was in my view.......much to be desired.

I think i will just bulletpoint:

1. Please never cram in this much to a patch again, it was the perfect storm of changes that caused players a lot of problems outside of simply just buying schematics.
2. No way in hell should a subset of players have had advanced warning of this change (even if that warning was via testing the change) in future i would reccomend that at the point of you going 'yes we are going to put this change to live' every single member of the community should know about that change the moment a single player does. In a game like wow or ff14 where players test content etc it is fine not to let the playerbase at large in on the change, it might even be preferable for the playerbase that this happen. In a sandbox this advanced notice is an incredible benefit to anyone who knows for obvious reasons.
3. Communication needs to improve, this lines up with 2 but from another angle, if you were to have given players notice of 0.23 ahead of time you would have been able to get feedback before it hurt players, the reputation of the game and your company.
4. Policy changes in support lined up with this patch......well i don't lose my head too often but last night 2 bugs totalled a ship and severely ruined another which could have been a no biggy if either we had the tools prior to patch 0.23 to  stop the ship or GM's were allowed to repair a ship and tp without a ticket.
5. mining is not a fun thing to do, really should have added missions and then added this change maybe.

 
Here’s our plan for now. We will modify the formula of the schematic prices to make it considerably more affordable for Tier 1 and still challenging and worth a commitment but less intense for anything Tier 2 or above. 
 
 
I am not sure I agree that you give anyone a challenge here, mining ore, selling to bots, buy schematics or some such loop is not challenging or engaging, don't get me wrong i understand this is a beta but can you not see how it might make folks nervous that you seem to be equating challenge with tedious grinding?

If you look at the people who probably spend days building ships, the challenge for them is getting that ship looking good and ensuring it handles well, that involves thought, skill and testing often involving multiple iterations, i would say that is a challenge and a fun one too, at least i think it is, I can't imagine a single player would class collecting t2 schematics and setting up the factory as challenging, I would again, describe this as a time sink process.


 
Agreed, might also be nice to send players emails, use discord, reddit and whatever else to advertise how players can participate, i for one was not aware of this until recently, to a point that is on me but getting community participating in this as much as possible benefits everyone.
 
 
This is great, transparency in the development for the game was a key thing highlighted for me in this patch, love this.
 
 
Having a subset of players have input into where the game is going is dangerous, look at eve for a lesson on why; players of the game are going to have their own agendas and it will be hard for all involved to discern agenda from changes directed at sincerely making the game better, also close collab between devs and a subset of players is treated with suspicion.....again look at eve as to why.
 
If these are the same peeps who were clued in to 0.23 and played the market accordingly that should be enough to give you pause for thought on whether continued collaboration with players in this fashion is healthy for the game, then again this may have been a pledge or something in one of your kickstarters or what not so i don't know how viable it is to ramp player involvement down in closed door discussions or testing.
 
Fantastic, it will be great when game is more stable to see this also removed and crashes causing element destruction, though element 'lives' have been questioned a lot, are you looking into the many forum posts and reddit posts that put forth reasoning for why this might not be the best idea?
Another question would be, will elements currently at less than 3/3 be restored as a lot of people, me included ended up with blown components thanks to various bugs including one i submitted that i think was added into this patch (warp spool down, crashed when it was < 30k, when logged back in ship was at 26kmh heading straight for alioth at less than <2su, 3 guesses to how my ship faired on that one).
 
This is cool, would be really interested to know if this is going to be expanded, something like this might be a partial answer to the reward of pvp.
This got me thinking, I thought mining units were tied to territory warfare? I am sure NQ mentioned this or JC mentioned this.
If this is the case does this mean territory warfare is going to come into the game within 2 months as well? Seems like an awful lot to achieve in just 2 months if so and I imagine territory warfare to be the thing that will dwarf the drama from 0.23 if it doesn't hit a fine balance. On one hand it is great that lot's of stuff is on its way but on the other this didn't add up to me from previous AMA's etc so would be good to get clarification.
 
Also from a communication perspective territory warfare is going to be something that needs a ton of comms pumped out or players on vacation are going to come back to plundered territories if you go down the route of making a territory trivial to conquor. Now that I think about it this seems like a ton to come in within 2 months when you consider the horrendous balancing issues that territory warfare is going to bring.

 
Anyhow overall the change shows promise that in the face of a community that is unhappy NQ is willing to reflect and adjust but on the other i felt the talent reset and quanta increase was sheer panic which ended up annoying players further, so I do hope changes in future go a little smoother.

All my criticism being said and done I do like the game, it has a lot of promise and I hope it becomes a sandbox that I can enjoy like I once did SWG

I have no issue with your vision for industry or mining because I would love to never have to participate in either activity. But you seem to have zero vision for those of use who want to be space truckers. Even with the bots there are no markets a trader can start out in and make money, especially starting out. Maybe if this is addressed in the future missions you speak of, but the grind to buy a ship is impossible when the profit will not even cover cost of fuel and god forbid making repairs while learning to fly. The number of times an element can be repaired before it is trash is not bad but poorly conceived idea that will force me to carry stock piles of parts with me everywhere. Can this please be modified so it can be repaired to full only so many times and degrades, maybe with color levels that we are already accustomed to? So after X times I can only restore to a functioning but lesser performing item? Now, I can easily look at my ship and replace parts that are in this state. Maybe if I further neglect 1x or x number of times then it is finally trash. The thing is, if I repair to 100% after I get back to my base I've forgotten what items are on their final run and I am guaranteed to be in a unrecoverable position next time I get even a little damage.  

Same here, a very loaded survey.  Not many people can make a decent survey.
Subscription runs out in Jan.  I was ify before this patch.  I realise more patches like this will be necessary.   The patch itself wont make me quit but the chaotic decision making from NQ might.

Same here, a very loaded survey.  Not many people can make a decent survey.
Subscription runs out in Jan.  I was ify before this patch.  I realise more patches like this will be necessary.   The patch itself wont make me quit but the chaotic decision making from NQ might.

I'm a set designer/decorator irl, I love to build, and I love sci-fi. Played a lot of building games, mainly modded Minecraft, factorio and space engineers. Always dreamed about a persistent universe for space engineers but it was pretty clear that simply wasn't possible with its tech.
Then came DU which claimed to have everything I wanted, building, industry and spaceships. 
Was pretty excited about it and honestly I had fun in the last 3 months, mainly because having a wife and a kid (+ work ofc) my progress is slooooow af. Now I'm a little bit upset because I doubt I can keep up with the new industry.
Also haven't touched PvP at all, to be honest by the few video I've watched this PvP doesn't appeal to me at all, so I don't care for PvP atm.
 

My vision is to make sporting events and activities and large scale locations for said ventures within the DU arena that take advantage of the enjoyable physics model that underlies hover and flying vessels. Even skydiving as a sport (my real life job) is something I can see possible in the future.
 
I also am a ship designer, however at present ship design seems to be more focused on how to haul the most ore. It is a shame that creative and artistic assets are less desired than ugly giant bricks that can carry a third world country's GDP in one flight. But this is not the fault of NQ, it is a facet of unimaginative and capitalist driven human players.
 
That is the only problem with the game right now, in my way of looking at it at least. The pure capitalists. Those who want more money and resources every day but have absolutely no intention of using those riches to make a beautiful environment for anyone else. The new patch has slowed me down briefly in my goals, but I accept that because it has also pushed a little way towards halting the pure and ugly capitalism that apparently humanity is unable to avoid falling into.

I wanted to build ships and engage in PvP.  So far I have built some ships and space stations I am very proud of.  Although thats on hold right now (of course).  I have not engaged in PvP at all.  It seems to be something you need a tight group of friends to engage in.  I might be wrong but that my impression so far.

With good mining skills and access to T1 megas, I can make ~10 million quanta per hour with these higher bot buy prices. It's freaking boring as hell but it can be a living. Made ~80mil in the past two days doing this.

Funny enough that was the reason the game didn't have creative mode in the first place.
 
I think creative mode is a mistake and solves a problem that they created with yet another mistake.

Same here, a very loaded survey.  Not many people can make a decent survey.
Subscription runs out in Jan.  I was ify before this patch.  I realise more patches like this will be necessary.   The patch itself wont make me quit but the chaotic decision making from NQ might.

Same here, a very loaded survey.  Not many people can make a decent survey.
Subscription runs out in Jan.  I was ify before this patch.  I realise more patches like this will be necessary.   The patch itself wont make me quit but the chaotic decision making from NQ might.

The questions are not applicable to me and I think many others..
 
I'm not quite ready to give up on the game but feel this update is not complete and will cause more pain that it needs to.

I joined the game on 24th of Sept.  They have very generously given me an extra month too.  
Whilst I'm frightened by the new patch I definitely believe its necessary.  I also believe that the game will need more massive rebalance patches in the future especially once PvP gets going.
The way I see it the game is still in an alpha state.  Its been sold as beta so people have beta expectations.  IMO it wont be out of alpha until territory atmo warfare is launched. Which if le-souriceau post is right wont be for 7 or 8 months.  That is when I think a lot of players would return or join for the 1st time.  I don't think there is much point getting people back before then.  To sum up, the player base has dropped because people were sold beta but got alpha, so no point getting them back until its in a beta state.  Lets hop the money does not run out before then 

I joined the game on 24th of Sept.  They have very generously given me an extra month too.  
Whilst I'm frightened by the new patch I definitely believe its necessary.  I also believe that the game will need more massive rebalance patches in the future especially once PvP gets going.
The way I see it the game is still in an alpha state.  Its been sold as beta so people have beta expectations.  IMO it wont be out of alpha until territory atmo warfare is launched. Which if le-souriceau post is right wont be for 7 or 8 months.  That is when I think a lot of players would return or join for the 1st time.  I don't think there is much point getting people back before then.  To sum up, the player base has dropped because people were sold beta but got alpha, so no point getting them back until its in a beta state.  Lets hop the money does not run out before then 

I joined the game on 24th of Sept.  They have very generously given me an extra month too.  
Whilst I'm frightened by the new patch I definitely believe its necessary.  I also believe that the game will need more massive rebalance patches in the future especially once PvP gets going.
The way I see it the game is still in an alpha state.  Its been sold as beta so people have beta expectations.  IMO it wont be out of alpha until territory atmo warfare is launched. Which if le-souriceau post is right wont be for 7 or 8 months.  That is when I think a lot of players would return or join for the 1st time.  I don't think there is much point getting people back before then.  To sum up, the player base has dropped because people were sold beta but got alpha, so no point getting them back until its in a beta state.  Lets hop the money does not run out before then 

I think so too, game designers should have to play the game at least 2 hours at a work day.. 
Also if u change one component in industry it will not fix all the Market issues, 
If u made this schematics buyable from bots, there will be big organisations that can immediantly buy all of them and made there giga factories fit in one or two days..  that isnt a balance  it would end in a heavy unbalance.. then u can imagine under the fictional assumtion, there will be two or three orgs that can achive it... they would maxamise there profits with price agreements and boom u have kartells..

so how a normal group of players can compete with mega concerns ? 
it would be much better to implement the research feature simultaneous with the schematics and make them unbuyable for the beta time, after release u have enough data to introduce the market solution for schematics

i think there are two ways to fix it, let gamedesigners play 2 hours a day the game or hire gametheory, economic experts and mathematitions