Zeddrick

*cough*  
 

If you give the bots dynamic pricing then how is that different from the buy orders players are placing which react to the economy by increasing or decreasing the buy price?  People would keep ore back when the price went down, knowing that it will rise again, and then sell into the high, knowing the price will then fall again.  But this is exactly the same as selling to other players who will do exactly the same thing (i.e. increase buy prices until the order fills).

If the problem here is that the buy orders are at D6 and not the market local to you then that sounds like a great opportunity for someone to make an ore hauling business.  You can post the sell orders and when the buy at D6 gets high enough it will be profitable for someone to take your sell order at the price you wanted and haul it to be sold.
 
I think the big problem with the player-driven economy is that it isn't really player driven at all.  We have a bunch of player driven bits but then we have a bunch of things like tile tax, mission money and ships at the UEF store which inject things at a constant level and do not change with the market at all.

IMO it would be a lot more interesting to make the *tax* respond to the market instead of just consuming quanta.  If bot orders are not injecting the quanta then there is less need to take it back out with tax, right?  We could make the TCU operate like an industry machine and tax can get paid with an item which gets crafted and put into a bay in the TCU.  Crafting would consume quanta (because schematics) but a big part of the cost would be resources.  Make it like Kergon where you can get tax tokens made from different ore types.  When the ore price drops you can make tax tokens cheaply, pushing the price of the ore due to demand.  Or people can just make tokens from what they get on the tile, meaning that a low ore price is less of a problem for paying the tile tax.
 
For missions, I think that should be part of the player economy too.  At the moment it just generates quanta and is completely outside the economy.  If too many people run a mission the reward doesn't change and there is no requirement for the missions to actually get run.  If nobody runs one of them the universe doesn't run out of anything.

I'd change it so missions pay, say, 20% in quanta and the rest in some sort of item.  Perhaps a plasma-like thing enabling certain items to be crafted?  Perhaps certain schematics cannot be researched and have to be gained by running particular missions (military versions of schematics perhaps, different mission package sizes for different item size schematics).  That way mission running becomes more dynamic -- the less frequently run missions could be the most valuable and certain missions will need running more than others to supply.

But I think this is too much work for NQ at the moment as they are busy finishing off the highly anticipated and massively game-changing dancing avatar and pet features ...

What bothers me is that a player can say "only 5 characters, nothing silly"  and keep a straight face.
FML.

I thought a little and I don't understand.
How do bots for T1 ore give "excessively" a lot of money. Where is it "too much"?
Let's take a rough look. To calibrate 7 flower tiles to the maximum on T1, you need to spend somewhere around 5 calibrations per 1 tile 1 time in 3 days. A total of 10 calibrations per week (the ideal is not always achievable and calibrations must be saved). In total, 70 calibrations are obtained per flower. As you can see, I'm not overbearing. Even if the skills are not at 5. If the skills for calibrations are pumped to the maximum, then we get one calibration in 3.5 hours. Total for the week 48 calibrations. As you can see, with one character at the maximum, even one flower cannot be held. So you need 2 characters. Moreover, they constantly carry and visit their farms every 3 days.
Right now I brought a load from one flower. I roughly got 470 kl of T1 ore.
Let's round up to 500.
In total, for the "simplicity" of the calculation, we get a revenue of 25,000,000 quanta - 3,500,000 quanta for the territories. On hand for 2 characters we get 21,500,000 quanta.
And now some other arithmetic. Without flying out of the safe zone, you can put these 2 characters on the ship and complete a mission for 1.8 M quanta once a day. We will assume that we will also perform 6 days.
For two characters, you get 21,600,000 quanta. Well, minus the fuel. Let the fuel go for 1kk.
Total 20,600,000 quants.
So what is the excess of income from bots? And there are generally convenient ways from tades to madis and back, when it turns out 2.7 kk per circle. And fly only 80 su.
This is the first.
Second.
If bots seem excessive to someone - make the price 20 or 15 quanta. What is the problem?
Why did I write this.
It seems to me that someone is guided more by sensations and not by numbers. I don't see any redundancy in bots compared to missions. But people have a choice of what to do. Moreover, the ore does not remain in circulation when sold to bots and is actually destroyed.

Actually a number of people I do know have sold a lot of ore gained from calibrating high tier ore.   Ore is something people hold onto it isnt always a case of selling it at least onto markets that is.  Prices are rising more recently because the mining calibrations issue may have been resolved.  Of course calibrations apply to more alts needed to sustain.
 
Either way it was overused and abused IMO.  I know of a number of people with a lot of T5's T4s (not in my org) who firmly used it.  I did wonder why they dont armour their ships etc but they holding back until CCS/Voxels are worth it again

Well I agree L cores are end game really but some factions used L cores as tiny things compared to what I think people really want for L cores is huge beast of a ship for holding the line.
 
I also dont think haulers especially mission haulers are getting killed frequently due to the silly 2SU radar range so billions of quanta is entering peoples pockets!

This is a great idea!  With part payment in cash but most of it in schematics this would make mission runningna balanced part of the economy. 
 
It would need to be implemented so that schematics are a lot harder to come by without running missions, so that mission running is needed.  If too many people run missions the rewards would be very low but too few missions being run would inflate the rewards.  The problem of mass mission running would solve itself.

Oh god!  Becareful what you ask for here.  It's bad enough that the highly important dev time during early months of the game is wasted on the sort of innane useless trash it has been.  We don't want to get another 'roadmap' in march where 'third person view' is the new titanic-deckchair-rearrangement feature and the important things are yet again untouched.

The thing about electing representatives is that we, the players, get to choose who we want to put up there to be trusted to perhaps receive inside information and not act on it.  Right now there seem to be a bunch of informal conversations going on between the developers and whoever they have struck up conversations with over the years, which is a far more flaky way to do things and far more likely to end badly when it comes to confidential information handling.
 
If someone needs to be in the position to receive this sort of information (and I think they don't this point) who would you prefer to choose them?  The players or the people who picked the ATV (at least some of whom definitely misused the 0.23 insider info)?

Make it so the more packages you have, the further away you can be seen 🍿

Hi everyone!
 
We wanted to inform you that over the past week, many accounts have been banned for involvement with Real Money Trading (RMT) and exploits.
We have stated previously that RMT transactions and exploiting are strictly forbidden in Dual Universe.
We take this topic very seriously and the penalties for this kind of behavior are of the highest level.
 
Best regards,
The Novaquark team.

We'll have to disagree on that one.  I think there definitely are enough people with enough charges to abuse it and they will.  And it will mess up the economy and by the time it does it will be too late to easily fix it.

I see NQ have updated the client so it doesn't allow calibrations on inactive tiles any more.  So they must at least be actually reading this stuff.

But that just makes it worse.  Instead of having one tile each it's actually more optimal to share with friends and have fewer tiles than it was before.  If I have a 1L gold tile and so does my friend we should leave 1 inactive and both use the other.  It will cost 1/2 as much tax and we can get exactly the same amount of gold from one through calibrations as we can from 2 because there is no limit to the number of calibrations which can be run per tile and the tile's quality has no influence at all on how much ore a calibration yields.
 
Does anyone else think this is just encouraging people to do calibration-only mining?

Upvote.  I have some things I want to deploy which need this.

A lot of people go out into the PvP zone and provide pirates with an easy kill.  Then they assume that PvP must be easy because it was easy for someone to kill *them*.
 
But just because you are bad at PvP doesn't mean that everyone else is too.  Not all pirates are friends, a lot of the time when you go out looking for a fight you find other PvP groups who will try to kill you. 
 
Often that's what people are hoping for.  Nobody will turn down an easy kill if you provide it but it doesn't mean all PvPers are gankers or doing something easy just because you did it badly.
 

I don't think we really want unlimited amounts of safezone ore flooding into the game from asteroids do we?  At some point the ore has to 'run out' to give the economy value.  Otherwise we're back to 'mining to bot orders' because so much ore is being generated that the price would drop to almost nothing if the bots didn't consume it.
 
This is a game we're playing isn't it and games are supposed to have some sort of challenges to overcome.  Unlimited safezone mining (or at least enough that everyone can find and mine stuff all the time) is not really a challenge at all.  NPCs would provide a challenge, but the premise of this particular game has always been that other players will provide the challenge.  If people don't want to fight other players in the PvP zone then how else is there going to be a challenge other than racing for limited resources against other players?  And clearly some players are embracing this and doing it.  There are some great comments in here giving advice on how to compete better.
 
A question NQ needs to answer, though, is what are they replacing the casual planet mining loop with?  Sometimes people just want to log in and play for an hour.  Mining on asteroids isn't going to be available to them.  Previously a lot of people would have done planet mining at that point.  Perhaps cut a chunk out of the meganode they're working on or just go out into unclaimed territory somewhere and dig.  There does seem to be a void here where certain types of player have nothing to do.

A lot of people go out into the PvP zone and provide pirates with an easy kill.  Then they assume that PvP must be easy because it was easy for someone to kill *them*.
 
But just because you are bad at PvP doesn't mean that everyone else is too.  Not all pirates are friends, a lot of the time when you go out looking for a fight you find other PvP groups who will try to kill you. 
 
Often that's what people are hoping for.  Nobody will turn down an easy kill if you provide it but it doesn't mean all PvPers are gankers or doing something easy just because you did it badly.
 

A lot of people go out into the PvP zone and provide pirates with an easy kill.  Then they assume that PvP must be easy because it was easy for someone to kill *them*.
 
But just because you are bad at PvP doesn't mean that everyone else is too.  Not all pirates are friends, a lot of the time when you go out looking for a fight you find other PvP groups who will try to kill you. 
 
Often that's what people are hoping for.  Nobody will turn down an easy kill if you provide it but it doesn't mean all PvPers are gankers or doing something easy just because you did it badly.
 

I see NQ have updated the client so it doesn't allow calibrations on inactive tiles any more.  So they must at least be actually reading this stuff.

But that just makes it worse.  Instead of having one tile each it's actually more optimal to share with friends and have fewer tiles than it was before.  If I have a 1L gold tile and so does my friend we should leave 1 inactive and both use the other.  It will cost 1/2 as much tax and we can get exactly the same amount of gold from one through calibrations as we can from 2 because there is no limit to the number of calibrations which can be run per tile and the tile's quality has no influence at all on how much ore a calibration yields.
 
Does anyone else think this is just encouraging people to do calibration-only mining?

I see NQ have updated the client so it doesn't allow calibrations on inactive tiles any more.  So they must at least be actually reading this stuff.

But that just makes it worse.  Instead of having one tile each it's actually more optimal to share with friends and have fewer tiles than it was before.  If I have a 1L gold tile and so does my friend we should leave 1 inactive and both use the other.  It will cost 1/2 as much tax and we can get exactly the same amount of gold from one through calibrations as we can from 2 because there is no limit to the number of calibrations which can be run per tile and the tile's quality has no influence at all on how much ore a calibration yields.
 
Does anyone else think this is just encouraging people to do calibration-only mining?

But the surface rocks don't respawn.  You'll get like 2,000 units of it and then it will be gone.
 
I agree with the rest, I didn't get an STU either.  But if I get one now I don't know if I'll even drop it.  Perhaps we should ask NQ for something else instead?

Upvote.  I have some things I want to deploy which need this.

Still waiting on my STU too. It would have been a lot more useful at launch, but still useful now for some easy natron and rent-free mining units. More to the point though, NQs constant habit of promising things, not delivering, then just quietly hoping we’ll forget really has to stop. They did it with Demeter and the wipe. They’re doing it now with blueprint snapping and STUs. It’s gotten to the point we can’t believe anything they say - and no indication they intend to change.
 

*Eats Popcorn*
 
Hello.

Agreed.  It's an example of a problem which would have been best fixed at the time when it actually mattered.
 
If NQ is actually reading this, I'd take a DAC instead of mine ...