merihim

Please have some respect for the devs. Coding DU is bad enough, being required to actually play it too feels like just kicking someone when they are already down.
 
I know how many of us feel about NQ, but please find some mercy in you for the devs - they've suffered enough without having to play DU.

I could live with the bugs and performance issues if there only would be gameplay. Currently the only reliable way to get cash for taxes are NPC missions. DU is a sub-based sandbox MMO with a main gameplay loop that would not even be sufficient for a free-to-play browser game! I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

At least we have already video explaining how the radar works.
 

they didn't, check w1zard's post in this thread, the image is taken from this article https://www.vrheads.com/8-quick-tips-and-tricks-survive-pvp-combat-elite-dangerous

it's not even a careful photoshop, you can still see the "4" from the heat etc..  quick and dirty just like everything else.   

why do you even need to resort to that to tease a feature supposedly releasing in a week, anyway?

Yeah.. The sensible way is that you get one calibration every day, but when you calibrate within that time slot does not matter since it would reset at midnight regardless.
 
And the dev logic for this is dead simple, so the way it is implemented now is just the result of laziness and not having put any effort into understanding the task. And just another example of NQ's tendency to reinvent the wheel, and somehow always manage to make a worse wheel then what everyone else is using.

A friend of mine once said "Never attribute to malice something that you can attribute to incompetence", and I think that holds true here.  It seems pretty unlikely that someone set out to break the game here, because that would be counter-productive for everyone.  But incompetence?  That certainly sounds believable doesn't it?

With the mining units, though, you aren't really meant to calibrate each mining unit every day.  24 hours was always the minimum but the intention was that you would calibrate after the efficiency starts to drop, which is a lot less frequently (Can't remember exactly, 72h?).  I expect they just picked 24 hours because it's a day and nobody complained until now because everyone was just picking them up and re-dropping anyway for the high tier and ignoring the calibration game for the lower tiers.

Seems like 22 hours would work better and not really change the max yield much.

I think DU needs a parking system like Elite: Dangerous.  You request docking permission.  And then you have 30seconds to park perfectly inside your designated spot, or the station opens fire on your ship.
 
Or the easiest solution would be for people to use their brains when they park, and don't pin someone else's ship to the platform.  But i suppose that's asking too much.

If that is true, it would mean that the whole "we have not decided yet" wipe discussion was just theatrics and that NQ has zero respect for players..

It was actually main "behind scenes" thing with whole "why 0.23".
 
24/7 players, outliners, lets call them that, at some moment hijacked whole internal/semi-internal discussion scene, doubling down on JC "no one needs to do everything", pressing JC and team with idea to actually go hard to reinforce it. I can call names actually, but don't want to go in jail again for "disinformation".
 
Anyway,  fixation idea of such players was in case 0.23 or something like that, that they FOR SURE will end up on top (because endless playtime, access to update leaks, sometimes exploits too) and will do disign, lua, industry and trading, "aristocratic" jobs so to say, while all casual plebs will be their mining slaves, buyers of their "hi-end" stuff. How nice!
 
But it backfired hard with majority of casuals just saying bye-bye, both to NQ and their planned "master race".
 
 

I would agree with you if not for one but.
The beta was needed in order to get the data, balance the parameters and catch the main bugs.
It is not correct to say that at the release they should hone and balance the main game mechanics.
In that case, let's call a spade a spade. It's not a release, it's Beta 2.
I understand that a lot of what goes on in the NQ office is hidden from us and it is possible that management is facing serious pressure from investors.
But you know. I don't care what happens in the bakery behind the wall. If I was sold bread, I have the right to demand that it be of high quality and not cause health problems. A low-quality product should not leave the walls and remain on the table at the quality control service.
Difficulties and lack of data do not justify such serious omissions. And diverse statements, for example, on MU and market bots, indicate that there was no final opinion on these issues a month ago.
The fact that alpha and beta players are less active is explained by the fact that the release does not meet the expectations of old players. And this is one of the most patient and loyal parts of the audience ira. Moreover, after the disappearance of market bots and nerf calibration, it also made it much more difficult for new players to start.
Understand. This is not criticism. It just hurts my soul. Otherwise, I wouldn't post on the forum at all. As do many of us.

When I spoke about the danger of deflation, many "experts" told me that this is correct and you should not be afraid.
Now, when the cost of T1 ore makes senseless not only its extraction with the help of units, but even more senseless its extraction on asteroids. It's just not worth the time.
So what do you say "dear experts" now? Or are we waiting for an equilibrium price at T1 around 5? It is clear that over time the price may rise. A little bit. After that, it will again be driven into the corridor of unprofitability by over-accumulated volumes.
Did we want such a "player-controlled economy"?
And which of you now "regulates" something in it?
We have a day left to see what they will do with asteroid mining in patch 1.1.
 
P.S. By the way, we now have a clear example of what happens to the economies of countries when it is controlled by amateurs and supporters of the "free" market. Correctly. Nothing good.
The advantage is that, unlike RL, people will not go out the window here. They just stop playing.

The wipe solved nothing, just like we said it would not do because of NQ never coming close to solving the actual issues causing problems in the first place.
 
And despite DU now supposedly being a released game wiped clean and all to make a fresh start, NQ is still making game breaking changes left and right with no prior warnings and some times even in direct conflict with prior statements they have made.
 
And so the list of examples where NQ is saying one thing and doing another (aka lying), grows longer by the day.
 
And on top of this there is ZERO effort made from NQ to make a game that is actually fun to play. Every change made since release has been about limiting players ability to enjoy the game, and take away their ability to build and express themselves in the game. So much for "a open world building MMO" and "make your own game" I guess..
 
So it is a wonder that people are complaining (also known as 'unbalanced feedback' that will be ignored according to NQ) and players leaving the game?
 
 
 

We've been saying this for years: stop releasing stuff, waiting till everyone assumes it's permanent (in this case, even telling people calibration spam isn't an exploit), then stealth-nerfing it (dropping it in a patch with no forewarning), and being surprised players are annoyed/leaving... and NOT adding anything new. Far better to address inflation by giving players more stuff to spend money on than constantly dialling up the grind! It would be super easy. Add some more expensive lumi colours or semi-transparent lumi, some more coloured force fields, ways to earn/buy old collectibles, element skins, XL elevators (that can cross a whole L core)... new money sinks instead of forced poverty equals fun/gameplay. I wish they'd show some imagination.
 
PS: I spent most of my 3 mill bonus loyalty TP on maxing out calibration points that I'll never now be able to use. I refund would have made sense. But hey, we're used to getting stuffed around. 

I, blinding bright am not saying they're viable, am saying by NQ Logic they, not I, still think it is viable and or are okay with this change. 
 
Deckard has shot from the hip many times since becoming a producer for Dual Universe, at the time of his statements about tiles being viable at 25l in Beta, those were during different times. Times have changed. 
 
Their stance has changed. You as a player must make the decision if a tile is worth it to mine for you, and balance that risk vs reward. 
 
This is the fun hard hitting gameplay that players crave 😅

NQ Logic: You used those skills, profited from the early game bot orders... and mining units are still viable with the game changes.
 
Also, NQ reps have said if you don't like it, and the game, don't play... when people have voiced their deep concerns. And arguably there are less and less players playing due to their attitude towards the community... so some are taking the hint. 
 
I know most of my friend group from beta keep being astounded by what more NQ can and do to squeeze life out of their game.... all while hoping they'll still change it around, we all love the idea of DU and have thousands of hours playing invested... 
 
Even falling player numbers are apparently not enough for NQ to realize that their direction is driving people away, like you can see a definitive drop with the annoucement via steam stats... its pretty clear.
 
And what happens when there is even a lower population of active players without bots? How will a new player be able to join the game and mine/make enough  to even buy parts.... from bots/market when they die off? Guess they'll just pull the lever and turn the bot orders back on? 
 
Most all games have more than one 1-2 ways to make fresh currency In game... with many games, and most MMO's rewarding players for everything to keep the endorphins kicking and players inventories full of shinies. Kill a monster? Here is some currency. Sell an item to a vendor in game? Here is some currency. Oh, you got top leader board for that arena? Here is some currency. Ah, you logged in and did your daily crafting quest? Here is some currency. Oh, you completed a quest? Here is some currency.  
 
We have... missions... and vr challenges that are different types of missions that you can only do once a day. Oh, and login bonus. 
 
Anyways done beating a dead horse. Myself and others have tried, and maybe the only thing NQ will listen to at this point is the sound of players quiting. 
 
I really hope they can make the game fun/more playable, and that by doing so creates a game with a positive churn rate. 
 
 

And dont forget more nerfs are coming:
 
", such as making crafting more resource demanding"
 
This basically means they are going to redo component costs of elements to make things cost more.  This is stuff that should have been worked out in beta. 

^^ This... NGL @Cergorach is basically 100%, acerbically correct...   If this were a 1990s fanzine run by university students spending half their time pissed and the other half high, it's exactly the sort of quality I'd expect...

but since this is supposedly a 21st century tech-based enterprise with multimillion investment, the investors must be absolutely livid with their fiscal OBLITERATION. They might as well have just taken he money outside and buried it in a landfill...

@NQ-Nyota It seems NQ has not bettered their communication skills at all and is contradicting itself again. During a lifestream Deckard mentioned that the T1 bot orders not refreshing was a bug and would be fixed. Now, it reads as if it was intended behavior...
 
Normally people say that you shouldn't shoot the messenger, well I have some choice words for Deckard and NQ-Entrophy that aren't very nice... And thus not allowed on these forums. But maybe shooting the messenger is a good idea if no messenger will want to go out here and get shot, maybe they'll send in Deckard and NQ-Entrophy as then messenger...
 
My issue isn't that I think it's bad that the T1 bot orders are gone, I think it's a good thing. But my issue is the contradicting information from NQ that streams forth from it's rotting orfice, that might not be a nice description, but it's accurate... As how else could you describe the NQ communication channel for the last couple of years. No improvement in communication dependability, first say one thing, then another, and finally do a completely different thing! Every time this happens my motivation for playing DU gets a negative tint. I needed to decide yesterday if I wanted to extend my subscription for my main, I finally went with a 1 month extension at the very last moment, that should give you some indication of how I was already feeling yesterday about DU (and that was already better then during the last couple of weeks). If I had to extend today, it might have had a different result... It looks like every week less and less concurrent players, I also see a huge slowdown of new players (new Haven tiles)... It feels like this ship is going down, or is it already sinking and is NQ trying to get as much out of it before it goes under completely?

Its so funny. For weeks it was just a bug. Stated by deckard in the first stream after launch and somewhere in discord chat too. But suddenly its intentional. 
NQs primary solution process is "Its not a bug, its a feature". Good work. 
 

Its so funny. For weeks it was just a bug. Stated by deckard in the first stream after launch and somewhere in discord chat too. But suddenly its intentional. 
NQs primary solution process is "Its not a bug, its a feature". Good work. 
 

All i do is calibrate mining units..gather my ores of my 7 Alioth tiles..make elements to sell..but the prices are to low..market prices to sell my products are to low to pay of my tile costs and schematic costs...we need bots back for t1 ores..now with my main and alts...all i do i just pay of my grid costs..and thats not why i pay montly subscriptions for my alts..game is no fun for me this way..I agree with Nick__1

I've played DU for a couple of years now and I'm struggling to find a reason to keep playing. I can't comprehend why NQ is so insistent on forcing PVP: This game doesn't have PVP, and it never has. PVP suggests both players have a chance. If I decide to  fly my hauler through "PVP" space and I get found by a pirate, I am not surviving it. I have absolutely zero chance of getting away. That's not PVP, that's slaughter.

With the market bots being removed from everywhere but Teoma and Jago, the best offer for coal on Market 6 is 10.1 q/L. So, if I want to get anything close to a reasonable price for my ore, I need to risk losing everything by flying through slaughter space.

Industry and ore are the two reasons I'm still playing. Back before NQ decided to nerf mining to death, I was hard core miner. All of these have now been removed to, as far as I can see, create "PVP". The lag is no better, AT ALL, than it was in beta. NQ told us that they were removing mining nodes because, in part, of the lag the mining tunnels caused. Well that obviously wasn't true because nothing has changed.

I contacted support 2.5 weeks ago and have heard nothing in that time. How can support be so much faster and so much better in beta than it is on release?

And don't even get me started on calibrating mining machines. I've had to create two alts and pay for their subscription just to maintain my mining machines. I have a decent coal flower and in a week it mined just under 500kL. Remember when you could mine that in a few hours? Cause I do.

Artificial speed limits when travelling through space and yet another downtime for maintenance in my prime time gaming time made me fail my first ever mission yesterday. I got to 24km away from the drop off point when it failed. Cost me 9 million quanta in quest reward and collateral that I would have used to pay for territories. Now I'm stuck. If I don't spend 8-12 hours at a time logged on, flying through slaughter space, I can't pay for my territories, and if I can't do that then I can't mine and if I can't do that then I have no money. And of I have no money then I can't pay for my territories. Territory tax - what a fantastic idea that was.

I'm seriously struggling to find a reason to keep playing, and at every turn, NQ does it's best to take away everything that attracted me to this game in the first place.

I just hope that whatever NQ decides to do.  They do it as loudly and transparently as possible.
 
Nothing sucks the fun out of a game for me, like the feeling that by playing the game, and having fun, i'm putting myself at a disadvantage.  And the only way to "play" the game properly, is to lurk on the forums and Discord trying to predict what decision or bug is going to upset the economy next.
 
 
  

Which is exactly what needed to be proven.
After 1.5 months of playing, ore prices have already dropped to 16.
This is despite the fact that many industries have not yet been fully saturated with components.
And then we go to 10.
Regarding missions - why the hell should I do something that I don't like? After all, it's not 1999 when games were linear. But even in the 90s, not all games were linear. Why the hell should I be stupid for 2-3 hours doing missions? Oh yes. This is the source of the quarts. So why is there only one source? Why are there no mining / production / destruction missions?
I don't believe they are hard to make.
This is called ill-conceived game design. It would be forgivable for a game that just went into early access. But not DU.

So the problem is about the abandonment and decay system after subscription ends. As the system stands now when a player's subscription ends a 90 day timer starts and after this timer ends this player loses ownership over any construct they own, making that construct available for claiming by others and if not claimed it just dissapears from the game after one more month. This applies for every place and tile in the universe including haven. 
 
I don't know which monkey thought that this is a good idea. I understand that leaving constructs on alioth forever can cause stability issues and lag and they need to be recycled somehow, also the planet will be filled with inactive tiles from inactive players that could be reused by new players. All that is understandable BUT a player should be able to keep their stuff if they want to take a break from the game.
 
As this system stands now whats gonna happen is players will eventually stop playing for a while, because thats what people do they don't play games forever, they quit they come back, they have lives and work. They are going to figure out they lost of their constructs and effort and what are they gonna do then? You guessed it right, leave the game and never look back. Dual universe is a big time investment. It is not a game like rust where you play for a week build stuff and then hop on a new server. This effort cannot just be deleted like this because of optimization issues. If i know that all of my effort is going to be deleted eventually then i should just quit outright, is the though proccess most people are gonna have when they figure this out. Have you seen another online game of the mmo genre do this? This seems like an intentional extortion of a sort .. "buy game time or you lose your constructs". I know that this is most likely not intented (really hope not).
 
Since i don't like talking out of my a@@ and i like providing suggestions rather that randomly criticizing someone, i am going to propose all of the solutions i can think of for this issue with prio from top to bottom in which i think would be the best.
Possible solutions:
 
1. Make game simply not load costructs of accounts with inactive game time. The tile will be taken but people will not load or see anything on it until the player buys game time again. 
2. Create an istance somewhere in the persistent universe where a player can go and store everything they own when they quit. Only visible to said player and anyone they have given rights to and not loadable by the rest, so its just data and doesnt impact the game stability. 
3. Reduce number of HQ tiles to one per player but make this one tile be untoutched forever. Or give a main HQ or something for this reason. 
4. Create a new dump planet/moon where players dump their stuff when they quit. 
5. This one is the worst idea but is acceptable. Increase inactive time from 3 months to 2 years and not less. And no 6 months is not enough. People quit for 6 months and come back. 
 
My conclusion is that this change cannot wait. People are going to quit over this and never come back. if u wait for 3 months before implementing this and ppl lose their constructs they are gone. After one year at most the game will be dead. I was one of the first people to warn you about patch 0.23 back in the beta and guess what exactly what i said happened. This time around there won't be a "release" to save your asses if you botch this again. Consider yourselves warned.