Cybob19

Are Schematics truely so unpopular? It gates people from building massive factories with no sense of economies. It would make everything sell at Ore value vs  actual value because everyone wants to sell fast and get money now cratering a possible stable economy into the ground. or just make the only viable thing to sell on market is ore because everything else i can just make myself with minimal investment.

If ther eis a full wipe (which i would prefere) then there should be a way to regain the old talent points, because thats bascially what ppl paid for. Be it that they get all their TP back 2 months or so into the game, or an increase in TP/hour until the "legacy TP-pool" is empty or whatever.

Why do they want to remove the schematics again? That is one of the only reasons why we got trading in this game <.<

I am all for a partial wipe where the economy is reset, quanta + talents are removed, but all elements on constructs are removed as well.
That way old players still have the honeycomb hulls of their constructs as a base for rebuilding everything.
As a builder and this is the one I would be most happy with, as replacing elements is far less painful than replacing honeycomb.

.

Wiping talent points is entirely unecessary from a technical perspective, and frankly a slap in the face.

First of all how better to prove NQ's word doesn't mean anything. I waited like one and half year to reach buffs on T3 ore and products. I don't know who they intend to sell this game to, but my life expectancy is like 70 years. One and a half year of my life is not something I can just pull out of a magic hat, and I spent them freaking WAITING to get those points.

I feel like none of you seem to realize that if they wipe talent points, the first month is so asininely predictable, one was to wonder what the fück one is playing for: "great I know that if I maintain 90xp/min, 30 days from launch I can have either decent inventory buffs, either decent MU buffs, either decent mining buffs, or maybe I'm able to operate most industry elements, or place cores of all sizes....... but 30 days from launch it will be either a single one of those choices, or being between lvl2 and lvl3 in all of these".


When it comes to DU I've had the patience of a saint, but again: why would I put in 30 times 4 hours if I can extrapolate to the liter where I'd be  30 days from then, if I stick to my boring AF plan. You people seriously want to live through that for such a short-lived high? I joined the alpha like 4-5 months before the launch... I restarted in this game 3 times in a row within a year, because somehow they had to wipe a month before launch. Seriously it's not that fun, I don't think I can do it anymore, if I'm quickfeeted my goal should then be to convert the DAC I'm owed in to real life currency, cut my losses. More realistically I'd just stop looking and caring, probably.



And what about the people who were rewarded XP for bringing people into the game with referral codes? Just a slap to the face.

Wiping talent points is entirely unecessary from a technical perspective, and frankly a slap in the face.

First of all how better to prove NQ's word doesn't mean anything. I waited like one and half year to reach buffs on T3 ore and products. I don't know who they intend to sell this game to, but my life expectancy is like 70 years. One and a half year of my life is not something I can just pull out of a magic hat, and I spent them freaking WAITING to get those points.

I feel like none of you seem to realize that if they wipe talent points, the first month is so asininely predictable, one was to wonder what the fück one is playing for: "great I know that if I maintain 90xp/min, 30 days from launch I can have either decent inventory buffs, either decent MU buffs, either decent mining buffs, or maybe I'm able to operate most industry elements, or place cores of all sizes....... but 30 days from launch it will be either a single one of those choices, or being between lvl2 and lvl3 in all of these".


When it comes to DU I've had the patience of a saint, but again: why would I put in 30 times 4 hours if I can extrapolate to the liter where I'd be  30 days from then, if I stick to my boring AF plan. You people seriously want to live through that for such a short-lived high? I joined the alpha like 4-5 months before the launch... I restarted in this game 3 times in a row within a year, because somehow they had to wipe a month before launch. Seriously it's not that fun, I don't think I can do it anymore, if I'm quickfeeted my goal should then be to convert the DAC I'm owed in to real life currency, cut my losses. More realistically I'd just stop looking and caring, probably.



And what about the people who were rewarded XP for bringing people into the game with referral codes? Just a slap to the face.

Do the planet revamp if you must, I can live with that, especially if the end result slaps and is able to integrate further changes more easily, however that could even be envisioned big questionmark.
 
That still does nothing to put players starting the game in 2025, in a better position.
 
I can tell you that if you do a grand relaunch my tolerance for throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks will be next to non-existant... Why the schematics now, just how do you intend to avoid us going back to arbitrarily wide assembly lines?
 
I'm sorry but that text didn't seem like a snippet of a much larger discussion it felt repetitive and vague. Wipe if you "must" (...) best of luck. But I will not constantly remind myself to be patient. I sure hope you know what you're doing for your own sake.

I have been thinking a lot about this in the past days. I guess many of us have. This is the last I'll say about it.
 
Some approach a no-wipe by giving arguments, some by ultimatums, some by expressing how they feel, some disappear in silence, some undergo it, and some approach it by bargaining: your wipe is ok if you leave me with this; thinking to compromise.
 
The pro-wipe people on the other hand have yet to present to me a convincing argument. Everyone agrees that a wipe will resolve symptoms, for some time, but, in the end, that it wouldn't resolve the underlying issues. Thus, history will repeat itself (mark this). NQ could still make mistakes (e.g., radar in PTS just recently) affecting us, and that can't be prevented, it is the nature of development. People will still exploit these mistakes, it is the nature of people, and should be punished for it if they could have known better.
 
Hence, I need to conclude that the only real reasons for a wipe, from the player-base's perspective, are competitiveness, seeing the world burn, not caring, trolling, ignorance, aside from technical reasons that are parroted, of which I have said before: any good technical reason would result in a statement from NQ that there would be a wipe and to what extent. And that is not what we got.
 
Nevertheless, I get NQ's point of view .. it is about minimizing collateral (us) on the prospect of new players at launch, but also old players that gave up somewhere along the way, most notably around 0.23. They might be convinced of the need to promise a leveled playing field at launch, given the state of the game today, while not angering its community too much not to lose those that actually play the game, and organize fun in it.
 
Some propose a poll in here ... I think the poll is being executed by this post of NQ (like they did through previous ambiguous announcements). Else, if that wasn't its purpose, I don't get it. Not only has it sowed discord, it has created distrust, is ineffective, is giving people time to reconsider things and move on, killed the incentive to play the game, and what not. Whatever NQ's ultimate decision would be, this post has done much more harm than it could have done good. That's why I said in #duscussion that NQ is probably watching the channel with a big bowl of popcorn, as all of this is either incredibly shortsighted or intentional, and how can it not be intentional?
 
But, NQ: IF you had just laid out your concerns, instead, and the fact that you don't have a good solution, without any hint as to what you would/could decide or implement it. That would have been constructive as it would help people see your point of view, and you would have gotten a response much less driven by emotion (or have casted people in emotional roller-coasters). This could have helped you see what your community thinks about it (who have all been new players at some point), rather than making them angry at you and each other. Furthermore, timing ... you are running a PTS for an update, in the Easter period. Why not wait until after for such an announcement, so you could actually provide clarity in due time, instead of letting us hang.
 
By now, there have been many logical arguments against a wipe (aside the list of promises made or hinted at by NQ) to be found in this thread (ranging from technological reasons to commercial implications). There is no point in repeating all of them.
 
I think the most notable one is that there will remain a need for a continuously leveled playing field in the future, not solved by a wipe. Thus, a wipe without the required changes for equalizing things doesn't make sense, and when these changes are in place they invalidate the need for a wipe. This is pure logic. However, people don't always follow logic, and thus even under these changes NQ might need to convince new players with the prospect of a fresh start. What can I say, they run a business.
 
But, NQ, note that for this equalizing, in society, we have tax systems, like a non-linear tax on capital and income. If in DU linked to the daily income system, this would effectively level the playing field. This leveled playing field is also why in society we guide our economy's inflation, to give active people an advantage over non-actives, to give newer players an advantage over older ones, to devaluate capital that goes unused. And thus, to renew the economy continuously. Add to that degradation of property and maintenance (by reducing your HP counters over time), and what you get is a real economy that can be tuned through taxes and minimum/maximum prices. Recall that with such an approach you wouldn't have needed construct slots either (as I said then). However, by the time people can propose solutions, you have already implemented/developed your solution, which you introduce, and which then can only be weakened or strengthened, based on the community's response. But from which you can no longer pivot.
 
Note that NQ's approach in this announcement is similar to before (and after some examples of the kind can only be concluded to be intentional too), with construct slots the most recent example. They make a statement which is infuriating to some and then revert it back a bit so that people feel acknowledged, reaching an end-point which would not have been accepted otherwise. It is NQ's one-sided bargaining with the community. Or rather (emotionally) manipulating the community. And that's abusive to those that don't see the manipulation, and insulting to those that can.
 
At the very least by it, we feel agitated, deceived, manipulated, stopped playing, or quit the game to convince you, NQ, that you shouldn't take us for granted and treat us like this. People that have been with you for a long long time, have promoted you, and have walked the path you have taken us through highs and lows. People that are mostly silent. People that understand compromise, that things change, and above all that want this game to grow. People that only ask for openness, clarity, and a bit of respect for their time and money.
 
I know, none of us individually matter. Whatever I do as a consequence of whatever decision NQ takes, it won't be felt nor by NQ nor the community. So, I'm not gonna give an ultimatum, nor be angry, or try a tactic to have you don't wipe. I will not try to move the public opinion in any way. I think I'm in a state that is much worse .. I don't care anymore. My relation with you NQ has changed, and it won't be fixed easily. I don't trust you anymore. You had once this resolution that you would stick your ground, that you would live your vision, which made me feel safe to invest my limited time in, for which I would have compromised a lot. But Yama said it: this has turned into an abusive relationship; and the best thing you can do in that case is cut your losses and live with the hurt. TBH, NQ, you have just turned from the company I am a customer of (and do business with), into my dealer: I have a hard time trusting you, but you sell me something I like too much to give up on yet.
 
To NQ. Thank you. I'm grateful although it might not have sounded that way. The visionaries, the developers, and community managers alike. I'm convinced you want the best too. So, let's see what you do.

To NQ. I challenge you (if you dare) along with the entire community to solve The Metacomplex (vr) puzzle.
No one ever has, I think no one can (without cheating), and when wiped, likely no one ever will.
 

Honestly, I really hope that, no matter what decision NQ takes, from now on they take exploits more seriously. This is what pretty much left us on this shitty state of needing a wipe, in first place.
 
Mission implementation was a mistake, sure, and they really seem to be fixing it with Athena, which is cool, but stuff such as the "flash blueprint sale" of last year really deserved a rollback, and sure it was something simple NQ could have done, rolling back the world in a few minutes or just removing those items. Now, talking real exploits, such as item duplication, infinite container range, those who actively use them should face harsher sanctions, either by having their assets removed or being banned (along with their alts too, to prevent laundering). Why has it taken so long while in cases such as Market 15, where the offsense was much smaller, NQ took action so fast?
 
Anyways, I'm okay with wiping the whole world back to zero for release, maybe just leave some talent points in our accounts as a "reward" for our time in beta or something, but please, NQ, take action when players abuse exploits. It's not fun for anyone and this WILL have lots of consequences when mechanics such as Territory Warfare come up.

Wiping talent points is entirely unecessary from a technical perspective, and frankly a slap in the face.

First of all how better to prove NQ's word doesn't mean anything. I waited like one and half year to reach buffs on T3 ore and products. I don't know who they intend to sell this game to, but my life expectancy is like 70 years. One and a half year of my life is not something I can just pull out of a magic hat, and I spent them freaking WAITING to get those points.

I feel like none of you seem to realize that if they wipe talent points, the first month is so asininely predictable, one was to wonder what the fück one is playing for: "great I know that if I maintain 90xp/min, 30 days from launch I can have either decent inventory buffs, either decent MU buffs, either decent mining buffs, or maybe I'm able to operate most industry elements, or place cores of all sizes....... but 30 days from launch it will be either a single one of those choices, or being between lvl2 and lvl3 in all of these".


When it comes to DU I've had the patience of a saint, but again: why would I put in 30 times 4 hours if I can extrapolate to the liter where I'd be  30 days from then, if I stick to my boring AF plan. You people seriously want to live through that for such a short-lived high? I joined the alpha like 4-5 months before the launch... I restarted in this game 3 times in a row within a year, because somehow they had to wipe a month before launch. Seriously it's not that fun, I don't think I can do it anymore, if I'm quickfeeted my goal should then be to convert the DAC I'm owed in to real life currency, cut my losses. More realistically I'd just stop looking and caring, probably.



And what about the people who were rewarded XP for bringing people into the game with referral codes? Just a slap to the face.

Wiping talent points is entirely unecessary from a technical perspective, and frankly a slap in the face.

First of all how better to prove NQ's word doesn't mean anything. I waited like one and half year to reach buffs on T3 ore and products. I don't know who they intend to sell this game to, but my life expectancy is like 70 years. One and a half year of my life is not something I can just pull out of a magic hat, and I spent them freaking WAITING to get those points.

I feel like none of you seem to realize that if they wipe talent points, the first month is so asininely predictable, one was to wonder what the fück one is playing for: "great I know that if I maintain 90xp/min, 30 days from launch I can have either decent inventory buffs, either decent MU buffs, either decent mining buffs, or maybe I'm able to operate most industry elements, or place cores of all sizes....... but 30 days from launch it will be either a single one of those choices, or being between lvl2 and lvl3 in all of these".


When it comes to DU I've had the patience of a saint, but again: why would I put in 30 times 4 hours if I can extrapolate to the liter where I'd be  30 days from then, if I stick to my boring AF plan. You people seriously want to live through that for such a short-lived high? I joined the alpha like 4-5 months before the launch... I restarted in this game 3 times in a row within a year, because somehow they had to wipe a month before launch. Seriously it's not that fun, I don't think I can do it anymore, if I'm quickfeeted my goal should then be to convert the DAC I'm owed in to real life currency, cut my losses. More realistically I'd just stop looking and caring, probably.



And what about the people who were rewarded XP for bringing people into the game with referral codes? Just a slap to the face.

I feel like radar activities should get sort of a complete rework, but since I have not used these system a lot or at all, I never dared to make suggestions:
 
I think the current 2 SU can be okay, but only for a radar that scans spherically.
 
There should be other scanners that are far more involved like scanning cones or planes, they could reach much further... The narrower the search angle the wider the reach, the more volume scanned the longer delay between two scans. But also, importantly, scans don't cross planets or atmospheres (for the really far reaching ones).
 
It's a very rough draft, but what if we made it more like guns, a certain number of different radars can be plugged into a seat. And the act of scanning more involved, cones need to be pointed, spheres can be enlarged at the cost of less frequent updates, planes can be rotated (scanning vertically, horizontally and everything in between).
 
The radar user would sort of have an overlay ingame, with sliders for each radar for finetuning (reach, angle, width, refresh rate etc), and their camera position would factor in as well.
 
Possibly the main radar guy could also relegate his data to gunner seats but that's less important.
 
 
And the DSAT you'd sorta make it like a territory scanner, after like 10-15minutes it tells you how many asteroids, mobile and imobile structures are in a sector (something like 30x30x30 SU).
 
 
 
Sry I'll stop now, I obviously don't know enough about this to make really good suggestions but maybe I gave somebody else a better idea.

Ah, but Aphelia has watched your kind fail over and over. Trial after trial, age after age; that persistent hubris has been your undoing each time. Far more times than you know, pitiable and tragic  Icarus’, one and all…
 
Despite knowing the pitfalls and short comings of your species’ tribal nature, even with the knowledge of your predecessor’s mistakes, you failed to manifest even the slightest semblance of the utopia you sought to create.
 
This time will be different - the Silicon Mother is certain of that. Praise be this new and final age, oh empty vessel.
 
Dundundun…

I had a similar premise in my head cannon. The difference was that humanity entrusted AI to see us through the cosmos until we arrived at a habitable planet. Afterwards, we were supposed to be reconstituted and slowly introduced to the new seat of human civilization they had set up for us.
 
Unfortunately, humanity’s old grudges and prejudices reared their ugly heads again and our benefactors wiped the slate clean after it was determined that if we remembered our former lives, we would surely destroy ourselves vying for supremacy.
 
After numerous small batch social experiments (like GLaDoS in portal lol) it was determined that our memories must be erased and all “unsafe” history deleted for our protection. What a mind fudge it would be to learn that we were actually the XXXth attempt at rebuilding humanity, but aphelia time and time again wipes us out because we became unworthy and self destructive.
 
That would give a lore reason for us not having talents at the start of the game, along with any hand holding after being rezzed the first time. It would also explain any mysterious ruins we’ve found, without actually having to introduce aliens. Why things we encounter seem advanced beyond our present capabilities, yet strangely intuitive and familiar.
 
Over time, we would uncover the truth about what aphelia had done to us and be forced to align with her or rebel/go off world to assert our autonomy.

There is no problem at all. Its literally a post-scarcity market utopia when the costs of manufactured goods is less than the cost of materials. It just can't get any better than that.

Are you ready for some PTS fun? Then join us on April 1st for our Fool’s Defense event!
 
Think you have what it takes to take down our Novaquark space station? Will you dare to be so bold as to attempt to try and destroy a station that has a Novaquark crew commanding it? We dare you, in fact we triple dare all of you to try your best shots!
 
When: Friday, April 1st 14:00 UTC Where: PTS Server  Who: All Noveans are welcome  
HOW THIS EVENT WORKS
 
Come test the Athena update with the devs! Join us on the PTS server at 14:00 UTC on April 1st. (Not a joke)
Upon logging in to the PTS server, players will need to head to one of these locations:
Alioth’s Institute facility (::pos{0,2,28.9207,95.1440,285.7015}) in order to teleport to 
PvP Platform 1 (::pos{0,0,-2064601.9141,-1118885.7306,-120876.5855}) where you will be able to claim a ship, weapons and ammunition there to prepare for the fight to come!
 
From there, you’ll be able to get equipped and meet up with your team members, or create your own groups to organize your plan of attack and prepare for the battle. Alternatively, you can bring your own ships to recruit a team or bring your friends!
 
Be aware and plan for sabotage or traitors, willing to take on the community in defense of NOVAQUARK! Remember, this will be in PvP space, where everyone is fair game. A Resurrection Node will be publicly available to all, at the PvP Platform.

PRIZES, WHAT ABOUT PRIZES?
 
Winner(s) will then have a chance at spinning the Wheel of Foolish Fortune for their chance at some great (and not so great) prizes. The wheel will randomly decide!
The items rewards will be given on the regular beta server.
 

 
Stay foolish, captains!
 
Give us your thoughts on this event here!

Damn @CptLoRes .. How did you figure that out so fast
 
I'd say I'm pretty much spoonfeeding what I believe to be a very viable alternative in context to where the game is right now, yes..

So basically you are trying to dumb down electricity and power generation to a level simple enough so that you think/hope NQ would be able to implement it in a reasonable time-frame?

Let us have a final go at it so we can say at least we tried to make ourselves clear.
 
I agree to a degree that things should balance themselves out in the realm of newtonian physics, just not quite convinced there is a way to spin the numbers where the solution isn't allways to just throw more elements at it = better ship. The elements are allready such that scaling them up in numbers doesn't exactly feel fun.
 
Ideally we'd want some sort of triangular relationship à la rock-paper-scissors, where one can at best optimize towards a side of the triangle, but never all three corners. The first two corners are fairly obvious: mass and thrust... And it would appear the third corner of that triangle is going to be core size, which by itself is frankly not enough. This is not originally my idea but somebody proposed this once and I honestly think it's genius:
 
Let's say the cores have speedcaps like XS 29k S 28k M 27k L 26k kmh softcap. I expect we will get something like this. But to make it good every ship should be able to go 30k kmh, if they keep their thrusters on! The "soft" speedcap, would be max speed in inertia, anything beyond the softcap would require constant thrust and scale up very much with our newtonian physics as described by blazemonger in the opening post. Then our ability to fly 30.000kmh has a second tie-in into weight, and the triangle is closed.
 
 
 
That would be the base of the system, and should hold up on it's own. Then only can we think about shield and stasis weapons. I think shields should make speedgains past the soft cap more difficult, and be super susceptible to stasis weapons, and stasis weapons should create "drag" (way more in case of a shield) but ultimatively be able to be "outhrusted" what's a single S stasis canon gonna do against 4500kt right?!
Though maybe in that case make it such that small ships get dragged away if confronted with overwhelming thrust / are able to let themselves be pulled by their victims.

-.- can we please wipe so the guy who hasnt read a devblog for 16 months blesses us with his presence for two and a half weeks
 
what was it can't turn a profit turning ore into intermediaries or some other thing nobody needs help for, or are you convinced all juicy spots are allready sucked dry...?
 
Sorry for the salt but I'd be surprised if it wasn't one of these reoccurring easily debunked memes.

What was the first argument/reason?  Just removing constructs from sanctuary, that could easily be removed with abandonment?
 
They just reset the planetary terrain.  And they could do it again if they needed too.  Although it seems unlikely after all the trouble they went to helping people dig out their underground bases.  If they were planning to wipe that would seem like a pretty big waste of dev time.
 
Even if they did need to do another terrain wipe, there's no reason they would need to wipe Quanta.  And I don't see why they would need to redistribute the ore pools, or unclaim territories either.
 
If it can easily be done without a wipe, it isn't an argument for a wipe.
 
There is currently no reason to wipe progress, except to provide another "fresh start".  And doing that after they already sold the experience once would be dishonest, but more importantly it devalues their product.  Who wants to play a persistent world game that gets reset every time it might be more profitable?
 
You keep claiming that there's no such thing as a "level playing field" but resetting territory claims and Quanta and schematics would be a huge leveling of the playing field.
 
If you don't think NQ has any intention of leveling the playing field, or you think that's not what anyone is asking for (despite the OP clearly asking for it), i don't understand why you keep desperately grasping at reasons for it to happen.
 
 

I got sidetracked so i actually forgot to argue my main point.
 
From an economical standpoint NQ needs to attract new players in large numbers as quickly as possible, no argument against that.
But even from NQ's perspective there is still value in the old players. And that is to show player retention in the game. Point being there is little use in wiping for new players, if the current core game mechanics are unable to keep even the more dedicated backers from leaving. And I have yet to see any sensible argument for how a wipe will solve the core mechanics of this game.
 
I.e. any short term advantage gained from a wipe that might attract new players, would quickly be lost once they discover how little actual game player there is. And we all know it is MUCH harder to get someone back, once they leave. And the community and youtube backlash would become even worse then what it already is today. So in my opinion it would be in NQ's best interest to avoid any draconian measures for attracting new players, until the game retention is proven to be  drastically improved. And ironically I suspect that if NQ ever manage to make such a game, then there would no longer be any need for a wipe either..
 
Edit: So the only wipe that makes sense to me, is a wipe that would be required to introduce large sweeping changes that would drastically improve the game. And that is what I think NQ meant, when they said then they would like to avoid a wipe as long as it was technically possible.

It's the same game with the same market dynamics. But next time everything will bz different I swear you just don't get it.
 
Explain it instead of doing condescending conjecture.
 
We get the money point, I'm happy to pay subscriptions but they can't release something so unfinished.
 
 

I think some people are more interested in making predictions, and being right, then having an honest discussion about why NQ would wipe.  And whether it would be good or bad for the game, in the long term.
 
I'm very much aware that NQ could decide to wipe.  That's why i'm here discussing it.  But i only see one reason that they would consider it, and it's to provide the "fresh start" that the OP is asking for.
 
Launch, and the first few days/weeks after the final wipe is a HUGE deal in persistent world games like this.  People want to be there for it.  They will pay to be there for it.  They already paid to be there for it.
 
It's entirely possible NQ might be tempted to sell that product again.
 
And with absolutely no other reason for a wipe, that's exactly what they would be doing.  Selling out the game's future for a quick cash-grab.