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How far can empires expand till they colapse and if there are possible ways to prevent such things in DUAL.

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So as the topic says how far can our Empires expand till they become too hard to control and maybe with time collapse or fragment and is there ways to prevent such things from happening, maybe splitting power.Btw i see a lot of the groups that have been made post launch collapse from many things and then having abandoned Citys or towns.

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That's a hard topic, since for the most part these collapses are caused by players if I'm understanding you correctly, so I don't think there is any programmable way to PREVENT collapses, but on the abandoned towns and cities aspect, I think you should be able to capture/destroy these bases even if its not abandoned, as that should keep people on their toes.

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If you plan it correctly and everyone plays nice then they could expand indefinitely. Players splitting off and taking parts of an empire with them would be really the only cause of an empire breaking up or something, possibly a war as well, but its totally up to the players and planners of an organization.

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To me it's a non-issue because you don't want any one faction to dominate for too long. History has many examples of large empires collapsing due to their size and not being able to maintain power in all their territories. 

 

Of course, this is really in the realm of emergent gameplay if you think about it, it's not up to the devs what happens to empires. I'm also fine with there being some abandoned cities left over from a fallen empire. Imagine flying in and exploring one and maybe deciding to get some friends together to revive it. 

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To me it's a non-issue because you don't want any one faction to dominate for too long. History has many examples of large empires collapsing due to their size and not being able to maintain power in all their territories. 

 

Of course, this is really in the realm of emergent gameplay if you think about it, it's not up to the devs what happens to empires. I'm also fine with there being some abandoned cities left over from a fallen empire. Imagine flying in and exploring one and maybe deciding to get some friends together to revive it. 

 

Imagine if the automated defenses still worked; gotta fight your way into the control center to shut off the turrets and claim the city  :D

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Imagine if the automated defenses still worked; gotta fight your way into the control center to shut off the turrets and claim the city  :D

 

Ugh, I really want to play this game. Like now.  :lol:

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I'm guessing how big you can span your empire depends on the people you have. If you have a large group with dedication and a good chain of command it could last a fairly long while but could easily collapse due to inactivity and members not playing their part.

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It's a bit like asking: "How long can I lift these weights? How can I prevent eventual exhaustion?"

 

And the answer is: That depends. On you. And in the context of the topic many other things.

 

In the end, it is natural selection and causality at work. You could also consider physics. What goes up eventually goes or comes down again. Larger player groups , depending on their structure and 'quality control' are often more fragile, but certain small groups could be just as well.

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Politics will be heaps of fun, seeing how we interact with each other. And from reading these forums you can start to see some of these politics come into play already, alliances and coalitions being formed and people getting opinions of others.

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Can't wait for empire rivalry's, will be fun to see the banter thrown at each other and resources exhausted fighting memorable battles 

Same overhere

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I'd agree that this falls in the realm of the emergent politics of the game, being completely player dependent. As far as advice to that effect, it really depends on the situation.

 

You could have an empire which has simply over exerted use of its forces in expanding its sovereignty, so it should consider shrinking its borders.

 

Or there could be a power struggle in which a general challenges the ruler for control of the empire, possibly resulting in a split of control if one side does not completely dominate the other.

 

Or the empire could be entrenched in a war with a rival. It should probably get its head in the game in this case.

 

But this isn't something the devs should do anything to either develop or prevent. It will simply happen on its own.

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I do not get the whole "coup" or "trying to obtain leadership with force" thing however. RP completely aside. How will one do that proper or effectively if someone has all the technical rights, runs the virtual assets, etc.? Most of the time I can't see a proper effective way to do this unless that "ursurper" has sufficient rights already or intends to fill any potential holes with their own version.

 

What is more likely is that there will be some splinter factions that become their own separate entities. In short, full power grabs including all assets are rather unlikely.

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https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/296-devblog-territory-control/

 

Now, a few words about war. You can get control over a territory by "convincing" its owner or administrator to give a delegation to you, or, more traditionally, you can enter it, find the territory unit, destroy it and plant your own, or simply hack it. Expect it to be well hidden and well defended. Territory Units can also be grouped into centralized territory units: getting access to those can grant you control over several tiles at the same time, but of course they will be harder to conquer. Setting up a territory unit can take up to 24 hours, so the process of changing tile ownership is not an easy matter. By default, all delegations will be preserved in case of a change of ownership (which can also happen peacefully via selling), so you need to review the status to decide if you want to keep or break previous delegations. Delegations, like power granting, can come with warranties, so be careful of the price to pay before revoking past commitments.

 

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My bad, in fact. I did not clarify.

 

I wasn't referring to ingame mechanics or occurrences with my last post and rather thinking about assets that exist beyond the game. And while gameplay matters, these out of game assets are usually both substantial for an organization(forums, voice comms, etc) and yet often out of touch for potential "ursurpers".

 

Like a hard barrier you often cannot (easily) overcome. Meaning that you have do branch out there at the latest.

 

Better example: you suffer internal org struggles. Someone or some faction tries to "coup". While you can take over assets or sabotage them ingame, how can you fully do the same on a forum, etc, if someone can shut down access or close the money sink keeping the sites afloat?

 

To summarize, my point is that these scenarios usually require some sort of asset replacement beyond the game if you want to "take over". Usually someone holds a tight grip on out of game assets so you may as well branch out and do you own thing.

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I think first there will be warlords that take over smaller warlords intill they eventually make a city then nation then empire

 

possably but I think it would be more likely that they take over the other warlords territory and as they get bigger more people join because they want a part of the action and land that the warlord has.

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This is a very, very complex question, with both intrinsic and extrinsic factors to take into account:

 

Off the top of my head:

 

Intrinsic (In-Game Variables).

The volume of space occupied (simplest being spherical). I guess this would be inversely proportional to the cube of the distance?

How far do troops and/or resources have to travel?

How many troops for each cubic light year of space?

How occupied is each standard volume (x number of cubic light years) and is this homogeneous around the Universe?

Time taken to counter incursions. Mobilizing troops and travel time?

The number of Allies involved?

The number of enemies on your borders and their population densities?

 

Extrinsic (Real Life Variables).

Communicating with players, absent or otherwise.

 

All our history has dealt with Empires being two dimensional in nature due to the Earth's surface. Space? Solar/Stellar Systems .... mind blowing!!!

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I'm guessing how big you can span your empire depends on the people you have. If you have a large group with dedication and a good chain of command it could last a fairly long while but could easily collapse due to inactivity and members not playing their part.

"Or greed. Cold, merciless greed. Revenge. Emotionless, thoughtless revenge. Mischief. Stupid, silly mischief. Empires will last long enough as the leader knows who to trust, who not to annoy, who's good at what and knows how to dance the macabre diplomatic ballet extremely well."

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I'm guessing how big you can span your empire depends on the people you have. If you have a large group with dedication and a good chain of command it could last a fairly long while but could easily collapse due to inactivity and members not playing their part.

 

 

This seems to be the most logical reason for an empire to collapse. You can try to "exterminate it" but the universe is infinite, and as long as they have a few members playing, they will fester hidden under this or this rock.

 

Poor planning too. If they have all their assets at the same place and its visible from orbit, well... they will attract predators quick. "one mistake and its over"

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This is a very, very complex question, with both intrinsic and extrinsic factors to take into account:

 

It appears to be indeed, but if you think of it, looking at the very big picture for the first human making fire to the last being able to pull a rocket to another planetary body there is one common factor.

 

Amount Energy Required :)

 

Food, resources to satisfy people = energy

Workforce to fee Army build equipment and keep it even idle = energy

and so on.

 

Any advancement in human civilisation was in line with finding a more powerful source of energy. You know why we can feed billions of people on this planet?

Because we have more energy we ever had in the past. Sure, politics and divisions is a social aspect but... if you think hard enough about resources needed to sustain individual nation and why one nation grows another doesn't? resources and energy again :)

 

This is also a very simple and yet powerful way of balancing EVERY game and yet so many times overlooked, overcomplicated.

Set the energy requirement conditions for resources and the rest will self-balance itself.

 

You will not rule a solar system sitting on 1 planet, that's for sure. But to be able to do so you will need lots of energy.

And now I can use the word POWER. You as a leader will need lots of it to keep the ENERGY flowing. :)

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