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The_War_Doctor

Food and Water

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You know, I think food could be quite an interesting mechanic if you think about it.

I assume the game will use realtime instead of fast-forward daycycle, so it would be realistic if you need your 3 meals a day, what would result in one meal per game session for the average player.

 

I think it could work so:

You will need food but only once all 8 hours, depending on your activities this could be more or less. An example: if you mine the whole time, then you need food more frequently approximately all 3 - 4 hours, because its exhausting, but if you're offline (sleeping) this changes to a 12 hour cycle, should you not be online if food needed, it will automatically consume food from your inventory. Should you be longer offline, for a week or even a month, there could be the possibility to reenter the cryostasis.

 

With this system i see two ways for players,

first, the lazy one, you stack simple rations in your inventory wich will automatically consumed as you go.

Second, the more realistic, you cook or buy yourself a real meal and you consume it manually. If you using this method i would give little bonuses like +10hp for the next hour, nothing really drastic, but a small reward for your effort.

As Darius already stated, meals would probably work in a cycle of about one per day when offline and a three to four hour when online. This would be a good balance so that players wouldn't starve but also wouldn't be comfortable. However, I will admit I see a problem.

 

This would work against some aspects of the game if you need to gather up a LOAD of food in order to even build. It needs to be balanced very well. An example is that if I build a large hydroponics basin, I need to ensure that it provides for me and my friends/faction. As I start to build, I need to ensure nutrients and it might get a bit complicated. Of course that is the price to pay for food.

 

I completely agree with Darius' standpoint on the matter as I think it's fair. However, I also think that there should be some way to destroy the need to eat when offline completely..... and that is why I have to discuss food delivery systems and cryostasis. If you were to be going offline for an extended period of time, you would want to ensure that your properly taken care of. Therefor, a food delivery system would be a simple idea, where it delivers the neutrients to your body in order for it to survive. The only downsides would be that it takes a food intake and using it would slowly degrade something such as your skills(or some other system). The other option is cryostasis, which would be harder to build being more costly, takes a fair amount to run and would just be harder to setup in general. The plus is that you wouldn't get degradation of skills or food.

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You know, I think food could be quite an interesting mechanic if you think about it.

As Darius already stated, meals would probably work in a cycle of about one per day when offline and a three to four hour when online. This would be a good balance so that players wouldn't starve but also wouldn't be comfortable. However, I will admit I see a problem.

 

This would work against some aspects of the game if you need to gather up a LOAD of food in order to even build. It needs to be balanced very well. An example is that if I build a large hydroponics basin, I need to ensure that it provides for me and my friends/faction. As I start to build, I need to ensure nutrients and it might get a bit complicated. Of course that is the price to pay for food.

 

I completely agree with Darius' standpoint on the matter as I think it's fair. However, I also think that there should be some way to destroy the need to eat when offline completely..... and that is why I have to discuss food delivery systems and cryostasis. If you were to be going offline for an extended period of time, you would want to ensure that your properly taken care of. Therefor, a food delivery system would be a simple idea, where it delivers the neutrients to your body in order for it to survive. The only downsides would be that it takes a food intake and using it would slowly degrade something such as your skills(or some other system). The other option is cryostasis, which would be harder to build being more costly, takes a fair amount to run and would just be harder to setup in general. The plus is that you wouldn't get degradation of skills or food.

 

Ah I wasn't thinking of having to have food be relevant when your offline. If in order to maintain the strength and skills, that you would require food when off line you are forcing people to log off in a bed or cryo chamber for the evening or longer.  This could be quite cumber sum to the individuals who would get dc'd and are unable to reconnect. I see both sides of the coin on your statement as i don't always have much time to play. I wouldn't want to spend the little time i have to food management when i just want to hop on go mining, exploring etc.. If food and water is a necessity then there would  need to be assistants to manage and tend to the food sources while your away maybe not just during log offs but also when exploration etc...

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You know, I think food could be quite an interesting mechanic if you think about it.

As Darius already stated, meals would probably work in a cycle of about one per day when offline and a three to four hour when online. This would be a good balance so that players wouldn't starve but also wouldn't be comfortable. However, I will admit I see a problem.

 

This would work against some aspects of the game if you need to gather up a LOAD of food in order to even build. It needs to be balanced very well. An example is that if I build a large hydroponics basin, I need to ensure that it provides for me and my friends/faction. As I start to build, I need to ensure nutrients and it might get a bit complicated. Of course that is the price to pay for food.

 

I completely agree with Darius' standpoint on the matter as I think it's fair. However, I also think that there should be some way to destroy the need to eat when offline completely..... and that is why I have to discuss food delivery systems and cryostasis. If you were to be going offline for an extended period of time, you would want to ensure that your properly taken care of. Therefor, a food delivery system would be a simple idea, where it delivers the neutrients to your body in order for it to survive. The only downsides would be that it takes a food intake and using it would slowly degrade something such as your skills(or some other system). The other option is cryostasis, which would be harder to build being more costly, takes a fair amount to run and would just be harder to setup in general. The plus is that you wouldn't get degradation of skills or food.

first I had no idea this thread would take off like this. went to sleep and woke up to 2 full pages lol

 

second I agree that the offline part needs to be addressed. it be a cop out to say you don't need to eat while offline. but id like to think that your cockpit has a built in semi cyro sleep system that puts your body in a sleep state that you burn less energy therefore needing less food. it would also be interesting if not somewhat disgusting to build a component for your suit/ship that recycles liquid waste back into useable water. I think the best way to tackle the food part is to have an automatic delivery system like what was mentioned before. (astronaut food) and then have a minor bonus for cooking food yourself. boost to health or a skill perhaps that last x time depending on cooking skill if that is something that is in game. for all we know this might not be in game

 

 

 

edit: I couldn't help but think of the new star wars after posting this and the quarter portions lol

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first I had no idea this thread would take off like this. went to sleep and woke up to 2 full pages lol

 

second I agree that the offline part needs to be addressed. it be a cop out to say you don't need to eat while offline. but id like to think that your cockpit has a built in semi cyro sleep system that puts your body in a sleep state that you burn less energy therefore needing less food. it would also be interesting if not somewhat disgusting to build a component for your suit/ship that recycles liquid waste back into useable water. I think the best way to tackle the food part is to have an automatic delivery system like what was mentioned before. (astronaut food) and then have a minor bonus for cooking food yourself. boost to health or a skill perhaps that last x time depending on cooking skill if that is something that is in game. for all we know this might not be in game

That is a good idea and isn't over complicated as I tend to make my posts sometimes. It would make sense to have a system like that in a cockpit. It would also make sense to have a number of systems for when you are not looking to be in a cockpit. Just something I felt I should bring out.

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That is a good idea and isn't over complicated as I tend to make my posts sometimes. It would make sense to have a system like that in a cockpit. It would also make sense to have a number of systems for when you are not looking to be in a cockpit. Just something I felt I should bring out.

im no scientist but it may not be a stretch to build something for the suit itself. when you sleep you naturally burn less energy. iv gone days in real life of eating only one meal an entire day while sleeping for 12+ hrs. id say that if you are not online for long periods of time have  a temporary debuff to skills that goes away after you eat. not instantly but you eat a real meal and over 15 to 30 mins your skills go back to what they should be. maybe for every 24hrs you are offline a random skill is debuffed by like 2 points (if using a point system, im thinking runescape skills sorry lol) and every 2 points of a skill takes 1 mins after eating to regain with a min of 15 and a max of 30 mins.

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With the advanced tech we will have, from the lore, shouldent our nanocannon just suck up the basic "food" components and store it in our pavk. To the later create a supplement?

Why grow food on an agro ship when you can store the building blocks to it, and then have Star Trek style food and drink dispensers on your ships. Think about it...

If your matchbox sized kpack on your belt can store tons of stone, how much could a shipping container sized one hold for food?

 

I think you are all staying in your boxes, and failing to think outside of them and what scientific marvel could make simple things we deal with today go away forever

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In some games I've played ration bars are used, or nutribars, like granola bars here. Fruit bars etc...get the message? Hunting on a planet can help to, even let you stock up if you're there, but manufactured food can be made/sold/eaten/stock piled on a ship and last for a long time. Its not a bother...its necessary. People who cant stand the thought are usually those that play a lot of hack and slash, one potion for each need, but even then they have to have something.

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I think the developers need to walk a fine line of ultra realism and practical. if its not practical to have a food system then they shouldn't have it. but I think it would be a wonderful immersion device but again if its found to be impractical or off putting to to many people then they shouldn't have it. Its similar to the issue of is there going to be gravity in the ships. one could say much like gallo is saying that we are in the future and a lot of issues today are gone at this point. both sides are valid. Im honestly neutral on it.

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I suddenly see myself from above. My legs are bones covered with a rag of flesh. Knees jutting out. Hips and ribs sticking out, navel twisted up like a t-shirt left in the snow for too long, that creaks if you shake it, Adam’s apple. My face I can’t see because of the helmet. Nothing human anymore. I am a sack of stiff flesh, a freeze-dried packet, forgotten in a Russian freezer.

“Do you recognize yourself?”

“Am I really alive? Or is it just my brain that’s alive?”

“With accelerated rehydration, you will recover your ideal weight in one week.

 

from the Dev Blog

 

This to me says we will have advanced ways of taking care of our biological needs, so no need to eat and drink.

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With the advanced tech we will have, from the lore, shouldent our nanocannon just suck up the basic "food" components and store it in our pavk. To the later create a supplement?

Why grow food on an agro ship when you can store the building blocks to it, and then have Star Trek style food and drink dispensers on your ships. Think about it...

If your matchbox sized kpack on your belt can store tons of stone, how much could a shipping container sized one hold for food?

 

I think you are all staying in your boxes, and failing to think outside of them and what scientific marvel could make simple things we deal with today go away forever

 

And i think you don't take in account the complexity of food on a molecular level, one little error in the reproduction of your meal and your are dead, because something has turned toxic. Just take a simple lettuce leaf, alone this consists of dozens of different chemical compounds, now imagine a whole meal, with all the different ingridients and spices, this are hundreds or even thousands of chemical compounds and all of this must be exactly reproduced, to be edible and non-dangerous for the consumer. Of course if you want something easy to reproduce, here you have a grey, tasteless and chewy bar thats just enough to keep you alive and going ;).

Yes i agree that the most basic forms of nutrition (proteins, carbs, fat) should be storeable in kpacks, but that shouldn't eliminiate the need for fresh food and agriculture on ships in general. Yes on short range ships this isn't necessary, but take something like the "ISS Wandering Mountain" they will need a food production on board, because no matter how big and how much the containers can store, they're limited. Besides that, the plants produce not only food, but also oxygen. Why should you build a big ass and complicated construction to fill your atmosphere with oxygen, if you can simply grow plants that do the same and produce food?

 

from the Dev Blog

 

This to me says we will have advanced ways of taking care of our biological needs, so no need to eat and drink.

I imagine it as was it says it is, a freeze-dried body in a "russian" freezer, without any biological activity. So the arkship passengers were basically all dead during the travel to Alioth. If that were not so, they would probably have died 9,000 years ago to old age.

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I'm against it, this is supposed to be a builder/scifi mmorpg, not a survival game. I definitely dont want to be forced to regularly eat food, its only a chore without benefit.

It is quite funny, but the food to survive question comes up in nearly every early stage of a MMORPG. Everytime there are enthusiasts voting for it and (nearly) every time it will be cancelled or ignored because of a simple fact: it generates frustration and offers nothing. It is a sci-fi game which will - as we currently know - play more on planets than in space. You will spend more time struggling to get back to space, defending your properties or attacking other peoples stuff than cruising harmlessly around picking flowers and cook a meal.

 

This is not picknick in space, it is a fully blown all against all anarchy universe. It would be as vylqun said: only a chore without benefit. Which is the reason almost every game skipped it during development.

 

Most games use food to buff you in some way, but it is not necessary to play. Food could make you faster, more effective while harvesting stuff, clever food makes you research harder or something. But don't ever make it a necessity.

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As I said earlier, it is a very complicated matter to discuss :P It could both be a Boon and a curse...

But if they make the food just a buffing thing, I think the buff needs to be quite strong. I mean, if it isn't strong then cooking / growing crops and such will basicly fall to the side as "useless" or "not worth the time".

Could be things like that someone that as skills in (let say) agriculture and biology (don't know the skills yet) can create amazing foods that can make you mine ore like 40% faster or something, which would make that incredible for people wishing to build things.

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But if they make the food just a buffing thing, I think the buff needs to be quite strong. I mean, if it isn't strong then cooking / growing crops and such will basicly fall to the side as "useless" or "not worth the time".

You would be surprised for what little buffs people buy and use food in MMOs B)

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You would be surprised for what little buffs people buy and use food in MMOs B)

I know, I know :P I play plenty of MMOs

 

I just mean that the larger the buffs are, the more likely people are to try and use them, making it more likely to be a market for creating food :D

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I know, I know :P I play plenty of MMOs

 

I just mean that the larger the buffs are, the more likely people are to try and use them, making it more likely to be a market for creating food :D

makes me think of my days in WOW. only reason id eat food during raids and dungeons was for the different stat boosts lol

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And i think you don't take in account the complexity of food on a molecular level, one little error in the reproduction of your meal and your are dead, because something has turned toxic. Just take a simple lettuce leaf, alone this consists of dozens of different chemical compounds, now imagine a whole meal, with all the different ingridients and spices, this are hundreds or even thousands of chemical compounds and all of this must be exactly reproduced, to be edible and non-dangerous for the consumer. Of course if you want something easy to reproduce, here you have a grey, tasteless and chewy bar thats just enough to keep you alive and going ;).

Yes i agree that the most basic forms of nutrition (proteins, carbs, fat) should be storeable in kpacks, but that shouldn't eliminiate the need for fresh food and agriculture on ships in general. Yes on short range ships this isn't necessary, but take something like the "ISS Wandering Mountain" they will need a food production on board, because no matter how big and how much the containers can store, they're limited. Besides that, the plants produce not only food, but also oxygen. Why should you build a big ass and complicated construction to fill your atmosphere with oxygen, if you can simply grow plants that do the same and produce food?

 

I imagine it as was it says it is, a freeze-dried body in a "russian" freezer, without any biological activity. So the arkship passengers were basically all dead during the travel to Alioth. If that were not so, they would probably have died 9,000 years ago to old age.

 

No I understand the complexity of it all, I am saying that with 500 more years of science, you could have different ways of dealing with that that do not involve growing food, and cooking.  the Star Trek way, of food replicators, or the Matrix way of having it all feed through IVs, since the nano tech is attached to our arm, it could feed us directly.

 

As far as the ISS Wandering Mountain goes, for all we know, when traveling at FTL to a destination, we will be in cryosleep again.  Think about it we were already in it for 10,000 years, to find the FIRST habitual planet. They have said it will take a lot of energy and time to get to another unexplored system, that has Cryosleep all over it.

 

Also you missed the point of the reference to the Lore.  He cant move yet, and could barely open his eyes, but the AI tells him. “With accelerated rehydration, you will recover your ideal weight in one week.  Does that sound like he was getting nutrients through IV or eating steaks and potatoes?  Looks more like the Matrix way of feeding to me.

 

I honestly think if they are going to force players to eat and drink, then they should make us deal with waste and hygiene too.  So with that I vote, eating should be an optional function in the game, with possible buffs, but not a requirement.

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No I understand the complexity of it all, I am saying that with 500 more years of science, you could have different ways of dealing with that that do not involve growing food, and cooking.  the Star Trek way, of food replicators, or the Matrix way of having it all feed through IVs, since the nano tech is attached to our arm, it could feed us directly.

 

As far as the ISS Wandering Mountain goes, for all we know, when traveling at FTL to a destination, we will be in cryosleep again.  Think about it we were already in it for 10,000 years, to find the FIRST habitual planet. They have said it will take a lot of energy and time to get to another unexplored system, that has Cryosleep all over it.

 

Also you missed the point of the reference to the Lore.  He cant move yet, and could barely open his eyes, but the AI tells him. “With accelerated rehydration, you will recover your ideal weight in one week.  Does that sound like he was getting nutrients through IV or eating steaks and potatoes?  Looks more like the Matrix way of feeding to me.

 

I honestly think if they are going to force players to eat and drink, then they should make us deal with waste and hygiene too.  So with that I vote, eating should be an optional function in the game, with possible buffs, but not a requirement.

I agree with Gallo, it seems to be something like this :D 

 

But lets hope that won't stop us from being able to cook stuff

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This is a very interesting topic that could, as others have stated, add a level of immersion that many people look for. It would force you to plan ahead on many things such as exploration or staying in a secluded area. In answer to some the timing pieces (when you would have to eat and how often) I believe that it would be an actual 24hr cycle (real time). TheXPgamers, a YouTube channel, recently released a video where he spoke with one of the devs. In that interview the dev spoke about space travel and how you might need to send a probe to a location first. It would travel at normal speed and would be in real time. So it could take a literal month for a probe to reach a specific location just so a player could explore said location. Building upon this information, if food and water are implemented in some form I believe it would be just like real life. At least 2 big meals and possibly another depending on activities.

 

Additionally, the concept of how food would grow in the universe would be interesting. Factors such as planetary weather, soil compotion, and method of growing would come into play. By method of growing I mean, would you grow food like many farms do today or would the food be grown in hydroponics that can be protected from elements. Also, building on the idea that the universe would be real time, would one method of growing be faster than another? (Growing seasons, harvest seasons, ect.)

 

Growing crops in Space is a very different story. Now you factor research such as, proper temperature, light, water quantity, soil type, ect. After that research is complete there is the matter of building ample growing structures. Not to mention storage systems. Will food expired or go bad? I understand an MRE like meal will last forever but what if food is being transported long distances to be processed. Will there be a refrigeraton system?

 

Water is another matter I could write 4 more phargraphs on. Not to mention mention I only shot out some ideas for crops. Nothing about animals and meat. But I'll see what people say before I let my mind go rampant on ideas and possibilities.

 

I know a lot of what I have said goes super deep into a system of immersion that a lot of people might not like to see in this game. Personally I love all the immersion I can get, especially if its going to be a game where I can build anything. Hopefully this helps open some peoples minds to other possibilities. I'll be seeing if there are forms yet on some of the ideas I mentioned be ause this one is meant for food and water. If not I'll start some.

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No I understand the complexity of it all, I am saying that with 500 more years of science, you could have different ways of dealing with that that do not involve growing food, and cooking.  the Star Trek way, of food replicators, or the Matrix way of having it all feed through IVs, since the nano tech is attached to our arm, it could feed us directly.

 

As far as the ISS Wandering Mountain goes, for all we know, when traveling at FTL to a destination, we will be in cryosleep again.  Think about it we were already in it for 10,000 years, to find the FIRST habitual planet. They have said it will take a lot of energy and time to get to another unexplored system, that has Cryosleep all over it.

 

Also you missed the point of the reference to the Lore.  He cant move yet, and could barely open his eyes, but the AI tells him. “With accelerated rehydration, you will recover your ideal weight in one week.  Does that sound like he was getting nutrients through IV or eating steaks and potatoes?  Looks more like the Matrix way of feeding to me.

 

I honestly think if they are going to force players to eat and drink, then they should make us deal with waste and hygiene too.  So with that I vote, eating should be an optional function in the game, with possible buffs, but not a requirement.

Yes there is probably some tech like that, but lets take a look at the techs you mentioned:

Star Trek: Energy to Matter conversion, is possible but not for player at gamestart. This would probably more like an endgame tech simply because you will need huge amounts of energy and without a Matter/Antimatter reactor probably not feasible. Maybe on the Arkship is such a system.

Intra venous injetion: totally possible, but not so easy as you might think. You will need a way to digste before the IV and you will need something to process. Its basically the same as growing and cooking, just that your aren't cooking but rather industrially processing the raw food. Also i wouldn't be certain that IV can keep you going, because of the strong dilution of the nutriants to don't block the blood flow and i'm also not certain that the processed/digested nutriant would survive a careless handling and after all this we have also possible long-term consequences for a IV diet, such as a devolving of the digestive system for example. (we all know your body, it isn't needed? okay it can get away! muscles, nerves, skin, fat...wait what? nope fat can't get away, fat is always needed -.- )

 

Sooo ISS Wandering Mountain yes it will be a long journey for them, but would you want as player to be stuck in a cryopod till you have reached something intresting?

And it is also as what the ship is intended, if you have a long range A to B transportship, yes cryosleep, go with it and come back in a year or so, if it has reached the target destination. But as i have understood it, the ISS is intended as a mobile home base that will probably travel the most time at sub-light and as such you can't deep-freeze all the passengers. Yes in FTL you could use cryosleep but that would be pretty boring.

 

I don't missed the point of the reference to the Lore. He cant move yet, and could barely open his eyes, but the AI tells him. “With accelerated rehydration, you will recover your ideal weight in one week."  To me thats sounds like that the body will get water, what is needed after dry-freezing the body, and nothing else. Yes there would probably be some kind of nutriants in this water, but nothing that could sustain a healthy human being.

 

Waste and hygiene, intresting. As regards the waste, fertilizer or stinky space debris :D. And hygiene you would probably once a day hop under the shower and i think that could add some intresting social interactions :P

 

A possibility for the optionality of food could be a choice in the character creation, if you want the immersive way or the standard MMO way of things. I think that would be great for both factions, if its possible.

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Another interesting idea is, would the food spoil and if it does maybe you could freeze dry or vacuum seal it to stop/slow spoilage. They already mentioned there being animal NPCs so maybe you could feed and breed them, and breeding could take 1 to 2 hours. 

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Well the way I would see it done, is the nano tech attached to my arm has its own power supply, we shall call biomatter. This biomatter has enough power to break any matter down to its molecular state and store it, and reassemble it as needed. It does all the work to our energy needs through IV feeding and waste removal. It can even filter toxins put of the blood. Our bodies are filled with the nanobots that work to keep us in pristine shape.

Eating is done for a pure social or taste reasons, as there is no reason to eat anymore.

Any obaticle to this, has been overcome with 500 years of tech, energy and nano research.

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Well the way I would see it done, is the nano tech attached to my arm has its own power supply, we shall call biomatter. This biomatter has enough power to break any matter down to its molecular state and store it, and reassemble it as needed. It does all the work to our energy needs through IV feeding and waste removal. It can even filter toxins put of the blood. Our bodies are filled with the nanobots that work to keep us in pristine shape.

Eating is done for a pure social or taste reasons, as there is no reason to eat anymore.

Any obaticle to this, has been overcome with 500 years of tech, energy and nano research.

well...I mean technically humans can already do this. not in such an easy way. but humans are capable of using iv's and directly introducing food into the intestines through a tube in the side lol

 

edit: changed stomach to intestine. remembered this happens when the stomach is removed

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