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The_War_Doctor

Food and Water

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This might be slightly unrealistic, but using your [insert future biotech-babble], if they remove the cap on how much you can fill your food bar, then instead of obtaining food filling your inventory with food and then eating it each time you are hungry, you could just eat it when you obtain it and have the stomach serve as the food inventory. This way you get the immersion of having to actually eat without the annoyance of making it any more of a chore then putting it in your inventory in the first place.

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This might be slightly unrealistic, but using your [insert future biotech-babble], if they remove the cap on how much you can fill your food bar, then instead of obtaining food filling your inventory with food and then eating it each time you are hungry, you could just eat it when you obtain it and have the stomach serve as the food inventory. This way you get the immersion of having to actually eat without the annoyance of making it any more of a chore then putting it in your inventory in the first place.

slightly unrealistic. slightly confused lol. I can see what gallo saying being a thing. but I don't know how that would work either. if the nano bot arm thing is also ived into our arm it can deliver nutrients. I think? idk I didn't take anatomy lol

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Are we thinking too deep into this? :o

Honestly we probably are but its always good to pass around ideas.

 

The nanotechnology idea is a good one. And that definitely could be an interesting concept for late game. As of the matter of not completely turning the game into survival I feel like an mmo like this would be good to add this feature. It would (1) become another way for clans/factions/city's to produce income and (2) make another addition to the game instead of just mining and building and killing. Just like the world is today.

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Honestly we probably are but its always good to pass around ideas.

 

The nanotechnology idea is a good one. And that definitely could be an interesting concept for late game. As of the matter of not completely turning the game into survival I feel like an mmo like this would be good to add this feature. It would (1) become another way for clans/factions/city's to produce income and (2) make another addition to the game instead of just mining and building and killing. Just like the world is today.

I would like the devs to do what they plan to do and have like large scale ingame votes for different types of updates such as this. that way when the game is live and there are millions of players they can all have a voice instead of just us relative few. but it has to be an overwhelming majority i feel like voting for an update. like 80% of the playing populace. and if its something like this have a way to turn off the feature but not gain some fringe benefits from it. kind of like how some games have a hardcore/ironman mode but can be switched to normal but cant be switched back. So if an update like where we need to eat occurs it affects all but each individual can choose to turn it off but wont be able to turn it back on.

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I would like the devs to do what they plan to do and have like large scale ingame votes for different types of updates such as this. that way when the game is live and there are millions of players they can all have a voice instead of just us relative few. but it has to be an overwhelming majority i feel like voting for an update. like 80% of the playing populace. and if its something like this have a way to turn off the feature but not gain some fringe benefits from it. kind of like how some games have a hardcore/ironman mode but can be switched to normal but cant be switched back. So if an update like where we need to eat occurs it affects all but each individual can choose to turn it off but wont be able to turn it back on.

That is true. And I agree with the your statements

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I think that there is a game currently on the market that does it pretty well. Empyrion is set up that food is a large part of your needs, and makes it a core mechanic in the game, but it isnt over bearing in my opinion. You make a couple of planters on your ship with a grow light above them and plant some crops and your all set. If you want to dive into it more you can combine different crops with other resources and make things like canned soups and other things that will give a larger portion of your food bar back. they sort of made it so you can make it as easy or as complicated as you want.

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There is food being grown on the international space station already. Fresh micro greens.
There are lots of options. If it's an ark ship does it have plants and animals?

It's a bit silly if it's all algae paste, edible plastic and recycled  ... from the loo.

Note my avatar image is farm domes on an asteroid.
I would recommend several things: a food system with energy, protein, and nutrients. A few special plants> spice, flavor, plastics, fertilizer.

Several growing system including an outdoors where the atmosphere allows but it's big and low productivity. Hydroponics > more efficient and compact but needs technology and power and can be ship and building based.

 

The game has earth like forests I noticed so that raises the possibility that either a lot of plants were planted out before someone began pulling people out of cryogenesis. Or that one task is to terraform the atmosphere and johnny appleseed out a biosphere. Plant out the plants and trees, catch, ship and release wild life. 
You don't want to muck about with a million procedural alien animals in a building game. Leave that to No Man's Sky. However a few hundred common animals are out there in the world of gaming. Allowing variation in color and size gives you 10 times as many. 

This would need atmospheric processors or dome builder units. Genetic samples. A seeder unit (stores all the plant and animal metadata so it's not a million player made changes). Actual plant placement is mostly procedural. I.e. the planet seed controls placement, roaming speed, despawn radius, animals.  

It would not be a core game system but adds the food, hunting, etc in to the game. 

 

Who's wrangling biosphere's? 

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I'm personally for a survival mechanic that's not useless and not a chore either.

 

If people want fuel for ships they should be able to live with food for bodies, too. You can design a consumption rate that is minor so you only have to eat once a day (not ingame) or in other words once every 24 hours your char is online so to speak, meaning that it could extend as far as 3 days if you play 8 hours per day. If you play less, it extends further. Perhaps that would almost be too useless again but I'm just saying you don't have to eat every real hour.

 

Some consider it a chore, I consider it a logistical aspect you have to consider as you move about just like fuel (if there will be a fuel mechanic). In addition it can allow a new economy - anything evolving around food and delivery. Your far away outposts better be stocked not just with ammo or the like but with a bit of food, too. In turn you have gameplay that evolves around growing food in some classic (fields) or sci-fi (labs, tubes) way of course. That can be fun for some, and if you don't have to eat that often but still once in a while, I think that would be middle grounds for all.

 

I'm not sure what the current dev stance is on this, I think someone threw a quote around where they were against this. I personally think it should be considered now or later anyway to see how it will fit into a potentially complex and immersive gameplay experience.

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As realistic as I want the game... Food and water for survival of my character... not to mention age... isn't something I want. 

 

Eating... expending currency or time effort only to enable continued play of the game... isn't in itself game play to me.  It's a chore.

 

 

But that isn't to say that it can't be done well... Just that I've never seen it done well.  Again in my opinion.  If the consuming of food in game could somehow be made fun and a social experience such that player run restaurants had a real and valuable reason to exist and for people to gather for some period of time there... then maybe.

 

But I can't think of any way to do that.  The few ideas that spring to my mind... such as buffs... and mini games... don't seem up to the task.  

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I can ironically only really see player restaurants etc work if, next to good customizable interior design and gadgets like local music (jukebox etc) food is required.If I didn't have to eat I wouldn't go there and unless you were a roleplayer that simulates food consumption on paper, building one would be rather useless or a simple filler for some location.

 

In turn the most immersive experience I can imagine is actually using an ingame restaurant to eat and to perhaps discuss business deals at the same time; like in reality.

 

But time will tell. I'm generally for survival mechanics including hazards a such as extreme cold, heat, toxic areas, radiation, etc.

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Oh man just think of the credits id have to spend on youth regeneration shots.

 

Big Pharma the next big industry of du.

 

Is food meter really necessary? Just by the nature of a food water oxygen meter existing is three things we have to think about.

Realistic or not it's true well be very busy mining building politicking and fighting.

It'd be such a drag if someone in the fleet said hold on guys my character has to take a break to eat.

 

As much joy as you all would take in putting my gene jack animal trait humans into forced service to bring food to the crew we won't stand for it.

 

Chef or cooking is popular enough for just buffs or stamina and health regeneration. Do we really need a starvation meter?

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Imagine player resturants with in game voice chat, like in arma. That would be awesome.

I AGREE WITH THIS :D

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Yes, but compared to a gunshop with working guns, a gunshop with fake guns is not so good either :P

 

A restaurant without food would be less authentic is what I mean.

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Oh, don't 

 

Yes, but compared to a gunshop with working guns, a gunshop with fake guns is not so good either :P

 

A restaurant without food would be less authentic is what I mean.

 

oh, don't say that, i played anarchy online for several years, and we had quite some parties there (official and inofficial ones), without a real need to eat food :P

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I'm taking our discussion from the Ammunition topic to here.

now really? you were given several arguments exactly why food and water doesn't add anything valuable to the game and would rather decrease the playerbase, and you claim no one gave constructive critizism? Are you trying to troll the community? There was a logical answer to every argument that was given for a food mechanic, are you really going to ignore that and say that there weren't any? How should we take your posts serious if u behave like that?

 No, you gave me several arguments why food and water doesn't add anything valuable to the game in your opinion without even a try to get a other perspective.

No i never claimed that no one was giving constructive critizism, i have claimed that you (vylqun) are not giving constructive critizism, yes you are giving critizism, but certainly not constructive, because that would come with ideas how to make it instead or how to make it better and not simply claim that it isn't feasible.

 

Yes i give you, that your answers were logical from your point of view, but from my point of view it seems that you've don't even considered that your described scenario could be possible and yes i hope for a player base in the millions and armies of thousands of players.

 

In my eyes you are acting like the all-knowing and all-mighty god of the DU community, which you are certainly not and this is my current problem with you.

And to me it feels like as you want to crush my dreams just because you don't like them or think they are futile.

 

This was way more personal as i thought, but it must be said.

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 yes you are giving critizism, but certainly not constructive, because that would come with ideas how to make it instead or how to make it better and not simply claim that it isn't feasible.

 

If something has way more negative aspects than positive ones it is not efficient to look for the few positive traits. Criticism doesn't always need to give a better possibility to realize something, when its way better to just let it be. (If someone wants to cut his veins you wouldn't tell him how to do it with less pain, you would stop him)

 

 

but from my point of view it seems that you've don't even considered that your described scenario could be possible and yes i hope for a player base in the millions and armies of thousands of players.

 

Because it isn't. And even, if by some miracle, it happens, then those players wont spend several weeks on the battlefield, and even if a single campaign might take a week its still completely possible for the players to take the food needed by themselves. I mean, look at your 1-week food shopping in real life, its a big basket, not more. And that includes 3 meals per day! There is no need for the leadership to organize food support. Optimism is one thing, but designing a game around the chance that a miracle might happen is just unreasonable and wrong.

 

In my eyes you are acting like the all-knowing and all-mighty god of the DU community, which you are certainly not and this is my current problem with you.

And to me it feels like as you want to crush my dreams just because you don't like them or think they are futile.

 

 

I don't act like some all-knowing being, i just give logical arguments for my point of few. If you feel that this crushes your dreams then thats sad for you, but i don't belong to the people who keep their opinion for themselves just because they don't want to hurt others, especially if the topic is quite important. You seem to be quite emotional about it, which is probably why you won't accept the lack of real value of a food system .

 

I will once more repeat my reasoning from the other thread, so its completely in this one, feel free to refute them, up to now you just ignored them saying that those wouldn't be proper criticism (which is certainly wrong).

 

Negative Aspects of a food/water mechanic:

 

Positive Aspects:

 - a food/water mechanic serves as a very limited market (limited because the most basic food would satisfy the demand), still, a little bit of trading would be possible

- it gives additional demands for the design of exploration ships and for exploring unchartered regions of planets

- it allows people to become chefs and create their own dishes/buff food

 

Negative Aspects:

- a chore for everyone who wants to build/farm/research/pvp because they regulary have to buy and ingest food without any value for them

- chores like regular intake of food deter a lot of players who just want to build or pvp

 

In my opinion those 2 negative Aspects far outweight the 3 positive aspects, because the market will be enormous, food would only be a really small, neglectable part of it and explorers also only are a minority in the playerbase, and most of them probably dont want to take tons of food with them either.

Concerning the profession as Chef, thats something thats nice for the single player but has no impact at all on the whole playerbase, it maybe would be nice, but definitely not worth the "eat or die" mechanic, its completely enough if food would be for buff purposes only.

 

Now the arguments which you gave why a food system would be good for the game:

 

It needs to be included in the planning of large scale pvp - i already said something about that, its just wrong. The duration of campaigns in an online game is not compareable to real live, it wont take several months, thus every player is completely able to take his own food with him without having to use up to much space in his inventories or storage. Any dreams of pvp battles with several thousand players which take long anough that those players aren't able to carry their own food are just that, dreams.

 

It would make green planets more valuable for farming - would be true in a mediveal game, but not in science fiction. We could build hydroponic farms literally everywhere, and if not that even the nanoformer could create basic organic material, which might not taste good but serves its purpose.

 

Feel free to answer on my reasoning, but content-less sentences like "you're arrogant", "you give no alternatives" etc. are nothing that would do anything to support your case, so i'd suggest to keep them to urself, they're just meaningless.

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In fantasy games where food just provides a buff I never use them.

 

In minecraft I play in peaceful mode where food has no use.

 

I'm open to a food mechanic if it can be made fun in some way... I just can't imagine how that would be done.

 

 

I view it as a gate across the actual fun game play... an annoyance... a currency or time sink... a chore.  If there was a way to make it not be those things... then I'd be for it. 

 

 

 

How does damage and healing work in the game?  If food are healing items... and practically the only ones... then people would be eating all the time to heal up.  You wouldn't need a starvation mechanic... just normal play should have you getting slightly damaged... a bump here or there... which doesn't heal until you eat.  But that doesn't really make thematic sense... as there should be medical tech for such things... injections... nano bots... that sort of thing.

 

Maybe if you just make food really cheap and a weak healing effect... then you could have the more expensive and powerful med tech as well... and food would just be used more often for average every day damage?

 

 

I don't know... I'm trying here.

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In fantasy games where food just provides a buff I never use them.

 

In minecraft I play in peaceful mode where food has no use.

 

I'm open to a food mechanic if it can be made fun in some way... I just can't imagine how that would be done.

 

 

I view it as a gate across the actual fun game play... an annoyance... a currency or time sink... a chore.  If there was a way to make it not be those things... then I'd be for it. 

 

 

 

How does damage and healing work in the game?  If food are healing items... and practically the only ones... then people would be eating all the time to heal up.  You wouldn't need a starvation mechanic... just normal play should have you getting slightly damaged... a bump here or there... which doesn't heal until you eat.  But that doesn't really make thematic sense... as there should be medical tech for such things... injections... nano bots... that sort of thing.

 

Maybe if you just make food really cheap and a weak healing effect... then you could have the more expensive and powerful med tech as well... and food would just be used more often for average every day damage?

 

 

I don't know... I'm trying here.

 

And what if the food is only accounted as power source for the use of your nanoformers? The nanoformer is part of your body and it use your biological energy to work... Every time you use it you feel a little bit more hungrier... And every couple of hours of intensive use you have to eat something...

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And what if the food is only accounted as power source for the use of your nanoformers? The nanoformer is part of your body and it use your biological energy to work... Every time you use it you feel a little bit more hungrier... And every couple of hours of intensive use you have to eat something...

 

So people who mine and build basically have to eat all the time while people who only engage in pvp or explore are completely spared from this? Such inequality isn't good for the community.

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So people who mine and build basically have to eat all the time while people who only engage in pvp or explore are completely spared from this? Such inequality isn't good for the community.

 

The nanoformer is the main interface with the world so, maybe, almost every active action will have a cost in energy; biological (if you are using directly the nanoformer to build/fight) or from another source if you are using some machine to build/dig/fight...

 

 

Also i think that the challange to automate the growing/harvesting of food on a wide scale could represent an unique stimulus, in a direction different from the ship-building logic... Something unique only to this game (i think)...

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If something has way more negative aspects than positive ones it is not efficient to look for the few positive traits. Criticism doesn't always need to give a better possibility to realize something, when its way better to just let it be. (If someone wants to cut his veins you wouldn't tell him how to do it with less pain, you would stop him)

In my eyes you have claimed to give constructive criticism, but you have certainly given pure criticism, so i have corrected you.

 

 

and regarding the warfare, as far as we know it could be possible that alone the transportation of the troop could take long periods of time, depending on your propulsion and the distance between planets and the battle is normally first ended after someone has won, be it diplomatically or with the military and if you want to conquer a well defended planet it could probably take weeks or even months, we simply don't know.

 

Green planets, yes it is science fiction, but that doesn't render my argument useless, it could be that growing plants on a planet is way more easy and profitable as growing them in hydroponics, where you would have to provide everything the plants need.

 

So every further discussion about this topic with you vylqun will be considered as useless by me and thank you that you have confirmed my opinion about you.

Have a nice day :)

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