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DEVBLOG: PANACEA LUA CHANGES - discussion thread


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5 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

This is a recurring trend.

Since is MUCH quicker and easier to remove then it is to create, it seem this is preferred solution to most NQ actions these days.

So my advice to NQ would be this. Each time you remove something players actively use in-game, make sure you have an adequate replacement solution ready beforehand.

 

It's disappointing, but kind of expected.

 

We've seen this recurring theme many times now: their initial ideas weren't completely thought out, so they have to rework and refactor months (or years) later. Between schematics, Demeter, and this...it's like most of their dev time is invested in fixing the mistakes of the past instead of developing for the future. That's not normal, not for a game that hasn't even escaped alpha yet! 

 

If they can remove mining as a concept from the game...they won't be shy in removing LUA functions, either. 

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4 hours ago, Hachiro said:

And there are many more complex systems like this from other orgs and players, that rely on sync with external databases, because the DBs in the game are too small to handle this.

 

I don't think the issue is that DBs are too small; after all, you can link multiple up via RAID scripts, and even link up multiple PBs in a similar fashion with a shared control DB, to store data using as many DBs as you'd like.  Or store data into engine tags, which have a much larger size limit

 

But most tend to export data instead because it's much easier, which removes all the creative potential of using the in-game components that are capable of similar things

 

 

 

18 minutes ago, Helediron said:

- Linking screens is not easy for non-developers. You are hurting our ability to support others. You should also understand that usually accessing logs happen post-mortem - after something strange happened. Setting up screens is then too late. Links are also very scarce resource.

- You can lock logfiles exclusively with deny-read. This prevents other processes reading logs in real-time but they will be available after game is closed. This is one-liner fix and safe.

- Implementing copy to clipboard from Lua chat is easy and safe. But if this is only option, the stored log must be longer than now.

There are many ways to handle logging legitimately.  You could always just expect players to be able to figure out a fundamental part of the game, and have them keep a screen linked.  Or log more succinctly at possible failure points instead of all the time everywhere, and have users screenshot their lua chat.  Or log to lua chat only after a failure (xpcall it).  Or log minimally into a databank, which the user probably already has connected as part of the script, and setup a button for it to output to a screen if they connect one later.  Or if out of slots, provide a companion debug PB, which reads from the shared databank one line at a time and draws logs on a screen.  Or use a companion PB which links to whatever couldn't fit, and relay data/commands into/out of a shared databank, so that the main unit has a free slot to use for a screen.

 

But it sounds like the underlying problem is that you are simply logging too much data, so much that it can't be handled by anything other than direct file I/O - which is one of the things this change is meant to help avoid, when excessively large log files can impact performance and fill up a user's drive without their knowledge.  If you log less, lua chat as it is should be sufficient

 

 

 

Exclusive lock is sort of valid, except it doesn't solve the problem of scripts (hopefully accidentally) filling up the drives of users via logfiles, which is a massive security flaw - spamming and filling the hard drive so would crash DU at least, and probably allow for other attacks depending on how the overflow is handled.  You really can't just let random internet users write whatever they want to your hard drive

 

Copy to clipboard from lua chat would be nice as a whole, but not having it is a very minor inconvenience, considering all the immersive, in-world alternatives

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Hi all!
 

After reading your feedback, we have noted that the removal of log functions was having a big impact on you. So after some internal discussions to find a solution based on your suggestions that would meet your expectations but would not be too heavy to implement, we have made a decision.
 

We plan to add with Panacea, the ability to copy to your clipboard the content of a chat channel, and clean it up.


It is certain that this will not provide a nice solution for the problems related to the lack of data export to virtual currency systems. We have some ideas for this but it won't be for a while unfortunately.


Hopefully this announcement will allay your concerns  


NQ-Ligo

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1 hour ago, NQ-Ligo said:

We plan to add with Panacea, the ability to copy to your clipboard the content of a chat channel, and clean it up.

 

Along with this, would it be possible to add a print to a chat channel (like the Lua channel) that also functions for PB’s activated in surrogate mode?

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On a separate note, I was wondering if it's possible to get if the character's light is on, I wonder if that is a "camera" property, if you get what I mean. Something like system.getHeadlightState() would be good. I bring it up for if someone wants to add shading based off an in game light source, you can model potentially the player's headlight light source, in addition to the sun's. And perhaps even knowing the sun's light direction vector could be interesting as well.

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1 hour ago, Kurock said:

 

Along with this, would it be possible to add a print to a chat channel (like the Lua channel) that also functions for PB’s activated in surrogate mode?

Printing in other channels could be problematic as it could allow players to spam players ...etc. And even more so if it can be executed with non-explicit execution.

 

1 hour ago, EasternGamer said:

On a separate note, I was wondering if it's possible to get if the character's light is on, I wonder if that is a "camera" property, if you get what I mean. Something like system.getHeadlightState() would be good. I bring it up for if someone wants to add shading based off an in game light source, you can model potentially the player's headlight light source, in addition to the sun's. And perhaps even knowing the sun's light direction vector could be interesting as well.

It can be an idea to consider ? This is the kind of small things we could potentially add. To consider.

Anyway this thread is not reserved for suggestions ;) Anyway, I'm always open to read some suggestions on a thread in the suggestion/idea box part of the forum. Thanks

 

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Any chance on getting an API to control the camera? When doing some flying using scripts I would love to be able to stick the camera scripted on an angle and keep it there. 

 

For example a fourth camera type controlled by script would be perfect! 

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20 hours ago, NQ-Ligo said:

Printing in other channels could be problematic as it could allow players to spam players ...etc. And even more so if it can be executed with non-explicit execution.

 

Explicitly printing to the Lua channel for non-explicit execution would make copy-and-pasting from a channel very very useful.  If spamming is a problem then a limit to kill the PB could be added?  Or another way that allows placing a limited amount of text in the activating players clipboard... the only option now is to write it to a screen and edit the screen to get it out (since log files will not be available anymore).  The screen method is tedious at best. 

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On 1/19/2022 at 7:27 PM, NQ-Ligo said:

Hi all!
 

After reading your feedback, we have noted that the removal of log functions was having a big impact on you. So after some internal discussions to find a solution based on your suggestions that would meet your expectations but would not be too heavy to implement, we have made a decision.
 

We plan to add with Panacea, the ability to copy to your clipboard the content of a chat channel, and clean it up.


It is certain that this will not provide a nice solution for the problems related to the lack of data export to virtual currency systems. We have some ideas for this but it won't be for a while unfortunately.


Hopefully this announcement will allay your concerns  


NQ-Ligo

Thank you. I suggest you add a configuration or registry setting like maxChatChannelSize and default it to a reasonable value. Then i can override it to much larger value.

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An ellipse is just a circle with a different radius for X and Y axis, so why not 

 

addRound(layer,X,Y,X-axis-radius[,Y-axis-radius])

 

one unction for either, omit the last variable for a circle

 

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12 hours ago, blazemonger said:

An ellipse is just a circle with a different radius for X and Y axis, so why not 

 

addRound(layer,X,Y,X-axis-radius[,Y-axis-radius])

 

one unction for either, omit the last variable for a circle

 

Round can create confusion...make a circle a circle it's a function of radius....but an ellipse is a function of its axis...2xrx , 2xry.....so its better just o make a new function...a more accurate formula is: 

 

addEllipse(layer, x, y, x-diameter[a], y-diameter[b])

that way it's just to plot the thing x²/a²+y²/b²=1

 

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SIMPLY WONDERS WHEN IT WILL OCCUR TO THEM.... the current digital crayon map we have is worthless,and more so it boggles the mind how any dev building a space MMO would need us to beg ....for over a year for a feature every modern game contains....hands the crayons back

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/20/2022 at 9:46 PM, Helediron said:

Thank you. I suggest you add a configuration or registry setting like maxChatChannelSize and default it to a reasonable value. Then i can override it to much larger value.

Is there any setting? Because the Lua channel has about 200 lines, which is laughable low. It can capture like a fraction of second now.

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12 hours ago, Helediron said:

Is there any setting? Because the Lua channel has about 200 lines, which is laughable low. It can capture like a fraction of second now.

We haven't had a chance to look into it yet, it doesn't seem necessary at first glance since you can just write on a screen, without even worrying about rendering with setHTML ; so more than 50 000 characters. Which is for us the main alternative for the moment.

 

Anyway, I'll discuss it with the team to see if we'll add a setting in the game settings. Nothing decided yet.

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4 hours ago, NQ-Ligo said:

 

We haven't had a chance to look into it yet, it doesn't seem necessary at first glance since you can just write on a screen, without even worrying about rendering with setHTML ; so more than 50 000 characters. Which is for us the main alternative for the moment.

 

Anyway, I'll discuss it with the team to see if we'll add a setting in the game settings. Nothing decided yet.

Thank you. A small correction, the chat limit looks like to be actually 150 lines. You just might consider first to raise that default a tad higher, like to 1000? You know, Deckard can fill it inna minute.

 

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On 1/23/2022 at 4:55 PM, blazemonger said:

An ellipse is just a circle with a different radius for X and Y axis, so why not 

 

addRound(layer,X,Y,X-axis-radius[,Y-axis-radius])

 

one unction for either, omit the last variable for a circle

 

it’s a “circle” with a major and minor radius and an angle offset for the major diameter. 
 

not all eclipses are horizontal or vertical. 
addElipse(layer,x,y,h,w,angle)

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