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DevBlog: Multiplayer Ship Crew


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(Posted Friday 30th of January 2015 on the DevBlog)

 

multicrew-ship-small.jpg

 

Piloting a spaceship in a videogame is a classic of the Sci-Fi genre. Amazing titles have been written based on that idea. Most of the time you get to control a given ship, among a set of predesigned ships, either in first person view within the cockpit (Wing Commander style), or from a third person view outside of your ship (Eve Online style). You will be able do that in Dual Universe too, but there is more.

First, in Dual you won’t have to use predesigned ships, and in fact there will be no predefined ships. We will have some basic ships available at the beginning but nothing will force you to use those. You will be able to build your own, or buy a model designed by another player or organization, from a nearby market. With the balancing provided by the supply and demand selection mechanism (I’ll talk more about the ingame economy in another blog post), the best ship designs will naturally emerge, incremental improvements will be made on them over time and innovation will disrupt the status-quo from time to time. Just like in a real market economy.

The first ship you will pilot will likely be a single seated one-person ship, mostly for transport or small cargo jobs. The experience of piloting such a ship will be similar to the classical cockpit first person/third person view we mentioned at the beginning (you will be given ways to choose which type of view you want).

Now, the interesting thing is that a ship is not a special entity in the game. It is in fact a construct like any other - it just happens to have reactors and ship-like elements that make it behave like… a ship. But in particular, it can be given any shape and any size, provided that you are able to equip it appropriately in terms of power and control so that it can fly. Being on a planet surface, entering a ship and being “in” a ship is also a completely continuous experience for the player, there is no formal boundary. So you could have a truly gigantic ship, hosting a complex infrastructure inside, with hundreds of rooms and corridors. People would be free to embark the ship, walk inside it, jump out of it. Think of all the possibilities.

The control of this multiplayer crew ship would be distributed to several players according to their specialization. People for navigation, some others for left bank/right bank weapon systems, missiles, others for repair facilities, radar, energy systems, com, or for the faster-than-light engine, etc. You would need real team play to fly an interstellar mothership, creating emergent “professions” ingame as people specialize in certains aspects of ship control.

Now, imagine combats. Besides the specialized weapons allocation to various crew members, the fact that the ship is a real object and not some formal 3D image allows for incredible things: partial structural damage that must be repaired (crew members racing to fix this broken hull - FTL anyone?), but also even more exciting is the possibility to board another ship after having cracked open its hull. In my opinion, from an emergent/strategic point of view this is a very interesting alternative to the classical way of completely destroying any enemy ship during combat: instead, board it and take control! Note that we don’t know yet how much of this will be playable in the alpha or beta stage, but it will definitely be something we will support in the long term.

Once again, at the heart of all these ideas are key game-technology changes (real ships created by players), together with emergent gameplay. What players will do with this is still not really known, but the possibilities are huge and exciting!

JC Baillie,
Project Lead

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Klatu:

(Posted Tuesday 17th of March 2015 on the DevBlog)

 

I stumbled across this game a couple of days ago and have since read everything I could find on it. It sounds awesome!

If the ship is a real object with player avatars inside, and hostile players can board ships through hull breaches, would space be a hostile environmental? If so, how feasible would it be to provide atmospheres and space with some basic physical properties such pressure? I’m imagining players flying out into space when their hull is breached, and suffocating if they’re not wearing a pressure suit. You’ve mentioned space ships, do you have plans for land, air and sea (surface and submarine) vessels be buildable in a similar manner?
 

Novaquark Team:

(Posted Thursday 19th of March 2015 on the DevBlog)

 

Implementing space void as a mortal environment is something we’re thinking of.

But it will remain quite basic at the beginning.
There will be three environment types: Planet Atmosphere, Construct Environment and Space Void.
When your character is in one of the two first environments, he will be safe.
If for some reason he ends up in Space Void, there are two possibilities:
– If he is wearing a space suit, he’ll still be safe.
– If not, this will mean instant death for him.
Physical properties like pressure or atmosphere dilution when a breach is done in a Spaceship Hull won’t be implemented, at least not for now.
We might develop this in the long run if we think it is feasible (remember that we plan to handle large-scale battles. And such mechanics are really resource-greedy in terms of calculation. This could definitely be a feature for a single player game. But we still need to test if that can be done for a MMO at a reasonable cost).
Concerning the different types of vehicles:
We currently plan spaceships and Hovering technologies for Land vehicles, and Reactor technologies for Air vehicles. We are also thinking about sea and submarine vehicles, but this won’t be available at the beginning. It will probably be an addition in the coming crowdfunding campaign  ;)
 


 
Joshua:
(Posted Friday 13th of March 2015 on the DevBlog)
 
Will there be a guild or clan system that we can have. Even be able to have guild/clan battles for, lets say a certain sector control. Like lets say they can control a certain sector and set the price for entering to mine that certain place(But not allow them set it to high).
 
Novaquark Team: 
(Posted Monday 16th of March 2015 on the DevBlog. Updated answer: Monday 23th of March 2015)
 
Yes there will be struggles to fight over territories. This is a big feature planned for the game.
For the guild / clan system… well, it’s the main subject of this DevBlog Post

 



 

Austin:
(Posted Friday 13th of March 2015 on the DevBlog)
 
Since we’ll be building our own ships, will it be possible to build a carrier ship equipped with fighters and/or bombers? Also, and this is probably just the fanboy me talking, would it be possible to build mobile suits like those seen in the anime Gundam?

 

Novaquark Team: 
(Posted Monday 16th of March 2015 on the DevBlog. Updated answer: Monday 23th of March 2015)
 
Yes, it will be possible to build a carrier with fighters and/or bombers piloted by players.
For mobile suits like in Gundam or Aldnoah Zero… Even if the game is not specifically design for building mobile battle suits, from a technical point of view, nothing should prevent it. But it’s a bit early to confirm this right now.
 


 
Estevan:
(Posted Monday 2nd of March 2015 on the DevBlog)
 
Would there be moving parts on ships that can interact with the real world?
for example what if i want to build a pirate ship that had arm-claw-things
on the bottom to attach to other ships for boarding or destruction purposes? would this be possible?
 
Novaquark Team:
(Posted Wednesday 4th of March 2015 on the DevBlog. Updated answer: Monday 23th of March 2015)
 
Yes it should be possible to have moving parts on a ship, with the use of “Anchors” (a special unit type). But keep in mind this is still a very early design, and there is no promise this will be implemented in the game from start. You can see a Concept Art research here on our Facebook page. However, to have these moving parts used in PvP Mechanics is not what is currently intended, but this is definitely an interesting idea worth of the Idea Box! 
 
Estevan:
(Posted Thursday 26th of February 2015 on the DevBlog)
 
You've been talking about teams and alliances being an important part of the game. Would there be social areas that make finding people easier? Like lets say maybe postings at a pub that request a crew for a mission? or perhaps a specific place to meet possible allies? Also should there be people whod want to be a “crew for hire” would there be parts of the game that would incorporate that?
 
Novaquark Team:
(Posted Thursday 26th of February 2015 on the DevBlog. Updated answer: Monday 23th of March 2015)
 
This will go directly in the Idea Box when it will be operational.
Creating social features making life easier for players to interact with each other is on the list. Having “social hubs” where people can put requests looking for people (example: Mercenary for hire, Advertising to join a Player faction/corporation, etc) is something we are thinking about.  More information on this DevBlog post.
 


 
Wicpar:
(Posted Wednesday 25th of February 2015 on the DevBlog)
 
Will we be able to create a faction like the CSI in star wars, entirely made out of automated robots and “battledroids”? will there be a AI controlled repair system, so if an automated ship gets attacked, it can auto repair once finished? Will we be able to craft advanced game components like star trek like replicators, that use E=mc2 energy to create matter, and materials, and that can auto craft raw and manufactured materials(simple ones, like water stone, iron, glass, porcelan, food etc…) but needs to be programmed to do it first, and has a 80% E-M conversion efficiency?
 

Novaquark Team:
(Posted Wednesday 25th of February 2015 on the DevBlog)
 

A faction entirely automated wouldn’t be a playable faction. We must keep in mind that we are building a MMO, to encourage players to gather in groups, around a common goal. Playing as a lone wolf will be possible to some extent. But you won’t have the advantages as a faction with many players in it. Having some droids as helpers for several tasks (repairing, mass producing, etc) is something in discussion. But right now, we can’t promise anything as this is a topic in progress.

 

Wicpar:
(Posted Wednesday 25th of February 2015 on the DevBlog)

 

OK many thanks, I meant robots for more like automated transports between outposts, and for defence while offline. And for keeping factions from getting fully automated you could add a way to “hack” into the droids/system and disable everything and disable all, but it would be difficult if alone (you would be able to do it if you have a equal or superior force,or get to sneak into the central command core). And I hope you will in some time make an Idea box where people can post ideas (it will filter duplicates and link the people to the already existing idea) and up or downvote on them (and report if abusive or duplicate).
I am insanely excited about the game.

 

Novaquark Team:
(Posted Thursday 26th of February 2015 on the DevBlog)
 
This is an interesting concept.
We have already some ideas about how players will protect their base or outpost, but what you’re suggesting could be an interesting advanced possibility once all the essential features of the game will be implemented. We will discuss it in the team. And about crafting advanced components, you won’t have start trek-like replicators but you will be able to create “Alloys”. These advanced components won’t be available right from the start: The Alloys will be discovered with research done by players. And for the Idea Box… Don’t worry: it’s coming right with the forum opening.

 

Wicpar:
(Posted Monday 2nd of March 2015 on the DevBlog)
 
Amazing, thanks,
I would like to add another request for very late improvements:
have the ships be able to melt with a voxel based temerature. if it melts, it would convert itself to a metaball representing liquid metal (or use the system you use for water) that can cool too and be changed back to a voxel, but it would keep the approximate shape of the metaball.
so we could make huge furnaces and melt ships down, with all its crew and then sell it as salvage steel or whatever the material is ^^.
or even build stuff like this: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/World_Devastator

 

Novaquark Team:
(Posted Wednesday 4th of March 2015 on the DevBlog)
 
As already answered to PetdCat, implementing temperature mechanics is very unlikely, for many reasons: resource cost on server side (always remember we must develop for large-scale interactions, so what could be really cool in a single player or a multiplayer game is not always a good thing in a MMO), very low priority even if it’s feasible, game balancing, etc etc. Don’t get us wrong: the idea is really cool. But it just seem to us it’s not really compatible with the project.
 



 

PetdCat:

(Posted Saturday 21st of February 2015 on the DevBlog)

 

The idea of being able to disable/board a ship, or provide a diversion while the special ops team attempts to infiltrate is a great idea. That is a mechanism that we have not really seen before and would provide an whole new level of strategy to the game. If you also think about it, in a voxel game, weapons matter. if you melt through a hull with a laser or particle beam, is the opening “hot” for those attempting to enter through it, possibly damaging their suits if they touch it? If you use something kinetic, like an explosive, can the pieces blow off the ship you are fighting damage your ship if you get too close? If you do so much damage to a ship that it explodes while you are along side attempting to board, can your ship take damage? A great deal of possibilities for things we have never been able to do before.

 

Novaquark Team:

(Posted Wednesday 25th of February 2015 on the DevBlog)

 

You’ve brought very interesting ideas to the topic.

However, we must also take into account what is feasible in terms of large-scale battles. Representing that some voxels can be warm due to a weapon shot and damage approaching player might be possible in a single player or a multiplayer game, but probably too much resource-consuming on server side to be represented in a MMO. Imagine if this was handled for hundreds or even thousands of ships present in a conflict… we need to keep in mind to make the game run smoothly even in these cases  ;)

 



 

Estevan:

(Posted Saturday 7th of February 2015 on the DevBlog)

 

How would the player design the ship? Will there be individual pieces that can be put together in different orders? or is there some form of base model then editing it with color and adding shape changes? Im curious about this aspect.

 

Novaquark Team:

(Posted Monday 9th of February 2015 on the DevBlog)
 
As we really want to give maximum freedom to players creativity, there will be several steps to create a ship:
– Creating the hull: this will be basically voxel manipulation/sculpting. Like in Minecraft, but with Dual Contouring (it will be possible to “polish” the voxels).
– Adding “Elements”: it will consist in plugging interactive 3D props (obtained by using a crafting system) on the hull from different categories: Control Units (to pilot the ship: Computer Screen, Cockpits), Engine Units (Reactors and such), Weapons Units…
– “Painting” the hull: As this is still work in progress, we can’t give many details on this step for the time being but we are definitely looking into painting voxels.
We hope this answers your questions!
 


 
Jared:
(Posted Saturday 31st of January 2015 on the DevBlog)
 
I’m really excited about this game, I’m so glad that you are trying new things and are expanding into new areas of game development. As far as multiplayer crew goes how will communication be possible will the game support its own voice chat system or will players have to rely on third party voice chats such as Skype. Again I’m really stoked for this game and will be following its development with much interest.
 

Novaquark Team:

(Posted Friday 6th of February 2015 on the DevBlog)

 

Thanks for your encouragements!
As gamers ourselves, we are aware that nothing is better than a voice chat system to coordinate teamplay in real time.
We are currently exploring possibilities on this side, to implement a voice chat system directly into the game. Some popular voice chat systems are evolving this way, to offer some “embedded solutions” like Teamspeak. However, we are far from having decided anything on this aspect for the time being. If you have any suggestions in mind, feel free to tell us!

 

Jared:
(Posted Wednesday 11th of February 2015 on the DevBlog)
 
agree that a built in voice chat system would be incredible beneficial as far as teamwork is concerned, still though I am wondering if you have any ideas on how to deal with talking in crowded areas. Many games have a talk key that only allows your voice to be heard when it is held down. I find that method cumbersome especially in games that require a lot of your focus. As an idea, I have always wanted a game with true voice mechanics so that if your talking your voice only carries so far and if your yelling it can be heard farther away. I don’t know how this might be accomplished or if it is even feasible for a game, but I think it would fit in well with a game designed around immersion and a real world feel.

 

Novaquark Team:

(Posted Friday 13th of February 2015 on the DevBlog)

 

This is definitively an interesting idea! You’re 100% right on the fact it would improve immersion.
We will discuss about it in the team to see if this can be developed in some ways.

If this seems achievable, it will most likely be a stretch goal for the crowdfunding campaign!

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This brings to mind a question in regards to multiplayer crew ships. What happens when, let say "left bank weaponry" specialist is not in game? Would such person be replaced with an AI? Or would the ship be with out a critical specialist?

 

This question might've been answered before, just can't find it, hehe. Thanks! :)

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This brings to mind a question in regards to multiplayer crew ships. What happens when, let say "left bank weaponry" specialist is not in game? Would such person be replaced with an AI? Or would the ship be with out a critical specialist?

 

This question might've been answered before, just can't find it, hehe. Thanks! :)

 

Maybe players can become a specialist in different areas, this will increase crew versatility. Players can effectively take a position of a missing specialist.

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Yeah, my guess is you'll need players to be able to fill multiple roles and you'll need a certain amount of redundancy - more players than you need to run the ship, but not so many that there's nothing for people to do if everyone is online. Leaders will need to balance the numbers carefully, I think.

 

I don't think having AI is the way to go though. What would stop someone from running a massive powerful ship all by themselves with AI controlling various systems and stations.

 

Regarding balancing, all things being equal, would 100 1 man ships stand a 50-50 chance of taking down 1 100 man ship? Obviously it will depend on the situation, individual player skill, ship designs, ship strengths and weaknesses, tactics, etc, but do you envision these two extreme play styles and everything in between to be equally viable?

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Hi there! 

 

In Dual Universe you will have two choices regarding the situation when the "usual weapon specialist" is not in game:

 

- Having other crew members who are at least proficient in using the involved weapon. The Skill system won't block your character in one or two specialization. Basically, there will be nothing to prevent your character to be a "Jack of All Trades". Most skills will be easy to learn, but hard to master. It will all depend how much time you want to allocate to train in a specific skill. If you know the EvE Online skill system, then you should have a pretty good idea about what we are planning :)

 

- If you lack manpower at a given time, you will have the option to use (craftable) droids, with limited AI, to replace a crew member. However, don't expect them to be better than a living player ;)

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So.. a player can assume multiple positions, but the more skills you have, the less you are focused on mastering them individually. Whereas a player assuming one position can master it quite easily. I'm happy with this balance!

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How about a space station (just like in Galaxy on Fire)?

I'm thinking of player created stations where you go off mining, have some productions and/or do trading (something like neutral stations where the bearer(s) get(s) some small amount of the money involved in the trade).

The problem there would of course again be what to do when the bearer(s) is/are offline.

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How about a space station (just like in Galaxy Space)? I'm thinking of player created stations where you go off mining, have some productions and/or do trading (something like neutral stations where the bearer(s) get(s) some small amount of the money involved in the trade).

The problem there would of course again be what to do when the bearer(s) is/are offline.

Yes, something more permanent like a space station could be kept persistent even when the player is offline. Someone else (forgot, sorry!) did mention the persistent nature of player ships in another post, but it all depends on what the dev team wants to do with the balance between the reality and performance of the game.

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  • 7 months later...

I just watched an unreal 4 demo...man, I cant wait to see how novaquark uses that engine.

 

Anyway. It will be very interesting to see large player constructs where it takes multiple people to fly it properly. I am curious if larger ships will be able to fly/warp faster/farther than small ships. I never much cared for the idea of small one man vessels being able to traverse entire galaxies. It would make sense to me that a larger ship could store more energy/fuel and equip larger more powerful engines. I am just thinking of reasons why people should want to be part of a large ship to help facilitate community and those builds. 

I will personally try for millenium falcon/serenity sized ships when I can (when I have materials to make them and knowledge of in game building is up to speed) but I would really like to try a ship that is about 50% smaller than the NX-01 from Enterprise. 

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Hmm that's very true, what Kiklix said. Encouraging social interaction through ship crews would likely be very effective. As for ship sizes, well, hello Star Destroyer.

 

Encourage interactions, but not cripple those who do not want to take part. 

 

Balancing solo/group play styles is always a tough subject to tackle for any developer. I take part in both, more so the solo portion. 

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I will personally try for millenium falcon/serenity sized ships when I can (when I have materials to make them and knowledge of in game building is up to speed) but I would really like to try a ship that is about 50% smaller than the NX-01 from Enterprise. 

 

 

Makes me wonder how much room we'll have to build things  :D

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(Posted Friday 30th of January 2015 on the DevBlog)

...

Now, the interesting thing is that a ship is not a special entity in the game. It is in fact a construct like any other - it just happens to have reactors and ship-like elements that make it behave like… a ship. But in particular, it can be given any shape and any size, provided that you are able to equip it appropriately in terms of power and control so that it can fly. Being on a planet surface, entering a ship and being “in?? a ship is also a completely continuous experience for the player, there is no formal boundary. So you could have a truly gigantic ship, hosting a complex infrastructure inside, with hundreds of rooms and corridors. People would be free to embark the ship, walk inside it, jump out of it. Think of all the possibilities.

...

 

 the fact that the ship is a real object and not some formal 3D image allows for incredible things: partial structural damage that must be repaired (crew members racing to fix this broken hull - FTL anyone?), but also even more exciting is the possibility to board another ship after having cracked open its hull.

...

Once again, at the heart of all these ideas are key game-technology changes (real ships created by players), together with emergent gameplay. What players will do with this is still not really known, but the possibilities are huge and exciting!

 

JC Baillie,

Project Lead

 

I can think of two possibilities at the moment.

 

I think the size of ships will be roughly limited by the output power of reactors, and engines. and the mass of ships.

The bigger a ship the heavier and harder it is to make it move / stop / and defend it with weapon banks. Novaquark will probably provide quite a few different engines, probably up to some kind of battleship sized engines. If you band together a few battleship engines you could move a mothership. a few more a super mothership - but eventually its just not cost effective, in terms of the resources required to build it and the players required to operate it. plus since the engines arent designed for the super massive structure you take a efficiency loss the bigger the ship becomes.

 

Alternatively, if the sculpting of ships is totally up to players, and we design the engines themselves, and they provide players with some engine blooms and we literally make the engines, and then they provide some engine scripts roughly along the lines of, output + size = energy requirement and we get to choose how powerful and how big engines are then I theorize we could have motherships with one massive engine on the back, and maybe even a tiny hidden engine on the front and both of them be equally powerful.

 - how to balance that from small small ships to motherships potentially having the same thruster output Im not entirely sure. It would require the engine block to behave a certain way. Like maybe if the thruster output is too high for the ammount of mass of surrounding blocks 'anchoring' it to the ship it explodes or rockets off of the ship because it isnt held down properly.

 

Nataurally the possibilities of what kinds of ships can be made will determine what kinds of fantastic constructs players can make.

I would imagine an ideal number of players for controlling ships will probably be around 3-6 people. If you are a frugal designer I think that number of people should be able to pilot medium frigates up to about battlecruiser / small battleships.

 

Also if I may speculate a bit more, I think they intend for there to be some general ship roles and those roles possibly have their own specializations. The following is both I suppose suggestion and speculation

Commander - Targeting, Crew Buff's

Weapon Master - Lasers, Missiles, Mass Drivers, Exoctic Weapons

Energistics - Reactors, Shields, Power Routing, Engines

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I definitely think there has to be a careful balance between the size, speed, cost, maintenance, and difficulty of operation of spaceships.  Since ships are designed and built by players it is the building blocks that need to be balanced rather than ships themselves, but the end goal should be balance between the large and the small.

 

Personally, it makes sense to me that smaller ships will be more easily specialised into a particular role.  Smaller generally means cheaper, so if you want your one man ship to be extremely fast then you can pile on the FTL power at the expense of defense/cargo space/weapons/etc.  Or you can make it quite slow and leave off an FTL altogether and just have a tank with powerful weaponry - this ship will be powerful in defending a fixed region of space, or reliant on bigger ships carrying it to other sectors.

 

If you try the same thing with a large ship you are glutton for punishment, and the larger the ship the worse it gets.  If you try to make a 100 man ship go extremely fast at the expense of defenses it is going to go boom and you will have lost an awful lot of time and money, not to mention respect and probably members.  Make it specialise in combat but without an FTL, and it becomes a fixed fortress, again, probably not the best use of resources.  You can still specialise big ships, but not to the same extent.  Even a large freighter that requires an armed escort cannot truly specialise in speed because it has to have a lot of cargo space, and hence a lot of cargo i.e. mass, to justify its cost and complexity.

 

I also think that there should be an exponential relationship regarding speed and size.  The bigger you get the bigger your engines need to be, sure, but as you go bigger and bigger the amount of energy required of your engines starts to become unfeasible, or requires extremely disproportionate specialisation - the freighter needs to ditch 90% of it's cargo hold and costs 10 times as much to build if you want it to reach 1 man scout speeds.  I guess that sums up to an opinion that the fastest ships should be small ships that are specialised in speed (it doesn't take nearly as much force to propel a small mass to a high as speed).  A ship 1000 times larger can theoretically reach the same speed, but it just isn't practical.  That doesn't rule out reasonably fast 100 man ships, just not as fast as 1 man explorers and scouts, or 10 man smugglers, or etc etc etc...

 

EDIT:  Speed and range are two different things.  I haven't really considered range here.  It probably makes sense for a slow massive ship to have a much greater range than a small speeder before needing to stop for petrol.

 

I think there are lots of reasons people would want to fly in large multiplayer ships, but the first thing that comes to mind is that it would be f*ing awesome :D

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Hi pilots,

 

Shipyards in space... :D

Biggest ships won't be able to extract earth-like gravity (they could in theory, but fuel requirement would increase drastically, which will increase ship mass, which will requires more fuel... definitely not efficient).

So I guess Space docks are mandatory, indeed.

 

Regards,

Shadow

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Hi pilots,

 

Biggest ships won't be able to extract earth-like gravity (they could in theory, but fuel requirement would increase drastically, which will increase ship mass, which will requires more fuel... definitely not efficient).

So I guess Space docks are mandatory, indeed.

 

Regards,

Shadow

 

 

It seems that larger ships will indeed need to have a space dock, and a runabout to get to the surface with a rover in the runabout :D 

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I think the size of ships will be roughly limited by the output power of reactors, and engines. and the mass of ships.

The bigger a ship the heavier and harder it is to make it move / stop / and defend it with weapon banks. Novaquark will probably provide quite a few different engines, probably up to some kind of battleship sized engines. If you band together a few battleship engines you could move a mothership. a few more a super mothership - but eventually its just not cost effective, in terms of the resources required to build it and the players required to operate it. plus since the engines arent designed for the super massive structure you take a efficiency loss the bigger the ship becomes.

 

You nailed the "autobalancing" concept we are after ;)

In fact, it's not so different in real life: the biggest problem engineers currently have to send rockets in space is the balance between total weight of the rocket (fuel included) and the amount of fuel required to make the rocket take off, move in space, and land somewhere (landing back on Earth or landing on another planet). This is basically what limits human space exploration today (that and the time needed to reach another planet).

 

Best regards,

Nyzaltar.

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