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Tashkin

Power Consumption - Starting Areas

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You have got to fix the power usage of this game... it is ridiculous how much is being used at the starting area (area where you do the tutorials)... I crash ever few minutes just trying to get out of the area. Reduce the rendering or something in that area... even if it's just temporary until you can find a solution to resolve the GFX and Power consumption there. I have an i9 9900k 32 GB of ram and a 2080 Super... should not be having these issues. 

Edited by Tashkin
Area where you do the tutorial.

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While unfortunate you crash, frankly, this is not a "common" issue and while yes, your specs would indicate you would be able to run the game fine, it's really incomplete. If you overclock based on the lower demands of "regular" games then DU may well push your hardware over the edge, remove the OC and you will probably be OK..

 

Make sure drivers and OS are fully updated. Also crash how? OS crash (BSOD), Application crash (to desktop) and so on..

 

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5 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

While unfortunate you crash, frankly, this is not a "common" issue and while yes, your specs would indicate you would be able to run the game fine, it's really incomplete. If you overclock based on the lower demands of "regular" games then DU may well push your hardware over the edge, remove the OC and you will probably be OK..

 

Make sure drivers and OS are fully updated. Also crash how? OS crash (BSOD), Application crash (to desktop) and so on..

 

I have to disagree with you on the not a "common" issue... it is extremely common and everyone I play with deals with the same issue. This is only an issue in these "Starting/Safe" zones. The game is not optimized is the issue... a temp fix would be to cut the rendering in those zones. I have been developing games for years myself and I understand the want for bringing in new features... however the issue they have now is that people are force to pay to play this game that is no where near complete. 

 

By crash I mean the game crashed not my PC. It is not a driver or OS issue it's a game issue. The game is consumer power (actual power consumption) and GPU consumption like crazy. A Beta game should not be having these issues anymore. I am not saying that the game should be perfect but these two things need to be resolved if they actually want to keep players. We know hundreds of people that have already quit due to this exact issue and that's just the people we know.

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If it were a common issue, we'd hear more of it, and I know and follow many players who have no issues in this regard at all.

 

A computer program does not "consume power". DU as agame uses AVX instructions which will by nature draw more heavily on CPU resources sure, but as long as the hardware is well specced, has a correct cooling solution and is not pushed beyond its limits by overclocking will not be an issue. Game crashes can certainly be caused by overclocking.

 

Bringing up you develop games and have done so for years means very little in this regard. I also must reserve my right to find your statement "hundreds have left" as presumptuous and fictional at best.

 

And no, you are not forced to "pay to play the game", you are free to wait and/or not buy a sub. putting down $20 for 90 days gameplay is your choice, not your obligation.

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33 minutes ago, LouHodo said:

Have you tried turning down some of the visual settings?  It has done wonders for me and I am on a far less powerful rig.

Yeah I have tried that as well and unfortunately it didn't help. :( Thank you for the recommendation though.

 

35 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

If it were a common issue, we'd hear more of it, and I know and follow many players who have no issues in this regard at all.

 

A computer program does not "consume power". DU as agame uses AVX instructions which will by nature draw more heavily on CPU resources sure, but as long as the hardware is well specced, has a correct cooling solution and is not pushed beyond its limits by overclocking will not be an issue. Game crashes can certainly be caused by overclocking.

 

Bringing up you develop games and have done so for years means very little in this regard. I also must reserve my right to find your statement "hundreds have left" as presumptuous and fictional at best.

 

And no, you are not forced to "pay to play the game", you are free to wait and/or not buy a sub. putting down $20 for 90 days gameplay is your choice, not your obligation.

Computer programs do cause more power consumption. Your CPU and GPU both have a base power consumption when not under stress. That consumption is then increase has the "stress" is increased. Minimum required power supply for base usage on my unit is 520W. Try playing pretty much any game and watch it crash. 

 

You may not see if on these forums here but it is definitely happening. Even on their own discord you are seeing it daily. Search their reddit for "Crash" and you will find hundreds of post. Search on their discord and it has over 8k post regarding crashing. So just because you  personally do not see it doesn't mean it's not happening because it most definitely is. 

 

As far as my development it does mean something as I have made a recommendation to resolve the issue at least temporarily until a better solution is provided. 

 

As for the last part you misinterpret my words... if you wish to play this game at it's current state you are required to pay in order to play. Please do not twist my words to try to make a point.

 

When people are having issues I highly recommend giving advise instead making assumptions. It makes you appear to be very rude and unhelpful. I will end the conversation with you now. Hope you enjoy the game and enjoy the rest of your day.

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10 minutes ago, Tashkin said:

When people are having issues I highly recommend giving advise instead making assumptions.

 

Likewise, as thousands of players do not experience the issues you have I'd say it is safe to say that, while your issues are unfortunate, making general assumptions toward what is causing these is at best presumptuous.

 

I have been around DU for over three years now, have helped a good number of players with similar issues as yours and most were caused by out of date drivers and (extreme) overclocked systems which for a game which by nature will dive hardware more than your average game (and that will not change) can be an issue. In relation to DU, what is your actual experience in dealing with these issues outside of making generalizing remarks and not providing actual details when suggested you provide them?

 

How does your game crash?

At what time does your game crash?

What were you doing when your game crashes?

If your system overclocked?

Have you tried reflashing/resetting BIOS?

Have you logged a ticket for this?

Can you add DXdiag output in attachment?

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1 hour ago, blazemonger said:

 

Likewise, as thousands of players do not experience the issues you have I'd say it is safe to say that, while your issues are unfortunate, making general assumptions toward what is causing these is at best presumptuous.

 

I have been around DU for over three years now, have helped a good number of players with similar issues as yours and most were caused by out of date drivers and (extreme) overclocked systems which for a game which by nature will dive hardware more than your average game (and that will not change) can be an issue. In relation to DU, what is your actual experience in dealing with these issues outside of making generalizing remarks and not providing actual details when suggested you provide them?

 

How does your game crash?

At what time does your game crash?

What were you doing when your game crashes?

If your system overclocked?

Have you tried reflashing/resetting BIOS?

Have you logged a ticket for this?

Can you add DXdiag output in attachment?

I do not overclock and drivers are always up to date. My system is way to expensive to burn out my stuff by overclocking. My system is also liquid cooled and temps stay extremely low.  I check my Nvidia drivers daily as they are preparing for raytracing.  My OS is always updated as well. I literally do this for a living... I am not trying to downplay what you are saying but this is literally my life.

 

The only area that I experience crashes are the start areas. The game starts to have a massive FPS drop (Due to the rendering of literally everything there) then the game crashes.

What time is only at the starting zones.

No it is not overclocked not worth the money spent on the system.

Bios is up to date.

I have sent over 40 tickets for each crash explaining exactly what happened each time. 

Attached 

DxDiag.txt

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2 hours ago, Tashkin said:

I do not overclock and drivers are always up to date. My system is way to expensive to burn out my stuff by overclocking. My system is also liquid cooled and temps stay extremely low.  I check my Nvidia drivers daily as they are preparing for raytracing.  My OS is always updated as well. I literally do this for a living... I am not trying to downplay what you are saying but this is literally my life.

 

The only area that I experience crashes are the start areas. The game starts to have a massive FPS drop (Due to the rendering of literally everything there) then the game crashes.

What time is only at the starting zones.

No it is not overclocked not worth the money spent on the system.

Bios is up to date.

I have sent over 40 tickets for each crash explaining exactly what happened each time. 

Attached 

DxDiag.txtUnavailable

I was actually surprised how well the game ran on my PC.  I saw video's of people with high end machines like yours with the game running poorly.   I have the settings down but from what I can see it runs better than a lot of far more expensive up to date systems (might just be the settings).   Anyway, overclocking is a personal thing but IMO if you have gone to the trouble of water cooling and you have purchased quality components then you might want to consider over clocking for free performance.  This game has a heavy dependence on CPU.  You should be safe with a 30% overclock.

For reference, my system is 5 years old.  i5 overclocked to 4.6ghz, 980ti, 16gb ram, custom water cooled.

Anyway, good luck.  Hopefully future optimizations will improve performance.

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6 hours ago, Tashkin said:

You have got to fix the power usage of this game... it is ridiculous how much is being used at the starting area... I crash ever few minutes just trying to get out of the area. Reduce the rendering or something in that area... even if it's just temporary until you can find a solution to resolve the GFX and Power consumption there. I have an i9 9900k 32 GB of ram and a 2080 Super... should not be having these issues. 

Here is a thing - if you crash with such hi spec computer because of lack of optimization in game - my FX 8350, 1060 and 16gb of ram should not be able to run it at all. It runs the game relatively smoothly (if keeping my CPU and GPU close to 80%) without excessive crashing - actually scratch that - its very rarely that i crash, i crashed in the market maybe once in last 2 weeks. 

Something is going on, but i don't think game optimization is at fault. 
 

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21 minutes ago, Underhook said:

I was actually surprised how well the game ran on my PC.  I saw video's of people with high end machines like yours with the game running poorly.   I have the settings down but from what I can see it runs better than a lot of far more expensive up to date systems (might just be the settings).   Anyway, overclocking is a personal thing but IMO if you have gone to the trouble of water cooling and you have purchased quality components then you might want to consider over clocking for free performance.  This game has a heavy dependence on CPU.  You should be safe with a 30% overclock.

For reference, my system is 5 years old.  i5 overclocked to 4.6ghz, 980ti, 16gb ram, custom water cooled.

Anyway, good luck.  Hopefully future optimizations will improve performance.

My CPU is only at 30% it's my GPU and power consumption that is running high.

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i spent a small fourtune on my rig, I play many different games, especially Ark survival and FTB minecraft , Satisfactory, Civ.  My rig is setup in my living room and only spins up all 8 fans if needed.

DU is the only game i have ever played where all 8 Fans are at 100% all of the time. It sounds like im taking off and heading into orbit even when im just standing still on foot.

their are 2 possible problems.  1) the game is massivly unoptimized. this is a complicated topic on its own with many ways the game can be unoptimised.  or 2 ) the ammount that you can move the quality and distance sliders is far too optimistic. limiting the offender to half its potential would go a long way to help, at least untill the game is more optimised.  i can run many many clients of eve at the same time with less power usage / heat / noise

 

I wouldnt mind so much if the game was actually pretty. as is, this power draw is totally unjustified for such a basic looking game. and before the fanbois storm in, yes i know its beta. Ark was the same in the early days. but NQ need to be aware of this issue and it is an issue.

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1 hour ago, Maxnano said:

I wouldnt mind so much if the game was actually pretty. as is, this power draw is totally unjustified for such a basic looking game. and before the fanbois storm in, yes i know its beta. Ark was the same in the early days. but NQ need to be aware of this issue and it is an issue.

When someone comes on and points out that comparing this game to Ark is like comparing checkers to chess (similar but one is massively more complex), they are not a 'fanboi' they just understand the massive difference between the two.  If you can show me a single voxel based game, which is the same SCALE as DU which outperforms it, that would be appreciated.

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1 hour ago, Maxnano said:

Ark was the same in the early days. but NQ need to be aware of this issue and it is an issue.

 

Ark is not voxel based in the way DU is, is it a game purely based on elements you build with and thus technically vastly more simple. As previously said "I spend a small fortune" means very little in this regard if your focus is fairly basic games computing wise. No one here will deny DU drives your PC harder that most other games and for good reason, while yes, over the course of beta optimization will improve performance , this is what beta is for, but it will always be more demanding. 

 

NQ is aware that the game needs these optimizations and it is something they are working on (as they have said several times). That said, this is not a console level game and your hardware will need to do work.

 

Back to @Tashkin

For reference, I run a 3700X with 2080, 32GB 3200 RAM and NVMe storage running at 1440p. CPU usage is around 65%, GPU at 75-85% with temperatures sitting around 75 Celcius overall (all fan cooled, no water) when running DU. FPS around markets is roughly 28-35 fps and elsewhere mostly capped at 60. In my in-game circle this is the general experience and I know several people running te game on 3rd gen Intel even quite comfortably.

 

Unfortunately I could not see the DXdiag file but from what you said I take it you do keep your gear up to date but from the symptoms you describe I frankly suspect there is some sort of hardware issue in play here, possible GPU or PSU which is  triggered by the game. If I were in your position I would try and find a ways to test this with replacement hardware to see if that can exclude hardware as a possible cause. Specs wise your system should not have any issues running the game at all and if the spike is as bad as you say it is then yes, from what I know now I'd suspect a hardware issue.

 

 

It is easy to say "DU is breaking my hardware" when in reality DU is exposing/triggering a fault which is breaking your hardware

 

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Hmm, I have same cpu and RAM and a 1080Ti and don't have any problem in starting areas other than a lower framerate of 15-20 fps, so I'm not sure what's causing your issues.

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4 hours ago, Moosegun said:

Confused about the 'starting zone' you are talking about that causes crashes, are these just the markets, which are used by all the players?

By the "starting zone" I mean the area where you do all of the tutorials. Which is the ONLY area I have issues once again. No where else do I have problems.

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8 hours ago, Elrood said:

Here is a thing - if you crash with such hi spec computer because of lack of optimization in game - my FX 8350, 1060 and 16gb of ram should not be able to run it at all. It runs the game relatively smoothly (if keeping my CPU and GPU close to 80%) without excessive crashing - actually scratch that - its very rarely that i crash, i crashed in the market maybe once in last 2 weeks. 

This isn't always the case, especially with programming on a GPU. It is uncommon but plausible that they make a mistake writing a shader that affects newer GPUs far more than older ones. 

 

Someone mentioned that DU uses a mesh server to minimize GPU work (handles voxels server-side only) -- which if true means the client-side rendering shouldn't be anything especially complex or cutting edge. 

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5 hours ago, blazemonger said:

 

Ark is not voxel based in the way DU is, is it a game purely based on elements you build with and thus technically vastly more simple. As previously said "I spend a small fortune" means very little in this regard if your focus is fairly basic games computing wise. No one here will deny DU drives your PC harder that most other games and for good reason, while yes, over the course of beta optimization will improve performance , this is what beta is for, but it will always be more demanding. 

 

NQ is aware that the game needs these optimizations and it is something they are working on (as they have said several times). That said, this is not a console level game and your hardware will need to do work.

 

Back to @Tashkin

For reference, I run a 3700X with 2080, 32GB 3200 RAM and NVMe storage running at 1440p. CPU usage is around 65%, GPU at 75-85% with temperatures sitting around 75 Celcius overall (all fan cooled, no water) when running DU. FPS around markets is roughly 28-35 fps and elsewhere mostly capped at 60. In my in-game circle this is the general experience and I know several people running te game on 3rd gen Intel even quite comfortably.

 

Unfortunately I could not see the DXdiag file but from what you said I take it you do keep your gear up to date but from the symptoms you describe I frankly suspect there is some sort of hardware issue in play here, possible GPU or PSU which is  triggered by the game. If I were in your position I would try and find a ways to test this with replacement hardware to see if that can exclude hardware as a possible cause. Specs wise your system should not have any issues running the game at all and if the spike is as bad as you say it is then yes, from what I know now I'd suspect a hardware issue.

 

 

It is easy to say "DU is breaking my hardware" when in reality DU is exposing/triggering a fault which is breaking your hardware

 

Unlikely... have no issues on any other AAA games I play. Also once again this is literally only at stating zone where you do all of the tutorials. I have no other issues in any other areas of the game.

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Well, as you are clearly set on your assumption it's an issue with the game, regardless of the mountain of facts that go against that I guess that ends the conversation. There is no point trying to help someone find a solution when they do not have the ability to think beyond or consider options they did not before. Not saying I'm right or you are wrong, just that you seem set on "it is a problem with DU".

 

So good luck in your efforts to get it sorted.

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For me, I get quite a few crashes with the game. However almost all of them are predictable.

 

If I visit "The Districts" often in a single game session, its a sure bet the 3rd visit is going to simply cause the game to quit to desktop when I 'turn around' in the middle of one (if not the 3rd, then definitely the 4th). Most times it quits without bringing up the 'send in a bug report' dialog. Never crashes my computer outright (never a BSOD for example).

 

When it happens, I always suddenly see my ram usage spike right before. I only have 16GB ram, so when it 'hits the roof', the game quits very ungracefully. The game doesn't just throttle itself down, or handle the ram roof. Outside of districts my ram use is barely 40%, thus the lack of crashes outside.

 

Maxing out the graphic options, or even bottoming them out, makes zero difference in the performance of the game for me. It always is roughly 10-15fps in districts, and 50-80 anywhere else. I am limited by my CPU for this game (only have a i7 6700K, non OC'd).

 

As for the power consumption... yes. What the game is doing with the CPU, is causing it to inhale a lot of power most of the time (more so in districts). In all honesty, my CPU runs "cooler" with an overnight prime95 going, then a few hours of this game running :D  but "oh wells" is what I think right now, because its clear to me they have not done much optimizing at all. And judging by their stance that '30fps mediocrity is acceptable'... I don't foresee much optimizations in the future either. I'd love for them to clean up the code, I just don't expect them too.

 

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1 hour ago, blazemonger said:

Well, as you are clearly set on your assumption it's an issue with the game, regardless of the mountain of facts that go against that I guess that ends the conversation. There is no point trying to help someone find a solution when they do not have the ability to think beyond or consider options they did not before. Not saying I'm right or you are wrong, just that you seem set on "it is a problem with DU".

 

So good luck in your efforts to get it sorted.

I think you may be thinking it's my computer crashing when it is just the game. My computer never crashes I just wanted to point that out. I have seen zero facts throughout this whole conversation. Just opinions. I have stated what I have seen in the years I have been developing which is still an opinion but it's an opinion with experience in the field and most of the time that was the actual issue. Since this issue is literally directed at the districts (areas where you do the tutorial) it would state that there is an issue in that location. I love this game and I am in no way bashing it... however the truth to the matter is that there is most definitely an optimization issue in those areas. You are getting extremely defensive and there is no reason to be... I want this game to succeed.

 

35 minutes ago, Frigidman said:

For me, I get quite a few crashes with the game. However almost all of them are predictable.

 

If I visit "The Districts" often in a single game session, its a sure bet the 3rd visit is going to simply cause the game to quit to desktop when I 'turn around' in the middle of one (if not the 3rd, then definitely the 4th). Most times it quits without bringing up the 'send in a bug report' dialog. Never crashes my computer outright (never a BSOD for example).

 

When it happens, I always suddenly see my ram usage spike right before. I only have 16GB ram, so when it 'hits the roof', the game quits very ungracefully. The game doesn't just throttle itself down, or handle the ram roof. Outside of districts my ram use is barely 40%, thus the lack of crashes outside.

 

Maxing out the graphic options, or even bottoming them out, makes zero difference in the performance of the game for me. It always is roughly 10-15fps in districts, and 50-80 anywhere else. I am limited by my CPU for this game (only have a i7 6700K, non OC'd).

 

As for the power consumption... yes. What the game is doing with the CPU, is causing it to inhale a lot of power most of the time (more so in districts). In all honesty, my CPU runs "cooler" with an overnight prime95 going, then a few hours of this game running :D  but "oh wells" is what I think right now, because its clear to me they have not done much optimizing at all. And judging by their stance that '30fps mediocrity is acceptable'... I don't foresee much optimizations in the future either. I'd love for them to clean up the code, I just don't expect them too.

 

This is exactly what is happening. The only difference is that I am not limited by my my specs. I don't have temp issues they are always being monitored on my second screen. 

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2 minutes ago, Tashkin said:

I don't have temp issues they are always being monitored on my second screen. 

Well by 'cooler', I meant, well, cooler... lol. Beans to beans, this game seems to make the cpu run warmer. However, this game doesn't put my CPU in jeopardy, the temps are still within my tolerance. Now if I did OC, I may find it more concerning given the vcore would be boosted a bit more, which would eat more energy, cause more heat, might go over 70c... which I won't like.

 

My next build is aimed at the 10k series. I just put it all on hold, because of the shortage of the 3090s... and other factors. Prolly do that sometime next year.

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17 hours ago, Tashkin said:

By the "starting zone" I mean the area where you do all of the tutorials. Which is the ONLY area I have issues once again. No where else do I have problems.

You dont do all of your tutorials in one zone, you move between Alioth and Sanc moon, both of these areas are not only used by new players but by normal players, all the time, every day. It is NOT a starting zone (which implies you only use it at the start).  Yes there is a known drop in performance in these areas due to the number of assets and it is something the devs know about and are working on but it is BY NO MEANS unplayable for most players.  Infact, once cached, I have very few problems at most markets, just slight loading time issues.  If you are having something more than this, then YES the issue might be also local to your machine.

For example, I had an issue where i would get massive lag spikes and freezes which would last for ages, it turned out to be a conflict with 3d Wallpaper Engine which was running in the background.

Several people in this forum have extensive software / gaming dev experience, personally I would not dismiss Blazes comments quite so quickly, he normally talks sense when it comes to stuff like this.

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