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5 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

While you are waiting for the refund, you may want to read about "beta development phase" 

Ou seja Joao, me fodi.

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4 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

Only English on this forum section.
And no, I bet you can get a refund if you open a ticket.
But next time you buy a beta or alpha product, expect a not finished game with bugs.

Normally I wouldn't mind this kinda fiasco on a normal afla/beta access on a free game, although I will probably avoid it, but we PAID for a SUBSCRIPTION. If you are happy to pay a company to beta test their product that's cool for you. But the majority of sane people are not happy about that. They should at least made subs active at the moment of the actual launch, because you cannot call this mess a launch (I haven't had a straight more than 20 minutes of playtime without a crash in the last 24h) ... let the people beta test their product in the meanwhile. You guys have absolutely NO idea what a beta game should represent anymore. No wonder they get away with this.

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20 minutes ago, Mbobo2020 said:

Normally I wouldn't mind this kinda fiasco on a normal afla/beta access on a free game, although I will probably avoid it, but we PAID for a SUBSCRIPTION. If you are happy to pay a company to beta test their product that's cool for you. But the majority of sane people are not happy about that. They should at least made subs active at the moment of the actual launch, because you cannot call this mess a launch (I haven't had a straight more than 20 minutes of playtime without a crash in the last 24h) ... let the people beta test their product in the meanwhile. You guys have absolutely NO idea what a beta game should represent anymore. No wonder they get away with this.

If you're not happy about paying to participate in a beta, why would you, y'know, pay to participate in a beta?

At least part of the function of the beta sub is to make sure the place isn't flooded with people who 

a) expect a finished game - it's not an unreasonable expectation that you would read about the current state of the game if you're blowing 20 bucks on it

b) pop in, litter the place with never-to-be-visited-again bases and constructs then leave forever after a few days.

 

People have been paying to test this game for years. The bar just got lower, is all (20 bucks not 60).

 

There is no standard definition of what beta means any more in the game world. Or Alpha. Or "release" for that matter. The old definitions are gone forever, and nowadays you have to do research to find out the true state of a game. I attribute this to the evolution of crowdfunding models where the investors want access to the product *way* earlier than any studio-produced game would be allowed out into the world in any form. Development cycles for games like this have become extended because small development houses can now aspire to produce things that would have needed massive studios to even begin, in the "old days".

Me, I've had one single CTD in the entire week I've been in-game that wasn't network-related. There are bundles of other bugs, sure.

 

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't have called it a beta release; the game's not even feature-complete (no Avatar-to-Avatar run-and-gun is probably the biggest feature that you couldn't call a refinement of something that's present in some limited bare-bones/embryonic form). I'd have moved from the "closed alpha" that the backers supported, to an "open alpha" stage. But I'm old-fashioned and still have memories of the time when Beta meant something.

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I totally agree with you, it's a beta, and the game seems deeply unstable. Plus the subscription system makes this situation rather unacceptable.

 

However I think we can be indulgent: this is an indie studio, and a big release, which can't be perfect during the first day(s). Obviously this situation couldn't last for a long time without a goodwill gesture towards customers...

 

The situation is a bit better today, I could play during 10 minutes before a crash.

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well, I would extend the current subscriptions for a week or so,

as it is really bad to pay for waiting screens..

But I am not JC.

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5 hours ago, Mbobo2020 said:

Normally I wouldn't mind this kinda fiasco on a normal afla/beta access on a free game, although I will probably avoid it, but we PAID for a SUBSCRIPTION. If you are happy to pay a company to beta test their product that's cool for you. But the majority of sane people are not happy about that. They should at least made subs active at the moment of the actual launch, because you cannot call this mess a launch (I haven't had a straight more than 20 minutes of playtime without a crash in the last 24h) ... let the people beta test their product in the meanwhile. You guys have absolutely NO idea what a beta game should represent anymore. No wonder they get away with this.


I certainly can’t say this as a fact, but NQ are a fair company, I wouldn’t be surprised if they “compensate” beta subscribers for down time by extending their subscriptions.

 

Before the context nazis arrive: THIS IS JUST CONJECTURE...

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7 hours ago, Mbobo2020 said:

Normally I wouldn't mind this kinda fiasco on a normal afla/beta access on a free game, although I will probably avoid it, but we PAID for a SUBSCRIPTION. 

You paid $21 for 90 days of access at the start of an open beta period. If you are already starting to write you paid for s sub in capital letters the first weekend 2 days after a soft launch where it is absolutely to be expected there will be outages, I guess you should really not buy in to a game like this at this stage.

 

Do you think paying $1/hour for acces to a game is fair? If yes, do you expect to get 21 hours out of te game in the next 88 days? If so I'd say you get your money's worth.. If no, I'm not sure why you decided to get a sub anyway tbh.

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Lets not rage against uninformed ppl. 

They only commited 1 mistake, not understanding what beta is. 

Its ok. They are entitled to be fustrated. 

 

But know this, all those restarts and downtime are a result of NQ making progress with the game development. 

Some projects out there dont have several update daily because they are dead. 

We understand your fustration, but if you can keep with us for the 90 days you will see it was worth it. 

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I cant even create a game account . Tells me my first name is invalid .  Absolutely no response to the issue , and no reply to a request for refund.  I'm not paying for a Beta I cant even play. 

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9 minutes ago, McKie said:

I cant even create a game account . Tells me my first name is invalid .  Absolutely no response to the issue , and no reply to a request for refund.  I'm not paying for a Beta I cant even play. 

Have you tried troubleshooting channel on discord? 

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2 hours ago, McKie said:

I cant even create a game account . Tells me my first name is invalid .  Absolutely no response to the issue , and no reply to a request for refund.  I'm not paying for a Beta I cant even play. 

I bet you try the name Mc whitch is not a first name

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Oh now I get it, I end up in the cult of alfa here, defending their ... territory. If you guys can accept to pay a subscription to stare at a network error, and to try to navigate trough the sea of bugs, kudos. No wonder why beta games today are the way they are. I won't. Stop defending this behaviour...

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5 minutes ago, Mbobo2020 said:

Oh now I get it, I end up in the cult of alfa here, defending their ... territory. If you guys can accept to pay a subscription to stare at a network error, and to try to navigate trough the sea of bugs, kudos. No wonder why beta games today are the way they are. I won't. Stop defending this behaviour...

What ever you paid, you paid for a beta product, downtime and bugs are accepted in this phase of the product lifetime. 

You dont have to like it. Hell i dont like it. But you need to accept it can happen in beta. 

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5 minutes ago, Mbobo2020 said:

Oh now I get it, I end up in the cult of alfa here, defending their ... territory. If you guys can accept to pay a subscription to stare at a network error, and to try to navigate trough the sea of bugs, kudos. No wonder why beta games today are the way they are. I won't. Stop defending this behaviour...

 

I'll tell you something that may be kinda hard to accept given your negative feelings towards the game.

There's no other game out there that even comes close to what Dual Universe aims to be.

Right now we're sailing on uncharted waters where anything is bound to happen.

Server crashes , bugs and countless more gameplay interuptions.

In the end of the day it's all a matter of faith, and whether you trust the game succeeds or not is entirely up to you.

One thing is for sure tho, NQ's customer service has been impecable even when it comes to refunds.

Make a ticket on Support,  i'm confident you'll receive all the assistance you need.

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3 hours ago, Armedwithwings said:

 

I'll tell you something that may be kinda hard to accept given your negative feelings towards the game.

There's no other game out there that even comes close to what Dual Universe aims to be.

Right now we're sailing on uncharted waters where anything is bound to happen.

Server crashes , bugs and countless more gameplay interuptions.

In the end of the day it's all a matter of faith, and whether you trust the game succeeds or not is entirely up to you.

One thing is for sure tho, NQ's customer service has been impecable even when it comes to refunds.

Make a ticket on Support,  i'm confident you'll receive all the assistance you need.

Do you guys read before post? I'm not hating the game, I like the concept, otherwise I won't be here. What I don't like though is your mentality. You are ok with paying for something that you should not pay. And making it worse you are trying to convince everyone else that is ok to do it. It's not right, the game is unplayable atm, and it should be at least somehow stable because they tested this on several stress tests that considering these last days either were poorly conducted or they were bogus... Sure it may be stable in a week or so(hopefully), but many of the people that paid a subscription after the backer period ended are not the same as alfa backers. They cannot waste a weekend staring at errors and crashes. As I've said above I already made a ticket for a refund but that's not the damn point. I liked the idea and I liked what I've seen in their developer videos. I really, really thought they gonna have a good launch for Beta, and ofc I was expecting some crashes here and then, but not like this. This industry has slowly moved the quality standard and the beta/alfa definitions so far that you cannot even differentiate between different stages in a game development. And we accept this... Oh and: "In the end of the day it's all a matter of faith"... really? So I wasn't far away on my last comment. I'm gonna close my rant here, you do you, I will uphold my principles. Have fun.

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cant even log into the web site to look at my account let alone try to play the game 

and talking like beta is ALFA is a joke there shouldn't be mass crashes let alone charging people and not even letting them look at account details on their web site or you know be able to log into the web site

devs telaporting people all over the place basic tutorial broken basic game tools breaking and not being able to be placed after being picked up

the game is still in alfa.

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17 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

Lets not rage against uninformed ppl. 

They only commited 1 mistake, not understanding what beta is. 

Its ok. They are entitled to be fustrated. 

Not really. Beta test is clearly signposted throughout the subscription process. Wilful ignorance is not excusable.

17 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

 

But know this, all those restarts and downtime are a result of NQ making progress with the game development. 

Some projects out there dont have several update daily because they are dead. 

This is all true.

17 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

We understand your fustration...

I'm afraid I don't. It's perfectly clear that there will be interruptions in service and general difficulties: its a beta test.

 

If someone didn't want to pay to test the game they should not have stumped up the money. It really isn't difficult, and if they fail that test, perhaps they should be given a refund because they won't be able to deal with the concepts required to play the game, simple though they are.

17 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

... but if you can keep with us for the 90 days you will see it was worth it. 

I hope you're right, and I bet my 60 bucks that it will be by the time of release. I'd also judge that (assuming your rig is actually up to scratch; this game's minimum specs are true scraping-the-bottom minima) 20 bucks for three months, even with outages and downtime and glitches and reworks of mechanics will be value for money for the kind of people that like what the game is trying to be. And if 20 bucks is a big issue, perhaps now the NDA is gone, people can wait a few more weeks to see streams and tubes and assess whether it's the kind of game they'll like before having to pay to test and assist (even passively) with the development of the game to where it wants to be. Or they can set aside patience, pay their 20 and, in full knowledge, take their chances with whether it's the game for them.

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11 hours ago, Mbobo2020 said:

Do you guys read before post? I'm not hating the game, I like the concept, otherwise I won't be here. What I don't like though is your mentality. You are ok with paying for something that you should not pay. And making it worse you are trying to convince everyone else that is ok to do it. It's not right, the game is unplayable atm, and it should be at least somehow stable because they tested this on several stress tests that considering these last days either were poorly conducted or they were bogus... Sure it may be stable in a week or so(hopefully), but many of the people that paid a subscription after the backer period ended are not the same as alfa backers. They cannot waste a weekend staring at errors and crashes. As I've said above I already made a ticket for a refund but that's not the damn point. I liked the idea and I liked what I've seen in their developer videos. I really, really thought they gonna have a good launch for Beta, and ofc I was expecting some crashes here and then, but not like this. This industry has slowly moved the quality standard and the beta/alfa definitions so far that you cannot even differentiate between different stages in a game development. And we accept this... Oh and: "In the end of the day it's all a matter of faith"... really? So I wasn't far away on my last comment. I'm gonna close my rant here, you do you, I will uphold my principles. Have fun.

 

It's not a matter of principle it's a matter of opinion.

Even with the constant interuptions i'm having fun and i think it's an extremely entertaining game.

NQ has never disclosed that server performance is severely lacking, however on the other hand they did inform us that they're working hard on improvements.

And with that information i have fully knowledge of the situation in hand and accept the current state of the game.

As for the subscription model, game's in Beta and doesn't charge you a single dime yet.

However if we get on release and no fixes are made while NQ charges you a fee on top , then i can wholeheartly get behind your sentiment.

If u wanna hear me out, consider not refunding yet and pick the game again on a more developed state.

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People complaining about $20 when we alpha backers paid 5 times as much lol. I chose the cheapest option which was 60€ (around $95~ aud). Maybe those people should have done research before spending the money. It's like blindly giving someone $20 without reading the details on the box and then complaining that it didn't meet their expectations lol.

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I'm going to be brutally honest here. Because I really think the Dev's need and deserve that. Let me state that I have been in MULTIPLE Alpha and Beta tests of numerous products over the last 16 years. I know what I am talking about. Also, I couldn't give a rats A** about the twenty dollars. Its not about the money, but giving honest feedback. Also, I think the game's concepts are very good. But that will not matter at all if they aren't implemented correctly.

 

This is NOT a beta. This is an early access. Dev's don't charge people to Beta test their products. Betas let people stress test your product so they can find bugs that would not appear under non-stress scenarios. Also, this game is not in a Beta condition. In it's current state it is closer to a late Alpha build.

 

This game is a mess ATM. Its is VERY un-optimized.  Ridiculously low FPS on high end machines. Disconnects. Crashes. In truth, this should not be in Beta.  And charging people to test it in this state is going to draw backlash. Do you pay your Employer to go to work every day? I'm betting you don't.

 

Let me finish by saying I REALLY hope this game gets off the ground. It has some great ideas and would make a great MMO. But, a release is nowhere on the horizon. In its current state I would say it need at least another 12-16 months of development. I will probably re-visit it in 4-5 months from now  to see where it is at.

 

I Truly wish the Dev's good luck with it. And to keep going. It has a great concept. Just needs better execution.

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