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BaileyVandenbroek

Are Sanctuary territory unit everlasting ? we buy them and they do not require additional cost?

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There must be some kind of upkeep or last logged on timer otherwise we will have tens of thousands claimed tiles by players who last logged into the game 6 or more months ago, and after 4-5 years many players will be living surrounded by ghosts and only way for them to play with friends will be to relocate. Usually MMO games have some kind of system to prevent players that quit to have assets in-game but nothing is known from Novaquark about what will be implemented in DU.

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Well if J.C actually played Eve, I am sure he is probably going to put in some war declaration system that gives (on eve at least) 24 hours for the war dec'ed party to gather their forces and defend themselves. As for constructs being damaged I am unsure if he is going to put in the flawed system of the Eve citadel system/entosis or something along the lines of the pos reinforcement timer. Pos being a player owned star base that is floating in space and allows the the people into the force field to reship or drop off goods/etc. The reinforcement timer is basically the towers are filled with a fuel called Strontium Clathrates which is farmed by players in ice fields. 

 

This fuel has to be measured so that you can have it usually 8-16 hours or 36 hours when it comes out of invulnerability and preferably during the attackers "off peak time" aka EU tz player org attacking  and you swing it to U.S Mtz or w/e tz your group has the most players that can participate. This allows you to gather people to repel the attackers or repair/refuel modules or worse case scenario last a bit longer for the evacuation of assets.

 

The above starbase system does require certain amount of resources per hour to stay anchored and you do have to constantly refuel the modules or risk it coming offline and anyone coming to take w/e they want.

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I like this type of system the best in my opinion  wher you need to log in once a month /maybe the longer you play the longer the timer  

in think if it expires you shuld get youer stuff sent to youer invatory though it is lame when you come back and have to gather all youer stuff again

 

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^^ But i would add that as long as you have a paid sub you wont lose your STU spot. And if you read carefully then you can see there is a difference between a TU and a STU, an STU can only be used on a sanctuary moon or other sanctuary. In that it is different with a TU and that is probably also the reason there might be no upkeep for an STU but there will be for a TU. 

There is a lot of data on STU and TU, but you do need to look around abit ;)

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STU should last for up to 2 months after your last sub ended, effectively giving you the ability to take a couple of months off without worrying about losing everything.

 

I also feel that for people who may be deploying with the military or sent off to work for an extended period of time in remote locations, there should be a "request account freeze" option that safeguards your territories for a given amount of extra time.

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this only works with a payed sub and for instance a 30 days cooldown before you lose rights after sub ends. Adding a request freeze option, although i understand your point, something that is too easily used in a fraudulent way.  NQ cannot ask you for personal stuff so you do not need proof for the work sent off and thus even someone with 3 accounts can use this to have a free STU while working in it on another account, or any other thinkable fraudulent option. Or once placed it never ends or no pay no stu. there are no options left without a breach in privat info or fraudulous use

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On 11/4/2019 at 11:03 AM, Nanoman said:

What's the point of upkeep for anything when you're already paying for a sub...?

 

I would think the sub itself is enough upkeep. Even if you don't log in for months or years, you're paying real money to maintain your stuff.

 

People who've actually abandoned their account and in-game assets would also have stopped buying game time.

The point of upkeep is to prevent stagnation as this is partly a civ building game with the territory ownership concept. If you don't have up keep of any kind other then a sub, this would then create an incentive to just spam every location with constructs and expand. It takes bodies to refuel stuff and this is a natural disincentive to not drop a ton of constructs that would be a waste of resources. 

 

As for a sub upkeep let me put this insight on you. 2009-2012 I had 12 accounts of which only 2 were yearly, the rest 6 month to 3 month increment renewals. This was typical in Eve and there are others that ran +20 accounts on a sub. So depending on pvp, if we took the citadel (space stations) model from Eve and I was limited to 5 space stations to prevent spam, it would take an entity days to go to each location and sit for a few hours blowing the stations up. Structure bashing can get boring very fast. 

On 11/5/2019 at 5:19 PM, Madrummer said:

STU should last for up to 2 months after your last sub ended, effectively giving you the ability to take a couple of months off without worrying about losing everything.

 

I also feel that for people who may be deploying with the military or sent off to work for an extended period of time in remote locations, there should be a "request account freeze" option that safeguards your territories for a given amount of extra time.

Yea and  how fair would it be when I have 12 accounts and stagger the construct with ownership changes of said construct? I can just re-sub at a particular time and just need a few minutes to just change ownership. Basically re-sub the account after 2 month cool down and change it to the next toon for another 2 month cool down, rinse and repeat. I would think that making a person put effort to maintaining a construct would prevent a lot of the spam. Plus when you run an actual group it isn't an issue as you just change roles and give the leadership/duty to someone you trust and things continue as normal. Poorly managed groups don't have a continuity plan and so they tend to not last that long. 

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On 11/5/2019 at 5:19 PM, Madrummer said:

I also feel that for people who may be deploying with the military or sent off to work for an extended period of time in remote locations, there should be a "request account freeze" option that safeguards your territories for a given amount of extra time.

I actually disagree here, there should be no way to freeze an account for any reason whatsoever.  Why should someone get a freeze for X reason, but the next person get denied for reason Y?  Just muddies things is all.

 

Also, who determines what gets a freeze?  Is NQ personnel sifting through every single case?  

 

I just do not see that working tbh.

 

I also don’t think there’s a need for a grace period more than a week...

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Indeed for a game that is subbed a freeze is unwanted. not being able to play would not hinder you to pay for a sub, and if you cannot pay that cannot be a reason for a freeze

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Most commenters here seem to miss that, by far, not all players will have STUs. For example, there are none initially given to people who bought the Contributor Pack, according to https://www.dualthegame.com/en/pledge/. Sponsors get one, Patrons get two. So possibly, there is a limit of a few STUs per account and for players that did not buy at least the Sponsor Pack, an STU will probably cost real extra money.

Given that there are hundreds of thousands Sanctuary Tiles on Alioth alone, empty STs will be in abundance .

 

Update: I just came across the following statement of Novaquark:

Quote

A normal Territory Unit can be deployed on any Territory Tile (in Arkship Secure Areas, Moon Secure Areas or Unsecure Areas).
Sanctuary Territory Units are Territory Units with limited powers: they can only be used to claim a Territory Tile in Moon Secure Areas (MSA).

(https://www.dualthegame.com/en/news/2018/03/02/more-info-on-sanctuary-territory-units/)

 

In this case, my statement is obsolete. But I think they really should allow only STUs on Sanctuary Ground and fix the issue that way. Especially, they should allow STUs in Alioth’s Sanctuary Area.

Edited by Dragorion

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11 minutes ago, Dragorion said:

Given that there are hundreds of thousands Sanctuary Tiles on Alioth alone, empty STs will be in abundance .

There are 0 sanctuary tiles on alioth. Also, buying them for RL money would go against their p2w ideology. 

 

STUs are used on MSA, not ASA 

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14 minutes ago, Lethys said:

There are 0 sanctuary tiles on alioth. Also, buying them for RL money would go against their p2w ideology. 

 

STUs are used on MSA, not ASA 

I just noticed that and edited my comment. I do not see how it is p2w as you cannot even pvp in those zones. It is rather pay to not fight (i.e. neither win nor lose). I’d call it pay for peace.

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Just now, Dragorion said:

I just noticed that and edited my comment. I do not see how it is p2w as you cannot even pvp in those zones. It is rather pay to not fight (i.e. neither win nor lose).

Imho nothing should be sold for rl money (except maybe customizeable appearances). It is p2w if you can just buy a unit which helps you "defend" indefinitly by just hiding on some moon and bring all your stuff there which then cant be taken/Destroyed by anyone else. Also. Its only semantics so who cares xD

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Though that way, there has to be a limitation of Sanctuary Tiles (STs) a player can own. Since when some super rich organization or enough trolls decide to spam TUs in Sanctuary Areas to leave no safe space for others, that would indeed break the purpose of SAs.

 

Is anywhere written whether STUs will be craftable? Because otherwise, many players may still never own a ST, due to crafting a TU is supposed to be super expensive. Then, combined with an account limit for STs, my argument still holds. At least if one chooses to ignore semantics, like you did.

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As far as I know there is nothing specifically written about whether STU's are currently or will be craftable. Due to NDA there is much I can not say, however, I will say that I believe NQ will not set up a system which would obviously be very short sighted. IMHO, there will likely be an easy way for each individual to be given a single unit. I also do not believe a single person will be allowed more than one.

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On 11/5/2019 at 6:18 AM, Aaron Cain said:

Exactly, extra upkeep for an STU while paying a sub is too much.

 

Exactly even requirement of fuel for a STU or TU is stupid TUs are used for griefing protection I think that you can still be attacked.. but you will only need to repair your buildings not rebuild..

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On 1/2/2020 at 1:15 AM, Dragorion said:

Though that way, there has to be a limitation of Sanctuary Tiles (STs) a player can own. Since when some super rich organization or enough trolls decide to spam TUs in Sanctuary Areas to leave no safe space for others, that would indeed break the purpose of SAs.

 

Is anywhere written whether STUs will be craftable? Because otherwise, many players may still never own a ST, due to crafting a TU is supposed to be super expensive. Then, combined with an account limit for STs, my argument still holds. At least if one chooses to ignore semantics, like you did.

I think they should have a restriction true but based on their number of members.. Like for example me I wanna build a huge city that will prob require 3-4 TU or 2 idk.. but would be very dissapointed if I cannot do that..

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STU I don't think need an upkeep, a TCU however is an entirely different beast.

 

With a TCU you as an org, or player are holding down teritory in an open area and you're using that for power projection, resource security, and a host of other things.

Not adding an upkeep can create situations where an organization can hold large swathes of land at little or no cost, making it harder for the little guys to actually own

anything outside of the sanctuary zones. Adding a resource sink, even a relatively small one balances this.

 

For an org of 3-500 people a TCU will likely cost pretty much nothing, especially compared to a smaller org of 50.

Adding that resource sink will create a sweetspot where orgs, and players can still keep up with the upkeep, but will not grow disproportionally.

 

PvP is one mitigating factor in this, but that is incidental. You cannot ensure a hex will be attacked.

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they can also limit it by limiting the number of "active" TCU's a single player or org can have - increasing for orgs with membership and players perhaps with a talent/skill

 

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