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unown006

Cloaking Tech

Cloaking tech  

62 members have voted

  1. 1. Dynamic constructs only

    • Yes no restrictions
      7
    • Limited and costly but viable
      46
    • Do not add this the game will die before it begins
      9
  2. 2. Static constructs only

    • Yes no restrictions
      7
    • Limited and costly but viable
      36
    • Do not add this the game will die before it begins
      19
  3. 3. Players only

    • Yes no restrictions
      5
    • Limited and costly but viable
      34
    • Do not add this the game will die before it begins
      23


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Stealth technology and detection technology, even in a futuristic sy-fi game, would have to take its queues from our current understanding of these technologies, and known possibilities, if said game intends to be balanced and fair.  Although imagination is the cornerstone of DU, combat technologies are not.  I see a civilization trying to rebuild not self-destruct.  Conflict is bound to happen when groups decide not to work together, but the intent is not to force such a scenario; it is not only unrealistic in an economically and politically driven world, but detrimental to the core mission of the more evolved survivor of Armageddon: they did not spend 400 years researching how to destroy each other, but how to rebuild.

That said, all war technology should be limited and used sparingly and at great cost not only financially but also politically.  Defense should hold a higher priority in any case and be given much stronger mechanics.

Finally, if I may say, I think it would be great if, when building such systems, much thought and research was put into them, so that they have some scientific basis (though fictional), balanced, and consistent with the technologies related to a society attempting to rebuild light-years from home.

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6 hours ago, dw_ace_918 said:

Stealth technology and detection technology, even in a futuristic sy-fi game, would have to take its queues from our current understanding of these technologies, and known possibilities, if said game intends to be balanced and fair.  Although imagination is the cornerstone of DU, combat technologies are not.  I see a civilization trying to rebuild not self-destruct.  Conflict is bound to happen when groups decide not to work together, but the intent is not to force such a scenario; it is not only unrealistic in an economically and politically driven world, but detrimental to the core mission of the more evolved survivor of Armageddon: they did not spend 400 years researching how to destroy each other, but how to rebuild.

That said, all war technology should be limited and used sparingly and at great cost not only financially but also politically.  Defense should hold a higher priority in any case and be given much stronger mechanics.

Finally, if I may say, I think it would be great if, when building such systems, much thought and research was put into them, so that they have some scientific basis (though fictional), balanced, and consistent with the technologies related to a society attempting to rebuild light-years from home.

First of all please us the default text colour because I can't see shit.

 

So as far as I understand the technology you research is stuff that comes with the arkship? Ifso then yes I do agree that war technology should have a separate place in how you research it. For instance it could be derivative of arkship technology, a secret cache from a malignant individual or entity independent of the ship.

 

But even so, the gameplay is not defined by the lore it is defined by the players. I don't see the limiting of gameplay to that degree for the sole cause of immersion is acceptable. If a player has wrathful intent then so be it.

 

Even if it was to be debated from a philosophical and lore friendly standpoint, you have to accept that humans are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. It's our nature to do so.

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Yes, in the end players will determine the fate of this game, as I understand it.

Therefore, what we can accomplish will follow how players interact and how we use the tools given to us in this new world.

In the end, I hope it is something fun for all.

I apologize for the color, was not intended.

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1 hour ago, Veld said:

First of all please us the default text colour because I can't see shit.

 

So as far as I understand the technology you research is stuff that comes with the arkship? Ifso then yes I do agree that war technology should have a separate place in how you research it. For instance it could be derivative of arkship technology, a secret cache from a malignant individual or entity independent of the ship.

 

But even so, the gameplay is not defined by the lore it is defined by the players. I don't see the limiting of gameplay to that degree for the sole cause of immersion is acceptable. If a player has wrathful intent then so be it.

 

Even if it was to be debated from a philosophical and lore friendly standpoint, you have to accept that humans are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. It's our nature to do so.

Yeah, I guess I agree with most of that. In the end, if there is some type of stealth it would be used for lots of things other than just combat.

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On 4/21/2018 at 9:58 PM, 0something0 said:

On the other hand, space is a vaccum. Heat transfer by radiation is inefficient. So active vessels that emits heat can be seen easily. Espacially when said heat is literal plasma coming out the back of your engines.

This is why true stealth should be based on 'real' physics. Do  your burn from a long way away, in a small, dark ship, kill all power and lights, and drift silently by among other debris. If you do this you are almost invisible. If you do anything at all to generate heat or light or alter your trajectory you're going to be noticed.

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Stealth technology and detection technology, even in a futuristic sy-fi game, would have to take its queues from our current understanding of these technologies, and known possibilities, if said game intends to be balanced and fair.  Although imagination is the cornerstone of DU, combat technologies are not.  I see a civilization trying to rebuild not self-destruct.  Conflict is bound to happen when groups decide not to work together, but the intent is not to force such a scenario; it is not only unrealistic in an economically and politically driven world, but detrimental to the core mission of the more evolved survivor of Armageddon: they did not spend 400 years researching how to destroy each other, but how to rebuild.

That said, all war technology should be limited and used sparingly and at great cost not only financially but also politically.  Defense should hold a higher priority in any case and be given much stronger mechanics.

Finally, if I may say, I think it would be great if, when building such systems, much thought and research was put into them, so that they have some scientific basis (though fictional), balanced, and consistent with the technologies related to a society attempting to rebuild light-years from home.

14 hours ago, dw_ace_918 said:

Stealth technology and detection technology, even in a futuristic sy-fi game, would have to take its queues from our current understanding of these technologies, and known possibilities, if said game intends to be balanced and fair.  Although imagination is the cornerstone of DU, combat technologies are not.  I see a civilization trying to rebuild not self-destruct.  Conflict is bound to happen when groups decide not to work together, but the intent is not to force such a scenario; it is not only unrealistic in an economically and politically driven world, but detrimental to the core mission of the more evolved survivor of Armageddon: they did not spend 400 years researching how to destroy each other, but how to rebuild.

That said, all war technology should be limited and used sparingly and at great cost not only financially but also politically.  Defense should hold a higher priority in any case and be given much stronger mechanics.

Finally, if I may say, I think it would be great if, when building such systems, much thought and research was put into them, so that they have some scientific basis (though fictional), balanced, and consistent with the technologies related to a society attempting to rebuild light-years from home.

 

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When push comes to shove this is a discussion of applications and requirements of signals intelligence - how NQ provides game concepts and turns those into mechanisms is the real question, and I'm sure the real debat at NQ. Any discussion on stealth and cloaking follows the concepts they decide on as this is what determines available and potential mechanisms. 

 

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14 hours ago, unown006 said:

That said, all war technology should be limited and used sparingly and at great cost not only financially but also politically.  Defense should hold a higher priority in any case and be given much stronger mechanics.

That's a noble theory, but DU is a game, not RL.

 

A significant proportion of DU's players will be here because they want to wage war, not because they want to maintain peace.

 

Most of the discussions around PVP mechanics on these boards are not on how to avoid combat, but rather on how to effectively kill other players in fun and interesting ways... ;)

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2 hours ago, NanoDot said:

That's a noble theory, but DU is a game, not RL.

 

A significant proportion of DU's players will be here because they want to wage war, not because they want to maintain peace.

 

Most of the discussions around PVP mechanics on these boards are not on how to avoid combat, but rather on how to effectively kill other players in fun and interesting ways... ;)

I believe that is a misconception of the PvP discussions on this forum.  Most discussions turn at one point to balance between PvP, and Non-PvP.  If you take the forums as an indicator of what people want (which would not be an effective measure) then there are probably just as many people wanting non-PvP activities as wanting PvP.  To be fair it is probably a lot of people that want to do some of both (but with a preference one way or other) and a small amount that want only one or the other.  We need balance as NQ has pointed out so that all play styles are represented.

Edited by Felonu
Typo

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9 minutes ago, Felonu said:

We need balance as NQ has pointed out so that all play styles are represented.

How that "balance" will be achieved is a mystery to me. I'm genuinely interested to see how it all plays out.

 

Unless by "balance" we're talking about non-PVP'ers playing in 5% of the game world (safezones)  and PVP'ers owning the other 95%...

 

I have never seen a MMO with FFA-PVP that was able to sustain a significant community of non-PVP'ers for very long. EVE comes closest, I'd say, but EVE has considerably more protections than DU appears to have, and it has a large amount of PVE content for those that are PVE-focused. Even so, EVE does not have a huge community of non-PVP'ers, but it IS possible to play the game that way. At least it was when I played it...

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2 hours ago, NanoDot said:

How that "balance" will be achieved is a mystery to me. I'm genuinely interested to see how it all plays out.

 

Unless by "balance" we're talking about non-PVP'ers playing in 5% of the game world (safezones)  and PVP'ers owning the other 95%...

 

I have never seen a MMO with FFA-PVP that was able to sustain a significant community of non-PVP'ers for very long. EVE comes closest, I'd say, but EVE has considerably more protections than DU appears to have, and it has a large amount of PVE content for those that are PVE-focused. Even so, EVE does not have a huge community of non-PVP'ers, but it IS possible to play the game that way. At least it was when I played it...

To tie the idea back to the OP, cloaking technology is one aspect that can be use in this balance by limiting the PvP exposure for those individuals.  We don't know how all the protections will be implemented, or how that will balance the different playstyles yet.  We can only take NQ at it's word that they intend to do so.  This is why I believe these discussions about the different ways to implement these technologies are important, and you see me commenting as much as I do on them.  I, personally, have little interest in the PvP gameplay, but see the value in it.  I want the game to be fun for me, because the building aspect in a single shard universe is a dream come true.  For that to be true there does need to be a balance between more and less aggressive play styles.

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There is no such magic as "balance". This is a game, subject to iteration, at minimum because in a sandbox people will always go overboard with anything. 

 

The truth is that this is just a perception problem. It's not a real problem. It's a big universe, and nobody needs to be alone. Heck, even the guys or girls who want to play alone have plenty of room and opportunity. 

 

The reality of a sandbox is that nobody and nothing guarantees any sort of magic protection some might see as necessary for any chosen type of gameplay. It's a sandbox, so it is entirely up to the player. 

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10 hours ago, NanoDot said:

How that "balance" will be achieved is a mystery to me. I'm genuinely interested to see how it all plays out.

 

Unless by "balance" we're talking about non-PVP'ers playing in 5% of the game world (safezones)  and PVP'ers owning the other 95%...

 

I have never seen a MMO with FFA-PVP that was able to sustain a significant community of non-PVP'ers for very long. EVE comes closest, I'd say, but EVE has considerably more protections than DU appears to have, and it has a large amount of PVE content for those that are PVE-focused. Even so, EVE does not have a huge community of non-PVP'ers, but it IS possible to play the game that way. At least it was when I played it...

And then DU was born.....

 

7 hours ago, virtuozzo said:

There is no such magic as "balance". This is a game, subject to iteration, at minimum because in a sandbox people will always go overboard with anything. 

 

The truth is that this is just a perception problem. It's not a real problem. It's a big universe, and nobody needs to be alone. Heck, even the guys or girls who want to play alone have plenty of room and opportunity. 

 

The reality of a sandbox is that nobody and nothing guarantees any sort of magic protection some might see as necessary for any chosen type of gameplay. It's a sandbox, so it is entirely up to the player. 

Yes kind of the theirs a protection safe zone more or less anywhere but there

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7 hours ago, virtuozzo said:

It's a sandbox, so it is entirely up to the player. 

Totally agree.

 

To argue from a philosophical standpoint. Nobody intrinsically had rights. Rights are something we have to fight for ourselves and protect as individuals dedicated to a single and subjective moral cause. In a game which attempts to encompass the freedom of human ingenuity, I don't see much handholding other than safezones for PVE players.

 

To use myself as an example, I don't concern myself with PvP. Partly because I suck and partly because I have other things to do. My organisation will be able to protect those rights for me to not have to engage in combat in exchange for my services.

 

You as a civilian in the real world have your rights protected by your government. Your government is subject to failure and misconduct. Are you digging bunkers, hording canned food and amassing an arsenal? Perhaps; perhaps not. But in the case of the latter, it is because you are either a sheep or you take full advantage of your civil rights to live your life how you want. DU is no different.

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6 minutes ago, Veld said:

Totally agree.

 

To argue from a philosophical standpoint. Nobody intrinsically had rights. Rights are something we have to fight for ourselves and protect as individuals dedicated to a single and subjective moral cause. In a game which attempts to encompass the freedom of human ingenuity, I don't see much handholding other than safezones for PVE players.

 

To use myself as an example, I don't concern myself with PvP. Partly because I suck and partly because I have other things to do. My organisation will be able to protect those rights for me to not have to engage in combat in exchange for my services.

 

You as a civilian in the real world have your rights protected by your government. Your government is subject to failure and misconduct. Are you digging bunkers, hording canned food and amassing an arsenal? Perhaps; perhaps not. But in the case of the latter, it is because you are either a sheep or you take full advantage of your civil rights to live your life how you want. DU is no different.

Pretty much back to the art of cloaking...

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5 hours ago, unown006 said:

Pretty much back to the art of cloaking...

That has nothing to do with cloaking. What was said deals with 'protection of a heard/group in a mutually beneficial way'.

 

Has little to do with technology of any kind.

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1 minute ago, CoreVamore said:

That has nothing to do with cloaking. What was said deals with 'protection of a heard/group in a mutually beneficial way'.

 

Has little to do with technology of any kind.

You need to read more carefully As I agreed and suggested the thread continue with the topic of cloaking

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1 hour ago, CoreVamore said:

Lol u need to phrase things better ;)

 

Agreed, @unown006 i actually have a hard time understanding you in a lot of your posts. But yes we do need to get back on topic. But at the same time I think we should keep the discussion open to minor digressions.

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On 4/21/2018 at 9:58 PM, 0something0 said:

On the other hand, space is a vaccum. Heat transfer by radiation is inefficient. So active vessels that emits heat can be seen easily. Espacially when said heat is literal plasma coming out the back of your engines.

Yep as long as you have a good enough radar.So then you would reqire putting other things on your ship like heat shields to fix that.

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a good idea is to use battery system with a stock and a reload speed. each component use it but if you exceed the reload speed you use the stock energy and when you reach zero you get a small blackout.

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7 hours ago, lysander051 said:

a good idea is to use battery system with a stock and a reload speed. each component use it but if you exceed the reload speed you use the stock energy and when you reach zero you get a small blackout.

However what if you can make enough energy to sustain it?

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6 hours ago, unown006 said:

However what if you can make enough energy to sustain it?

your ship becomes heavier and bigger. so, you need to buy more Glock modules or a bigger one who consume a lot. 

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On 5/5/2018 at 12:33 PM, lysander said:

your ship becomes heavier and bigger. so, you need to buy more Glock modules or a bigger one who consume a lot. 

However you could use something else?

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On 5/1/2018 at 12:12 AM, dw_ace_918 said:

Stealth technology and detection technology, even in a futuristic sy-fi game, would have to take its queues from our current understanding of these technologies, and known possibilities, if said game intends to be balanced and fair.  Although imagination is the cornerstone of DU, combat technologies are not.  I see a civilization trying to rebuild not self-destruct.  Conflict is bound to happen when groups decide not to work together, but the intent is not to force such a scenario; it is not only unrealistic in an economically and politically driven world, but detrimental to the core mission of the more evolved survivor of Armageddon: they did not spend 400 years researching how to destroy each other, but how to rebuild.

That said, all war technology should be limited and used sparingly and at great cost not only financially but also politically.  Defense should hold a higher priority in any case and be given much stronger mechanics.

Finally, if I may say, I think it would be great if, when building such systems, much thought and research was put into them, so that they have some scientific basis (though fictional), balanced, and consistent with the technologies related to a society attempting to rebuild light-years from home.

Uh... Cool.

We don't care about politics when we're blowing shit up and cloaking.

---

How to do cloaks in 7 EZ STEPZ:

Won: Base it off stealth bombers, with them paint 'n stuffs.

Too: Less energy and heat emissions or equalizing it with the background.

Tree: Or just say "haha no" and just make them POOFERINOS out of existance.

For: Blow up the baddie's ship before th3y see you. Easily the best option.

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