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Urbanization won't be a thing in DU?


Ghoster
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In real life cities are built for a number of reasons (duh!):
access to workplaces (income), shops (food, clothes, goods etc.), communication (internet), infrastructure (energy, water, waste disposing, public transportation), healthcare, leisure, etc.

These fundamental factors which contribute to urbanization IRL won't be pretty much present in DU. People will be spread around different organizations, cartels, syndicates, corporations, etc., maintaining their own infrastructure, energy grid, factories, landing/docking/building sites, defense systems, etc.

So I guess we won't be seeing large cities in DU, unless some very dedicated urbanists will be willing to design them just for the sake of design itself.

Don't get me wrong, I don't feel discouraged from playing DU in any aspect whatsoever, however I just realized the things I've written above and it kinda made me a little upset, that's all.

Or maybe I'm just plain wrong? 

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I don't know about you, but I want ghettos in the game, where we shove all the newbies to pull themselves up by their own boot-straps.



And you underestimate the need for people to see other people in video-games. Urban centers give access to markets, to traders to congregate, therefore, a need for safe log-out areas, with a nearby docking yard to park your spiffy ride, if the Devs decide to add the need for a "safe log-out" mechanism, with your own or rented place acting as a safe log-out from all possible threats, especially in an arkified or guarded by players zone.


So yeah, ghettos.

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For the most part I would agree with you, with the exception of the starting area around the ark. I see a city forming around it because we will all be stuck on that planet for roughly a month and its going to be where all newbies come. so I see each org having a recruitment office and a thriving neutral market occurring.

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While the assumption is correct that many will aim for their own separate infrastructure to some extend, cities will be a thing for a number of reasons regardless.

 

Time will tell.

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I think it depends, if you have a few bigger organizations that are allied building near or next to one another, for security, support, or the combined goal of building a big settlement, you could have urbanization forming. For me it comes back to how willing are people and organizations to work together, instead of against each other.

 

That said, resources will get used up, so large urbanized areas may or may not be ideal.

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I think it depends, if you have a few bigger organizations that are allied building near or next to one another, for security, support, or the combined goal of building a big settlement, you could have urbanization forming. For me it comes back to how willing are people and organizations to work together, instead of against each other.

 

That said, resources will get used up, so large urbanized areas may or may not be ideal.

If you have some cold rock in space in relative vicinity you can mine, it should be fine. Rhyme.

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I think it depends, if you have a few bigger organizations that are allied building near or next to one another, for security, support, or the combined goal of building a big settlement, you could have urbanization forming. For me it comes back to how willing are people and organizations to work together, instead of against each other.

 

That said, resources will get used up, so large urbanized areas may or may not be ideal.

 

Methinks that'll just make markets more lucrative, since the lack of resources in that area means people can't get them in bulk quite as easily.

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 People will be spread around different organizations, cartels, syndicates, corporations, etc., maintaining their own infrastructure, energy grid, factories, landing/docking/building sites, defense systems, etc.

 

Indeed, but you will be able to encounter them when you arrive at said locations, and in many case, it will just look like a city, an outpost, an industrial complex, etc ...

They will be scattered for sure. This doesn't prevent the inevitable mess around the Arkship to form and who knows, a coruscent-style area may be there after some time.

 

And like others said before, alliances will form and regroup ;)

This what we did in SWG (Kauri) by grouping most Empire PvP guilds into one player-built city called "Core Bastion", including  housing, cantinas, medical facilities, defenses etc. After a time, the opposite faction (rebels) did the same just across the river, bringing EPIC pvp and fun times each day for a 2 year period

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I know the idea of of having a bunch of ark zones is not very popular around here... But I've always liked the idea of a large city and an ark zone going hand in hand. 

 

I'm not saying that all cities should start by creating a player made ark zone, but that arkification should be the eventual goal of any large settlement. As has been confirmed by the dev's, player made ark zones (if they are implemented) will require butloads of resources and maintenance costs to keep them going. The reason I feel they go hand in hand with cities is that neutral/protected areas will naturally draw players as a place to start businesses and make constructs.

 

I think that many of the pressures that lead to the flourishing of cities can actually be implemented in one form or another in game:

 

Markets -We know that when you want to sell a product it is limited to a physical location. So the easiest way to complete a transaction is to actually go to the location of the market. It would be mutually beneficial for market owners to group their businesses together in cities to reach the largest player base possible.

 

Resurrection Nodes - An ideal place for RNs to be built is in a populated place. After you die, you will likely need to make some purchases to get back on your feet again (a new ship, weapons etc.) It has been suggested that apartment complexes (run by players who charge rent) with rooms complete with an RN and some storage space might be an ideal home for new players. 

 

Infrastructure - We don't know much about rail systems or other forms of ground based transport yet, but it seems entirely possible that public transport systems might be built for players to get around cities and planets

 

Embassies - I suspect many organizations will want to have embassies in populated areas and group them together further adding to the purpose of cities.

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Just to add on to what Code was saying its aslo likely that with travel times being so long for the most part that those companies will also build factories and such near to where people are starting to settle so that travel times do not cut into work time or the other way around.

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I completely Concur with Code here.

Ark zones will be a natural attraction point for all types of players, regardless of whether you need to be there or not. It's safety and a lot of people want that every now and then. Plus, I'm sure the ark zones will become bustling centers based around a market anyway. Much like a trade/market hub in any game, the area surrounding becomes extremely built up by people trying to produce goods close to a safe market and people just trying to survive. It's just one of the things people do as a survival tactic without even thinking (safety means survival).

Though, there will be more daring settlements I'm sure. But overall, urbanization will certainly be a big aspect once we see these Ark zones being maintained by players.

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All should keep in mind however: the larger or bigger you build, the more likely it becomes that someone will eventually try to damage that. Even if it's just a small group.

 

Creators should therefore not just plan all their nice designs and whatnot but how to defend these when it really comes down, too. And even then calculate that a major or total loss could still happen. At least mentally prepare for that.

 

I expect some of the notable stations, settlements or cities to see war or lie in ruins over a prolonged time.

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In real life cities are built for a number of reasons (duh!):

access to workplaces (income), shops (food, clothes, goods etc.), communication (internet), infrastructure (energy, water, waste disposing, public transportation), healthcare, leisure, etc.

 

These fundamental factors which contribute to urbanization IRL won't be pretty much present in DU. People will be spread around different organizations, cartels, syndicates, corporations, etc., maintaining their own infrastructure, energy grid, factories, landing/docking/building sites, defense systems, etc.

 

So I guess we won't be seeing large cities in DU, unless some very dedicated urbanists will be willing to design them just for the sake of design itself.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't feel discouraged from playing DU in any aspect whatsoever, however I just realized the things I've written above and it kinda made me a little upset, that's all.

 

Or maybe I'm just plain wrong? 

 

Modern Cities are built around the exploitation of Private Cars, It's why cities in the USA are unnecessarily large and population density is low. It makes a lot of problems, One being that people are forced into a lifestyle of owning cars to be able to live happily. Public transport also suffers etc.

 

In DU however, I wouldn't be surprised if cities are very dense, Because of the readily available use of space ships and easy access to energy exploitation, Most of the efforts of a city would be to design around the concept of Arcology Construction 

 

arcology.jpgcrystalisland-fosterpartners.png

 

A single large, monolithic Construction for the purpose of housing peoples in the many hundreds of millions, In essence, the building behaves sort of like a Central Processing chip, Where you have inputs of raw materials and goods that may be required and an Output of Export materials depending on the Skill set of the population and the careers players might choose to specialize in. 

 

Arcology Construction is extremely Efficient in the amount of room taken, compared to the amount of commute time needed. Rather than needing to travel 1 and 1/2 hours to your work, just take an elevator down to the industrial complex, or IT department.  

 

Or at least that's the philosophy an industrially minded person like me would chose to design cities.

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Modern Cities are built around the exploitation of Private Cars, It's why cities in the USA are unnecessarily large and population density is low. It makes a lot of problems, One being that people are forced into a lifestyle of owning cars to be able to live happily. Public transport also suffers etc.

 

In DU however, I wouldn't be surprised if cities are very dense, Because of the readily available use of space ships and easy access to energy exploitation, Most of the efforts of a city would be to design around the concept of Arcology Construction 

 

arcology.jpgcrystalisland-fosterpartners.png

 

A single large, monolithic Construction for the purpose of housing peoples in the many hundreds of millions, In essence, the building behaves sort of like a Central Processing chip, Where you have inputs of raw materials and goods that may be required and an Output of Export materials depending on the Skill set of the population and the careers players might choose to specialize in. 

 

Arcology Construction is extremely Efficient in the amount of room taken, compared to the amount of commute time needed. Rather than needing to travel 1 and 1/2 hours to your work, just take an elevator down to the industrial complex, or IT department.  

 

Or at least that's the philosophy an industrially minded person like me would chose to design cities.

 

Arcology Construction is indeed more compact than a normal city, and cheaper when it comes to resources. However, my concern with that is, rather that have several hundred buildings spaced apart from each other as a target, any attacker would only have one target to shoot at, which makes crippling the city much easier.

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Arcology Construction is indeed more compact than a normal city, and cheaper when it comes to resources. However, my concern with that is, rather that have several hundred buildings spaced apart from each other as a target, any attacker would only have one target to shoot at, which makes crippling the city much easier.

would only work if its under an ark shield

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All should keep in mind however: the larger or bigger you build, the more likely it becomes that someone will eventually try to damage that. Even if it's just a small group.

 

Creators should therefore not just plan all their nice designs and whatnot but how to defend these when it really comes down, too. And even then calculate that a major or total loss could still happen. At least mentally prepare for that.

 

I expect some of the notable stations, settlements or cities to see war or lie in ruins over a prolonged time.

 

This is why I would advocate for building cities under player made ark zones. It would still be possible to attack and disable the ark zone with an overwhelming force, but it would make cities much harder targets. 

 

Also, the setup of the ark zone would take around a week (I think NQ said that somewhere in the forums) so defensive measures, like setting up turrets and using security forces would be necessary to get the city going.

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I can see something like this in the start zone around the ark ship, then there is no taking over etc....  Also there will be centers like this to bring traders, and buyers together, He said in the interview that when you buy something you still need to get it from the sellers location, which will make centers like this more popular for merchants etc...  Also as a place later on other planets, the community would hopefully help defend them since it is a commerce center.

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The Ark zones will naturally be an urban type of area.  With organizations spamming or doing anything to try to top the others in recruitment and it being a non-pvp zone this will be a natural place to have the main market and area of interaction along with noob starter homes.

 

After a while there will be other market hub locations determined by factors like location and safety spreading further and further from the Ark ship. 

 

The Ark ship will definitely be the main urban area even when other locations become more popular with more established players.

 

If you ever played Star Wars Galaxies or many other mmo's where there is a noob starting location it is like spam central with guilds trying to recruit new players.

 

Without knowing  .... heck without the "rules" of the game even being decided yet it is sort of hard to plan the how this will happen but I dream of being a part of some location or locations where players are SAFE and hang out, trade, etc.  and not just Yin Yang Federation only, but like minded organizations whom all benefit with a location like this outside of the Ark ship area.

 

With a game so open and so much opportunity to be creative, having urban centers allow the spread of ideas that lead to other creations and so on, in which all benefit.   This also allows more depth for role play for those who like to.  Heck, I may just open a bar as the first thing I try to do when the game launches :D

 

However Ghoster, I would guess even if urban centers pop up, most will have their HQ or something somewhere remote for secrecy and/or safety.

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However Ghoster, I would guess even if urban centers pop up, most will have their HQ or something somewhere remote for secrecy and/or safety.

I'd argue the other way around: if your (fancy) HQ is in the middle of nowhere and under siege no one may be in reach to help but you and your people. Attacking it in the middle of a policed major or moderately sized population center would be somewhat harder I like to think. It would be known by location but other than that could have the same security standards.

 

Let people put their bases or HQs, rather, where they want. But we will put it straight in some city. Getting in, I'm not sure. But getting out again with potential goods? Not as easy as potential trespasser or attacker.

 

So while having some installation or say HQ elsewhere may favor secrecy, I'm not sure on the safety assumption.

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I'd argue the other way around: if your (fancy) HQ is in the middle of nowhere and under siege no one may be in reach to help but you and your people. Attacking it in the middle of a policed major or moderately sized population center would be somewhat harder I like to think. It would be known by location but other than that could have the same security standards.

 

Let people put their bases or HQs, rather, where they want. But we will put it straight in some city. Getting in, I'm not sure. But getting out again with potential goods? Not as easy as potential trespasser or attacker.

 

So while having some installation or say HQ elsewhere may favor secrecy, I'm not sure on the safety assumption.

 

Good point .... if the base is finadable ( I just made up a word there) ;)

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I'd argue the other way around: if your (fancy) HQ is in the middle of nowhere and under siege no one may be in reach to help but you and your people. Attacking it in the middle of a policed major or moderately sized population center would be somewhat harder I like to think. It would be known by location but other than that could have the same security standards.

 

Let people put their bases or HQs, rather, where they want. But we will put it straight in some city. Getting in, I'm not sure. But getting out again with potential goods? Not as easy as potential trespasser or attacker.

 

So while having some installation or say HQ elsewhere may favor secrecy, I'm not sure on the safety assumption.

"Well said. You could keep an official HQ that friends and foes know about and build some generic building that houses all the secret operations. You may even go further and build a conspicuous "secret Headquarter" building somewhere remote/centralises/ lightly/heavily secured while the real one might just be a simple bungalow at plain view with four sub-Terran floors."

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"Well said. You could keep an official HQ that friends and foes know about and build some generic building that houses all the secret operations. You may even go further and build a conspicuous "secret Headquarter" building somewhere remote/centralises/ lightly/heavily secured while the real one might just be a simple bungalow at plain view with four sub-Terran floors."

This is why "tourists" exist. It's not so simple to create a decoy without "tourists" noticing.

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This is why "tourists" exist. It's not so simple to create a decoy without "tourists" noticing.

"There's a way to secure certain places from "tourists". They'll come: I don't doubt that, but if "tourists" keep visiting places they aren't meant to, some illegal "tourism business" is within the ranks of your nation."

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"There's a way to secure certain places from "tourists". They'll come: I don't doubt that, but if "tourists" keep visiting places they aren't meant to, some illegal "tourism business" is within the ranks of your nation."

Aerial photography is an another way of "tourism" :P

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