decom70

I'll be loosing thousands of hours of scanning. I've spent more than most in this game. It needed to happen, while I have a lot I know of others that have damn near entire planets of scan results.  Literally giving me, and others a monopoly on the market. 
 
That all being said, myself and others will go back out and scan 18+ tiles at a time and will be fine.

Thx NQ, really appreciate all the small balance changes you did to the demeter Update.
- HQ Tiles: Great Idea! this helps us keep a lot of the player made content outside of sanc
- Wiping the scan results: Absolutly the right decision!

I need 4 units to remove 100 litres if each unit can remove 50 litres?
I assume I only need 4 if the 100l are then pushed up to 100% or 200l by skill? So then 200l divided by 4x50


 


Can you please give a time, how many hours, days, weeks a player has before the unit has dropped from 100% to 0%?

 

Oh yeah, land rush time. 
 
Taxes are still terribly timed as you are not really adding many new things for people to do and punishing those who are waiting for something more to play other than calibrate machines, run missions, and asteroids (old mining but in space) 

Good move clearing old scans!

Mining units are one of the key features that will be introduced in the upcoming Demeter update. What are they? How do they work? How will they impact the gameplay of Dual Universe? Read on for the answers to those questions and learn more about these handy-dandy little ore vacuums. 
 
HOW DO MINING UNITS WORK?
Let’s start with the basics. 
 
Mining units are new elements that you can deploy on your static constructs on the surface of planets. They need to be linked to an output container and, once started, they will autonomously dispense ore at regular intervals into this container without the need for you to be connected to the game. 
 
There is one mining unit for each tier and they are large elements. Each tier of mining unit is able to mine ores of the same tier. In addition to these five large mining units, there is also a small one for tier 1 only. This special small mining unit is intended for beginners.
 
Let’s have a look at these beautiful beasts in action.
 

A minimalist mining building with an active mining unit and its best friend, the container
 
These mining units work only if the mining ray you see in the screenshot above is not obstructed and can reach the ground. The mining ray has a maximum range of 50m.
 
Once the mining unit is deployed, linked to an output container, and in range of the ground, you can select what ore it will mine and start the machine. Once calibrated (more on that below), It will then mine regularly and deliver a batch of ore in the output container every hour. To further automate the process, the output container can be designated as the entry point of an industry line. (Note: If the container is full; the mining unit will no longer collect ore, so you’ll need to empty the output containers from time to time or have them feed directly into an industry line.)
 
There are two primary considerations when deploying mining units. First, you need to make sure the territory where they are deployed actually holds enough ore underground and the units will need to be calibrated before they will begin collecting ore.

TERRITORY POOLS
Various types and tiers of ore are dispersed with limited availability across Dual Universe. You won’t find them all grouped together in a particular place. 
 
To represent that, each territory in the game can provide up to a certain volume of ore each hour. That’s what we call the ‘ore pool’. A territory scan can show the kinds of ore present on a territory tile and their yield rates in liters per hour.
 

This territory is capable of providing a variety of tier 1 ore
 
The image above illustrates the territory-based maximum rate for each ore on this territory. Since there’s a maximum yield per hour, adding more and more mining units becomes useless past a certain point. Each active mining unit “consumes” a part of these available resources. These territory pools represent mining rates, not a total volume of available ore. For example, if a territory has a pool of 100 l/h of a given ore and each mining unit is capable of extracting 50 l/h, then you need two mining units to maximize your extraction capacity, and any additional mining unit beyond two won't give you more yield.
 
Unlike the previous ‘manual mining’ system, the new ore pools are infinite. You will always be able to mine these ores at this rate for as long as you have a calibrated mining unit running here.
 
These territory ore pools are varied and different. On a planetary basis, this new repartition should match more or less the previous allotment for manual underground mining. There are a few changes, but basically a planet that used to contain some tier 3 ore will still contain some tile-wise though, the issuance is very different between low and high tier ores, even from territory tile to territory tile. Typically, you should find tier 1 ore in abundance on nearly every territory tile in the system, but tier 5 ores are only on a few small spots on the most distant planets.

ACTIVE TERRITORIES
For mining units to work, the territory must be active. That simply means that the territory tax for it must be paid. That’s right, if you want the shiny rocks, you gotta pay your taxes. You can learn more about territory upkeep in an upcoming devlog. 

MINING RIGHTS
If you share your territory tile with your friends or organization, you might want to keep the precious underground ores for yourself or, conversely, allow only specific people the ability to operate mining units on your territories. For this purpose, we’re adding the Mining Unit Right. Without this, mining units belonging to other players are unable to access the ore pool and cannot mine on your territories. 

ADJACENCY BONUS
Mining units are social. They like to be around friends. That’s why if you own several active territories near each other, the mining units working on them get an ‘adjacency bonus’ to yield a greater amount of ore beyond the ore pool in each batch. Note that the territories must be owned by the same entity. If you find a great tile with precious ore under it, it might be worth it to own and maintain a few adjacent territories.

EXTRACTING AND CALIBRATION
As explained above, mining units are fully autonomous, doing their appointed duties regardless of where you are and what you’re doing, including when you’re offline having real-world adventures (which you should be enjoying from time to time). The reality is just a bit more complex as mining units need to be calibrated to work efficiently.
 
Each mining unit has a ‘calibration score’ and slowly loses calibration over time if kept unchecked. When the calibration score is below 100%, the mining unit will produce less ore; at 0%, it won’t produce anything at all. To remedy that, it must be calibrated.
 
To calibrate, you will need to enter a specific interface where you will manually probe the territory in search of underground ore. This is ‘extracting’.
 

Manually extracting ore and calibrating the mining unit
 
In this extracting session, you will use several tools to probe the territory tile, but you will need to keep a look at the probe battery at the same time. The goal is to find the optimal point with the best ore density that you’ll select at the end of the process. Depending on the quality of the location, this will have two effects:
It will increase the calibration score so that the mining unit can continue to do its job. It will also extract a few ore rocks in the process and those will pop to the surface of the tile at the selected location. These may be harvested manually at your convenience; they don’t expire.   
Calibration is not unlimited. Each player generates calibration charges at the rate of one charge every few hours. You can use your charges on the mining units owned by other players or organizations as long as you have the rights needed to access them.
 
Finally, a single mining unit cannot be extracted twice in a row. There’s a 24-hour cooldown period before calibrating it again. The upside is that mining units will not lose calibration for two days after being calibrated.

MINING UNIT TALENTS
Since mining units are a big new thing for Dual Universe, they come with a variety of new talents to complement their use.
 
You will have talents that improve the:
mining unit efficiency, on element deploy base mining rate, on element deploy speed at which your character will regenerate calibration charges  maximum mining charges your character can hold amount of ore extracted when calibrating  
GETTING TO THE CORE OF TERRAFORMING
One change we do want to make you all aware of comes as part of the terraforming changes where previously a number of players had dug down to the center of certain planets or moons. Each planet or moon will now have an impenetrable core at the center that forms about 80% of the planet's radius with a minimum digable depth of 5 km below its “sea” level.
 

 
As such, some constructs may be located below this line after the incoming terrain changes. In these cases, we will raise those constructs up to the relevant planet’s surface. (See this article about preparing for the geometry reset for directions on how to request assistance.) 

A CHANGE OF HEART, THE REMOVAL OF SCAN RESULTS
We received a considerable amount of feedback from players who were opposed to keeping old scan results relevant. And following some internal discussions on the topic, we feel that it is indeed in the best interest of the game to provide a clean slate when it comes to mining data to prevent the hottest of hotspots from being immediately taken. As such, we will be clearing all scan results from the game when Demeter goes live. 
 
We realise that this will inconvenience some of the players who have large amounts of scan data; however, we do believe it is the right thing to do.

DO YOU ‘DIG’ THE MINING CHANGES?
Mining units are a significant departure in how mining is done in Dual Universe. The old underground mining system is gone, replaced by mining units and asteroid mining. We hope that you will appreciate the new feature, from territory management and optimization to the extracting sessions. We really think that the new state of mining in DU is more sustainable and hope you’ll agree. Share your feedback here. 
 

The comments about being screwed whatever they do were in relation to a wipe, not regarding scans. so no, those comments do not have any relevance here. you can't pick and choose what was said out of context to suit your narrative here.
 
It is very clear that things changed in the internal discussion between VLOG1 (which was actually recorded prior to th Ares release) and VLOG2 and you can't connect the two or try and spin some middle ground from that.
 
This change of heart is, for me at least, a first signal that there may be a shift in attitude within NQ as I mentioned earlier, they seems to have actually picked up on  some of the arguments and realized the (potential) problems not removing the scans would have and frankly, by the sheer number of people who apparently started exploiting this loophole, they were clearly right.
 
Yes, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't, but here, because they did, they won points in my book and I hope to see more of this new attitude as I firmly believe that it will be better for the game, and that is exactly what I have always been saying. We're not there yet, but it is a start.
 

Me being a person with over 15k scans . This is the right decision. And i get to do more scanning 

I'd prefer a third option too.
Either, as said, a very low tax rate
Or, Taxes only when a Persons subscription is inactive.
 
Because, in the End, we DO need a way to clear out inactive tiles and player constructs.

Need a 3rd option. Affordable taxes! because we really do need a reasonable way to clear out long time inactive or game abandoned player Zones!

This whole tax thing maybe be the end for me. I pay a subscription to play. Now they want me to work in game to keep what I have. I do that in IRL. I play to have fun. Not to do more work.

I think you should look up the definition of intended.
 
Yes, spot mining single tiles is expensive, because that is not the intended use of autominers. If you want to do that, you are able to, but it is inefficient and comes as at a cost. It's like having the option of using a giant fuel guzzling L core to move a single container around; you can do it, but it isn't advised. You do not need to personally mine an ore to put it in your factory; you can buy the ore from others.
 
You've not explained why the choice to go to PvP asteroids is taken away or forced. The market gives you access to every ore in the game, and efficient use of autominers gives you ample quanta with which to purchase it.

I don't think you understand how autominers are meant to be used, or the math involved. There is simply a ton of inaccurate information in this post. Here is a simplified, but illustrative, example: you claim 7 tiles in a clump on alioth, and fully mine them out with your allotment of autominers (400-500l average per tile on many planets, 7 tiles with 100l/auto miner, is 28-35 autominers, so near the cap of one account). Using the numbers from Gottchar's thread, you would mine ~150kL assorted ore a day, or ~1ML a week, with this setup. At current prices, even if you were only mining T1, this is close to 100M quanta a week, for 7M a week in taxes. This is not "selling all of it for upkeep", it's 7%. You can use the other 93% of pure profit to buy any other ore you desire off the market, or head to an asteroid when you have the time.
 
All of this for a few minutes a day doing the dumb minigame, which you can VR to. This does not require hopping around to every planet to do the minigame, nor does it cost 42M per week.
 
In your complaint about needed to be around all day on Saturday to race to PvE asteroids, you completely glossed over the fact that most PvP asteroids go completely undiscovered and unmined the entire week. These are available for you to mine at literally any time you desire. If you do not want to PvP that is fine, you can join up with a group who do. If you still do not want to take the risk, that is also fine, there is a giant safe zone to still have fun in, but giving up the greater rewards of PvP asteroids is a result of that choice.

Sure, and people fear change. I get that. I'm a fan of the changes, your mileage may vary.
 
As for the people who helped fund the game, I'm paying for my two subscriptions, so I'm helping to fund the game. And so many of my friends paid for theirs, so they helped fund the game. Then they all quit when 0.23 came out because it was an unmitigated disaster.
 
The game has gotten better since then, and continues to do so. They won't be back. So their territories should be freed up for others to use. It's really that simple. As for their constructs, and the contents inside them... NQ hasn't made clear how that part's going to work yet. We shall see.
 

Did you even watch the video? Most of what you said is false.
 
Day one:
First nothing happens. Wallets are created to deposit quanta into for future rent. Players learn how much that rent is going to be, and have plenty of time to react as needed. Nothing is "instantly confiscated".
Day two: 
"next date for due taxes is closing" false.
"property is confiscated" also false.
Day three:
You buy some mining units, and you place your mining units. Congrats. They start generating ore. No reactivation of tiles is necessary, because you haven't gotten anywhere close to that timeframe yet.
Ore prices are predicted to go up, and the market bots haven't been relevant in a long, long time. Probably won't be now, either.
 
 
As for sanctuary, and everywhere else, surface mining is still completely valid. Get surface rocks, use them to make baby mining units, and deploy baby mining units. Profit!
 
Enough with the doom and gloom. 
 
Say YES to Mining Units!
 
Also say YES to Territory taxes, because they're finally going to evict all of the people that quit playing a year ago.
 
 
 
 

@NQ 
Please disclose the figures for the territory taxes so that players can prepare themselves before the update in order to divest or merge territories if necessary.
Please also give figures for the quantities of ore that can be obtained per area as a maximum with skills, e.g. in the period of a week/month, so that one can compare the current consumption and farm quantity.
Furthermore, please inform us when and if there will also be taxes on space constructions. I don't want to spend weeks moving my planetary bases into space if they will soon be punished with a tax there as well.
At least NQ once said that there will also be areas for space. So should we stop building large space bases now?

Thank you for not doing a complete talent reset.

When the Demeter update goes live soon, some talents will be reset to fit the mining overhaul and the introduction of mining units. 
 
The following list of talents will be reset and their points recredited to your available talent pool:
Mining and Inventory Miner Mining Range Advanced Mining Mining Optimizations Scanner Upgrades Detector Upgrades Dredger Mining Efficiency Scanning Efficiency Scanner Advanced Upgrades Detector Efficiency Detector Optimization  
Any of these actively training when the update is released will be taken out of the queue, and the points already invested during training will be seamlessly recredited to your available talent pool.
 
Note that this will not be the case for the PTS, as you can simply refund your talent points there by typing /respec in chat and then reconnecting to the PTS.

Join the conversation here. 
 

You can still perfectly build underground, nothings changed about that. You still own your Territories, you just gotta pay a little rent. You can still Terraform on large scales. You lose Independence? Not really.
Read the change log and watch the Q&A before you type something that has already been answered/disproven.

Thank the beta Gods! I've been waiting for this change since I started playin pre alpha... I'll finally actually recommend this game to friends! No more wasted life role-playing as a mining slave! I've been recommending these exact changes from the beginning, and am so excited to see how this shapes the future of the game... We've needed automated mining the whole time, so we don't have to be so darn attached to our creations, that we can actually start having some fun with them! I've wanted to get into PVP for literally years now, and finally will feel like I can take some chances that won't end up with my toiling back in the damn mines..

PTS server.
/respec 
 
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

It seems from reading the many great posts here that the community is divided on many issues that have both been presented in this looming update and some issues that have persisted from the start of this project. While I can appreciate NQ trying to save money whilst improving game play/smoothness they (NQ) also need to pay attention to what the community that makes up the game is saying about how the current state of the game is and what will happen going forward. The points I see from reading these comments:
 
1. Talent points - complete refund or partial refund = They said its all or nothing on this issue so take a snap shot of your setup so you can easily get back to where your particular set up is too easy.
2. Full wipe now or later at release - The community is really split on this issues I feel from the comments, my perspective as an 8 month or so player don't wipe there are literal works of art that took many hours of game play to build or code that was written. Now the code is saved and they have mentioned that you would get a "magic BP". Don't wipe don't destroy what players spent years building for the actions of a few. 
3. In ground Mining - I have been playing games and MMOs my whole life on and off I am 47, I will like most play what interests me even if there is a grind to it at first or through out hard work or effort with greater or equal payoff. There is no other way to say it we live in an instant gratification society and this too is split with some wanting this and some rolling up their sleeves. I feel players are missing the forest for the trees on this issue, with some very upset that in ground mining is being taken away while others are happy to see auto mining so they can either focus on building/creating or industry etc. I welcome the auto mining for those reasons will there be pain in the markets at first yes. I think over time this will become better. 
4. NQ not listening to the players - I think they (NQ) do listen to an extent but at the end of the day will make choices that benefit the company over what will benefit the majority/minority within the game. Should they listen absolutely they should take all relevant information before making decision in to account. Doing this will have a positive impact on not only the community but the game as a whole. 
 
Speaking from experience knee jerk reactions, puffed up chests, and keyboard warriors do nothing but add fuel to an already blazing fire and cause more harm than good. NQ should listen to the community take it all in and have those comments/suggestions have an impact on what is decided as a path forward. 
 
At the end of the day are you going to make everyone happy no matter which direction you choose to go NO never someone will always have a different opinion about how things should be done.  That being said there are some really wicked smart people in this space and have created literal works of art or a genius piece of code within the game.
 
I remember the last Q&A that NQ did on Oct 4th, Pann said at around the 11:15 mark she said go to the forums, I know people don't like them but that's where your voice will be heard, sorry NQ to use your words against you but if you want players in the game and not the same 5 people (being facetious) then listen to your words and listen to this community and weigh all the options.
 
Do more Q&A videos on these issues and this looming update, allow more time to find those game breaking bugs in the PTS, test test test and then test again before just pushing content to the live server.

In the video you can see that each of your territories has a wallet that the fees will be withdrawn from. If there's no quanta in the account, then it goes through the different stages of non-payment.

So, to answer the other person's question, it does look like you'll be able to prepay some amount of your territory's fees.

Once you stop paying upkeep your industry and mining units stop working. You then have 1-2 months (they are still deciding the time frame) to start paying, or take your stuff off  the territory. If you completely ignore it , it will become unowned and other players can then come claim it (although still sounds like they are working details). 
 
Now with that said, If you spent all that time collecting those elements and voxels, why are you going to carelessly abandon it?  And if you do got to go AFK for a couple months, Just top up your reserves so it does not deplete for a year or two.  Or even better build a space station instead of a Territory so you dont have to pay upkeep. 

A tech telling a bean counter that if they made this change they could be saving X amount of data space saving X amount of money. And this is not a small figure.  
 
But I dont think we players should be thinking of this as a change that saves NQ money.  This is a change that is going to have a noticeable improvement in performance for us. Not only because all that old data wont have to be loaded/unloaded. but because of the way its being restructured. that will allows for easier compression, thus better performance/lower bandwidth. 
 
And that saved performance might come in handy later down the road when territory warfare comes in.