huschhusch

Did you remember this sequence in the August Dev Diary where you couldn't read the CODEX because it was too fast ?
 
Well, now you can !
 
Take your time.
 

 

I feel like a broken record going over these things over and over, so instead, I thought I'd just write up some of the more interesting things I learned at PAX this week. 
 
Now, I certainly am not at liberty to discuss everything I learned from PAX. It's also worth pointing out that many of these things are likely subject to change:
 
Ships have 3rd person view (at least in pre-alpha).  We may see more complex forms of linking elements, aside from Lua/power/fuel (no promises, and not going into details, but fingers crossed regardless) "One Week" means "One Week"   The number of TCU's we get in pre-alpha will probably be limited to 3-4, or thereabouts. Much smaller than the several thousand available to players at PAX. Ship combat will not be automated. If you see a ship with 30 cannons on it, it's likely there are 30 people onboard manning those cannons.  Avatar combat may have some automation in the form of simple base defenses that fire on people who aren't allowed in your territory. The game will be roughly a 10gb download, and those with pre-alpha will likely get a day or so to pre-download it. Flying in the first-person mode is much easier to get used to rather than 3rd person mode.  Celestial bodies like Asteroids cannot be moved, which is to say that attaching several rocket boosters to an asteroid won't just make it start moving. Asteroids will be in pre-alpha The scroll wheel is currently used as a speed throttle in ships, which takes a little bit to get used to. Fingers crossed that this changes, as it's a bit weird. Atmospheric and Space thrusters are two separate items. Just because a ship can fly in the atmosphere doesn't mean it can fly in space.  In the same vein, Atmos and Space fuel are two separate things.  Star probes will not be physical things flying through space, so no tracking them down to destroy them as they fly through space.  A question came up about how far they are along with the skill system, the answer is "almost zero". They're just not at that point in development yet, which is understandable. Digging to the center of a planet should result in players bouncing around like a spring around the absolute core. However, we'll have to test this to see if it actually works.  Of course the closer you dig the center, the harder it will be to reach because of the way that territories stretch all the way to the core.  Planets were not rotating in the PAX Demo, unclear if this will change in pre-alpha on the 30th or if that's planned for Alpha instead. Coming up with crafting recipes is difficult because of the balancing required for them.  Making ships is not going to be easy, people are seriously underestimating just how difficult it's going to be to get into space. Even in creative mode people had a very hard time doing it.  Water is extremely difficult to get right. The water in the pre-alpha is just a placeholder texture for now, and their plans for water sound awesome, it's just not an easy task at all.  
 
I'm sure I'll have more info to add to this thread as I remember it over the course of the day.
 
As for my thoughts on how the pre-alpha played at PAX....
 
Many people who didn't know anything about Dual Universe sat down to play it and were kind of left dumbfounded as to what to do. The open world aspect of it without any tutorial was a bit overwhelming, and people were left clicking random buttons and walking away confused. Those that did understand Dual Universe, however, seemed to have a blast playing around in the world. Despite complaints I've seen to the contrary, I didn't find the UI to be overly complex or confusing. Just looking at screenshots is pretty self-explanatory. It takes a few minutes to get the hang of things, and there are certainly some terms you should be aware of, but it certainly wasn't this monstrously complex thing that warranted the complaints I've seen. On the topic of building ships. Many people sat down expecting to just have their hands held building a ship. It's not easy at all, which I think is a good thing. If it was such a simple process that any random person could do it in 5 minutes, it would be a whole lot less impressive to actually build one that works. I am happy with the way this works out. Not everyone is going to be able to build a space ship. The game played rather fluidly. There were some trivial bugs here and there, but nothing that brought down the server (which is the key point here).  Again, building a ship is not a process that someone can just explain to you in 5 minutes. If you're expecting to just jump into the pre-alpha right away and be flying off the planet in a few minutes the first time, it's not going to happen.   
 
Overall I was very pleased with what I saw at PAX, I think that anyone coming into pre-alpha with leveled expectations (not a complete game) will be very happy with how far they've come. It's going to be a very fun time for all of us. The game has a learning curve, even at this point in creative mode, so if you're expecting something where your hand is held and everything is as simple as WoW or No Man's Sky, you're going to be disappointed. I know others will disagree with me, but I found it just as easy as learning to play Everquest Landmark.
 
 

yeah, IK - that's white.....urgh

hus post up a bit said pre alpha will last until alpha im guessing weekends only tho

In terms of certain things being considered boring such as police jobs:
 
You underestimate that there are whole communities and interest groups out there (more popular or known example: Arma III RPG) that enjoy this with a bit or a lot of RP even. I played cops and, more recently, an EMT myself. Spending a lot of time speeding around in an ambulance while talking in somewhat realistic short radio codes. To project that on security roles as I also played that job in A 3: there is demand.
 
I mean there are already DU police groups, either integrated in player nations or standalone, to cover that stuff in the future. 
 
Just saying, someone might actually take your 911 call in DU in the future. 

English (Translator used)
 
Hello NanoDot,
what I wrote at the beginning is an idea of me how it could go.
A few things but also NQ in the diary-devs told. please refer https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2014/12/04/from-barter-to-market-economy/
 
 
German (orginal)
 
Hallo NanoDot,
das was ich am Anfang geschrieben habe ist eine Idee von mir, wie es gehen könnte.
Ein paar Dinge hat aber auch NQ in den diary-devs erzählt. siehe https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2014/12/04/from-barter-to-market-economy/
 
 
mfG Die Waldfee
 

That's exactly the problem at the moment.
 
Let's say you want to let a room in your hotel to a random player X.
You can define a time-limited RDMS rule, like "Player X can enter this door for a period of 30 days". Once saved, that rule cannot be altered until the 30 days have passed. The game will enforce that part of the "contract". But the payment of the "rent" for the room is not automatically deducted from the player, because that's outside the scope of the current RDMS (as it should be). You cannot "sell" that deal in the market, you have to trust the player to hand over the cash, and they have to trust that you've given them 30 days' access.
 
The ideal solution is a contracts system which uses elements of the RDMS mechanism, but where the contract details are visible to all parties before payment is made. EVE's contract system is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.
 
Such a system would allow you to offer a 30-day rental contract to player X via the contract market, at a price of Q100. As soon as player X "buys" the contract for Q100, the contract rules are enforced by the RDMS system, which would mean the terms of the contract cannot be changed by anyone for the full duration of the contract. You get your money, and player X gets the room for 30 days, no trust required on either side.

DU doesn't have a contracts system AFAIK.
 
Even if there is a contracts system, it's unsuitable for barter, because barter often involves negotiation.
 
I may put up a contract asking for 50 copper as "payment" for my 100 iron offered. But I may be just as willing to accept 2 gold and 20 copper, or 6 silver and 25 tin, etc. A formal contract system doesn't allow the flexibility required for a barter system.
 
Your suggestion that the NQ bots will benefit new players by setting a kind of "minimum wage" is very weak, because that benefit vanishes as soon as NQ withdraw the bots. And in EVE, new players can run missions, they don't have to mine at all.

In real life not a new idea, use energy like money. One cell element = 100 credits for example.  All times all players needs energy for moving, production, etc. They are ready to by or sell energy cell elements any time. If someone wont to by or sell something, they can do a transaction in universal moneys - ENERGY! This money mass not be born from nothing, and has a physical representation in game, like a gold in real life. So we have much more interested game mechanics with money, like a stocking, transporting, etc... Some examples can see in old old single space simulator Parkan.

To get a working game economy some facts a essential:
 
(1) You need many players
(2) Everything must be crafted by players
(3) Items must have a decay when they were used --> broken items must be repaired, recycled or bought from the market again.
(4) Economy needs Scissors-Paper-Rock or even better Scissors-Paper-Rock-Lizard-Spock principle.
 
 

Well I do hope that I get to implement bunch of stuff. Day job is programming so might not be as fun to deal with it when you get home but have bunch of things I would like to implement

I like the blue, yellow and red ghosts that were shown in the August dev diary.  It will be very helpful to know if there will be some voxel distortion or the intended operation is not permitted, but I was wondering if there will be an alternate indicator for someone who is colorblind and not able to distinguish them.

Hallo gibnieauf500,
 
Pre-Alpha ab 30.9. wenn du bis zum 7.9. Founder Rang Gold oder höher backest.
Aber man kann wohl ab der Alpha auch noch in Alpha 2 oder so einsteigen. Aber ab 7.9. gibt es keinen Livetime Pass mehr.
 
mfG Die Waldfee
 
PS. Willkommen im Forum

Money money money.  This is a new  age,  A new planet, a whole new start for humanity…   Forget money. I plan on dealing exclusively an orphan tears   

"2. Bots will control the money supply and print money only when needed, and that means the inflation will be low (NQ has control over it anyway, so they can do what they want)"
 
Okay that means NQ try to get a low inflation. thats the goal yes? the goal is good but its sounds like NQ have to interact with manuel regulators and not automatical.
 
i hope there are equations for finance nerds to see through, because i am one of them.
 
 

Oh I'm not at all worried about someone trying to raid my place. I'm a very creative person after all when it comes to base defenses. Sure I'll likely get raided a couple times. But then I'll just analyze the break in points, check for the weak points. And then proceed to modify to make repeat attempts hell and not worth it. I'm not coming into this thinking its Space Engineers the MMO. I've got a few years of EVE under my belt as alliance fleet commander and I don't shy away from PVP either. When I build. I build for looks and security.  With traps hidden from all angles of view. 

Think of me as that crazy hermit out in the woods. You'd want my help with things, but would be afraid to come find me after rumors of missing people started popping up from the area around where I'm said to live.

Of course all this all is dependant on the mechanics we have to work with in terms of base and defense construction. But again. I'm creative and learn to adapt ^.^

English (Translator used)
 
Hello Rafiki,
I think BOO gives me all their Qunatas.

For where other projectiles see, I see as a banker usable material and material is equal to Quantas.
 
 
German (orginal)
 
Hallo Rafiki,
ich denke BOO schenkt mir alle ihre Qunatas.
Denn wo andere Geschosse sehen, sehe ich als Banker verwertbares Material und Material ist gleich Quantas.
 
 
mfG Die Waldfee
 

I've visited the GC booth and had the chance to talk to the staff in person. It's an awesome team and otherwise than some other game developers (i won't mention any names, so please don't interpret something in that phrase) they work with passion instead just for money. I can safely say that they are not going to rush anything and will listen to the community in any case. 

English (Translator used)
 
Hello NQ,
I think it is great that you take the player community into the tests (many eyes see more). Even if it is a pity we have to wait another 3 weeks.

The one or the other tip from the player community will advance the development and lead to a more stable game. This is best if you work with the software and do not just think about theoretical considerations. I think everything will be fine.
 
 
German (orginal)
 
Hallo NQ,
ich finde es toll, das Ihr die Spielergemeinschaft mit in die Tests aufnehmt (viele Augen sehen mehr). Auch wenn es schade ist das wir noch weitere 3 Wochen warten müssen.
 
Der ein oder andere Tip aus der Spielergemeinschaft wird die Entwicklung vorrantreiben und so zu einem stabieleren Spiel führen. Das geht am besten wenn man mit der Software arbeitet und nicht nur darüber theoretissche Betrachtungen anstellt. Ich denke so wird alles Gut.
 
 
mfG Die Waldfee
 

English (Translator used)
 
Hello Elildar,
We all want to find a few surprises in the ALPHA, right?
You do not have to plan everything before the start of the game.
 
 
German (orginal)
 
Hallo Elildar,
ein paar Überraschungen wollen wir doch alle in der ALPHA finden, oder ?
Man muß nicht alles vor Spielbeginn Planen.
 
 
mfG Die Waldfee
 

English (Translator used)
 
Hello CyberCrunch,
With the language school as an organization I find a good idea, since you can register and make an appointment.

Language schoolchildren in "Sammelbecken" is also an interesting idea to get practice in German.
A marking of the pupils would be for me however obligation to generate no frustration with the other members.

In the German forum "Koalition" (link at Sammelbecken) one can already practice.
 
 
German (orginal)
 
Hallo CyberCrunch,
das mit der Sprachschule als Organisation finde ich eine gute Idee, da kann man sich anmelden und verabreden.
 
Sprachschüler in "Sammelbecken" ist auch eine interessante Idee, um Praxis in deutsch zu bekommen.
Eine Kennzeichnung der Schüler wäre für mich aber Pflicht um keinen Frust bei den anderen Mitgliedern zu erzeugen.
 
Im deutschen Forum "Koalition" (Link bei Sammelbecken) kann man ja schon mal üben.
 

mfG Die Waldfee

Thanks for all the feedback.
I posted this topic to discuss my thoughts on how improving real world language skills could work in DU. So I should probably clarify that these 3 possibilities I mentioned are actually very different approaches to learn a language:

1) This is more like visiting a foreign country: you just try to integrate yourself in the daily life and participate in normal activities with other people without any direct lessons. (works only if you are already able to speak the foreign language quite fluently)

2) Just 1 on 1 language exchange. This approach would depend on the participating people: you could do exercises to learn the basics, but also do normal everyday conversations to practice speaking fluently.

3) For this suggestion the goal is to create a sort of language school system where you would organize lessons to learn with multiple people together.
 
These are just the possibilities I that came to my mind. We could easily organize these things “on demand”, based on how many people want to learn a certain language. If there are only 2-3 people, we could just add each other on hellotalk and do a 1 on 1 exchange. If we get 10 people together we could form a class… and so on.
To get this started: I am fluent in Italian, German, and English (and already have basic knowledge of Spanish, and Chinese (I also did Latin in school = huge waste of time -.-)
I’d like to learn Spanish, Chinese, (and i currently have growing interest in French)
 
@huschhusch Of course most orgs are focused on actually playing DU, but here’s an example situation: a fellow student of mine from Peru is currently learning German. Would you (hypothetically) welcome him to your "Sammelbecken", even if he would need to ask for a word every now and then?
I just hope there will be a more open atmosphere towards other players in the game. In the end we will all walk around on the same planet.

@Fitorion I think it would be quite useful to implement a google-translate function into the chat, but I'm against the use of sample phrases as this only limits the conversation.
In the end English should always stay the lingua franca which everyone should understand without the need for translators. (I mean it’s even a mandatory subject in schools of every major country)
 

English (Translator used)
 
Hello Lethys,
Nice that you invite us all into the "Alpha Team Vanguard" group, does it know NQ-Nyzaltar already?
 
 
German (orginal)
 
Hallo Lethys,
nett das Du uns alle in die "Alpha Team Vanguard" Gruppe einlädst, weiß es NQ-Nyzaltar schon ?
 
 
mfG Die Waldfee
 

I guess this is just where you and I disagree. I think giving offline players some magic immunity will open the door to huge abuses with stowaway issues, log in traps, or just plain trolling. I would say it needs to be a combination of protected offline players for the correct reasons(in their own base or in neutral areas on a planet), and protect online players for the correct reasons or not give offline players some massive level of protection. I feel like this is more important in DU because you will always be able to lose valuables when you are offline. Constructs and bases will be able to be attacked when you are offline and that has far more value then a players body.

English (Translator used)
 
Hello Elildar,
That is a perfect solution!
 
 
German (orginal)
 
Hallo Elildar,
dass ist eine perfekte Lösung!
 
 
mfG Die Waldfee