le_souriceau

'Your Way' is actually not any different that what I said.  
1.  Tell people now (short term plan, remember?) that there will be a wipe when the game goes live.  (Apologies and other politicking is a given)
2.  Establish that this is a Beta and permanence/balance is not guaranteed.  (Hence why I said 'announce possibility' of partial wipes during beta, which means as needed to facilitate development, it was all about changing expectations not arbitrary wipes.)
 
They were both about reestablishing with players the fact that this game is a Beta and very much subject to change.  Because it needs to be clear that people are Beta testers, not children given a golden ticket to become billionaires before the rest of the population joins in.  
 
Also, the Beta soft release WAS solely a way to force subscription money.  People would be naïve to think otherwise.  Because from a development perspective it was a horrible choice serving to create a player base of beta testers that feel entitled to be treated like live customers with character/world permanence.  It also created financial risk to engaging in normal iterative game development, which will just kill innovation and slow progress to a halt. It was all about milking the Beta-tolerant players of money. The subscription absolutely shouldn't exist during beta but I don't see them changing that. 
 
Note:  The fault doesn't just lie on the players, the Devs are complicit in creating and enabling that entitlement (and their blatant cash grab).  But frankly, how we got here is far less important than how to fix it.  
 
Note 2:  As to the 'existing player base', keeping them happy at the expense of future customers is foolish.  They aren't even a fraction of the players required to keep the lights on. 

Welcome to reality, where whole NQ industry/resource disign is unsustainable bonkers.
 
For additional pleasure I recommend rewatch JC video where he had delirium tremens about specialization and screw factories (iphone production at backyard). Aged well, like good wine.
 
 

Welcome to reality, where whole NQ industry/resource disign is unsustainable bonkers.
 
For additional pleasure I recommend rewatch JC video where he had delirium tremens about specialization and screw factories (iphone production at backyard). Aged well, like good wine.
 
 

Another thread about "what about my stuff?" on a game that is about to go! 

Of course, I was just saying what I heard from a friend.... ?  I have never used or attempted to load 18.56kT of pure Iron and 4.2kT of refined Copper from Alioth out of the atmosphere using a single L rocket booster and tank strapped to a bunch of containers on an M core with only 2L atmo and a single L space engine...
 
And of course, I would never then deploy the warp drive that also happened to be in the container -using build- to allow my (friend's) construct to stop without bothering about shite like space brakes trying to stop over 20kT by warping the final 5 SU to Madis (for example)...
 
My friend is a complete douchebag.... 

Deckard somewhat not said full truth in this statement, also. Because Elias issue was obviously super prioritized, up to involving not only GM, but actual developers.

Not something "per usual" ticket can expect in several hours from support that always "overhelmed".

I keep hearing it again and again.
 
But, realistlicy, while this tech (or more correctly: NQ solutions bases on existing/known things) sounded rather cool back then 6-7 years ago, by now others can (if really want) reproduce similiar or, likely, more competent variants of it. DU tech, while bragged about a lot, very clumsy in practical implementation, with horrible optimisation, barely working PvP netcode and myriad of other shennegians -- likely with some inherent and deep flaws. Generaly, NQ wasted years of stuggle to make it somewhat work, to extent, that they left no time for actual development of gameplay.
 
So, I highly doubt, that whole this package at this point (and with already strained reputation) cost anything big. Sure, someone can use it as reference point, scavenging material for own research, but thats it. Not astronomical sums in question.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Yep, greatly pains me to this day. Overall, as I concluded for my self over research and latest news -- in terms of WHY this was like this...
 
I think despite all blablabla of super innovation, they kinda botched techical part of development very early on, to catasprophic levels of things not working for years, until practicaly 1st month of so called Beta start (something they indeed never admited "transperantly"). So, development of actual gameplay (things about we "feedbacked" in agony) suprisignly never was priority. They just wasted everyone's time and passion, doing some mocking pretending of listeing feedback (15 k posts in "ideas") -- and in practice just throwing together some hastly, low effort mix of (bad) parroting of Eve and (JC?) "civilization-building" fantasies in very little time they left from tech stugges.
 
While I maybe missing nuances (because again -- zero transperancy) but strongly believe this is DU general story until this day. With crowning achievment of 0.23.

We typed our fingers to bones about this in endless "feedback" with alpha guys. Was ignored by NQ (if we exlclude mockery of "wrecks").
 
I honestly tempted to go to something that can be percieved as "devs bashing", but generaly current reality we play...  tells better story for everyone to judge themeselves without me going rage mode.

Yes I thinking about this too -- like mr. Granatino will soon find out, that mr. Baillie... told him not all truth about actual state of affairs. 
 
Seen it IRL, once in place I worked. Like new leadership instantly gone from mild patronizing optimism (right after aqusition), to rabid WTF mode (when figured out they were tricked), kicking everyones butts and closing place in 2 months.

BTW: a little more info how the guy got that ship.
 
He VRed there... He didn't fly there on his own construct, there is a public VR on that station. Therefore it completely eliminates any construct manipulations he just VRed there and was running around.
 

You expect wrong. NQ tried to recover code for Elias in first hours (4-5 h from accident) by their admin technical means. But failed to do so (getting only usless corrupted version -- because some unuasal symbols in code). Actual, only working version was returned by pirates.
 
Anyway, while I was initialy fully on Elias side in this accident emotionaly, took it to heart and tried to help (even thinking about some crowdfunding for ransom and other shennegians), but it seems level of cover NQ (and all sidekicks) ready to provide in "special cases" beyond all expectations and makes all such worries irrelevant, even hilarious retrospectivly. Muck, they even worked on week end for this.
 
This "vanishing" of constuct is disturbing. If they dare to ban someone of pirates after this, I will not take it easy.
 
 

You expect wrong. NQ tried to recover code for Elias in first hours (4-5 h from accident) by their admin technical means. But failed to do so (getting only usless corrupted version -- because some unuasal symbols in code). Actual, only working version was returned by pirates.
 
Anyway, while I was initialy fully on Elias side in this accident emotionaly, took it to heart and tried to help (even thinking about some crowdfunding for ransom and other shennegians), but it seems level of cover NQ (and all sidekicks) ready to provide in "special cases" beyond all expectations and makes all such worries irrelevant, even hilarious retrospectivly. Muck, they even worked on week end for this.
 
This "vanishing" of constuct is disturbing. If they dare to ban someone of pirates after this, I will not take it easy.
 
 

"The right approach to set such a price would be to evaluate how much time it takes to recoup your investment by selling the products that the schematics allow to produce. It should be a few months so that the investment is a real commitment and it makes sense to plan for it."
 
Yea, no.  Grind for money to buy a schematic then use that schematic for MONTHS to break even?  Nope.  Not my idea of fun.  I want to build and craft and enjoy all the systems implemented in the game. 
 
Further, schematics do not protect the economy they just delay the inevitable.  They are only an initial cost, not an incremental expense which means the market will eventually be flooded with people owning them as a subset of players grind their way to wealth.  The reality is, no video game is going to have an actual functioning economy.  Partly because it is too complex and requires numerous motivators only the real world provides for most people, but mostly because functioning economies SUCK.  Why?  Because for every industrial giant like Rockefeller, you have 100,000 low-level peons swinging a pickaxe.  People expect to be special in video games.  The CEO, not the janitor.  You cannot have an economy filled with CEOs, but you cannot have an enjoyable game when most people are stuck playing janitors (or in this case, miners).  This game is doomed to a VERY niche audience.
 
(If you really want to keep parts from flooding the market you would be better off with a licensing system which incurs a reoccurring cost.  Still not what I want in a game, however.)

So why did people pay for beta, do they get their money back?

The rest of them will be go mine X and deliver it to me.  The mission system won't keep people from having to mine.  It will be a lot of big guys trying to convince the small guys that mining for them at a loss is in the way to go.

Bounties might be nice when ava comes, until the average player realizes that he will spend more in ship parts, ammo, fuel and time than the bounty is worth. 

Until they fix the grind of mining and the costs of basic industry, I think this game has about had it.

Considering the recent event with Elias Villd and the discussion in discord, NQ could you please clarify where exploiting starts? Could you please reply in details on each of the issues listed below?
Could you please clearly clarify what is allowed from specified activity and what is not?
 
Thank you a lot!
 
 
All described issues below don't use any additional tools (like maneuver tool or any other tool) or constructs. All of them involve only player movement in atmo and/or space with only standard game physics involved.
 
 
1) Is it allowed for someone to jump on a ship (Dynamic Construct) while ship has no its pilot nearby? Is it considered exploit or not?
 
Let's assume pilot of the ship logged out while moving or not being docked to some static construct. This resulted in speed "stored" in the ship. So, when someone will jump on such ship he will restore (with curent game mechanics) the ship's speed instantly.
 
2) Is such action - restoring the ship's speed after jumping on the ship - allowed? Is it considered exploit or not?
 
Let's assume after restoring the speed ship is moving towards nearest planet. So, if someone will continue to stay on the ship the ship will eventually fall into the planet and explode.
 
3.1) Is such action - staying on the ship while it is falling on the planet - allowed? Is it considered exploit or not?
 
Let's assume after restoring the speed ship is moving in some random direction that finally ends in PvP zone. So, if someone will continue to stay on the ship the ship will eventually be moved BY ITSELF into PvP zone.
 
3.2) Is such action - staying on the ship while it is travelling without the pilot towards PvP zone - allowed? Is it considered exploit or not?
 
 
In all above issues ship is moving by itself, only general game physics is involved. Not a single tool/exploiting technic is used.
 
 
Could you please clarify about spying issues. No any exploit is involved, only standard game physics:
 
4) Is it allowed to jump to the ship and go to log off? So it will be possible to be a spy on the ship. Is having spy on the enemy ship allowed or not? Is it considered exploit or not?
 
4.1) If after log in into the game the spy finds itself on the ship in space and that ship is moving by itself into PvP zone without pilot - is it allowed to be on such ship? Is it allowed to wait in such case while the ship will reach PvP zone?
 
4.2) The same as above, but ship is falling on the planet. Is it allowed or not to continue to stay on the ship?
 
 
What about if spy will bring with him some additional weight in inventory that will pull down the flying ship or will not allow the ship to lift off?
 
 
 
5) Is it allowed to jump to the someone's ship with some weight in the inventory? Is it exploit or not?
 
5.1) The same as 5) but do log out after jumping on the ship. So, ship could have additional weight. Is this allowed or not? Is it considered exploit or not?
 
 
6) During normal fly in atmo: can pilot of one ship disturb the flight of another ship? I mean can one ship be controlled in such a way that it will end in collision with another ship? Is it considered exploit or not? I am speaking about flying in atmo/safe zone here.
 
 
7) There is some bug in game while parenting bigger dynamic core to the smaller one. The resulted couple could gain some free speed in some situations. Is it allowed to use this parenting issue for cheaper transportation of your own constructs?
 
7.1) If someone jumps on such couple of dynamic constructs in space (the case when such couple of constructs doesn't below to the jumper), and it will result in this couple moving towards PvP zone - is it allowed action or not? Can player continue to sit on the construction or should it jump out from it immediately? Is it considered exploit or not? 
 
 
Some normal PvP related issues:
 
 
While normal PvP session with guns and pew pew - if pilot of one ship will log out his ship will lose it's speed resulting in brake from 30k kmh (or any other value) to 0 kmh instantly. When pilot will log in, the ship will restore its speed - 5%. Is it allowed to use such mechanic to interfere PvP atacker pursuit of the target? Is it considered exploit or not?
 
8.1) Is it considered exploit or not to stop killed ship (the one which has gray marker) with maneuver tool even if the attacked ship has "stored" speed?
 
9) Finally, could you please clarify what is "Parenting Ships" from your article here: https://support.dualthegame.com/hc/en-us/articles/360016890940-Clarification-Regarding-Bug-Exploits-and-Griefing 
By parenting, is it considered parenting between constructs only OR between construct and player (Can player be parented to construct?) is also considered parenting? Is construct transferring to PvP zone with one of the methods described above considered "Parenting" and is also forbidden? Is it, finally, exploit or not?
 
Last issues I would like to clarify:
 
10) What is official position about burying other people dynamic constructs on unclaimed tiles?  Is it acceptable action or is it also exploit?
 
10.1) And if the tile is claimed by me, can I bury (cover with earth) alien ship? Is it acceptable action or exploit?
 
10.2) Let's assume I found some ship staying on unclaimed territory. If I will claim the territory and bury the ship immediately after claiming the tile - is it acceptable action or is it exploit?
 
I will be very thankful for clearly answers on all of these 1) - 9) issues, just to clarify the rules of the game and of what is allowed and what is not.

You twisting here. He said in development, not in public. 
 
It was in development 6-7 years. JC himself: "So, I got a first prototype working back in 2014, and Novaquark was born soon after." In older interview he even says about prototype in 2013. I remember when they pitched in KS, they said game in development for 2 years or so too.
 
In terms of public access they planned it much faster (but NQ failed do so), here from 2016 article: "An alpha version demonstrating the unique single hard cluster (CSSC) and planetary engine with a preliminary set of gameplay features is planned to become available at the beginning of 2017."
 
So, factual base generaly proves point of many people here about development timeline.
 
 

Some clarification regarding the script:
We first thought it was some "for profit" project, like that autopilot that is being sold for 10mil a pop and we thought we got a source of it. Pirates know about Rum and yarrrr not that much about AR.
 
I have talked to Ellas and it seems this is an "open source" and free project that is going to be released to the community so it's "for the greater good" of everyone.
 
We have a rule in Anarchy that everyone decides on his own what to do with the loot he got.
After communicating this information(that script is free for all when finished) to my Anarchy folks we decided to give the script back to the owner.
 
Due to the script being kinda unique (it contains some special characters or something so you can't just copy/paste it) we are currently figuring out how we can give it back.
 

Usualy its same scenario here, some "instantly super-friendly" mucker appears, eager to talk and help (usualy quite superficial, low effort way, pretending be noob or stupid, to not waste too much energy) and joins some obsure micro org with naive leadership. Dudes in such low tier orgs are always so starved on rectuits, that accept anyone and kiss him in ass all the way (giving all rights to show how they love him), asking zero of questions to themeselves why guy even here, what is his agenda...
 
Almost same story everytime.
 
I personaly not fan of eve-style shit in games (too softhearted myself to see such drama and horrors), but... honestly its often punishment (if cruel) for lack of social skills from victims. Most of scammers are not super smart/talented people (some are plain stupid) and giving endless signals for attentive observer about their crap.
 
 
 

A couple more of those 'pointless' suggestions ignored by NQ, and you will also become 'toxic' in no time..

Just compactify the ship to a magic blueprint...  then limit respawning the ship to the tile where it was compactified. System is basically already in place.
Almost zero dev time and not even any time needed to design a stand and mechanism that dispenses the correct blueprint to the correct owner after pressing a button.
 
Once the game goes live, replace it with a player focussed salvage mechanic... where core ownership counts down and becomes unowned after a set time.
 
Hell, we need all the gameplay we can get, currently and that seems fairly organic to me..

-- edit: I said I wouldn't, but I just realised I made another pointless suggestion that will be ignored anyway. shrug.

IRL you have to collect something that is impounded and pay a fee, it's not magically transported back to your garage or something like that. And that's the idea here also.
Ie. there will be a stand at the same market where the constructs was impounded, and this will be the only place you can get the blueprint back (fee or not). And.. this magic blueprint would have some mechanics to prevent exploits. For example the blueprint would be the same weight as the construct, and/or have a very limited range (similar to the the container link range functionality) outside the impound retrieval pod where it can be deployed.
 
Anyways, the point is that the mechanics for this are already largely there in the game with blueprints, market pods, weight restrictions and container link range. So the dev time would be orders of magnitude less then for example a completely new hangar docking feature. And it solves more then one problem, since the same mechanics could be used for setting parking rights and dealing with construct greifing on player tiles, space stations etc.

It was totaly BS excuse from begining, considering they bragged on KS: Our team is an experienced team of industry veterans from Sony, Apple, Ubisoft and several other French game companies. 
 
So, as we say here in my country: either take off your cross or put on underwear.

It was totaly BS excuse from begining, considering they bragged on KS: Our team is an experienced team of industry veterans from Sony, Apple, Ubisoft and several other French game companies. 
 
So, as we say here in my country: either take off your cross or put on underwear.