Penwith

No, it's bitching as a result of limited thinking by players.
 
How you cannot make money other than 1the daily reward is beyond me.
 
You can
 
1) sell ores to bots (not ideal, but you can make millions in a short amount of time)
2) If you have a space-capable ship, run to other plants/moons in the safe zone for players who want the higher tier schematics, but don't want to run to those places themselves. I've paid out over a million to people to do this very thing, on top of paying for the schematics and I've only bought about two dozen through others, buying another three dozen schematics myself.
3) produce honeycombs that people want, but don't want to do the industry for. I've seen several people ask for certain t1 and t2 honeycombs, asking if any was for sale.
4) Produce atmospheric fuel and sell it for a profit. You can find a market that has too high a price and sell it for slightly less.
5) make quality ships and sell the BPs. You don't need to have all of the schematics for all of the tiers of elements, just make some nice looking ships that have some functionality or purpose behind them. You can even make ships that are interesting and people may buy them. Once you've made a ship, Core BP it and then take it apart and reuse the elements for your next ship construction. If your voxelmancy skills are low, watch some videos on it and practice. Don't expect people to throw money at you just because.
 
 
 
This is not brain surgery, you can and should be figuring this out, not having it handed to you on a silver platter. This applies to everyone.
 
I've not been hurt at all since the patch, in fact I'd say it has helped me narrow my focus to concentrate on what I REALLY want to do, instead of moving from one thing to another because I can.
 
I've never had more than 9 million at once, and usually it is well under 1 million, but that is because I claimed a number of hexes, not because I bought things from the market.  I could sell what I am using and make an easy 30-40 million, right now, but money is not my object, it is only one stepping stone on the path to my goals in the game.
 
 
 
 
 
 

No, it's bitching as a result of limited thinking by players.
 
How you cannot make money other than 1the daily reward is beyond me.
 
You can
 
1) sell ores to bots (not ideal, but you can make millions in a short amount of time)
2) If you have a space-capable ship, run to other plants/moons in the safe zone for players who want the higher tier schematics, but don't want to run to those places themselves. I've paid out over a million to people to do this very thing, on top of paying for the schematics and I've only bought about two dozen through others, buying another three dozen schematics myself.
3) produce honeycombs that people want, but don't want to do the industry for. I've seen several people ask for certain t1 and t2 honeycombs, asking if any was for sale.
4) Produce atmospheric fuel and sell it for a profit. You can find a market that has too high a price and sell it for slightly less.
5) make quality ships and sell the BPs. You don't need to have all of the schematics for all of the tiers of elements, just make some nice looking ships that have some functionality or purpose behind them. You can even make ships that are interesting and people may buy them. Once you've made a ship, Core BP it and then take it apart and reuse the elements for your next ship construction. If your voxelmancy skills are low, watch some videos on it and practice. Don't expect people to throw money at you just because.
 
 
 
This is not brain surgery, you can and should be figuring this out, not having it handed to you on a silver platter. This applies to everyone.
 
I've not been hurt at all since the patch, in fact I'd say it has helped me narrow my focus to concentrate on what I REALLY want to do, instead of moving from one thing to another because I can.
 
I've never had more than 9 million at once, and usually it is well under 1 million, but that is because I claimed a number of hexes, not because I bought things from the market.  I could sell what I am using and make an easy 30-40 million, right now, but money is not my object, it is only one stepping stone on the path to my goals in the game.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Again,
 
 
After two hours, automatically dump the ship's cargo, if any, in to the market container nearby. Turn the ship into a special token and also put that into the market container.
 
The special token can only be used in the same hex as the market container it was pulled from and only one such token can be used every 24 hours.
 
This not only gets rid of the mess, but also prevents players from exploiting tokenized ships with cargo. It's all still gotta be hauled away and players cannot simply log on every 2.1 hours to replace their crap, in the way of people actually playing the game.
 
It is not so restrictive that players who have a RL situation and have to log out unexpectedly are penalized as it has no cost to them at all.
 
If they know they are going to have to leave, they can leave the market and go back to their base.
 
 

Actually, if/when I make an investment in something, I do not spend money that I cannot afford to lose or to lose my shit over should it go bust.
 
I've done many Kickstarters, someone of which I canceled after I did more research, but that is only due diligence on my part.
 
It's just the way I happen to look at life and how I spend money outside of necessities.

Been there!
 
I went through at least two large ships and an elevator at and near Market 17 on Alioth, but because of lag, I did not crash or take damage.
 
So the moral is, that the lag can giveth and the lag can taketh away.

Been there!
 
I went through at least two large ships and an elevator at and near Market 17 on Alioth, but because of lag, I did not crash or take damage.
 
So the moral is, that the lag can giveth and the lag can taketh away.

Do you have shadows off? Crashes are occurring at log in, in many cases, due to shadows being off. Setting dynamic and environmental shadows to low seems to fix this for many/most.
 
What other programs are running that might cause the admit to think you are cheating? Thus are blocked. Could be that you were still registered as being in game and thus the admin block and not another program.
 
The ship you are flying, does it have lots of little elements or fewer, larger ones? Masses of XS or S elements cause lag, for many, if not everyone.
 
What height are you flying? I generally fly no lower than 3000m anywhere, except when landing, and often will go above 4000m to avoid elevators and/or lag.
 
I am seeing objects draw on my screen at about 6.5km distance, not terrain, but actual player-constructed objects. At what distance are you seeing drawn elements when not suffering from lag?
 
Some higher end systems are dealing with worse lag than some systems that barely meet the minimum recommended. Optimizations for this is in the future, not the present.
 
My personal record for login crashes was 8 in a row. Now fixed when I changed the shadows setting. I will often slideshow when approaching Market 17 on Alioth, but now nearly any market because the toxic/salty/former players decided they'd park their crap in the way at markets, to screw those of us playing. I also switched to fewer and larger elements for my ship, which really helped with some lag I was having in open country, away from markets or lots of player constructs.
 
 
 

I've ran into this, also, when coping from one construct I own, and trying to paste into another construct I own.

ffs. They provide evidence they listened and have announced a response to player feedback.  The market is unreliable because of what was explained.  Small groups or soloists not interacting. Give it little time for people to catch up. Right now, many are running around moaning about not being able to play.

The only thing standing in the way of achieving what you want is...you and the self-inflicted limitations. Granted, the process is slower, but you can still do it. Why can't you build a ship solo? Sure you can, just not as quickly or cheaply as you might be used to. MMOs are grindy by nature, everything before this was bonus, now it is getting down to business.
 
I have zero "major organizations" telling me anything. I'd likely not listen if they did.
 
Give it some time for adjustments to be made and a bit of tweaking that is expected and very necessary. 

ffs. They provide evidence they listened and have announced a response to player feedback.  The market is unreliable because of what was explained.  Small groups or soloists not interacting. Give it little time for people to catch up. Right now, many are running around moaning about not being able to play.

The sky is falling, the sky is falling everyone!

ffs. They provide evidence they listened and have announced a response to player feedback.  The market is unreliable because of what was explained.  Small groups or soloists not interacting. Give it little time for people to catch up. Right now, many are running around moaning about not being able to play.

ffs. They provide evidence they listened and have announced a response to player feedback.  The market is unreliable because of what was explained.  Small groups or soloists not interacting. Give it little time for people to catch up. Right now, many are running around moaning about not being able to play.

ffs. They provide evidence they listened and have announced a response to player feedback.  The market is unreliable because of what was explained.  Small groups or soloists not interacting. Give it little time for people to catch up. Right now, many are running around moaning about not being able to play.

ffs. They provide evidence they listened and have announced a response to player feedback.  The market is unreliable because of what was explained.  Small groups or soloists not interacting. Give it little time for people to catch up. Right now, many are running around moaning about not being able to play.

Do you have shadows off? Crashes are occurring at log in, in many cases, due to shadows being off. Setting dynamic and environmental shadows to low seems to fix this for many/most.
 
What other programs are running that might cause the admit to think you are cheating? Thus are blocked. Could be that you were still registered as being in game and thus the admin block and not another program.
 
The ship you are flying, does it have lots of little elements or fewer, larger ones? Masses of XS or S elements cause lag, for many, if not everyone.
 
What height are you flying? I generally fly no lower than 3000m anywhere, except when landing, and often will go above 4000m to avoid elevators and/or lag.
 
I am seeing objects draw on my screen at about 6.5km distance, not terrain, but actual player-constructed objects. At what distance are you seeing drawn elements when not suffering from lag?
 
Some higher end systems are dealing with worse lag than some systems that barely meet the minimum recommended. Optimizations for this is in the future, not the present.
 
My personal record for login crashes was 8 in a row. Now fixed when I changed the shadows setting. I will often slideshow when approaching Market 17 on Alioth, but now nearly any market because the toxic/salty/former players decided they'd park their crap in the way at markets, to screw those of us playing. I also switched to fewer and larger elements for my ship, which really helped with some lag I was having in open country, away from markets or lots of player constructs.
 
 
 

Blazemonger and I disagree here, a lot, but he is also very passionate about wanting this game to succeed and to be great. I happen to agree with his stance in this instance (a shocker, I know).
 
Help us to help you.
 
Unless you really do not want help and just want to rant.
 
 

I play solo, almost 100%, and I am still playing, still building, still traveling to other planets. Unplayable, this is not.

As I continue to ponder and consider the long-term ramifications of the patch, and how it directly affects game play for beginning players (which I will state as lasting as long as a month, depending on the frequency and extent of their play sessions), it would likely be a very good idea to have a few different options for schematics, which would be in addition to the post-.23 mechanics.
 
These, of course, would be limited to t1, maybe t2, but I think there's something to be said for making them available.
 
1) Single-Use schematics. These would help new players, but also a little more established players who are still finding their feet in the game and who have not yet fully committed to a career as an industrialist. The schematics for these would cost about 10% of the cost for a full schematic, and not benefit from any of the industry/crafting talents the player might possess. With this, people would have an option do work with the industry side of things before making their long-term play-style decisions.
 
2) Package deals. These should be limited to a one-time purchase only, but for each. I suggest 3 different themed packaged deals, centering around taking the starter speeder to a space-capable flyer, ground facility construction, and storage (S-sized containers). With these, beginning players would have the opportunity to "test the waters" on how industry works, beyond the very brief tutorials, and immediately improve their circumstances as a new player. More established players could use them, in the short-term, to ever so slightly buff their current production capabilities following the trauma of the patch's power-down switch.
 
3) Game events that give all players the chance to discover a small cache of schematics or purchase rare schematics that are one-use. I can see a a lucky event participant coming across a rare t5 weapon schematic, trying to decide whether to sell it for an easy 200million or holding on to it for when creating a pvp purposed ship.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

With any such large change, the markets are going to be a mess for a few weeks, until things settle down.  Were it my concern, I'd just do what I want to do, like build my base, for a couple of weeks and see how things sort out. It is possible, as far as that goes, that NQ will tweak things or react to player responses and needs in a positive fashion. While people claim this should have happened in Alpha, well , it has happened now and better now than shortly after release or even a year after.
 
The developers are not idiots, no matter what the naysayers might claim. They are ultimately in this to make money, but do so with a design philosophy and an idea that they hope will bear fruit and profitability. Thus, I do expect that we'll see some changes and tweaks, here and there, between next week and the next couple of update patches, that will help resolve some, if not many of the concerns that are being expressed.
 
Not that I expect them to respond positively to demands from the disgruntled, but rather to look at player trends, gauge the player experience and determine where the target experience falls short.
 
Hopefully, you do not choose to pull the plug, but it is all up to you.
 
 

I never did think you were a bad person, but I will leave it at that.
 
We are in agreement here, as I did suggest a few minigame type events for this upcoming holiday period, one even provides participation for miners, industrialist, haulers, ship builders, and pvpers, but I do not want to leave this with my tooting my own horn.
 
Instead, I'd like to have confirmation that some content is pending within the next month to month and a half, that will add to gameplay options, which does not have to be significant, just entertaining, with a small reward, and open to everyone, instead of only those who spend a lot of time off-planet.
 
 

TBH, my first thought upon seeing this post was "how many threads is he going to create about this."
 
However, my initial reaction was wrong as I see you really do have a reasoned post and a great hope for what DU has long promised to be.
 
FWIW, I did not see that of the BPs I have from others were made core. I'll have to check again, but I am certain that some were and some were not. It may be just a glitch in the matrix.
 
I am against a wipe, for many reasons, but a talent rest across the board would not have hurt a soul, if our talent points were all refunded.
 
Core destruction is not a bad thing, as it adds a real consequence to PVP, and also drunk/stoned flying. On the other hand, there needs to be an accounting for lag (much of it caused our allowed by NQ) and it is vastly unfair to create a situation that a player cannot survive merely because it is inconvenient to resolve the problem.
 
Yes, certain things were broken with the patch and I honestly expected that we'd see a server restart by now, but perhaps they were too exhausted from their earlier efforts.
 
Where they do need to take some quick action, also, is fixing the names of similar items, so they are more easily understood. This will be a problem with the purchase of schematics and I doubt any of those purchases will ever be refunded.
 
Like you, I would like to see more improvement before the end of this year and with that view, I posted my own thread with some suggestions that would be very nice to see, in some form or another, as a means to build bridges between NQ and the players. While not huge, they also do not require a large expenditure of resources or effort, just a minimal amount to signify "we're aware and listening."
 
 

At yet you can still address the possibilities from the perspective of what exists, or will as of tomorrow, in the game, and not at some date on the calendar 2023.
 
The game does not become unplayable as of 0.23. Some may adjust their play style (I won't need to), but others might see an opportunity to make money via the market, when they were not already doing so.
 
I am not stating this is the best patch ever in the history of patches, but I am merely choosing to look to the future and not piss in the pool before leaving.

@NQ,
 
While I am not a naysayer regarding 0.23, and I heartily agree with the changes, overall...
 
The more sensible posts of opposition have made a point that I happen to agree with, more opportunities for players to feel a sense of wonder and/or success and progression are needed ASAP, as opposed to a few months from now.
 
My words should not be taken as being regarding only the acquisition of wealth, although for many players that is their primary near-term concern. Instead, my position is that a player just joining the game with a beta subscription has very little to do that is exciting. There's much in the intention of possible futures, but this game is competing for a finite amount of time to be spent on gaming in the midst of a highly competitive industry.
 
Therefore, the primary concern, in my view, is adding content in the immediate future, that causes a player to WANT to return to the game, beyond the "minecraft in space" experience. Of course, squashing game-breaking bugs is critically important and should be a priority, but the lack of apparent opportunity, whether true or not, causes potential new players, and also new players to think twice about playing this game.
 
There is tremendous promise within DU, even though we do not all agree as to the method that such promise should or is to be realized, I think most mature players will agree that they clearly see the potential, and even accept that the development process requires time to bring forth its fruit.
 
However, this game's appeal and potential market of customers is not only to a select group of people, but a wider audience who come into a game with certain expectations, 1) it will be fun, and 2) it will be worth the financial and time investment.
 
Obviously, this game is not meant for players to hit "end game" access to T5 products within a matter of weeks or even months, but more like a year or more. And I am completely fine with this.
 
On the other hand, beyond building ground facilities, space facilities, or ships, there's not much else except mining and what strained efforts at pvp/piracy there are. True, wrecks and the ship event brought to us, but honestly, these appeal to a fraction of the players and not everyone even had an opportunity to participate in the most recent event. If we cannot do it, it really does not exist for us, at least in the short-term.
 
Admittedly, the industry change has slowed down progression and certain opportunities (such as affording a good space hauler or fast courier ship) even more, and overall I am totally fine with this. Yet,  what else is there for a player to do upon logging in? Yes, they can seek to make money or build. Both of which are worthy goals and have more than one option available.
 
Great.
 
What is there to keep a new player interested in returning? Or an old salt, for that matter?
 
Exploration is what originally drew me to this game. The ability to name new planets/moons has a certain appeal to me. And while we are not there yet, I do hope that such is in the future of DU.  But...
 
What about now or next month or three months from now?
 
A mission system was mentioned, most recently in the stream on Monday, but also previously. Terrific! That will be something to pursuit when it arrives. What can be done before that blessed day?
 
Some have asked for PVE, presumably NPC pirates or maybe dangerous fauna or even flora. Of course, these will take development and resources, which in turn require an investment of money and time in their creation. These also have some interest for me.
 
So, what about before the end of this calendar year? Can the mission system, at least an early form of it, make it into the game for us to test out and mess around with over the Christmas holiday season? I teach school, so that works for me, but many people tend to have extra time during this part of the year (in the year of covid), unless they are in sales (poor sods).
 
If the mission system cannot see an introduction, how about a special mining/relay event, kind of an "intercept Santa's helpers" event where players mine out special ores, which then must be transhipped to a location on another planet, warp being disabled for ships carrying this ore), with the winning team getting a prize, and all participants receiving various rewards depending on their participation level? Even pvp players could get involved, trying to capture the ores for themselves, to deliver to the appropriate location. Maybe we can all get a special schematic, or do a short mission to receive it as a reward, for industry to make special and specific event containers to hold this special event ore. 
 
How about planting research stations, or facilities, as part of the wrecks feature, which have a few lower tier (t2-t3) schematics and perhaps a chance at a higher tier ones (t4-t5)?
 
Perhaps a ship building contest were we all receive a package of ship parts (all the same) and the goal is to make the 1) fastest ship, 2) best designed (aesthetically), or 3) most  indestructable, or something along those lines?
 
A final thought, maybe players are given special holiday season tokens, which are awarded each day they log in, between now and 10 January (or whenever), which can be saved or spent on various decorative elements (made special for the even) or ship parts that have a unique skin.
 
These are just things I thought of while typing this post.
 
I am positive that others have thoughts of they own towards easy (relatively) to create and mange events or content that will help keep players in a positive mood, in spite of all the negativity being proclaimed by those most bent out of shape over the recent changes.
 
I do invite anyone else with other content suggestions, for near-term, and are easy to manage/create, to share here, too.
 
We don't always have to agree or even get along, but I believe that most all of us here would like this game to be the most fun and entertaining version of itself that it can be. Also, can we please just save our demands for a wipe or a return to pre-patch for other threads, among those that already exist, for example?
 
Regardless of whether or not you think these ideas are worthy of consideration, at least give the credence to the spirit in which I have delivered them.
 
Penwith
 
Dread killer of chickens,  Scourge of raccoons, and Devourer of pecan pie.