Deintus

I see a lot of different reasons here for people quitting or thinking of doing so, and sadly that further strengthens the main reason for me quitting.
There is always a loss in player base when a game launches, and after major update player base influxes. All aspects of the game seem to be "loosing" players right now, and I fear it is more than just the normal decline that is to be expected.
Reading through this thread, and a lot of other threads on this forum, I'm gonna generalize and say... people quit because ALL features are at BEST in their infant stages, many not even conceived yet.
Which then leads me to say "This game should never had ben "launched" like this."
For me it all comes down to this.
Does this game/dev team have a trajectory to "success"?
Success is of course different from company to company, and person to person hence the ""
But one thing I deem a big parameter of success is financial stability, and as far as I can remember, I read or heard somewhere that that is one of the reasons for the subscription based model of the game, and I fully support that.
So, to keep a subscription based game a success you need x amount of players to be subscribed, and here is the first red flag for me. NOWHERE can I see or have ever heard of what NQ needs or expects player numbers to be to be financially sound, and that might be ok if I had heard something like "we would be happy to reach such numbers as EVE has over a couple of years", or "50k players would make us happy" ore just something. All I have ever heard is JC's "We are developing... with a possibility for... hundreds of thousands or even millions". I know, that is not to be taken as "we need millions of players to be ok", but in what ball park is the expected/needed number of subscriptions?
And here comes the reason for this wall of text...
What are you gonna do if you do not meet those numbers?
My fear, and one of main reasons for me quitting is the following scenario.
 
game launched as it did, and is now suffering for the unfinished state If they get updates out on a regular basis, an influx will occur, and then natural falloff at "launch" (my best bet is in 1-2 years)there will be a big influx in players especially if and when they launch on steam and other platforms My fear is here. A lot of those new players will drop of quickly, and many of them with a bad taste in their mouth du to the game "launch" they bought, is actually not a launch at all, that happened 2 years ago. specially on steam, this will leave a "stink" on the game, bad reviews, if not all out review bombing, refund claims ect. and halt the player influx. after that (if not sooner) we will be introduced to the in-game store, where items developed for the game, are kept out of the game for you to purchase. And despite it being a subscription based game, excuses like "its only cosmetic" or "not enough subs to keep development going, only maint." will be used. more people leave DU goes F2P to increase players, in-game store is filled to the brim of digital crap for you to buy, and not much development is going into the base game. This "fear scenario" is fueled by lack of communication from NQ, forum post going unanswered, tickets taking 2 months to answer (that is my own ticket for lost items due to the early inv bug where items just went "poof" when picking them up in build mode), "discussions" about updates, and upvote on features does nothing for my confidence in this project (that should have happened long before you "launch" the game).
 
So to sum it up for those not bothered to read the wall...
 
The premature "launch" of the game, and handling of the community since said "launch" has completely eroded my faith in team and game.
 
Thats why I quit

I wouldn't call this "piracy" at all. Basically it's PvP with looting. Piracy would require me to have some tools to coerce cargo/money from people without having to kill them. As it stands I can barely text chat a threat to some one, and even if I could how would I get anything from them? This game has a LONG ways to go if we want real piracy. Disabling tools, a way to forcibly board ships and break containers without having to pew pew everything to bits first. You know, finesse type stuff.

English isn't my native language.
 
Everything you have said is completely irrelevant to what is currently being discussed. 

A problem is that the person responsible for that vision seems incapable of explaining it very well and has a habit of sidestepping any direct questions regarding it.

Yeah - too bad the person whose vision the game is doesn't play the game...

Aww - you think they care what we think - that's cute.
 
https://dualuniverse.featureupvote.com/suggestions/122819/recipes-as-items-industry-balancing
 
Read through the feedback for the proposed schematics change from October - they totally cared what we thought.

NQ is trying to sell an early alpha state development as a released game in beta as a paid for live service game. They are not owning up to their commitment and promises set out starting from kickstarter and continue to water down the game.
 
They are trying to make things work but due to the way they designed the game are not able to build complete game loops to facilitate that and seem unwilling to make changes to be able to actually do that by introducing PVE content which is needed to make mechanics work and instead think that they can save the game by introducing a Battle Royal mode and a creative sandbox mode.
 
They think that the mission system is the silver bullet that will solve all problems, they think that by adding a magic "available power" number to tiles they can create power management that is immersive and attractive. They do not consider options and suggestion that actually trigger gameplay for all game play styles and make the game complex, strategic and emergent.
 
If players find creative ways to play without affecting others, they nerf these options. If players find creative ways to play while impacting others  though creating obstacles and risk for others with the same end goal/effect, NQ thinks that's fine and really cool.
 
They say that the industry changes are what was always intended but they were not ready and the result was that  too many player got to "endgame" content (whatever that means) too fast.. Thing is, the changes do not take that endgame content away, it just denies those that did not get there yet for whatever reason the ability to do so while the ones that did will be able to carry on . NQ pretty much is of the opinion that as a solo player or small group you have no problem as you can just pay others whatever they want to ask for by using te markets.
 
Large orgs can isolate entirely from the in game economy and fend for themselves regardless of the changes because it hardly affects them as they have already stocked up and have so much money they can just blanket buy what other will have to work weeks, if not months for to get to. _THAT_  is what the economy is not starting, the isolationist behavior is not with the "small guy", it is with the big orgs who have build their own infrastructure internally, and did so to some degree by using early exploits, loopholes and possibly insider info, and have zero need or incentive to use or feed markets/the economy outside of dumping surplus at whatever price they desire to set for it and/or use their position to undercut and push out anyone trying to get a piece of the pie.
 
Yes, it would certainly cause a setback for many who worked hard to build a small business for themselves in game but the only way to correct the stranglehold the big orgs already have on the game will be to wipe and allow everyone to build their dream on even footing after massive changes are introduced which really are the definition of alpha state of development for a game.
 
 
To quote myself from Discord;
 

 
 
 
And yes, I do feel I am being "clear, polite and to the point."
 
 

Please do NOT tell people how to play the game.
I've more or less the same strategy: solo play, absolutely prefer to be independent, spending most of my time (did at least pre-patch)  building up my base where aesthetics is a priority, crafting some space ships, and visiting other territories to view their creations.
 
Playing an MMO does not mean that you're required to group with others.
Everyone is free to play how he prefers to - we are talking about leisure time.
 
If you like playing solo - just do it, it doesn't hinder others in any way playing in a party mode if they want to.

I understand what you are getting at as well as what the devs have mapped (publicly) and what they are shooting for. But my issue is am I expected to keep paying a sub and wait, hope, pray, for the changes to take place and until that time just pay to mine very limited and dwindling resources while making little to no money just for a craft to get offworld?
 
I still believe other income for money should have been established before something that costs this much to the player. I still think improved PVP that could open up job opportunities should be in place so we players can pay each other directly for jobs.
 
AND... I still believe the game has future potential, I just don't see a point in wasting RL money now waiting...
 

I understand what you are getting at as well as what the devs have mapped (publicly) and what they are shooting for. But my issue is am I expected to keep paying a sub and wait, hope, pray, for the changes to take place and until that time just pay to mine very limited and dwindling resources while making little to no money just for a craft to get offworld?
 
I still believe other income for money should have been established before something that costs this much to the player. I still think improved PVP that could open up job opportunities should be in place so we players can pay each other directly for jobs.
 
AND... I still believe the game has future potential, I just don't see a point in wasting RL money now waiting...
 

I've been monitoring ore prices this morning. Hematite on Alioth went from on average 24q per unit to just under 19q in four hours. The market is flooding as everyone is underground grinding to have any hope of pulling themselves out of the industry hole they find themselves in. I expect that price to plummet even further by this evening as more and more ore floods in. Its a basic economic concept based on the Wyckoff methodology that the rich will get richer and the poorer work hard to maintain a basic standard of living. As a poor noobie it's really not fun.

i started around a month ago , i just claim a piece of territory in sanctuary and start building from nothing , i enjoyed the game , it was complex but still fun . Now eveything must be redone x10 , i do not possess enough time to do that .I guess only big orgs will be able to make something out of that mess (may be) .

This is just some kind of madness. I really can't believe this is really happening. There is no PvE in the game, there is no way to earn a quantum other than mining, damn it. Mining, mining, mining. I hate mining. I just want to build factories and make stuff for myself. Not for sale, for my own use. As I said, I hate mining, but I'm ready to do it for myself needs. But in order to make money, to buy recipes? LOL never. I am leaving the game until this patch is removed from the server. The game is not playable for me now.

We now need money to produce  anything.... but we need to mass produce to have money ...  and there is no other way to make money. Oh yes ... I  could wait 30 days, connecting everydayt, to have 3M... and be able to produce.... mass basic connectors !!!!  Awsome ... 
 

Is EVE, Minecraft, Albion Online a Sandbox? If yes, i had a lot of fun playing this solo. 
 
I played for a long time WoW, DCUO, HDRO and other MMORPGs Solo. And i had Fun
 
I don't expect to have access to all content like groups etc, but at least some things should be possible solo. 
 
But you are right, it is as it is. Many will perhaps also be satisfied with the changes. It's just a pity for many, because it has been a lot of fun so far, I think that's why the dissatisfaction is big, because something has been taken away from them. If they had just introduced new things that solo players could hardly access, the scream would have been much less, I think. 

With any such large change, the markets are going to be a mess for a few weeks, until things settle down.  Were it my concern, I'd just do what I want to do, like build my base, for a couple of weeks and see how things sort out. It is possible, as far as that goes, that NQ will tweak things or react to player responses and needs in a positive fashion. While people claim this should have happened in Alpha, well , it has happened now and better now than shortly after release or even a year after.
 
The developers are not idiots, no matter what the naysayers might claim. They are ultimately in this to make money, but do so with a design philosophy and an idea that they hope will bear fruit and profitability. Thus, I do expect that we'll see some changes and tweaks, here and there, between next week and the next couple of update patches, that will help resolve some, if not many of the concerns that are being expressed.
 
Not that I expect them to respond positively to demands from the disgruntled, but rather to look at player trends, gauge the player experience and determine where the target experience falls short.
 
Hopefully, you do not choose to pull the plug, but it is all up to you.
 
 

Seeing all these remarks i think we are missing the most important part.
Apparently there are players, as seen before, that are tipped by interns at NQ about stuff ingame, updates and glitches so they can get profit from it.
If this is the case it is serious and well, this could end a game even before it starts. Even rumours about it are damaging to a company and a game.
Who will play a game where some players are informed about how to work around updates and glitches by someone in the company while all others must struggle?
Since there will be no wipe, any advancement now will be enormous in a few years, but some seem to forget that.
Remember the enourmous Quanta some got, nooo no issue that will fade away, now we need to buy schematics with quanta......
Not to go to the conspiracy corner, its simple there should not even be the thought that some players are treated different then others. But then again, we will see
 

My son, who plays on a computer a few feet away, had massive lag, everywhere. It turned out to be his drivers. Once he updated all of those, the lag is limited to markets, for him.
 
Not saying you have not done so, btw.
 
But, I do agree with you. Visiting certain markets are like playing Russian Roulette, with a far more significant level of risk than 1 in 6.
 
I've already suggested, in these forums, that dynamic cores be unloaded and tokenized after two hours in a market hex, with ship and cargo put into that market container. The tokenized ship can only be deployed in that same market hex. Deploying can happen once every 24 hours, to help limit the abuse from those who love to scam, I mean park their "ships" in the way of everyone else, lagging the hell out of the area, up to 30km or more.
 
Also, reducing the stations around the Ark, to a single one, with shuttle to Sanctuary (from there they can use teleporters to the different stations), would also help reduce clutter and lag. We do not need several ship stores , either. A waste of resources and a zone of death and despair for those unlucky enough to have an elevator draw at the wrong time.
 

Yes, JC did specifically state that talents effected by this patch would be reset, but that did not happen, at least for me. Not that it was a huge deal to train the new talents.
 
However, I do see that a reset across all talents for all players would be beneficial, as some/many would respect out of most or all industry and into something else.
 
We can already craft out of our nanopack and I think that doing so without schematics is a good thing. Yet, I do believe that advancing from the small scale to industry really is deserving of schematics.
 
Instead of unlocking them, I'd rather see an "introductory pack" for industry (in the future as a reward for doing industry tutorials) which provides schematics for certain things, free of charge. So, for example, a set of schematics that allows players to craft XS boxes from an Assembler S, would be a nice start/introduction to what a future in industry might hold. Such a thing would not unbalance the newly "balanced" industry, and go a long way towards allowing people to start from that point, being that hydraulics and frames are useful for other things, too.
 
It might also be that an "advanced" schematic be made available, which does allow players to craft XS-S engines, and other items useful for turning an atmospheric speeder into a space capable one. Again, one set of schematics that allow one to reach that result, would be very useful. This one, however, could  have a cost associated with it, perhaps 100k (but provide several schematics that currently cost 75k each.
 
 

The industry changes are too severe.
I'm not really enjoying the fact that i cant produce ANYTHING without investing millions to get my product lines up and running again.
I was in the progress of building a small production facility with only T1 ores, pures, components and finished products.
I'm not rich, with the login bonus for today, i've got 400.000.
In order to get my factory up and running now, i'll need millions upon millions. Only way to get that, is to spend god knows how many hours mining for the market instead of mining for my own production.
I dont really consider that fun or interesting gameplay.
 
So... i'm just gonna hope this gets heavily rebalanced soon or i'm gonna write off this game and move on
Damn shame, because i've just spent the last month getting to know the basics of the game and was actually starting to enjoy it.

I can not speak for @Olmeca_Gold but for myself, being a manufacturer of goods and actively flying parts and ore between my sites, I think what is needed is a balance. When I read the games details, I fully expected for people like @XKentX to take their shot at me. But my plan on counter-balance is paying fighter escorts.
 
I think what is needed is a fair and plausible way of fighting pirates, while allowing that piracy to still be a viable option for players. For me, it livens the whole game and enriches my experience. I don't want to be picked off like a pigeon in a gun range, but neither do I want to be bullet-proof. I think the best tactics and overall strategy should win the day.
 
 

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When an element arrives in a container hub the light next to it will flash
 
Note: Swap Spot delivers the higher Resource Point elements first.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
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One of the things people don't get is that there will always be guys that have chosen to play "the bad boys" or villains or whatever you call it. That's the point of sandbox.
 
If you provide a good playing ground for the villain(PVP space) they can get their gameplay there and be happy while the folks that don't want to PVP are completely safe in PVE space. Everyone is happy.
 
If the villians don't have a good playground then they come to play to the safe-heaven player's homes. You don't want this to happen. I gave an example above. It is much more destructive to the PVE playerbase.
 
 
 

Not trying to argue. At the end of the day the main topic of the thread is "Does NQ mean for it to be this way/Will it change"
 
I stated my view. You stated yours. Now it's up to NQ to see what direction they want the game to go in, they have 1 vote for allowing it after modifications and 1 vote for disallowing it altogether. That's what I see.