Warlander

Just depends on how they go about letting us go to this new solar system. If you can fly there on your own it might be fine but if you have to take any kind of star gate or some kind of long distant warp-gate to get there and its full pvp then nobody but pvp guilds will be there. After the large orgs finish wholesale strip mining this place and you cant get anything you came for on any of the planets here or progress then again only the large orgs will be able to go there. And if you give them an entire solar system to abuse and wholesale sack dry and prevent anyone from doing anything then eventually those large orgs will merge together so that they do own the new solar system. Once they finish looting all the alien tech take a guess what will happen after that lol. They will take that superior tech then use it on the rest of the people who cant get to new said solar system because not only are there any resources left in this one but no means to fight back against them at that point lol. Sounds super fun.
 
So when they start dumping all those new mats and technology back in this solar system they finish everyone else off because they can then giveth and taketh it away at will along with the whole market credit pool after that and run the whole market as they see fit. Then once they steal all our credits then there is no reason to come back.
 
So when you consider destructive elements on top of that you can only fight back as long as the resources hold out. Sounds like an awesome foolproof plan unless they totally reset the beta when they add all this in. But then again. But that is just delaying the enivitable.

And then there are the extortion fees Steam charges you everytime 'it' sells your game. I think NQ are smarter than that. I have already seen some prime time adverts for DU on the regular interweb in good places. Far better to spend money on advertising than to give Steam a cut of your profits.

Just depends on how they go about letting us go to this new solar system. If you can fly there on your own it might be fine but if you have to take any kind of star gate or some kind of long distant warp-gate to get there and its full pvp then nobody but pvp guilds will be there. After the large orgs finish wholesale strip mining this place and you cant get anything you came for on any of the planets here or progress then again only the large orgs will be able to go there. And if you give them an entire solar system to abuse and wholesale sack dry and prevent anyone from doing anything then eventually those large orgs will merge together so that they do own the new solar system. Once they finish looting all the alien tech take a guess what will happen after that lol. They will take that superior tech then use it on the rest of the people who cant get to new said solar system because not only are there any resources left in this one but no means to fight back against them at that point lol. Sounds super fun.
 
So when they start dumping all those new mats and technology back in this solar system they finish everyone else off because they can then giveth and taketh it away at will along with the whole market credit pool after that and run the whole market as they see fit. Then once they steal all our credits then there is no reason to come back.
 
So when you consider destructive elements on top of that you can only fight back as long as the resources hold out. Sounds like an awesome foolproof plan unless they totally reset the beta when they add all this in. But then again. But that is just delaying the enivitable.

I dont need an exact replica of reality to make sense. After all its supposed to be sci-fi in like the year 9000ish yet we are bickering over reality as we can comprehend in the year 2020. And still we have just the slighest of sci-fi elements we pretty much arent allowed to use like warp drives or light speed, or plasma, nuclear, fusion, anything lol.
 
We have anti gravity yet we shouldnt be able to move a ship? Wtf is that lol.
We have a tool but no mounted version that can do more? Wtf is up with that?
We have flight scripts with anti grav lock and yet we punish everyone who isnt using it? Wtf is up with that too?
 
I can keep going but you get the point. It does not need to be an exact replica simulation of the 20th century. We have futuristic weapons and yet we are flying around with fossil fuels yet trying to nerf the hell out of any of the sci-fi elements because someone might actually use them? Solid plan...
 
Either we embrace the Sci-fi aspects of this game or it needs to all be nerfed across the board including Pvp. We supposedly can build arc ships and yet somehow we made it to another galaxy/solar system on just elbow grease, a bunch of fossil fuels, and more warp cells then an arc ship can hold? lol yeah right when you can barely get to other planets and back and still carry frieght?

I am really torn appart about this one.
One one hand I think it's a good change to add more consequences to bad driving and PvP, but on the other hand I think it will cause the ships to be designed even more toward utility than looks.
This will discourage the use of decorative elements and exposure of parts to the outside.
All the ships going outside of the safe zone will quickly become iron boxes since it's the most effective way of protecting elements.
 
I think only the functional elements should be affected by this change.
Also I hope the really expensive elements (Anti-Grav for exemple) will have a decent number of repairs.
 
EDIT: however the changes about PvP radar and weapons limitation are amazing.

It would be a cool idea to be able to tow/push/pull one ship with another. Now that move tool range limit is being considered it becomes even more appealing.
In combination with space overdrive mentioned on another post below in this thread it would be awesome. A module like tow beams or long range magnetism could be used.
It could have useful applications in many aspects of the game like:
 
-PVP: Slowing moving ships down and eventually stopping them by pulling and braking.
 
-Resque:
Pulling stuck ships from the bottom of ravines and so on.
Towing destroyed ships to their owners base.
Pulling space only ships that somehow managed to fall on a planet back in space.
 
It would be cool if space stations could be moved this way with limitations to where they can go of course.
 
 

Dang... I actually have to agree with Majestic on this one!   Without solo players new players are forced to join orgs, and given the worst jobs possible.  Not many are going to stick around long.  "Sorry dude, until you donate 100,000 M3 of each T1 ore, we are not going to give you a ship.  If you solo and try to go it alone, we are just going to blast you out of the sky".  Gee, what fun.

The entire dev team can't work on the same thing at the same time. Should the artists learn how to program? The modelers learn how to bugfix?
 
It's natural that new content comes out along with fixes.
 
And sometimes, the fixes take longer.

Making it so that mining is even more time consuming and monotonous, and game breaking bugs have more serious consequences is exactly what this game needs now..  (and yes, that was sarcasm..)
 
And what would the rationale for removing force respawn be anyways?
1. It's a common feature in games.
2. Voluntary suicide (for some kind of advantage) would probably be a natural consequence of having resurrection pod technology available.

Honestly the maneuver tool nerf wouldnt be such a big deal if docking was not an absolute train wreck.  Patching log-breaking is not a big deal and I could use a bit of adrenaline while flying.  But docking my ships several times a day is already a horror show and this patch will just make it worse.

This game is pretty cool ill admit, but it isnt fit for general consumption.
 
There is no real purpose in this game resembling anything other than legos and minecraft. What are we actually building anything for with all the limitations on everything in a sandbox game? What is the point of doing anything other than mining to mine so that you can mine some more to build a massive base or to go scrim pvp for no real purpose other then bragging right? Beyond that what is there really to this game? Its all subjective without purpose to make of it what you want it to be and nothing more to it really.

Very bad way to implement this in my opinion. It should be so ONLY in space pvp. Distance in planet atmosphere should be much less. I'd say it should be the build zone of the core and only if someone with move tool or pilot rights is within it. If you load a ship in atmosphere and the game crashes in a populated zone like near a marketplace (happens regularly by the way), at least one person is bound to be in range of seeing your ship and it will crash.
 
+There are gonna be those people that will fly close to a disconnected ship so that it crashes on purpsose for a laugh.
 
A mechanic like magnetism or tow beams that lets a ship pull another ship from a distance to stop ships in pvp would be a great idea. It could also be used for towing or slowing something down in general. Would be a fine gameplay addition to resque ships/organizations. 

8: Renewable resources bc who wants to go to desolate strip mined out wastelands 6 months from now to spend a month to get what should take a few days to a week to get normally...

8: Renewable resources bc who wants to go to desolate strip mined out wastelands 6 months from now to spend a month to get what should take a few days to a week to get normally...

Not like this. They chose about the most tedious possible way to implement it.

Lol. I don't know if I'm a 'carebear', but DU's damage model and implementation is absurdly dumbed down. I have ~1200 hours in Space Engineers (where a crash will wreck and break apart a ship and most of the time very little can be salvaged) and ~500 hours in Kerbal Space Program (where a crash over ~50m/s literally means complete craft destruction).
 
I'd prefer a Space Engineers damage system, with needing to ensure ships have structure or else they break apart. None of this floating element nonsense. If you crash, well, better luck next time.
 
Of course, Space Engineers doesn't require dozens if not hundreds of hours for cumulative crafting times for even a moderate sized ship...

Yeah I liked Space Engineers while I played it. The medieval one was interesting but not as good as the space version. Fun while it lasted though.
 
I think if they would allow for core links to either customize your ship shapes in lines or any other shape you could chain on could work for section breaks if the  core links were severed or the voxels as well acting like structure failure could work well. Not sure if it would ever make it in the game but it would be nice.
 
Regardless I think they need to approach this from a different direction altogether.
 
Where as there should be some way to actually customize all the parts and items through alloys, different mats making up the item (think carbon fiber vs aluminum vs steel vs titanium for instance or even the bamboo composit materials that are harder than steel), mod-able parts in general (high performance, think of what you can do with say a stock mustang), hardness values, the HP tree, and allow us to customize our ship to what we thing we need. But instead up punishing people from the bottom up it needs to be from the top down.
 
Such as T1 crafted parts or items should have 25 crashes base before you add Talents or mods. The newbies still need a chance to learn to fly.
 
Where as if you are using T5 parts you should know what you are doing where as 3-5 crashes base before mods or talents should be much higher stakes for stronger items or higher performance parts really matter in flight, frieght, transport, or battle truely matter. Most large org could swing that where as if you are just some solo random guy you dont need a car with 500 horse power you just need a car that will get you from point a to b reliably that does not require as much maintenence as a F1 race car does and will last you 10-20+ plus if you take care of it or baby it.
 
Edit:
 
Been kicking the idea around in my head all day and if I were to make a constructive suggestion on how to make a fair top down approach to Destructive Elements that fair to both vets and newbies it would be this:
 
Scrap could use an additional Talent Tree branch called Equipment Manager Technician / Mechanic which allows for more repairs to to extend the life cycle of crashes for both putdowns & better functionality of the Repair tool.
Repair Tool Efficiency for additional hp per second when repairing Repair Tool Optimization for additional rate at which you can heal Durability Optimization for extending the amount of crashes any part can have on put down Auto Repair Tool Optimization for how fast your auto repair device can heal via scrap / parts to bring an item from destroyed to damaged  
In addition to this I propose for the amount of crashes that are base before any talents are added to be:
XS items: 50 base crashes before being completely destroyed for stock items S Items: 40 base crashes before being completely destroyed for stock items M Items: 30 base crashes before being completely destroyed for stock items L items: 20 base crashes before being completely destroyed for stock items XL items: 10 base crashes before being completely destroyed for stock items XXL items: 5 base crashes before being completely destroyed for stock items (future additions for frigate/corvette/ cap ships)  
Or alternatively you could give a buffer for crashes to newbies measured in total exp accumulation by the million to give some kind of grace period of still allowing newbies to learn to fly before it eases in. You could assume that by 10mil exp they would lose that buffer as the 10mil could equal 100% grace perhaps. You cant just throw them to the wolves and expect someone just starting the game to be able to constantly replace their ship after 3-5 crashes. I think by the time I both learned how to fly and also how to balance a ship in terms of progression of each of the core sizes and balancing and adding parts to make it actually flyable 50 base crashes for an XS is not out of the question or 30 crashes for an M is not that much out of the real of a learning/testing/optimization cycle.
 
Beyond the base crash buffer I would like to see a new Talent Tree added called Engineer in which adds additional destructions for all the element types to add durability to them on putdown or additional efficiency to repair each type of element or optimization. It is still independent of the effects in the piloting tree as well as the HP Tree. You could sepperate the two branches for Space Engineering and Ground Enginering which should be able to cover all the parts for ships and industry. I would also like to see another branch for Static Core Engineering and Dynamic Engineering which should add more links to both types of cores along with additional crashes or destructions to both cores.
 
Beyond that I would like to see grades added to different items:
Stock: Balanced for speed, durability, weight, and hardness) Performance: Optimized for speed over all other aspects Armored: Optimized for hardness and protection over all other aspects Composit: Optimized for specific functions or using sliders to some how choose what you exactly want High performance: Extreme power at a cost  
Beyond grades I would like to see all materials have additional traits added beyond just weight for:
Heat: Atmo Burn to allow people to travel faster in/out of the atmosphere with ores like silver, gold, copper, etc with each having a range of heat dissapation Hardness: How much damage absobsion a material has in terms of like titanium vs steel or bronze. Conductivity: Where specific weapons work differently vs different metals  
After that I would like to see another Talent Tree called Scientist in which you can alter the properties of metals / voxels or in a sense re-engineer the molecular properties of each of the ores. I think the Scientist could also have its own kind of industry in which you can mash different types of metals together to make alloys or composit materials which are completely custom or that can be used after that in industry crafting to make the Grades or Custom after market parts.
 
Or alternatively allow players to simply choose what kind of materials they want to add bsed on the values listed above which could make them completely different then they are now and help crafters to make various options for protection, speed, weight, durability, etc listed above into any item and where as the stock recipe would be balanced you could make the same item uniuqe which could break much faster or last a whole lot longer at the cost of something else.
 
A modular system would be a whole lot better then just pre-baked Tier versions of industrial machines which should focus more on the properties or mods you already get into the tree like byproducts, stats, bonus parts, numbers of mats, etc.
 
I also think that there should be wear and tear based on how long you fly or that other planets might be highly acidic and wear down your ship if you are on the surface. Industrial crafting should also have wear and tear associated with running the machines and require maintenence to keep them going too or even if you dont get PvP'd flying you will still incur damage over a long time requiring scrap repair. This should not be quick without allowing some kind of talent or using the material properties listed above.
 
The last thing I want to add would be to add random defects while producing items which could generate less crashes or durability, etc every so often.
 
The main thing here is to allow for stock items, grades, custom parts, after market parts and items that suit people for what they want to do. If you want the best of the best then it is highly desireable and gets destroyed faster making more money for those items along with grades. That way if you want to go cheap but last longer you can. If you want to risk more for more rewards or power you can at the cost of the life span of that item. If they add the Talent Trees mentioned above you could extend that lifespan a little more. Or customize any part to fit your style, color, etc.
 
You want to punish people from the top down who want to risk more not the bottom up people trying to claw their way up. People need time to learn the basics of how it works with some margin for error for each of the cores since you add over time for what you need before you test it or find out in that action that it aint going to work. Lots of test pilots have died doing experimental things. It takes a lot of trial and error in this game to get any ship off the ground as you go, but also that its the same story for each core progression as you see what you can actually handle. Its not our fault its just the nature of the beast until you finally fill it all out or you can get to the point a ship is fully optimized which again is a time based thing as you gain talents for putdown and other factors. You should not be punished for that.
 
The people who need to be punished the most is the Large orgs who are nabbing everything under the sun and set up to pvp. You need to give them more risk for more power within the confines of the system as it is now. Not the newbies or the smaller Orgs as they need to be allowed to grow in this system too as you can afford higher performance items or armor. It makes it more of a gap between the haves and have nots but it also comes with more risk, wear and tear, and other factors.
 
This way you get a lot more mileage out of your ship while still removing items from the game. Some people are way better then others at active flying if you arent using a flight script. The stock flight controls are not the best and honestly whoever re-wrote the whole flight system, NQ should buy it from them and add it to the game or hold public competitions for solo or group scripters to improve the game for custom exotic parts / recipies that use alien mats, or something. And just say hey we want to see what you can come up with for X and add the best ones in as stock standard scripts you can run since not everyone is good at coding. Its the same thing with art based assets or skins as people could make them for NQ through community events and add the best ones in. They should also consider adding a marketplace outside the game where people can sell them for cash and NQ takes their cut doing none of the work for stuff a fraction of the public would normally like or want since colors and skins are highly subjective anyways and you can do pretty much the same thing already with screens. Win/win.
 
I think this sums up everything this Destructive System needs to make it viable and semi realistic and less punishing for this trying to climb up the ladder while still giving leeway and options for those who want to push the limits and properly punishing those people while still taking items out of the game at an acceptable rate which wont cause everyone to kill the market because they are hoarding items in case their whole fleet breaks at once unexpectedly or that because you can blow up containers will cause scarcity along with mass inflation in the proposed system which will pretty much kill off any newbies joining with such stringent limitations.
 
.02

Not sure if it was mentioned before.
 
But the maneuver tool is also used to get constructs off of your 'lawn'. If the tool has a 3min timer it will be awful to remove parked ships from your territory. Also I bet the guys who make the next expo will have to say something against that. This will  make  such community things very hard to manage.
 
As a personal note: anything that needs a timer or counter is in general a sign of bad design. Not sure what the 'abuse' of the maneuver tool is about, but I guess people bring heavy load into space without any fuel or design needs for the ship. Maybe let the tool just move empty ships then? 

Problem is this could be seen as favourtism towards certain orgs, then you need responsible players to guide every new player as they come in the game and show them every little basic function. Pretty impossible to do. Then you have the issue that even after completing the tutorial people are still very much confused how to play the game, although I understand you felt it was a lot, others have said it wasn't enough and there is nothing wrong with either as some people learn by playing whereas some learn by tutorials.
 
Eve Online found out very quickly that the better they made the new player experience the higher retention the game had and now has a super good tutorial, WoW has also gone down this route with their new 1 - 10 new player leveling area. 
 
My idea is more to use what we currently have but streamline it better, implementing this should be fairly easy as its already ingame just requires moving.

Is it just me or overall community feedback on those features in the way they are proposed seems overwhelmingly negative?

@NQ-Naunet
One really major point i haven't found in comments of this thread is:

 - What happens to the destroyed ship in PvP at max speed?

Currently it stops because all player on the ship are killed when the core explodes and ship stops as there are no players in range.
If the dead ship calculation will be transferred to my PC, i will be flying close to the dead ship on max speeds and will have no option to capture the ship or even the cargo.
PvP at 29,999 km/h should be taken into consideration as well. We need some way to stop ships (at least dead ones) on max speed before making such changes.

Honestly I just want all my talent points back as this tool is totally flipping useless now.

What a joke this nerf really is...
 
We are supposed to be in like year 9000 or something and yet we are still flying around with fossil fuels / rocket fuel and no actual scifi tech or at the very least nuclear powered ships, fusion reactors, solar power, plasma, or anything cool lol. Hell we dont event have a proper hover jet / helicopter rotots? and yet with anti grav you cant even sustain it now? Or even move a ship more than 50m?
 
I could see if NQ was like hey we are taking away the max from the personal maneuver tool but we are going to add some kind of mounted  machine on static/dynamic cores. Or that if you are in your own territory you can move it more or outside your territories you cant move it as much.
 
Its like really?

Honestly I just want all my talent points back as this tool is totally flipping useless now.

I have a hangar that is 2 large cores. as it is now I have to move something 7 to 10 times even with skilled move tool to get across the hangar. Some of my ships are more than 50m tall. To move something on top of it now is a pain. 
 
Moving libraries and other tools to where I'm working is important because it's efficient. I don't rly know about any exploiting but I'm not sure what benefit a distance limitation would have serverside. Why 50m is the real question. Why not 200m. Is there a technical limitation?  
 
But it seems one of the patches broke the move tool and every time you move something it's a crap shoot if it's going to explode and fly off. Hence the large amount of port requests.