kulkija
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Posts posted by kulkija
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12 minutes ago, Knight-Sevy said:
they will have 3 months maximum to create the PvP content
Yup. Legion and other pvp orgs. Hurry.
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Hmm
https://dualuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Artificial_Intelligence
QuoteKnown AIs
Aphelia
Aphelia is the AI on board the Novark, the original Arkship in Dual Universe which landed on Alioth. She provides help and advice to new Noveans. Aphelia is considered untrustworthy by many, due to reasons such as vague responses to certain questions, overly interested in the everyday ongoings of passengers, and significant defenses against hacking.
This explains a lot. Should we revolt?
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3 minutes ago, Zeddrick said:
Wow, I didn't know it was that small. That's what, 10 people employed for 1 year with no equipment at best? What did people expect to be able to get done with so little money?
Many times these Kick starter rounds are done to demonstrate to investors that there is customers who are willing to pay.
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26 minutes ago, Yoarii said:
We have them; SVEA, Gottmart (and the space station I can't remember the name of), despite NQ making efforts that goes against the entire concept. What happens with these after the new schematic mechanic is introduced is still unknown.
True.
How ever those markets are created using Dispenser by creative way. Even those dispensers were short period disabled...
Aphelia's monopoly has superiors Technology in use, comparing to dispensers based shops.
Due to clumsy RDMS it is hard to enable other players to sell their stuff on same player run shop.
When D=Duties feature is missing in RDMS shop owner can not set up any taxes or other fees like Aphelia monopoly syndicate can.
Player shops are not connected to global inventory and exchange system (Nanocarfter market interface)
So even so little chance to compete with Aphelia, players are still creating shops and marketplaces. Creating workarounds to lack of Market units.RE:
https://dualuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Market_Unit
Ps. This is "Official and updated Dual universe wiki
https://www.dualuniverse.game/news/dual-universe-wiki-updated
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Hmmm. How to say this nicely?
Old promises may not be anymore valid but this is current sales pitch right now in DUs web page:"The free economy" - Seriously?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market
THE MOVERS AND
SHAKERS
An empire of immeasurable wealth begins with one humble quanta, the currency of the galaxy. These wheelers and dealers don’t merely operate within the rules of supply and demand, they command them. The free economy presents infinite opportunities for slick captains of industry, ambitious resource tycoons, and stalwart shipwrights. Craft and sell your own creations or act as a broker for makers who prefer to focus on their craft.
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@NQ: Why is this "Per player production volume time-gate" needed?
We already have several limiters controlling production volume and what is produced.
1. Raw material acquisition. Mining is already heavily limited per player.
1.2 Rare raw material acquisition. Gated also by pvp/pirates game-play (healthy gate) Or if miner wants to avoid pvp by warp it is limited by expensive warp cells.
2. Supply and demand is effective limiter. If supply is too high prices go under profitability limit. Inexperienced players may not notice that and do use too low prices, but those who know how to play industrial game-play , will benefit and buy low priced elements and limit their production until demand is high enough.
2.1 Professional Industrialists produces only those items which has demand. They do not waste their materials into something winch wont sell. This simple facts is very efficient limiter and control scheme for Industrial production.
Demand for elements is created by builders. How ever we can not use Markets to sell real end products = Ships
We are only able to sell 100% identical mass produced elements. This is the reason why markets looks like working badly. Markets and economy don't even have change to evolve healthy this way.
Other booster for demand is economical growth. Artificial limits works against economical growth.
PVP boosts demand also.
We should not look to much abut industry. It is only middle-ware, which supports other game-loops.
More artificial restrictions you at NQ put on markets or production/supply chain, worse effects it has to in game economy. Limiters are needed but those should come from other healthy game loops, not by hard-coded band aid.
Market fragmentation
Current huge amount of different items (both elements and stuff needed to craft them) is fragmenting economy and markets. There is too much different variations and types of elements vs. current player base.
About markets and problem of low economical interaction between players:
Aphelia markets:
Having these "Aphelia markets" all over the place is also big problem, fragmenting economy and breaking competition and supply/demand principle. There is no competition between marketplaces. Why would one monopoly compete with its own markets... Aphelia's monopoly fits wery badly into healthy economy. Combined to the fact that "Aphelia is the State and government," it controls "Legislation, production ... everything; This was centralized economy model in real life , but it has already failed.
Player markets
Players will Build their markets where demand is. Players will create healthy competition among their markets. That will create lots of interactions, those which are now missing totally.
When we get player markets?
NQ: Skip this Schema update and give us player markets.
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2 hours ago, Jake Arver said:
I absolutely agree that "blueprint magic" is silly and we should have gotten proper construction mechanics.. like we were told we would .. But so is AGG and there is a few more.
But then again, we were told a lot of things by NQ in the past 8 years .. Not in the least that NQ planned to release a finished game by December 2018 during the kickstarter in 2016 ..So many things are unfinished.
How ever we must remember that this should be SCIFI game. So our time "Normal" can be totally something else.
There is not so much SCIFIsh things yet.
We all should read this book:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Quantum_Thief
Or at least this Wiki -page.
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5 minutes ago, JayleBreak said:
So, ultra-fast express delivery is magic, but instant assembly of a big space ship from materials in a container a 10th its size located a km away is... not?
You right
Current Blueprint spawn is actually wery rough placeholder.
It will eventually be replaced with better system.
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16 minutes ago, Zarcata said:
Has anyone ever considered that the original vision isn't viable at all and NQ is somehow trying to pull together something playable so it's not a complete bust?
That vision at the beginning - it's gone.Clearly NQ is not following their vision. And here we are.
How many times in history people have said that "it is not possible," Man can not fly, earth is flat, Columbus shall newer go west...
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14 minutes ago, BiGEdge said:
Im not that negative about NQ,
i know they read everything and they know exactly what the community wants.
They tell us in they're podcasts that they listen to us. And i really believe they do.
So many gamefeatures were implemented only because of the voice from the community.
More market interaction - they implemented Schematics and it worked as intended
Easier Tools for Voxelmancy - they implemented the Vertex precision tool
Activitys for PVP and PVE - they implemented Shipwrecks and Alien Stations for PVP
Just three suggestions that came from the community and have been implemented.
NQs time is limited, but ive never heard from NQ that the budget is yet. So i have faith in them, they will save the economy and implement planetary PVP befor the release.
I have faith that they get the games economy running without a wipe that will kill the game entirely.
And i have faith that NQ is still up for the initial vision of DU and working on it.
I have less faith in the playerbase, because i see many players who joined the game, espeacially after the beta start, who havnt recognized the vision of DU and many dont seem to understand what DU is all about.
Dual Universe was never planned as a game build by developers to entertain players.
Dual Universe was planned as a parrallel world to our real world with all its good and bad sides.
Good is everything the kickstarter page told us. a virtual world build by players for players and all activitys come from the players.
Bad is that everyone has to work for it. You have to work in the game and yes the game feels like work, because it was allways intended to be.
But Work that pays out, with activitys for players and an emergent ecosystem, where the players build orgs, orgs build citys, citys that have to be defended against other players and naturally grow.
It seems many players have forgotten that they have to build the games content with all the many tools NQ gave us.
Not the devs build the world and the activitys. The players DU
Only task for NQ is to make those tools engaging, so we enjoy that work.Good points
I agree by 100%
What you wrote, made me think this:
I think we all agree about current problems. Direction of development is off
If NQ really does listen us , are those problems on us?
This I like to say to NQ:
Respect original vision and go towards it.
Ignore proposals which may lead to wrong direction.
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22 minutes ago, Vargen said:
Thank you for sharing this solution with us!
Ok, so now you want me to discuss the solution you presented. I've read your solution and I think I got a rather good grasp about how it would change the game play. I've also read the comments here and I think I could agree to most of them.
But there's one big problem!
If you have thought out a solution that you think fits the best and then ask me to discuss that, you also need to present the problem that solution is supposed to solve.
In these comments I see a few problems mentioned and possible solutions to them. That's good, and I can relate to the problems and share my opinion if that is a good solution or not.
I do see a few problems myself and could find, or at least share my idea of, possible solutions to them. But there's a lot of facts I don't know about. Facts that are necessary to know to be able to boil down what the problem really is about. And then, when you know for sure what the problem really is, then you can start to discuss how to solve it.
So now I will patiently wait for you to present the problem. And then, I can share my thoughts how that could be solved.Actually problem is described at top of latest Devblog post:
QuoteOver to NQ-Entropy:
When we released schematics in 0.23, it was to address a problem that had the potential to adversely affect Dual Universe as an MMO. Players were able to be fully self-sufficient with ‘build-it-all’ factories, reducing interaction between players in the game’s economy.
This is the only fact we know, everything else is pure speculation.
Before famous r0.23 game was alive and fun.
Implementation of schematics broke all industry and resulted wery bad feelings among players and big exodus, witch then killed fun out of the game.
It is not true that build-it-all’ factories, reducing interaction between players. They actually created more interactions, NQ Devs just didn't see that. I know because I was there playing actively and interacting a lot in our small org.
After r0.23 only 3 of us did stay, so no more factories and no more interactions. 2 of them left after territory taxes dropped.
This new proposal does not fix the real problem:
Game is not fun anymore. So veteran players may newer return. Does DU gain new loyal players with these harsh limits, time, talent and quanta gates, I don't know...
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4 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:
But as I expect these changes are not open for discussion and are about to be put in place in a few hours.. here we are..
True.
It is already dome. And will drop "very soon"
QuoteThe new schematics will come to Dual Universe very soon.
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Forcing to spread industry between larger player-base does not solve server load issues.
Industry is self regulating. Why someone would run industry creating elements which nobody needs?
Indy units run only if there is demand for elements.
Demand is constant and increasing if new game-loops are introduced, or player base increases.
It makes no difference on server-load is elements crafted in mega-factories or in small ones.
Ming is so tedious that nobody wants to produce large quantities of elements and waste ore for that.
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21 minutes ago, Knight-Sevy said:
1) The cost of mega industry on the server which is unmanageable in the long run.
Indeed all the players adding machines to their industries every day until having a full automatic that manufactures all the items is not viable in the long term.
Maybe you should have insisted more on the fact that these changes are almost mandatory and that it's that or no game at all.
NQ has not stated that Scemas and industry changes were made to avoid server-load. They were made to fix MMO aspects on game economy. To increase interactions between players.
If Indy units creates too much server load it is all on NQ. They did not only enable using those hunderts of indy units, but created it to be mandatory.
All those different unit types multiplied by different unit for every tier, multiplied by different parts, products, alloys etc. This creates so very complex need for industry. If server load is the issue, why not create one Indy unit, 3d printer which creates all elements. Then if server-load allows production can be separated again into more specialized indy units.
Need/demand for elements is constant. They enable more advanced game-play, PVP, building etc. If element destruction and wear is added it even increases demand for elements and demand for more indy units and more server-load.
Making industry game-play less complicated and reducing need for different indy units is only viable solution.
After all real game-play is created by PVP:ers and builders supplying pvp and other advanced game loops. Industry is vital part of that, but gets now too much attention. It is only small but necessary part of much more advanced game loops
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Just now, FatRillos said:
Some of this imbalance in the economy could also be remedied with actually adopting lives for elements like it's supposed to be. But the game being poorly optimized and crashes happening randomly and frequently this can't be used to actually get the market moving to replace the loses, because there are never losses. The elements live forever.
Element balance could also be addressed to limit the necessity for placing walls of elements on a construct. Leaving us the ability to use less of them to achieve a goal. electricity, heat, and fluid (which were added in the Lua in the mercury patch) could also go very far toward balancing the need for the economy to produce massive quantities of elements (limiting the ability for a ship to use an engine wall)
One good material sink would be Recycling with material loss. Also it would be destroying elements which will not sell and enabling to manufacture elements which has demand.
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Quote
NQ-Entropy:
"When we released schematics in 0.23, it was to address a problem that had the potential to adversely affect Dual Universe as an MMO. Players were able to be fully self-sufficient with ‘build-it-all’ factories, reducing interaction between players in the game’s economy."
This I do not understand.
We were supposed to enter totally empty alien planet in a spaceship and start there from the scratch.
In this original scenario only way to proceed is to be self-sufficient.
Bigger goals maybe by small groups or later in orgs, but self-sufficient still.
Now we got tens of fully furnished markets all over the planets in this whole solar system. Who build them. Not us; which we were supposed to build.
If ever we can find a new solar system or new planet, will those be full of Market buildings even before one human has stepped down from a ship after finding it?
How to colonies new planets if we can not be self sufficient?
This handhelding Themepark game is not what I opted in at Kickstarter.
Before 0.23 there was lots of in-game interactions. Game was alive and fun. Schematics killed all of that.
Interactions between players will newer happen by force. No way!
NQ: Stop this interactions by force nonsense
Interactions will only happen if we, the players, choose to do so.
Edit:
ps. How will using markets create interactions between players???
I can do most of my business anonymously and remotely. Even if I visit marketplace I newer interact with a player "because doing business." Current markets just do not need or enable player-interactions.
Before 0.23 we had lots of group-game-play operations, Mining ops, Hauling stuff for org members (way before missions), building together, helping to fix ships, rescue missions, manufacturing for other org members, you name it, we did it.
None of those required interventions by Aphelia nor using Markets.
We avoided markets because of all that junk and lag there. Some created own in-org markets by using dispensers in a creative way.
I created small factory and org members started to bring in ore and I manufactured (only) what they needed.
Our small org had only 3 factories, other members were using our services.
Building "‘build-it-all’ Mega factory" was in our plans as a Shared Org - project. What was wrong in that???
We did not need guidance by Aphelia or NQ.
Who ever said there was not enough interactions before 0.23 did lye.
Secondly:
‘build-it-all’ factory manufactures nothing. Nothing at all. Running that kind of factory is a huge effort which only few players want to do.
‘build-it-all’ factory actually creates interactions and enables group-game-play. Manufacturing only few items and selling them at markets kills interactions.
Also factories mostly produce elements which have no use as they are when they appear into container. Those elements only enables further more advanced game-play such as PVP, ship building (both for pvp and other ships) . etc.
- GrimReaper, hdparm, Hazaatan and 1 other
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10 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:
In relation to another full wipe being needed, yes.
This is not the same thing though and you get blueprints and I'd expect get to keep talent points which would really meet the "you get to keep your progress" argument as I see it.
But I get some will see that differently.Blueprints will be useless because so many changes. And more to come
About progress.
Personally I do not count Talent points as a "progress". They are 100% afk game-play.
For me progress is what I've done in game by actually playing it.
- got my Alioth tile
- created my base
- created small in-house factory for my orgs needs
- Created Space station and bought space elevator. (Again serving my org)
- Collected all elements and materials to spawn my AG ship from Alpha BP
- Bought several cool ships
-e.t.c
This is progress. This I hate to loose
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Sounds like another step away from player driven economy.
Producing items consume schematics copies.
Copying schematics will cost "a small fee".
This will create new TAX
Yet another "small fee".... When combing all situations where Aphelia collects those so called "small fees" total becomes wery big.
Great TAX simulator
- Wolfram, Maxim Kammerer, GraXXoR and 9 others
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5 minutes ago, Yoarii said:
Yes, the changes certainly killed Warp shuttles.
NQ, please add Warp Drive in sizes XS, and S with appropriate mass and limitations. And please,, share the design with us before implementing for feedback.
@NQ Also please add lightweight "Civilian pilot seat back"
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9 hours ago, Jake Arver said:
The nerfs have pretty much killed the entire warp shuttle concept. By giving in to the crying and complaining of the PVP crowd NQ have effectively destroyed a good portion of entirely non related gameplay.
There is still hope.
When atmo-pvp comes we all get agile and fun to fly atmo ships back.
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6 hours ago, TobiwanKenobi said:
I don't think the PvP community asked for it. The adjustor nerf for heavy ships was an unexpected part of a multi-prong attempt by NQ to make heavy L-cores no longer the defacto meta ship. And it worked - these days M-cores and Scores are supreme. Light Scores can easily outmaneuver heavy Lcores by getting close and orbiting them, or just jousting back and forth at close range, forcing the Lcore to do 180s. This is a great way to balance ship size because it depends on player skill to execute and counter, not just stats. So I really like it. But I don't think it should affect ships in atmo.
Maybe PvP community did not ask for specially this, but..
PCP community asked "better pvp"
Overall changes and nerfs to make pvp better, affected non-pvp ships as well
@TobiwanKenobi Your Lightskipper Courier
iswas probably the best warp shuttle ever made. It was fun to fly Not any moreBefore those "pro pvp changes" it weight was 65t , now its weight is 118t (correct me if i'm wrong)
That is about 80% increase of weight.
Now it hardly break gravity, now it is no fun at all to fly.
I have bought all your sips, just because Lightskipper Courier was so fun to fly.
So do you say to your customer that it is all ok... you have more fun...
Now I need a new warp shuttle. Will it be you or some other shipbuilder whom I by my new shuttle.
EDIT: Sorry I was barking a wrong tree... It is not shipbuilders fault when NQ breaks things.
Don't worry, I'll buy updated Lightskipper Courier V2.0 as soon you have it ready.
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1 hour ago, CousinSal said:
Tell that to the people I know who have multiple billions, and all they do Is dump ore in. It literally happens.
How they get that ore?
Don't they sell their stuff at all?
How they earn quanta? Indy units do not create quanta...
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11 hours ago, CousinSal said:
I know people who have factory that make 95%+ the stuff In game, and just drop ore in and it automatically maintains. Thus meaning their gameplay is largely over.
Not true.
When automated factory is ready, it does not produce nothing.
You have to supply constant flow of ore to make your factory run.
You also need to cover costs for acquiring raw materials.
At this point you are only creating losses, and yes your game will be soon over because you run out of Quanta.
To at least cover costs running your factory you need to sell stuff, with profit.
- Aaron Cain and Kurosawa
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NEW SCHEMATICS - Discussion Thread
in General Discussions
Posted
From pvp to the topic.
This new schematics system and more tedious industry will hurt pvp too.