FryingDoom

My apologies if you live in a part of Tokyo where shooting people and stealing are strangely not illegal actions. 

As this is a form of PvP it should be limited to PvP areas and never be allow on Sanctuary Moons. 

About the situation:
The organization Desolation (https://community.dualthegame.com/organization/4124/) has used a bug very actively to move ships from the Safe Zones (even planets) to the pvp zone to destroy and therefore steal them. Around 300 players have lost there ships and a lot of new players with that everthing they had resulting in a big quit wave. We know, that Desolation even allows their members explicitly in their rules to use any kind of bug and exploit, which is clearly against the rules of Novaquark.
 
NQ now officially confirmed, that this organization doesn't get any punishment. So basicly this whole rules here
 are complete bullshit, because you can do whatever you want, Novaquark will not punish you.
 
If that is the way NQ wants to go, this game will die pretty quickly because all new players, that don't have the power or organizations behind them yet will quit the game very quickly.
 
In my opinion, this is a very poor and weak behavior of Novaquark and a punsh in the face for every honest player in this community.

Or perhaps you should both wait and see, from the livestream the other day JC REITERATED that pvp will favour the defenders and that it will be difficult to attack planet territories, he also made it clear that there will be a LOT of bonuses for owning a lot of tiles in the same location, suggesting that interior tiles of a large claimed areas would even be totally immune from attack unless exterior tiles are defeated first, showing AGAIN that they are looking for planetary pvp to be more than just bullshit offline raiding that you see in 'survival game', much more considered.  Pretty clear to me that they want to give us all the tools we need to defend ourselves, or at least those of us who are working together to build civilisation.  All those solos, running off to hide in the hills to be 'self sufficient' yeah they are pretty screwed lol.

What is currently happening is that there are a lot of people who are PVP oriented who are just ganking. They are in the game for one reason only; to kill other players. They are not interested in creating content, in having great fights, they just want to find a target, shoot and kil it and move on.. If they get the impression the target will actually come prepared and ready to fight, they run away. I have seen several of these instances now and it is these players that cause the concern and the unhappy feeling with those who do not want to be engaged.
 
On the other hand, I see the ones who are genuinely PVP oriented and I believe would not run away from a fight but actually want and take it defend the gankers (because they feel "their" gameplay of choice is attacked) which results in skewed opinions of each other in the process.
 
At the same time, NQ is very clearly not focusing on PVP as what the game revolves around, it is part of the game and it is something you need to account for and expect. If however PVP turns out to be groups of players randomly roaming and destroying what  others create with no reason but that they are able to do so, DU will become a wasteland, those that stay will go underground, the surface will be empty and lifeless which is what NQ does not want.  NQ has said they will create territory warfare in a way that it favors the defenders and we already know that TU wil be pivotal in that. There is more than enough known now to start preparing your base/city/community for the coming of TW and if you don't well, that is on you then.
 
In space there will always be skirmishes and small scale combat, just like in EVE those events will hardly dent the overal game evolvement and are just a part of everyday life in DU. NQ needs to bring in mechanics that allow non combatant players to minimize the risk which means (E)CM like jammers and radar lock breaker, maybe even voxel material with stealth-like properties making it much harder to get a lock in the first place.
 
And yes, NQ wil need to run several balance passes on weapons as they are currently way overpowered. At the same time radar needs to give more detail, if PVP players see a target is "just" a shuttle it becomes less of a target, now they make the effort to approach and engage and have no idea what they are attacking really outside of core size. So the choice is to just engage anyway and see what happens, if there is more information they can make the choice whether or not to engage in the first place.

Removing PVP from the game would be bad, it will make the game stale and one sided. Having way overpowered PVP does the exact same thing. Having a game just for builders will not bring in the revenue NQ needs, having a game where PVP is dominant would do the same. NQ will need to balance these two sides and they will need to do so in the next 6-8 months probably at least to the point where the way forward becomes clear. Right now it is way too early to really draw any conclusions as NQ is still busy fighting fires on their backend servers and they can only really progress once they have that stabilized.

This IS NOT a survival game, can you find anything anywhere which presents this as a 'survival' game.  It is a civilisation building game, which is completely different.  Players that play it like a survival game WILL struggle, those that buy into the concept of civilisation shouldnt have an issue. 

PvE also adds risk and a lot more people seem to enjoy that than they do PvP.
 
What I find startling is the fact that PvP gamers always talk about how good PvP is but they only ever seem to want to attack non-PvP players in ships that cannot fight back, against players with no interest in learning all of the skills and abilities to PvP. They never seem to form into opposing groups in areas with the aim of attacking other PvP players.

Until I read this thread, I did not realize derails could be perfected into an art form. {sarcastically} Congratulations, @FryingDoom

So what you are saying is that they lied about non-PvP areas then.

Must admit if they are just making EvE Online Part 2, it really makes the game complete crap and not worth playing. As EvE online Numbers show no one wants to play that crap any more and before you say something stupid read CCP Games financials. 

I do really get your point, and I would 100% take a wipe for a better game, and I agree I would be stupid not to.

To clarify, they have said that they will do whatever possible to avoid wipes and any wipes that did happen would be compensated.  Tbh I wouldnt even want all of it, infact I would settle for a long headstart. But some sort of recognition of loss is required, I bloody love this game and defend it in a lot of places, if it pisses me off then I think it might upset a few others.

Finding agreement is becoming a worrying trend today

It is not about being a 'crybaby' it is about a company selling something and then completely going back on it.  If they had said that there would be a wipe, no problem.  If they had said they couldnt confirm anything, no problem but they didnt, they chose to soft launch the game.  Reading your post I am not even sure you know any of this.

So you are completely missing the point, if you say to people - there will be 'no complete wipe' unless it is unavoidable and then people make decisions and invest loads of time and effort based on that. Then you turn around and decide that actually no, all of that time and effort would be lost, people will be pissed.

The 'no wipe' decision was NQ's they made it, as such I committed a huge amount of my time, if they go back on that it is a massive FUCK YOU to me and others who have invested that time.

I understand why they made it, they had to because they started to charge subs.

Please note, I dont think they will wipe
 
Oh and as you chose to call me both a crybaby and stupid, WTF is that username, are you 12?

Wow we have gone off topic here.... not even I could have gone this far off track GG

Systemic protection for scum bags and extreme censoring, this dev team must be owned by microsoft.  I've literally received warnings on Discord for simply IDing this guy for what he is and trying to create a blacklist to protect other players. Let it be known that NQ clearly wants you to be insided or scammed. 
 

Please add triangular glass plannels, is a easy feature and increase the creativity alot.

That's an empty camp raid which is the essence of what so called PVPers think is game play. That's why open world PVP doesn't work.

This is a reasonable perspective. 
 
Stop attacking people that ask or complain about PVP...it really won't help if the DU community has a bad reputation before the game even launches. Someone shouldn't post here expecting to get attacked for stating their opinion about a game...
 
If the way PVP will work in this game was really so obvious, people wouldn't be here complaining or asking questions.

Consumers don't do in-depth research before they buy, they buy from emotion. Plenty of players have only ever watched the beta launch trailer...if they churn and subs plummet because they fear how PvP will work, it's everyone that suffers.
 
IMHO the discussion should be steered to "what happens after you blow up"? 
 
There's plenty of ways to make being ganked a less soul-crushing experience without making the game "easy" -- I'm sure NQ will figure it out, but if this is a community-driven game, it'll be hard to grow if the community has a toxic rep...
 
 

I still hope they will do something like albion tiered approach with safe zones with basic materials (would be tier 1 and 2 for us) and everything outside progressively less "safe" with highest tier resources in completely free for all zone. 
But my hopes are diminishing with every new information

Hold on, if PvP is so highly loved by so many, surely there must be thousands of people feely engaging in PvP, as so many love it.
 
Why do you need to force people into PvP if it is such a great thing?

I don't know about you but I don't want to spend 2-3 weeks building an at most medium transport only to be ganked by someone who only specs PvP ships.  Yay, so you spent a month logging into the game to get your free credits and adjust your unattended talent tree. That shouldn't be a free ticket to gank everyone who actually puts effort and time into building something, and you know, actually plays the game to build their stuff vice camping out and buying a market fighter...
 
Just saying. I'd be happy with a "New World" type PvP system where orgs can battle it out for control of planets during declared war periods. 

lol posting kill bords for jitta when jitta  kill boards are mostly people testing builds and fighting each other in consensual pvp
this convo is a representation of lie's from people trying to justify killing farmers and peasants and wanting no safe zone at all
in HI SEC if you attack another player outside of consensual duals CONCORD will come and destroy you and you're rep with the current npc factions state you are in will drop and if you keep doing these actions you will become hunted buy the NPC police every time you enter their systems 
 
DU is Lawless and thinking players are going to police the game in a GOOD way is stupid and shortsighted

It is only boring to people without imagination. Stepping up to what? Destroying weeks of my life for your cheap 30 second thrill? You guys have horribly twisted minds.

Hold on, if PvP is so highly loved by so many, surely there must be thousands of people feely engaging in PvP, as so many love it.
 
Why do you need to force people into PvP if it is such a great thing?

The funny thing here is that your are in fact making the exact statement and hold the same opinion as the people you accuse.
 
Why would PVP players leave when they can't "get to" people who do not want to PVP? Why are you, by your own admission here, defining the success of PVP by the ability to prey and attack those who do not have the ability to defend or do not wan to be attacked? Why are you not able to find and fight others who are interested and engage in PVP? Is there something about the risk of actually being killed by a better or smarter PVP player that holds you back?
 
Fact is that if PVP were to be removed form the game today, it would mostly continue as it is, far more people are interested in building and designing. Now, I would be the first person to admit PVP brings an element to the game that makes it better but the notion the game would fail if PVP were not there is only true from the perspective of the PVP oriented player and it is their personal truth, not the absolute one.
 
It's just amazing how some of you PVP  "players" are really just looking for the risk averse kills and will no doubt start crying foul as soon as NQ bring in mechanics that will allow non combattant players a better chance of not getting killed while not actively engaging such as jammers, stealth tech and other counter measures besides putting weapons on ships. The one crying here is you, not the PVE players actually.


DU is not a PVP centric game, PVP is part of the the game loop, it's not at the center of it. 

No my answer is if something is so unpopular that they can't get enough people to do it why should it be forced on people.
World of Warcraft learned this when they realised how unpopular PvP servers were and made it opt in, as did Elite Dangerous.

Hold on, if PvP is so highly loved by so many, surely there must be thousands of people feely engaging in PvP, as so many love it.
 
Why do you need to force people into PvP if it is such a great thing?