Bazzy_505

The short answer is no, it can't. Not now, not in 10 years. Probably never. 
 
Even if it were polished, bug free, and could actually scale technically, DU is a niche game, apparently by design. 
Even if it had all features like PvP done, its version of combat is not going to have mainstream appeal, which you need to "kill" a game like SC. 
Even if NQ had a sudden investment of another $20 million, they wouldn't be able to erase the last 7 years of tech debt and problems.
 
Hell, even if NQ had $1 billion for marketing, they wouldn't be "killing" anything soon...because $1 billion can buy you new users, but it can't buy lower churn rates...
 
If they attract 5 million players tomorrow (and magically can scale to handle them), they wouldn't keep them for long. Long term, it would make little difference to the health of the company. 
 
Why do I believe that DU won't fix all its problems and scale...? Because you judge a studio and product by its history, not the value of its "great ideas". 
 
Ideas are very cheap. A good idea is worth about $0.05. The execution is what actually matters -- and NQ doesn't have a history of executing their "grand ideas". The last 7 years have communicated one thing very clearly: that NQ can't build DU the way it was presented.
 
That's not because NQ's devs are bad, it's because the idea was bad. It was always half-baked and overly ambitious. Some of the things JC claimed were never going to be plausible without the magic "cutting-edge" tech that never materialized. 
 
It might become a decent game one day, don't get me wrong....but it won't be the "civilization sandbox" people like to imagine -- and won't be competing with AAA studios in this reality. 

The relevant point reads:
 
 
And yes, they mention talent points as part of the advantage veteran/experienced players have, sure. Your interpretation here is something I do not agree with at all and the general notion that  new players have an unsurmountable disadvntage over those who have been playing for longer is factually incorrect and easily proven worng.

Of course, having accrued more talentpoints is an advantage. But the way the talent system is designed (which is pretty much direcly lifted from EVE), that advantage actually get's less important very quickly and I have explained that several time now. Bottom line is that a new player will catch up to about 80% of the level a player who has been training for two year is at in about 5 months, as a new player trains several talents to L4 while  the more experienced player will train level5 of a single talent. ANd 5 months in a game like DU is really not all that long.

After some time, talents that are trained will be the ones with higher multipliers. Each talent has a base of 600,3000,15000,75000 and 375000 point respectively with a multiplier ranging from x1 to I believe x15 currently.
 
As you see from the above, the way talents work is that for the talent to be trained 100%, you spend 20% of the time needed to get to level 4 and then 80% for the 5th level. And a 2 year old player would generally be training talents with x5 multipliers and up, so the new player will be able to train their x1-x4 levels at a considerably faster rate relative to the time the tenured player trains L5 levels at x5 and up.
 
So no, talent points are not  a massive barrier for new players and so no, it really can't be used as an argument in this discussion.

If there's anyone who understands time gated progress, it's EVE players. Unless the player hopped on the eve train in 2003, there's 10's  of thosaunds of pilots that are millions upon millions skillpoints ahead of the newbs.  Like Blaze mentioned, EVE is much stricter in time limited progress barriers. In DU you can have decent enough skill to operate any equipment within weeks.  In EVE you become a very formidable frig/interceptor pilot in couple of weeks, But moving up to something like cruisers/heavy assault cruisers takes months and and to make full use of battleship doesn't happen before 6 months,  and dreadnaught classes take year+ to fly and a lot more to fly well. And we're not even talking training needed utility skills to actually make use of those gun platforms. 
 
In MMO live service space, you're always behind someone and it's a gap you cannot erase, and that's perfectly fine, as long as there is a niche into which new players can squeeze.  A good example of that in eve is small gangs.  A well organized gang of 2-3 players ( with as little as 4 weeks worth of skillpoints)  can easily blow up a 60mil sp BS pilot ( and they do|.  There's always more than one way  to skin a cat.  If you can't win a fist fight, you bring a baseball next time
 
When you're building a MMO game, cornerstone of which is persistence, you must reward players the payers with the most commitment most, and players with least commitment the least. Of course there are genres where this is not the case, lobby shooters being the prime example of that. But that a completely different design paradigm.
 
As for the mythical EVE converts, i hate break it to you, but the lion's share of possible eve converts already tried DU in alpha/alph-beta and very few of them still actively play.  I myself come for EVE background, and i was enamorated with pitch of EVEish dog eat dog world with creative side to it where i can become my own shipwright. Alas besides the shipwright part, rest of ( what little there is besides building) DU did not really knock my socks off. 
 
I've accepted that NQ decided to wipe (whatever form) . Few weeks prior to this whole drama i  finally reached the point in my progression where i could support my piloting/building/shopping habits without having to grind for resources.  However the journey there wasn't particulary entertaining. certainly not enough to be willing to repeat the experience of past 2 years. I'm convinced i'm not alone in this feeling,
 
The biggest problem of DU is not the wipe itself, but the fact that such a large part of its playerbase did not enjoy the experience enough to be willing to repeat it.  In a lot of other MMOs people like to start new avatars for the sole purpose of reliving the starting experience ( even  in EVE).  Don't see that in DU.

If there's anyone who understands time gated progress, it's EVE players. Unless the player hopped on the eve train in 2003, there's 10's  of thosaunds of pilots that are millions upon millions skillpoints ahead of the newbs.  Like Blaze mentioned, EVE is much stricter in time limited progress barriers. In DU you can have decent enough skill to operate any equipment within weeks.  In EVE you become a very formidable frig/interceptor pilot in couple of weeks, But moving up to something like cruisers/heavy assault cruisers takes months and and to make full use of battleship doesn't happen before 6 months,  and dreadnaught classes take year+ to fly and a lot more to fly well. And we're not even talking training needed utility skills to actually make use of those gun platforms. 
 
In MMO live service space, you're always behind someone and it's a gap you cannot erase, and that's perfectly fine, as long as there is a niche into which new players can squeeze.  A good example of that in eve is small gangs.  A well organized gang of 2-3 players ( with as little as 4 weeks worth of skillpoints)  can easily blow up a 60mil sp BS pilot ( and they do|.  There's always more than one way  to skin a cat.  If you can't win a fist fight, you bring a baseball next time
 
When you're building a MMO game, cornerstone of which is persistence, you must reward players the payers with the most commitment most, and players with least commitment the least. Of course there are genres where this is not the case, lobby shooters being the prime example of that. But that a completely different design paradigm.
 
As for the mythical EVE converts, i hate break it to you, but the lion's share of possible eve converts already tried DU in alpha/alph-beta and very few of them still actively play.  I myself come for EVE background, and i was enamorated with pitch of EVEish dog eat dog world with creative side to it where i can become my own shipwright. Alas besides the shipwright part, rest of ( what little there is besides building) DU did not really knock my socks off. 
 
I've accepted that NQ decided to wipe (whatever form) . Few weeks prior to this whole drama i  finally reached the point in my progression where i could support my piloting/building/shopping habits without having to grind for resources.  However the journey there wasn't particulary entertaining. certainly not enough to be willing to repeat the experience of past 2 years. I'm convinced i'm not alone in this feeling,
 
The biggest problem of DU is not the wipe itself, but the fact that such a large part of its playerbase did not enjoy the experience enough to be willing to repeat it.  In a lot of other MMOs people like to start new avatars for the sole purpose of reliving the starting experience ( even  in EVE).  Don't see that in DU.

Yes and no.
 
That the server tech has its limitations is not new nor unknown. There have been many instances, from very early on (before pre-alpha started even) where NQ has been quite open about that. The problem is that, while known to be limited, NQ still tried to shoe-horn in mechanics which they should have known would not function wel enough to be viable. And on top of that they designed their backend in such a way that it started to drain resources once beta opened to the extent NQ has been trying to recover from that ever since and had to fire their visionary and CEO.

Insteead of knowing your limitations and then building what you know is achievable, NQ tried to consistently find ways around the limitation and fall on their face, losing time and money in the process as they then needed to repair. The lack of long term planning and absence of a project manager to control all this are the driving factors in that IMO.

It's well scripted video mimicking the style,  which we've been accostumed to seeing with each eve online expansion. I'm sure it has potential to get some new people excited enough to give Dual Universe a shot, however it's a gross misrepresentation of what the actual experience on live service is; both visually and gameplay wise.  I would go as far as to say it's coasting dangerously close to what may, even legally, constitue false advertising; especially considering the closing statement declaring "ALL AVAILABLE NOW IN THE ATHENA UPDATE" ; by which beyond resonable doubt, NQ implies, what viewer sees, is what really happens in game. 
 
Despite all the hurdles and false starts we've seen in past 2 years, i still belive DU is unique, has a fair bit to offer, and may yet grow into something truly exciting.  NQ certainly doesn't need to do themselves a diservice by reaching for this type of low hanging fruit.  Sure you may get a few more subs initially, than your would have otherwise gotten with more honest presentation, but quite a few of those new recruits will end up being pretty  steamed,  once they get to experience DU pvp first hand, and those will be the people you don't get to monetize beyond the intial cost of entry.  
 
(not to mention "the" determiner before name "Athena"  as name, is grammar error, unless Athena is, in this context  an acronym)  I'm but a simple forum troll, i can afford the sort of blunder, but for a serious company... not a great picture to present.

That is not correct. As you can take from THIS sheet, your have 10 cores without talents and from there:

13 cores in 33 minutes 20 seconds
16 cores in 3 hours 20 minutes
19 cores in 15 hours 22 minutes 13 seconds
22 cores in 3 days 12 hours 48 minutes and 53 secords
25 cores in 18 days 1 hour 53 minutes and 20 seconds


 
  
 
Again, incorrect
10 cores are instant
25 cores takes 18 days 1 hour 53 minutes and 20 seconds
50 cores takes an additional 28 days 22 hours 13 minutes and 20 seconds
100 cores takes are available after a total of 86 days 18 hours 40 minutes


I'd venture to say a new player really has no need for 100 cores in their first few months so the training time here is perfectly fine, even when combined with other talents. Additionally, new players should start off with a week's worth of SP using a referal code and can easily get an additional million by enabling 2FA .


 

It's well scripted video mimicking the style,  which we've been accostumed to seeing with each eve online expansion. I'm sure it has potential to get some new people excited enough to give Dual Universe a shot, however it's a gross misrepresentation of what the actual experience on live service is; both visually and gameplay wise.  I would go as far as to say it's coasting dangerously close to what may, even legally, constitue false advertising; especially considering the closing statement declaring "ALL AVAILABLE NOW IN THE ATHENA UPDATE" ; by which beyond resonable doubt, NQ implies, what viewer sees, is what really happens in game. 
 
Despite all the hurdles and false starts we've seen in past 2 years, i still belive DU is unique, has a fair bit to offer, and may yet grow into something truly exciting.  NQ certainly doesn't need to do themselves a diservice by reaching for this type of low hanging fruit.  Sure you may get a few more subs initially, than your would have otherwise gotten with more honest presentation, but quite a few of those new recruits will end up being pretty  steamed,  once they get to experience DU pvp first hand, and those will be the people you don't get to monetize beyond the intial cost of entry.  
 
(not to mention "the" determiner before name "Athena"  as name, is grammar error, unless Athena is, in this context  an acronym)  I'm but a simple forum troll, i can afford the sort of blunder, but for a serious company... not a great picture to present.

So ! 

First point, do not hesitate to ping on thread about the Lua. I can't spend a lot of time on the forum, because we have a lot of work to do, but even if I can check on time a week, it let know interesting and even useful threads about Lua   Else I totally miss these thread and reply weeks (and month here 😅 later)

Secondly, so, I do not promise anything, but just would check your proposals about the dispenser API. So to sum your posts :
SetPrice(price) / GetPrice() - I don't see anything against that. Activate() / Deactivate() - There is no state on dispensers currently, you activate ou deactivate it. GetContainerId() - Would be the local id, the id of the container on the construct. HasBatchContents() - If we add a function to get the content of the batch, this functions would be useless. BatchesAvailable() - Can be a bit harder to be done, but indeed could be a nice to have. getPermissionDebit() - No RDMS control on Lua yet, so not possible. getPermissions() - Same as previous For reversed dispenser, it require to add an other and specific element with so a new dev on that.
 
So to summarize, it would be (no promises guys huh 😉) ?? 
setBatchPrice([float] price, [bool] notify) : Set the price of the batch and if you want to notify the player (only if the price is 0). [float] getBatchPrice() : Return the batch price set. setDelay([float] delay) : Set the delay between two batch claim. [float] getDelay() : Return the delay set between two batch claim. setBatchLimit([int] limit) : Set the limit of batch per player. getBatchLimit() : Return the limit of batch per player set. setPlayerBeneficiary([int] pId) : Set the player with the given ID as beneficiary. setOrgBeneficiary([int] oId) : Set the organisation with the given ID as beneficiary. setTag([string] tag) : Set the tag of the dispenser. [string] getTag() : Return the tag of the dispenser. setBatchContent([table] content) : Set the batch content for the table in format {{id, quantity},{id, quantity}, ...} [table] getBatchContent() : Return the batch content as table of pair itemId and quantity. [int] getContainerId() : Return the local id of the container. [int] getBatchAmount() : Returns the amount of batches available in the linked container. [event] purchased([int] pId) : Emitted when a a player claim a batch.
The lack of an entity/portfolio API can be a hindrance to adding a distributor API, to designate the beneficiary. The item API was a requirement to consider the dispenser API addition.

That doesn't fly for me. NQ made the game experience a huge grind before you can do certain things the last year and a half has been an experience of additional limitations with every patch, most of us working hard to overcome those limitations, just to run into another wall that suddenly appears randomly after another NQ patch. That doesn't mean I didn't have any satisfaction in the game, I did have some satisfaction when I reached a milestone in my (master) plan.
 
Let me put it this way, I've been crawling along DU, every time I started to get up a bit, NQ kicked my legs from under me with their changes. The wipe will be NQ coming out with a machete to cut my arms and legs off and telling me that worms should start over...
 
Imho NQ has been hard at work making DU more grindy then is necessary or fun.

Your daily reminder that multiple NQ staff in multiple channels, verbally and in writing, said we would get 'magic blueprints' if they ever needed to do a wipe:
 

 
(1:30) the reason for a wipe would be "(there is) something that we need to fix and there is no other but to wipe to fix it. I don't see anything like that coming... it's something that would happen if we really had no choice..."
(4:45) "we're going to do everything we can so that we don't have to go through a wipe again"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOp9nDzkxpc
(58:26) "It would be a very bad thing to say 'sorry guys, restart from scratch.'" 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai3Kk37ntgg
(15:53) "Everything you build is forever"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD00-V_LKog
(31:58) "Whatever you do after beta starts is going to stay in one way or another... You will get what we call for the moment 'magic blueprints'... blueprints with everything included in it so you will be able to respawn the things as soon as we restart the server. So we don't like to call it 'wipe'... The key thing is the beta is really the start... You can start to invest yourself in the game. We guarantee that you're not going to be losing everything at some point... the universe is blank again, and you have to start from scratch."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syku-NmSg4s&t=1918s

FR/EN
Google Trad

 
NQ 
Il va falloir que vous preniez vos responsabilités maintenant et sans attendre une semaine de plus !
Le choix que vous allez prendre ne conviendra pas à pas mal de monde de toute façon et il faut vous attendre à perdre des joueurs et beaucoup plus suivant ce que allez décider (surtout le nettoyage total).
Dans votre réflexion n'oubliez pas les personnes qui ont crus en vous dès le début et ont apportés temps et argent pour que DUAL arrive au niveau ou il est.
Déposséder les créateurs serait la plus belle des bêtises !
Bonne chance...

 
NQ
You will have to take your responsibilities now and without waiting another week!
The choice you make will not suit a lot of people anyway and you can expect to lose players and many more depending on what you decide (especially the total cleaning).
In your thinking, don't forget the people who believed in you from the start and contributed time and money to bring DUAL to where it is.
To dispossess the creators would be the most beautiful of nonsense!
Good luck...

Although I could live with a partial wipe, I still don't see any reason for a wipe. The pros and cons given sound a bit contrived to me:

New player experience
If an MMO needs a wipe to attract new players, where are we a year later? You would need a wipe every year or so. The challenge is to make the game in such a way you can step in at any time I just did the new player experience on the test server, nice improvement. But I do not see how there being some big bases on Alioth or some rich players in space has any effect on the new players when I am setting up my base, start building and exploring. On the contrary: it gives something to explore and can be an inspiration to new builders in what is possible.
Exploits
Ok, so some players got rich using exploits. How does that effect other players?
The example I know of is the guy that bought 100 warp beacon schematics for 8mil each and was willing to sell them for 700mil. But my warp beacons (I bought the proper schematic) normally sell within two weeks and with a 1500% (15 times the production cost) margin. So it seems to have no effect at all that I can see. Ok, so they can buy more expensive guns. So what? the advantage of that is not great, and most of these cheaters don't even play anymore. Some other examples: gates have a >100% profit, advanced engines > 100%, rare engines 800%. There is no problem with rich people pushing out regular players. You can buy a Gate XL schematic with half a day of T5 astroid mining with 2 guys, you don't need exploits to be able to make it. If there is a problem with the markets, it is not because of rich players, but a lack of destruction. An element once made stays in the game forever, except in PVP and in players leaving the game. That is not a recipe for a healthy economy but exploits have nothing to do with it. It is rather naive to think there will never be an exploit again: people will find ways to cheat and exploit with every change to the game. Are you going to wipe every time that happens? Just deal with it and undo some transactions or kick some players, like other MMO's do. removing schematics will indeed resolve the market issue: there will be no market. The schematics where introduced exactly for this reason. Of course people will complain about the cost: new players are used to games where you are in the end game in 10 days and they don't want to invest time and effort for a 2 year period to build a factory (like I did). Those are exactly the players NQ should not listen too: they are on to the next game in a month anyway. You need to listen to the players that stick around and are willing to build long-term: those are your money-makers.
Partial wipe complexity
There are many ways to do partial wipes, and clean up the database. Not all of them sound complex to me:
You could let players mark up to 10 construct with a flag (like the headquarters) and then wipe the rest and reset the planets: the dynamics for planet reset and construct deletion are already there, and so is a 'tag construct' mechanism, so how is this complex? You could just remove the need for the schematics from the game and - like someone suggested in this forum - set up NPC buy orders for them. That makes refunding people real easy. And you don't need a wipe for that, could be done in a patch. You don't need to split communities if you want to start fresh and keep the current, you could make a gate/portal to a new solar system with its own currency where you can only take blueprints back and forth: that will be a bit more work I imagine, but only if you want new planets. you could also just copy this solar system and rename the current one 'legacy'. 
All-in-all it seems to me that part of the devs in NQ just want a clean database and are looking for arguments to justify a wipe.
 

Let's preface this: I'm a scripter, I own minimal assets in the game, and my main enjoyment comes from scripting. The wipe has a very small affect on me, but that won't change my opinion on how terribly reasoned it is here and terribly unnecessary. 

Kurock's post says it all. They were so, so clearly biased in that post, it's like they already made their decision, and if our response is lukewarm, it will go through.

They ignore major, major points on the pros for the no wipe and partial wipe, and they put the full wipe with the most pros, but they all say the same thing: Simpler. 
Based on how they did the other pros and cons, all they should have said was:
 
Pros:
Simpler for us to do
Schematics are what caused so many people to leave, and they have left. Your comment on schematics probably revolved around the idea that removing them would somehow bring those people back. Newsflash, it won't. They have moved on to other games. Personally, I don't own a single subscription game where I would return to subscribing after so much time has passed. BS you say about a wipe is somehow required for removing schematics. They're just an item.
Complete BS that you say you can't revamp planets.
Even greater BS you say you can't rebalance the economy... do you even look at your in game economy? One update and 10,000 m^3 of honeycomb goes from 100 million to 10 million. That is where it should be. The economy is perfectly, perfectly fine.

As Kurock said, leveling the playing field is a temporary concept that will disappear quickly. It's an MMO. You think someone who plays the weekends or once a month will somehow be on the same level as someone who plays several hours a day, every day, who knows the game already? Don't be delusional, please.

DU is not like a game where wiping should happen. You've already implemented plenty, and many will say too many updates that make it so wiping is completely unnecessary. HQ tiles, tile tax and construct abandonment over time, just to name the ones that come to mind.. Those are systems that work.
DU lives off player content, which is essentially what you're advocating to remove with a wipe. It's like saying: I let you build up my limbs over the last two years so I can crawl, and now walk. Now, I will chop them off for you so you can rebuild them better this time.
Your post is not an unbiased opinion on pros and cons. Fix it. It is misleading. Some people who read it will not think critically about what you just wrote. Who the hell thinks no wipe will only satisfy "some" long term builders and traders... are you... actually dumb? A significant majority is a better word there. You wanna know something? Your wishy-washy response mostly advocating for a wipe is why some people don't want to invest time into this. And it is because you even brought up a wipe. You sour the waters and poison the air with having the idea about, even more so by your extremely biased post. 

You wanna see what I mean by a biased pro/con? Here's a great example:

 
As you can see, depending on where you cut the cake, you can say a lot and steer the narrative, bloating reasons and diminishing others. 
This is, essentially what NQ have done with their entire post.

This is all I have to say in this, post, I've spent enough time writing out the obvious. Kurock said it in a neater package, but felt I should elaborate.
 

I'll keep my opinions about a wipe brief:

I don't like the idea of a full wipe. I've put thousands of hours into building my ship-selling operation. But I understand how a wipe could help. I'm resigned to the inevitability of it. I can deal with losing my money and my ship factory.

HOWEVER, don't take our talent points! We paid for those. They aren't resources. Taking them is basically deleting our character/account. Whatever advantage they provide, we're owed it. If talent points go, I'll go.

And I think removing schematics would be a bad idea. Every player could manufacture everything they need again, and the market would be pointless.

I've seen this statement often, please explain.
 
Because from my perspective, if there's a wipe-wipe, I won't be returning. Actually, I would strongly advise people against playing DU if it happens.
 
A wipe-wipe, won't change anything for 99% of the players in a month. As the same dedicated players with too much time, corp players, RL money, etc. will be in the same top positions. New players won't have a chance in hell to compete with that. In the mean time, getting started in DU for new players will be HELL! As nothing will be available that's player made, at a low price (as it is now). So leaving Haven/Sanctuary will be virtually impossible as people can't build or buy a territory control unit...
 
Look, I loved getting started with beta, but it was a completely different game then. For one, Schematics, for another planet mining or surface ore respawning. You looked at what some of the Alpha players where doing in the first weeks/months and you got inspired. Doing that again under the current restrictions wouldn't be much fun (for me) imho...
 
As for current new player being left behind? They can sell their ore, and it will be bought. Just look at the current ore sell prices, see many Sanctuary sell orders or small sell orders? Would certain people have the quanta to buy that from new players if there is a wipe-wipe? No. New players can/could often pick up nice BPCs from builder characters like Hagbard, would the be able to now? No! Because Hagbard can't produce a dispenser after the wipe-wipe, he wouldn't even be able to buy one...
 
So new players wouldn't be able to get the much wanted resources like specific tiles with ore, that's just for the big dedicated corps. Hell, 99% of the current players wouldn't be able to get to them either, unless you are a highly placed person in one of the big dedicated corps. It didn't happen with the last landwipe, it won't suddenly happen now. Scanning for a new player sounds like a good way to get started, but how exactly would you get that scanner? Those Schematics are expensive! No big corp would sell their scanners before they are done scanning themselves...
 
And if you think that there will be no new player due to the 'inequality', what would happen to new players six months down the road, a year, two years? The only similar MMO i'm familiar with that has a similar concept (of persistence) is EVE Online. When I started EVE in 2005, I was already late to the party by two years. Large corps ruled Null Sec, many have risen and fallen since then, I have never been part of that (by choice). What I have done in the last 17 years (often many years off) is control certain items on the markets or even the market in a certain section of space. The big strength of EVE is imho that even if I've taken off years, I can always get back and pick up my chars where I left them. Doing new things, trying the old things in a different environment, etc. NQ has already pretty much said that if no subscription, then everything not on Sanctuary (and I expect Haven) will go POOF!(tm) eventually. The problem is that people are not trusting NQ enough at the moment that even the Sanctuary/Haven space will be save from deletion (eventually), people are not trusting NQ because they might wipe-wipe again. There goes the whole persistence concept...

whales will be whales, most of those beta keys came from founder/contributor packages that cost more than the all the sub throughout beta. Those keys were never free, in fact in some cases they turned up more expensive than the corresponding sub throught beta.
 
The whole notion that beta key accounts were freeloaders is despicable. For the most part these came from people who opened their wallet to a DU dream long before you could even log in for one of those short alpha weekend tests.  Without them, there would no DU, regardless of how incomplete the game still is all these years later.
 
Post realease alt account numbers will not be heavily affected by paying sub on them.  DU has a very similar demgraphic as EVE. If the game scratches our itch and NQ treats us right most of the whales will happily solder on with their alt swarms, just like they did with EVE. (if don't have 4+accounts in eve, you're not taking the game seriously, and the sub is almost 2x what DU charges).
 
For the record yes, i'm one those with multiple accounts. And no i don't run npc missions, because i don't feel like spending 5 hours slowboating from A to B while watching startrek is worth any amount of quanta to me.  Player haul jobs are good enough for me. And i play mostly solo and i never got any free stuff fron anyone and never had issues with earning quanta.
 
 
 
 

There a relatively simple solution to this problem which has worked for several other games with NPC delivery package rewards, Archeage and Silkroad to name a few from the top of my head. 
 
The way it works in these games, and i believe it would have worked for Dual Universe  reward for package delivery is dynamic.
 
The more packages get delivered in one location the lesser the reward becomes with each consecutive delivery. 
Consecutive delivery reward malus is not local, but global for all players (simulating reduced demand for the service in a given location) 
 
As an expample Thades to Ion destination may yield 8 mil on the first delivery,  but each consecutive delivery knocks off 10% of the mission reward
 
On the other hand random mission location on the other side of solar system will receive 5% boost on the top what the current yeld.
 
Net result of this that it becomes more difficult to serialize mission system with alts, more dynamic world that can occasionally have gold nugget there for sigle account guy.
And more fluid environment for the pipe campers to tackle.
 
Boosts never cover the delivery decay so eventually alll missions are barely worth doing at some point in the cycle.  The stat weights get reset once every 7 days.  Idealy this should happen at weekends when most people can benefit from "fresh start"
 
It has worked pretty well for other MMO's in one way or the other, no reason it would not have worked for DU
 
 
 
 

I believe that wipe mention at the end of patch annoucement was a very clumsy way for NQ to gauge how much of upheaval can they expect if they had gone through with it.
 
I've decided long ago, granted after years of broken promises and vaporware annoucements, that NQ is not getting any more of my money unless they show some cosistency in the way they operate their business. And that latest annoucement stunt is wonderful proof of them being exactly the joke we have suspected them to have become.  They should really clarify this cliffhanger promptly, unless they want to loose whatever little left they have for potential playerbase for their so called "release".
 
I for once, i'm done playing this guess what smells behind curtain number 2 game. Make your mind up, and grow a pair and than maybe, maybe you'll see a cent out of my wallet. Not a moment before than.
 
Started from scratch in DU twice before, 3rd time will be in different game.
 
 

As the saying goes "To every problem, there's solution that is clear, simpl and is completely wrong"
 
First of all, by NQ own admission a sizeable share of crashes, be it newbies or old timers, is still caused by syncing, element lag  issues between client and server.
Bringing environmental damage element life count back would have been conterproductive unless flight model implementation were solid enough
to  declare that sync/element lag crashes are as rare as diamond finds in a septic tank. While NQ has made some progress in this regard, it's still long ways from being optimal. 
 
Disregarding the backend issues, flying in DU, be it atmo or space, already has steep learning curve.  To a new player, muddling through the first few weeks of learing
the ins and out of building and flying a functional ship is punishing enough as it is.  The existing new player conversion rate is good testament to that.  Turning on element
damage will only make the bad situation worse.
 
Veterans don't crash as often as new players, at least i don't (and i carry heavy loads all the time and i'm no Chuck Yeager).  Turning on element life decay outiside PVP will hardly result in inrush of sales. I can only judge by myself, but i imagine unless pilot is a total muppet, the annual PVE crash volume would have been well within single hand finger count.
 
Core limits also put a damper of ship collector audience, which ultimately reduces demand for new parts.
 
On its own, turning PVE element life counters back on would have been a net loss to NQ, from the perspective of subscription service operator.
Naturally it removing elements from the system is absolutely necessary.  But element destruction needs to have a rewarding game loop attached to it in order to be digestable, regardless of the age of playerbase that is subject to it.
 
And that brings us a full circle back to a very old argument, that is NPC rats that can provide challenge and reward even outside PVP environment.  A very few people would argue that EVE online isn't the most dog-eat-dog game out there and without NPC rats it would have never lasted this long.  There were many attempts at no NPC, no quest hubs MMOs over the years
and there's a good reason why none of them are around anymore. 
 
Limping back with from belt mining with 2 out of 3 engines busted with a good story to tell and interesting drop in the hold is sure as hell more interesting than "i burned off random bits while re-entering planet after 5 hours of slowboat" nothingness. Radom encounters along those slowboats would have been a lot more interesting way to remove elements from game.   
 
 

What lore? The whole "back story" of DU is a single A4 sheet, double space, times new roman 12pt summed in the vignette you watch after character creation.
 
Alien cores won't save of break anything simply because there's nothing to break😝.

As the saying goes "To every problem, there's solution that is clear, simpl and is completely wrong"
 
First of all, by NQ own admission a sizeable share of crashes, be it newbies or old timers, is still caused by syncing, element lag  issues between client and server.
Bringing environmental damage element life count back would have been conterproductive unless flight model implementation were solid enough
to  declare that sync/element lag crashes are as rare as diamond finds in a septic tank. While NQ has made some progress in this regard, it's still long ways from being optimal. 
 
Disregarding the backend issues, flying in DU, be it atmo or space, already has steep learning curve.  To a new player, muddling through the first few weeks of learing
the ins and out of building and flying a functional ship is punishing enough as it is.  The existing new player conversion rate is good testament to that.  Turning on element
damage will only make the bad situation worse.
 
Veterans don't crash as often as new players, at least i don't (and i carry heavy loads all the time and i'm no Chuck Yeager).  Turning on element life decay outiside PVP will hardly result in inrush of sales. I can only judge by myself, but i imagine unless pilot is a total muppet, the annual PVE crash volume would have been well within single hand finger count.
 
Core limits also put a damper of ship collector audience, which ultimately reduces demand for new parts.
 
On its own, turning PVE element life counters back on would have been a net loss to NQ, from the perspective of subscription service operator.
Naturally it removing elements from the system is absolutely necessary.  But element destruction needs to have a rewarding game loop attached to it in order to be digestable, regardless of the age of playerbase that is subject to it.
 
And that brings us a full circle back to a very old argument, that is NPC rats that can provide challenge and reward even outside PVP environment.  A very few people would argue that EVE online isn't the most dog-eat-dog game out there and without NPC rats it would have never lasted this long.  There were many attempts at no NPC, no quest hubs MMOs over the years
and there's a good reason why none of them are around anymore. 
 
Limping back with from belt mining with 2 out of 3 engines busted with a good story to tell and interesting drop in the hold is sure as hell more interesting than "i burned off random bits while re-entering planet after 5 hours of slowboat" nothingness. Radom encounters along those slowboats would have been a lot more interesting way to remove elements from game.   
 
 

Completely remove the visual design of the ship from the equation and balance it using what was put into it instead. This leaves players with a free range of visual designs but still allows for balancing acts both from NQs side were they can add/remove points from elements that affects hit probability etc, and also allows the designer of the ship to balance  offense and defense points as well as maneuverability and other ship properties.
 

whales will be whales, most of those beta keys came from founder/contributor packages that cost more than the all the sub throughout beta. Those keys were never free, in fact in some cases they turned up more expensive than the corresponding sub throught beta.
 
The whole notion that beta key accounts were freeloaders is despicable. For the most part these came from people who opened their wallet to a DU dream long before you could even log in for one of those short alpha weekend tests.  Without them, there would no DU, regardless of how incomplete the game still is all these years later.
 
Post realease alt account numbers will not be heavily affected by paying sub on them.  DU has a very similar demgraphic as EVE. If the game scratches our itch and NQ treats us right most of the whales will happily solder on with their alt swarms, just like they did with EVE. (if don't have 4+accounts in eve, you're not taking the game seriously, and the sub is almost 2x what DU charges).
 
For the record yes, i'm one those with multiple accounts. And no i don't run npc missions, because i don't feel like spending 5 hours slowboating from A to B while watching startrek is worth any amount of quanta to me.  Player haul jobs are good enough for me. And i play mostly solo and i never got any free stuff fron anyone and never had issues with earning quanta.
 
 
 
 

I remember this was a recurring topic in the alpha forums, where people would speculate that the slow dev pace and lack of game improvements was because of some major unannounced patch that would radically change the game and make it much better. But the years went by and the "mega" patch never came. So no, what you see is what we get..