Cybob19

idk, what ore I mine, if I don't craft stuff from it, I stockpile it, I finance my tiles through missions, but only in safezone, so I don't have a lot of overhead, which I'm putting aside to get all the advanced schematics i wanted to buy... I'm a slug, like an overly possessive greedy slug with no ambition


When I joined the alpha I tried a lot of stuff, the double wipe utterly killed my ambitions, that shortlived server before the launch was so lame, I played way too hard and in the end something came up IRL and I didn't even get to try weapons on the last weekend, nothing to show for but a stupid stockpile of ore. Then, honestly I kinda forced myself at launch to stockpile stuff, utterly burning myself out from the game, I went at it even harder, this time it was supposed to be for real. Burned out to the point that I'm not even revising my strategies anymore, whenever I have energy to spare on the game I accumulate stuff in case I actually want to play some day, I just know I don't like using t3-t5 because I can't provide them with my robotical daily logins, don't have the schematics nor the talents yet, and I don't want to spend money I could be spending on schematics.


Ugh what am I even doing here. I hate starting over in this game, I've done it too often in too short'a'time, and I suck at/ don't know how to/ detest to ask for help. All the people I tried to lure into the game with my keys went from quickly desinterested, to total disaster one has to throw out of their rdms.

How exactly am I going to half-ass this in a way that reflects how I feel without totally giving up? Daily-login quanta until I have 4 MU... then I might as well sell ore for a while, until I have a scanner a claim, because F* picking up stones and micromanaging the nanopack to get industry quickly, only to be stuck on schematics, AND ALSO F REMOVING SCHEMATICS IF THATS THE MOVE NOW HONESTLY IN A PARANOID AND EGOCENTRIC FRAME OF MIND IT SEEMS LIKE THE GOAL OF THIS GAME IS [filtered] ME INTO THE ROLE OF A MINING SLAVE NO FUN FOR YOU SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AFTER SOME SPACEWRECK DAY1 LOOSER

hehe how depressing I shoud cut my losses just go play another spacegame.

This is a really interesting topic for me since I feel I am quite rich in the game. 
 
I would not mind restarting if it meant the game would be fun, but I feel like the devs have not exactly mastered the game-play loop to make it so fun as to want to do the boring grind to regain my lost wealth.  
 
I think devs should first master the game play loop, worry about wipes later when the game is good and inequality is all that remains as an issue.

"There were an insane amount of exploits that let people get to endgame within the first week, so I stopped playing. My friends and I check in on the game periodically to see if it will wipe. If it does, we'll play, if not, we won't. Simple as that. I know a lot of other people in the situation."
 
 
As I said it's a matter of public perception... I reckon slightly short of half the population will need to see to see this terrible mistake enacted, and nothing short of witnessing the trainwreck will put to rest their fixed ideas. FFS the guy literally admits he threw the towel within weeks.
 
The biggest irony about it how they will litter again, once they drop the game like a hot potato, so in the "long" run a wipe won't even cleanup old trash like blaze loves to tell us.

We're in a sandbox voxel game here with no progressing game content to achieve, which endgame are you referring to? Do you want to build more than others? Do you want to build bigger structures than others? Do you just want to have more quanta than others? It's all irrelevant in terms of the game experience itself.

Yea and you will quit soon after for one reason or another. While wrong, exploits had/has virtually no impact on other players. It’s just an excuse.

I disagree. A wipe sparing Sanctuary would accomplish (almost) everything on their most-favored scenarios.  They'd get to revamp the planets (except Sanctuary), which they seem most interested in doing. Removing resources accumulated doesn't seem to be very high on their list. 

Hello, Noveans! We’ve teased graphical upgrades coming to Dual Universe in Athena across our social media over the past couple of weeks, but we also want to present them to you now together to give a clear picture of what’s changing ahead:
 
 
NEW SKYBOX
A stunning skybox is essential for enjoyable space flight in games, and Dual Universe is no exception. Whether you’re hauling outside the pipes, hunting within them, or trying to claim an Alien Space Core Unit, you’ll fly in the new skybox coming with Athena.
 
 
BLUEPRINT PRE-VISUALISATION
 
The ability to see your blueprints visualized in the game before placing them, and to finely control their placement using keyboard keys will improve our player’s quality of life when deploying constructs.
 
IMPROVED WATER VISUALS
Living under water in Dual Universe can be more meaningful with the upgrade to our water VFX. Whether you want a sub-aquatic factory, to loop your racetrack below the water line, or simply have an internal pool, we hope you’ll like the way water looks now in Dual Universe.
 
NEW WARP VFX
White streaks are part and parcel of space games, they mean we’re moving fast! But, with the graphical overhaul to our warp travel, we hope you’ll enjoy the feel of spending a warp-cell or two roaming Helios.
 
-----------------------------------------
 
We’re always carefully reading your feedback. Do you like the new warp vfx, or the new skybox? Please share your thoughts in this forum thread.

This would make much more sense with the state the game is currently in. seeing how the game started development around the end of 2014 and opened to backers in closed Alpha September 2017 I'd say that NQ's very careful attitude and not being more forceful with the need to wipe and the need to make sweeping changes to even sometime just see how they would play out has delayed progress very much. DU is 8 years in the making and seeing the scale of the game, they are probably 2 years behind what realistically should have been possible. 

NQ has always had the illusion that what they are doing would draw in many tens of thousands, their initial pitch was actually based on "we want to not rely on investors and crowdfund to remain independent". The crowdfunding of the game really failed as the 2.2-ish million they raised that way was spent the moment it was transferred and so added nothing to their ability to develop the game.
 
I have always said, and continue to feel this way, that DU is a great idea, but NQ lacked and lacks the ability to make long term plans as well as know where to compromise early on by understanding what is achievable and what is not. By blindly chasing his dream, JC lost focus of reality and eventually lost his company and his dream. And since the shake up all NQ has been able to do is cut fat and hollow out the game to a level it remained sustainable for players. I think they have always been chasing the facts of reality and never caught up.

I wish, I really do, that NQ would be able to find a healthy chunk of money and then withdraw, pull the plans for a release and actually fix the game from the ground up, adjusting what was ignored and fixing what was dismissed. The potential for greatness is there but the incomplete foundation on which they are continuing to shoehorn in more and more top-level stuff just makes it a house of cards, which inevitably will fall over. DU is being developed not based on what's needed but on how much time NQ has before they run out of money which really is not a good place to be in.

But as it stands, the cards are on the table and it looks like NQ has decided they will make a hail Mary move in rushing to a release with the funding and resources they have, probably hoping that the many tens of thousands they need will still come.
 
 
  
 
NMS has become a pretty string game, obviously Hello gamees has a healthy bank account and also a revenue stream form other titles. The reasons why NMS borked at launch also werenot a bad foundation for the game but a published (Sony) pushing  the release whil ethe game wasnot ready for it. So Hello games both had the funding an dthe talent to hunker down, ignore the bad press and get to work.

NQ is a very top heavy company where the actual team working  the game is a fairly small part of the game. Too many in middel/upper management, directors, "senior" this or that, "so and so lead" .. 

I have no doubt the devs at NQ do what they can with te tools they have but the interests and agendas of the levels above them I can see hinder that effort more than aiding it.

If NQ would push the actual development of DU to Montreal and focus Paris on theyr "new ploject", that might actually be a good start but I think they are too late to right the ship and will just run into the wall that is their (no doubt allready set as a fixed point) release date fo rthe game. DU will realease not ready but in the state it is in at that time with whatever not being complete pushed out beyond that point..

Yeah I'm sure you've been exclusively playing games where progress is gated by timers that can not be completed in an evening gaming session, for 30 years. Go cry in a corner but spare me the protestant work ethics.
 
 
 
I don't care if some got rich illegitimately, because like 4 days into launch there were allready huge balancing issues and I made a conscious choice back then to focus on my progress and what I can do, and that I'm not going to put it in question everytime there is a new ooopsie.

Yeah I'm sure you've been exclusively playing games where progress is gated by timers that can not be completed in an evening gaming session, for 30 years. Go cry in a corner but spare me the protestant work ethics.
 
 
 
I don't care if some got rich illegitimately, because like 4 days into launch there were allready huge balancing issues and I made a conscious choice back then to focus on my progress and what I can do, and that I'm not going to put it in question everytime there is a new ooopsie.

Nobody will argue against DU needing more new players.
 
But what we are questioning is how wise it for NQ to burn bridges with veteran players and generate even more negativity, just to try and increase the chance of getting more new players to join in the short run.
 
And some of us worry that this will actually hurt NQ in the long run, since the game is not in a state that will be able to keep the new players for long. So what is left when NQ has angered the veterans and is unable to keep new players interested at the same time?
 
To me this has a lot of similarities with 0.23, where the idea behind it wasn't necessarily bad. But is was so badly executed, that it hurt the game much more then it improved it and never fully recovered afterwards.

I hope NQ hasn't forgotten about this. I still want to get my t-shirt and my pets^^

Thankfully NQ isn't operating out of Germany and or under its jurisdiction?
 
But yeah, I only played DU because it billed itself as a Persistent MMO. Charging a monthy sub... so to me it was 'launched' as a service, even if still in Beta. 
 
Being a persistent MMO is one of the only things that separates it from soooo many other games. Second to the scripting language, and voxel system. Beyond that the features are lacking compared to NMS, Avorian, Space Engineers, Elite, empyerion, etc.. where they don't have those key features that make DU unique but are still in the space games genere.  All of which I love, but keep coming back to DU for what makes it unique. 
 
I don't think NQ is done with massive game changes, even after release they may need to revamp a system and be arguably back at the same technical point where a wipe is the easy option....
 
We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard. -JFK 
 
Persistenance
 
adjective 1. continuing firmly or obstinately in a course of action in spite of difficulty or opposition.

Yeah I'm sure you've been exclusively playing games where progress is gated by timers that can not be completed in an evening gaming session, for 30 years. Go cry in a corner but spare me the protestant work ethics.
 
 
 
I don't care if some got rich illegitimately, because like 4 days into launch there were allready huge balancing issues and I made a conscious choice back then to focus on my progress and what I can do, and that I'm not going to put it in question everytime there is a new ooopsie.

Yeah I'm sure you've been exclusively playing games where progress is gated by timers that can not be completed in an evening gaming session, for 30 years. Go cry in a corner but spare me the protestant work ethics.
 
 
 
I don't care if some got rich illegitimately, because like 4 days into launch there were allready huge balancing issues and I made a conscious choice back then to focus on my progress and what I can do, and that I'm not going to put it in question everytime there is a new ooopsie.

Yeah I'm sure you've been exclusively playing games where progress is gated by timers that can not be completed in an evening gaming session, for 30 years. Go cry in a corner but spare me the protestant work ethics.
 
 
 
I don't care if some got rich illegitimately, because like 4 days into launch there were allready huge balancing issues and I made a conscious choice back then to focus on my progress and what I can do, and that I'm not going to put it in question everytime there is a new ooopsie.

I don't care what others got thru exploits. I played legit grinded legit killed ships legit and don't feel like I was left behind or was not competitive in PvP. What I do care about is that the 2 years grind would be made a waste of time. What others got thru exploits was negated by anyone running missions. These were nerfed to the ground and no serious Missionrunner considers still fly any mission anymore. That means also no more Hauler kills for any PvP guy the rest besides missions can be warped. A surplus of sz roids and MU took away the need to go rare exotic roids for ores reduced chance for fights and kills for PvP players once again. So if you are a PvP player how would you feel if they take you earned kills in form of a graveyard away do you think that is fair ? Scripters can be day one selling scripts, Builders can sell BP. Just the progress of those that mined fought and traded is taken away. Once again is that fair?

It really seems like the only thing that a wipe will accomplish is creating a buzz around the fact that they're doing it.  Everything else could be accomplished without a wipe, or isn't actually going to be accomplished anyway.
 
If they give out "magic blueprints" it will hugely benefit some people, and randomly penalize other people depending on how they do it, and how much notice they give.  And giving less notice will only punish trusting people and benefit people who saw it coming.  Either way, not a "fresh start" just a new mess.
 
If they wipe everything else but let people keep all their Blueprints it's a huge hit to ship builders, who sold their designs only to have one side of the transaction wiped, while everyone gets to keep the other side.
 
But if they only let people keep Core Blueprints it's a huge hit to anyone who has a collection of ships or designs that they don't want to lose, some of which they might not be able to buy again after the wipe.  NQ just outright deleting all those Blueprints isn't going to go over well.
 
And if the only thing it achieves is a short term bump in new players, it just feels like they are monetizing wiping my progress.
 
 

Would talent points be preserved? That's really the only thing I can't live without--YEARS of accumulating talent points.
 
If those were set to zero, I'd never come back.

Our new system map overhaul gives powerful new tools to players in visualizing the Helios system. You can read about this new Athena update feature below!

OVERVIEW
 
Players can now see and navigate around the entire system map laid out to scale in three dimensions.  

 
Setting a Warp Point will no longer replace your current destination. Players may now set a destination waypoint separately to a warp-specific waypoint.  
Space resources such as the Alien Core Units are accessible through the map.   
We’ve added a better organized menu that opens quicker and has a more useful filter system in the top-left menu, allowing players to filter items on the map by name, owner, or construct type.  

 
Players can see coordinates displayed in real time as they move the target around the map, allowing for precise copying of coordinates, position input and bookmark creation.  
THE CONTROLS
 
You can freely move around the map, rotate it by holding left click, pan around horizontally by holding left + right click and pan vertically by holding right click. You can zoom by scrolling your mouse wheel. You can also reset your view back to default with a button in the top menu.  
You can toggle display settings using the associated button in the top panel, such as the target plane or the safe zones. This will let you choose the amount of elements visible on the map at all times.  

 
You can select any item with left click, select and move to any item with double-left click, and select, move to and reorient the camera with middle click.  
You will also see an exact distance indicator between your avatar and any location (or your current selection and any location, if there is one), by mousing over them. Distances can also be quickly gauged using the grid size indicator at the top.  
Players may set destinations, warp points, open planet maps and more from the menu on the top-right of the map when selected. These actions are also served through contextual menus displayed on bodies in the map.  
----------------------------------------

As always, we’d like to hear from you. How do you like the new map? Will it have an impact on your game? Please let us know here.
 

I don't believe in my earlier proposals anymore. It doesn't matter if they find a totally acceptable compromise. There are too many who couldn't see it as a compromise, nothing short of a total wipe will satisfy a large chunk of the "player"-"base", and for some I don't even believe deleting LUA out of people's notepads could satisfy their delusions of purity. After a wipe they will understand how their expectations had no correlation with the outcome, and sizzle out. Probably won't even admit to themselves they actually didn't care that much, and if anything blame NQ, more likely just drop the game for a newer toy without giving another thought to DU... "tHe EcOnOmY iS bRoKeN" will be the final verdict, with no further elaboration of what that's supposed to mean, and what crackpot expectations go into "the economy not being broken".


And in the end I won't blame NQ, all they needed was time to work, and patience on our part. I don't know why they would be so stupid as to open this pandora's box, but I can only assume they lack confidence in being able to not be outcheesed in a partial wipe. It doesn't matter, everything that follows is inevitable.

Game launch - that's generally the time when access is given to the general public.
Does the general public have access to DU? Yes - I'm a paying customer since May 2021.

The "game launch" you speak of is just a marketing ploy. It is not the grand opening of the flood gates to the millions of eagerly awaiting enthusiasts who did not manage to secure a limited spot in a closed beta. In other words, few players are waiting to jump to DU when it "launches".

For Dual Universe the beginning of the "Open beta" was its true and only Game Launch.

So for the people playing DU right now this "game launch" has as much relevance as does the rain over the ocean for the fishes swimming in it.
My conservative estimate for a split between current players and new players post-"launch" is 90/10. As in 90% of players will be the existing players.

When you see it that way, you'll understand that screwing 90% of the user-base for the expectations of the 10% will be a stake through NQ's heart.

Apologies for the caps but the tone is intended. LEAVE TALENT POINTS OFF ANY WIPE DECISION JUST LIKE BLUEPRINTS.
 
As for my opinion. If you must weigh pro and con list make it so Voxel only constructs survive the wipe. Make a warning pre-wipe if the construct will fail the check just like you did with element stacking.
 
Pro - Builders can keep their hard voxel work and only have to replace the elements on the other side of the wipe.
Pro - Far less Back Lash.
Pro - Closes nearly all Loopholes apart from Voxel but Voxel will be the most easy to reproduce post wipe anyway so economic effect is very limited.
Pro - Newbies can be instantly inspired by the veterans creations of the Beta period.
 
Con - Some veterans will have to dig out ther buildings again.
Con - Nq will have to add a small bit of effort to save the 1,000's of hours of work created by the community.
 
 

Im struggling to understand NQ , and do you understand even your own reason for doing things?
Sure the addition of Schematics was loss of players and not well received, but without a system like Schematics there are no brakes on anybodies capabilities to mass produce.
 
I do remember the days well before schematics how everybody had their own factory, and nobody needed to visit a market, DO note also with the addition of Mining units a world without schematics would be like everybody is playing factorio that is easy mode, there is no need to use the market, except maybe change my Bauxite to Hematite and thats it
 
Also i have been playing this game under the original promise of no Wipe, that was even the reason when some Economic exploits happened some of us requested a server roll back
 
Do a wipe, and i will wipe my account

As a long time regular player: a partial wipe I could live with, a full wipe not.

I would expect to at least remain blueprints, talents and schematics and preferably 'capsule constructs' (maybe without cargo and fuel). I think I am entitled to replace my factory I spend 2 years working daily in building without having to set it all up again from scratch for the 4th time (after alpha, beta pre-schematics, beta post-schematics). 

The idea to remove schematics is new to me, but if we can run factories without schematics that is ok: I did that before and with my talents I should be able to make money. There would just be more competition and a smaller market as more people will make their own stuff.

But I do expect compensation for the years of grinding money and talents together to build up my schematics set. Not sure what I would do with 30bil, but I worked hard for it, and I never used any exploits. Would not be fair if the builders get all their work saved by getting blueprints, and industrialists loose everything they worked for.

It is frustrating that this wipe discussion has been going on for so many months now. I would like a decision soon please, so that I know if I am wasting my time these months or need to go look for another game.