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ChipPatton

My Community Has Withdrawn Our Pledges

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...but eventually there will be trends, leading to a roughly stable exchange rate. At that point, pirates and other industry players will have a good idea as to how long it will take to earn enough spacebux to buy DAC's...

Yes there will be trends but I wouldnt say it will be stable. Because wealth will increase so will the price of DAC.

At day one 200 spacebucks could be a fortune but at day 30, 200 spacebucks wont buy you much because there will be more currency circulating. Inflation will apply.

 

Unless somehow the economy is fixed on a system with a limited supply of currency but that creates a whole other set of problems.

 

'A pirate buying DAC = stealing from someone else.' Is stretching it I think. ;)

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Yes there will be trends but I wouldnt say it will be stable. Because wealth will increase so will the price of DAC.

At day one 200 spacebucks could be a fortune but at day 30, 200 spacebucks wont buy you much because there will be more currency circulating. Inflation will apply.

 

Unless somehow the economy is fixed on a system with a limited supply of currency but that creates a whole other set of problems.

 

'A pirate buying DAC = stealing from someone else.' Is stretching it I think. ;)

I am not saying the exchange will not ever change, but by "stable" i'm thinking more that after 6 months, DAC might exchange for a similar price at 7 months. Players are more willing to part with something if its value is fairly stable, so an unstable exchange rate = people being afraid to trade them = turning stolen goods into DAC not being feasible.

 

And agreed, it is a stretch, but it is as close to theft id DAC as the system will allow.

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The only post this person has on the forum is here to complain about the DAC model.

 

There's no indication that they were ever really involved with the community, nor any proof that they actually backed with very much money. 

 

This hollow threat has screwed up so much it's ridiculous. 

 

Why did we let a person, with absolutely no input into the community whatsoever except to complain about DAC's, determine the course of DAC's in the game? 

The damage is done. NQ made up their minds on that, sad as it may be.

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Why did we let a person, with absolutely no input into the community whatsoever except to complain about DAC's, determine the course of DAC's in the game?

You think the DAC decision was influenced by him or people like him?

 

I think I prefer to believe NQ had this decided before the kickstarter. If you understand what I mean...

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You think the DAC decision was influenced by him or people like him?

 

I think I prefer to believe NQ had this decided before the kickstarter. If you understand what I mean...

Seems reasonable to me, I would have made a similar decision

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Seems reasonable to me, I would have made a similar decision

They want EVE's economy, but NQ showcases a "no risk = all the rewards" mentality.

 

That's not a player-driven economy. that's Pay-2-Win when DACs are not lootable.

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We were sold on DAC's being like PLEX from Eve Online. 

 

If the plan all along was to not have them be lootable, they should have told us that.

 

It changes the meaning of DAC's completely if the risk of keeping them is zero. 

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We were sold on DAC's being like PLEX from Eve Online. 

 

If the plan all along was to not have them be lootable, they should have told us that.

 

It changes the meaning of DAC's completely if the risk of keeping them is zero. 

I was sold on Risk / Reward for the game when I read about the PLEX. Now, the Risk part is slowlly drifting away in zero gravity, as is the game's apparent economy based in zero gravity.

 

Scammers will be reported and banned. Griefers will be banned as well. Piracy? Not really by this point. Being an intergalactic bank-robber? Neither, money in-game are confiremed to be digital, DACs as well.

 

No risk = All the reward.

 

 That's where I feel the game is heading.

 

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We were sold on DAC's being like PLEX from Eve Online.

 

If the plan all along was to not have them be lootable, they should have told us that...

I have to agree.

 

It does not influence my pledge. I am commited to the goals of this game. NQ has demonstrated superb communication with us in the past.

 

That makes this recent announcement all the more peculiar.

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Not disappointed, it just involves more than 'just declining players to loot dacs'. And people don't see where this could bring the game. THAT is what bothers me

Some of us see where this could bring the game and don't care.

Apparently, the fun we will get from the game is different than the fun you want to get from the game.

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Some of us see where this could bring the game and don't care.

Apparently, the fun we will get from the game is different than the fun you want to get from the game.

I bet you are one of the people that find fun in Landmark's stale and static world.

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I find these "We need to steal real money from other people" saying too much... DAC is not the main part of the game... They say about no risk in the game, but players still have chances to lose ships, bases and other. Stop LIE and pull everything on your side. Your EGO is too high!

If you see that as "P2W" - "Bye Bye, go play your EVE and steal money there!", same as you "say" to those who will be upset and will leave after real money lose

 

P/S: I don't really like to say what to do, but some overEGO start cross the line.

 

Thanks,

Archonious

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I bet you are one of the people that find fun in Landmark's stale and static world.

I'm one of the people from Landmark who shared stuff with other players for free.

All kinds of other stuff in DU to pirate and smuggle besides money and DACs.

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I find these "We need to steal real money from other people" saying too much... DAC is not the main part of the game... They say about no risk in the game, but players still have chances to lose ships, bases and other. Stop LIE and pull everything on your side. Your EGO is too high!

If you see that as "P2W" - "Bye Bye, go play your EVE and steal money there!", same as you "say" to those who will be upset and will leave after real money lose

 

P/S: I don't really like to say what to do, but some overEGO start cross the line.

 

Thanks,

Archonious

I'm willing to bet that there are going to be some assets worth more than a DAC eventually. Not sure how intense building a Territory Unit will be, but if someone's got a TU on a very rare material, mining rights on that spot will probably be worth more than a DAC. As long as there are some worthy scarce tech and material in the game, there will be plenty worth stealing.

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I'm willing to bet that there are going to be some assets worth more than a DAC eventually. Not sure how intense building a Territory Unit will be, but if someone's got a TU on a very rare material, mining rights on that spot will probably be worth more than a DAC. As long as there are some worthy scarce tech and material in the game, there will be plenty worth stealing.

But if to know at least a little bit of psychology, a player will be more upset for DAC lose, because it is equal to real money (even it is cheaper than in-game resource). Instant question after a loss: "Why should I pay real money for nothing?". There are arguments "Don't be a noob!", games communities are full for 80-90% of noobs, exactly those who pay for these DACs and other.

I understand those who want DACs be droppable, it is an opportunity for them play for free. They don't care about the game, they care about themselves only. And they continue to tell very nice stories from "P2W", to "ALL in SAFE!"

 

I'm done here. Hope NQ see real situation and understand it well.

 

Thanks,

Archonious

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Please provide a legitimate source for..

 

"DACS can be stolen"

 

hehe CaptainTwerkmotor pink posts all  seem like projected fantasies of what he wants the game to be

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As suggested in another post, I believe that this is a good compromise ->

 

Kickstarter DAC's received non-lootable protection + The mechanics of PLEX from Eve Online for DAC's purchased after launch == A Good Compromise

 

In this way, the concerns about Kickstarter backers losing their DAC's are addressed, and people who purchase DAC's after launch do not get the same benefits. This could also be a bonus for backing via Kickstarter, and in a way would create DAC's that are more valuable simply because they cannot be looted (but are rarer because they only came through kickstarter).

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As suggested in another post, I believe that this is a good compromise ->

 

Kickstarter DAC's received non-lootable protection + The mechanics of PLEX from Eve Online for DAC's purchased after launch == A Good Compromise

 

In this way, the concerns about Kickstarter backers losing their DAC's are addressed, and people who purchase DAC's after launch do not get the same benefits. This could also be a bonus for backing via Kickstarter, and in a way would create DAC's that are more valuable simply because they cannot be looted (but are rarer because they only came through kickstarter).

A reasonable comprimise. I agree (here and in the other thread).

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It's a symbiotic system. If you can't accept that, it's your problem. 

 

I have no problem at all. Just stating my view on the subject! if you think DACs give no extra advantage in the game then why would people spend real money on it at first place? This was true way before we got the announcement DACs could not be stolen. It's a P2W mechanic no matter what delusions you might have, otherwise no one would bother to spend extra 18€ (almost 2 months worth of a sub) in the game for one single DAC that gives you no privileges. Everyone assumes only the ones with less time to play would buy them, but like in any other game, that is not true so there is no symbiotic/balanced system to begin with since some players would have way to much advantage in obtaining resources (both time and money).

Plus, people babbling about how cool pirating DACs is and how stupid people are, would probably be the first ones getting robbed by them...lol. Ego levels are over 9000 and the game do not even started yet  :D

 

However, i do agree DACs should be allowed to be stolen, at least if it had similar terms to what yamamushi proposed. Looting special/rare/worth items always gives that nice special feeling in a MMO. Just my 2cents!

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My guild has withdrawn its support of the Kickstarter because of the pay-to-win the DAC adds in which we were told very specifically on the KS page that DAC was "set in stone" by the project creator.  Some, understandably, will argue that DAC is nowhere near pay-to-win, but our scope for defining a pay to win game is quite specific:

 

 

According to this very specific doctrine written by our community officers years ago, this game fits well within the realm of pay-to-win. 

 

Our guild has had a lot of bad experiences with pay to win and models exactly like this, most notably from EVE where we engaged in Alliance v Alliance wars in nullsec.  After the Plex was added to the game we found the wars came down to wallet sizes as ISK (which could be gained by dumping thousands of Plex on the market) meant everything in a war, from hiring allies, to replacing ships and implants.  Our members are fiscally responsible adults ranging from lawyers, executives, and politicians to labor workers, consultants, and unemployed.  We are a diverse group and we enjoy having equal footing in any game we play. EVE became a cesspool of wallet wars that our unemployed couldn't participate in, and our more privileged demographics wouldn't participate in.

 

Our community's officers asked us yesterday to withdraw all of our pledges from Dual Universe's Kickstarter with the following message:

 

 

And that, sadly, is how we feel and confirmed 19 withdrawals ranging from top-tier to gold pledges (we all wanted access to the alpha and had many of our members donated pledges to other members for that access).

 

If this ever changes we will reconsider our pledges or subbing for the game if a pledge is too late.

 

It's say good luck finding games to play. Because none of them with anywhere near the scope of DU are going to fit your criteria.

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Make cheap DACs safe and expensive DACs risky? It is stupid illogical solution)

Just consider the consequences of day 1, when 20% of the player base starts with 6-20 months worth of DAC's that they cannot protect. The most involved members of the community, who's kickstarter usernames are public and probably their ingame usernames, can be targeted harassed and hunted down for a chunk of their kickstarter pledges. That seems ridiculous right? Hence the distinction.

 

I just don't understand why being able to steal DAC's is so important. A player can inject DAC's into the economy for goods and services, and you can undo their work and steal their goods. Isn't that equivalent? Is that not good enough? If the answer is no, wouldn't it just boil down to wanting to be able to digitally steal someone's wallet? (kek that's too bad not going to happen).

 

Lets imagine a world where you can't steal DAC's (you know, the world as it's currently going to be)

Lets say at month 6, Territory Units are in high demand and are very resource intensive to build (TU's). These are physical elements that can be built, bought, sold, transported, stolen, destroyed etc. We reach a point that there are enough DAC's in the market that people are willing to trade DAC's for TU's. They are each worth roughly the same spacebux, another currency that can be stolen, destroyed, etc, and they have been equivalent for about a month and are likely to stay equivalent for a while.

 

Why isn't stealing a TU enough? You can turn around and trade it for a DAC. The guy you stole it from traded a DAC for it in the first place. Sure, the demand for TU's could go down, or the supply could increase and hurt it's price, but its the same for DACs. The only real division between stealing DAC's vs TU's in this scenario is that one has an IRL dollar value.

 

So is this boiling down to you guys wanting to be able to really mug people in a video game? That's how it seems

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