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Mining today. It used to be better?


ColonkinYT
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Yesterday, once again I was convinced that one decision of the developers killed a whole layer of game content.
I'm talking about mining. And specifically about the fact that mining was removed from the planet, while they did not give adequate replacement in space. When more than 40 people arrive at a lone asteroid, it does not become fun.
Perhaps someone wanted the players to have no problems with lags and performance when mining? But I have never seen more than 3-4 people in the old mining system. And there was no such competition. I was sincerely sorry for those people who flew after half an hour to asteroid. It probably hurts ...
And now why I think that it was a mistake to remove mining from the planets.
1. Mining with mining toit is just a mockery even compared to the collection of stones. Not to mention the asteroids. And the need for planets will soon understand most people. If resources are in space, you do not need planets. Yes, there are interesting resources of level 3-5, but they are disappeared and can be taken out of the planet Ship S Class.
2. From paragraph 1 it follows that it makes no sense to build atmospheric Haullers for the export of a large number of ore from the planets. You just won't collect so much. No. I understand that the total production of many players is very significant. But they do not throw everything into one container)).
3. Because of the above, there is no point in the control of planets and tiles. And accordingly, what wars are we talking about in the future, if there is nothing to fight for. On Bete, large associations of players tried to make blockade of planets. Before the input of units, this made sense. Not anymore. I think that there will be a blockade of points of the most likely asteroids. With space stations and Warp beacons, this will do this and easier and more effective.
4. Atmospheric ships with anti -gravity generators of a large tonnage are simply not needed. They just have nothing to raise from the planets.
5. Dual Universe has become even more unfriendly to new players. Yes, training has become better. But if earlier a beginner could dig ores and sell it, now in all starting areas it is empty as after locusts. Stones do not appear again.

I think that many can add more points.

The only plus is for developers. No need to store data in the database.

In my opinion, this is the case when one little brick that was diverted from the base brought down whole layers of possible gameplay.

Of course, the game designers know better what to do (probably). Perhaps I am too pessimistic. But yesterday I once again realized that returning to Alioth does not make sense ...

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One major reason against underground mining on planets is the huge amounts of free ore available to players.

The problem is that everyone can have a huge factory and produce items for next to nothing (with the exception of schematics). This leads to a collapsing market with extremely low prices and a huge oversupply of products.

Each factory owner can depress his prices by simply digging into the ground.

In addition, there is almost no way for factory owners to buy ore on the market (without digging), produce goods, and sell them on the market at a profit.


It is very questionable whether the current system without underground mining on planets can prevent these problems, but at least it will delay the collapse of the market a little...

 

just a thought,

Cheers ...

Edited by Sarogahtyp
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Amen to OP

 

Yep it was a lot of blabla why to scap it but in the end its a plain simple cost reduction, and if you play a little longer you will see many more.  Features that are scrapped with a lot of poohaa and talk but are seriously only to reduce costs. Or not implemented, just think about the server load for surface warfare, think about that and the latest scraps in features and the only conclusion can be we will not see this in the (near) future

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Sarogahtyp said:


It is very questionable whether the current system without underground mining on planets can prevent these problems, but at least it will delay the collapse of the market a little...

 

 

yep and with this line you just acknowledge the server load and cost issue, there is no other reason. All decisions on PVE/mining/industry in and after beta can be brought back to server load.

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4 minutes ago, Aaron Cain said:

 

yep and with this line you just acknowledge the server load and cost issue, there is no other reason. All decisions on PVE/mining/industry in and after beta can be brought back to server load.

I also said nothing against the problem of server load. I was just highlighting another aspect that plays a role.
There are always several reasons, your "there is only one reason" thesis is a bit too one-sided for me.

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19 minutes ago, Sarogahtyp said:

One major reason against underground mining on planets is the huge amounts of free ore available to players.

The problem is that everyone can have a huge factory and produce items for next to nothing (with the exception of schematics). This leads to a collapsing market with extremely low prices and a huge oversupply of products.

Each factory owner can depress his prices by simply digging into the ground.

In addition, there is almost no way for factory owners to buy ore on the market (without digging), produce goods, and sell them on the market at a profit.


It is very questionable whether the current system without underground mining on planets can prevent these problems, but at least it will delay the collapse of the market a little...

 

just a thought,

Cheers ...

You yourself wrote that a lot of ore.

But because the problem is not in its quantity. And the fact that there are no gameplay mechanics in its disposal (except for PVP).
There are no NPCs that could crash the player's ship. There are no unit upgrades that would be very expensive with a chance of failing.
After all, many aspects of the gameplay for resource utilization are already known. It doesn't have to be invented! organically enough to weave into the existing gameplay.
I'm more than sure that many players could offer interesting mechanics on this and other issues.
Damn it! Even the element life counter doesn't work correctly! But it is the replacement of elements that could eat a large amount of ore. The fact that we have limited it - only slows down the process of overproduction. No more.
And makes the game more and more tedious (resembling work) for many players.

Regarding the production workers ... Apparently you have a very small plant, since you think that they will mine themselves ...

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I can understand that but bottom line when you maker a game worse by removing a feature and one of the reasons is cost/serverload just remember Thats the reason, the added text is just to keep people happy.

 

I work at a billion dolar firm and almost 90% of the changes and projects have to do with cost reduction or added value, the other 10% is safety. NQ is no different, no cashflow no business.

The most simple solution would be a simple thing space engeneers did, make DU moddable But add the mods to the game itself, in short:

 

If you truly want the game to be player driven, why not add a possibility for players to actually design components, features, and everything to the game? Development cost would be mostly on the player side and developers would have slightly more time for other stuff, the same with Game masters, Find some trustworthy people who you can make Game masters and free upsome staff.

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I do like asteroids in that you have T3+ ore readily available to you, which you did NOT in ground beta mining.  I mean, you did but it wasn't as plentiful as it is now.  I do miss the old ground mining system for T1 & T2.  So incredibly easy to get, but due to the reasoning for pulling it, we'll never get it back again.  Ever.   And that's sad.

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And I noticed today that mining bots are not being refreshed.  My normal 2M load of ore sold for 20K.  My fault, just assumed the bots were there.  But at least at Alioth M14, that is no longer the case.  Of course, taxes remain the same.  My 6 hexes on Alioth's south pole are no longer economically viable without now spending time on ships - which I have no talents for given my goal to be an industrialist.  I spent enough of my game time paying the taxman before this change, am not happy with the concept of spending an even greater percentage of my time doing so.

 

Rage pausing for a bit while my head clears.  If it clears.

 

Good news:  Tickets filed on opening day are finally being responded too.  Not with any useful information, but at least they are being responded to.

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11 hours ago, OrionSteed said:

I do like asteroids in that you have T3+ ore readily available to you, which you did NOT in ground beta mining.  I mean, you did but it wasn't as plentiful as it is now.  I do miss the old ground mining system for T1 & T2.  So incredibly easy to get, but due to the reasoning for pulling it, we'll never get it back again.  Ever.   And that's sad.

Asteroids are a cool idea, especially for those who live in space. But we asked for them along with planetary loot, not instead.
In addition, due to the small number of roids, mining on them becomes hell due to frequent pending operations. Not only me. Imagine that on planetary mining you have 40 people mining in one tile...
The problem is not that the players will get a lot of ore. The problem is that there is nowhere to put it. Well, they didn’t come up with and didn’t make the mechanics of draining resources other than pvp.
And forcibly pulling people into pvp is a bad idea. They will leave and not pay the subscription.
The most annoying thing is that there is already a lot invented in other games. But this is for the weak. We seem to be re-inventing the wheel...

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On 10/11/2022 at 1:23 AM, ColonkinYT said:

The only plus is for developers. No need to store data in the database.

If they'd just reset all terrain weekly that wasn't within 5km of a player construct, they could have solved the problem without destroying an entire gameplay loop.

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2 hours ago, Emptiness said:

If they'd just reset all terrain weekly that wasn't within 5km of a player construct, they could have solved the problem without destroying an entire gameplay loop.

As one of the options. This has been discussed by the players many times. But who is listening to us? Or listen very selectively.
As a result, we get a situation when we close one small problem and get several new ones. And there is no complete game cycle. Especially in the specializations of the professions of the players.
I understand that many things must be tested by time. Therefore, it was necessary to immediately pay attention to the experience of other games (not necessarily copy everything. But take the best).

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