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DEVBLOG: MINING UNITS 101 - Discussion Thread


NQ-Deckard
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55 minutes ago, Zarcata said:

Who is supposed to buy the ore? There are then only those who fly many missions who have quanta to buy ore. Will these players be enough to supply all the other players with quanta?

 

The total quanta supply does not really matter. It only is a determinant in the exchange rate of goods. What matters is any player can acquire quanta via missioning, trading, taxing others, or doing services to players (as they should in a good game design).

 

Once the (legit or RMT) mass passive miners deploy their setups, it just won't make sense to even attempt to actively mine. With a fraction of time spent on making quanta, you will afford the same amount of ore you'd have actively mined. Since DU is new, players are fresh and low in numbers, It might take a year or so for the meta to establish. But it'll be inevitable. And it'll get worse when DU version of PLEX is introduced (so mass miners don't need to pay real $$ for their alts).

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26 minutes ago, Olmeca_Gold said:

What matters is any player can acquire quanta via missioning, trading, taxing others, or doing services to players (as they should in a good game design).

There is appreciably more quanta coming through into the quanta system:

- daily log in 
- Mission system

Everything else you list from tax revenue through renting to other players, or selling/trading goods does not generate quanta, it just shifts them from player A to player B.

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3 hours ago, decom70 said:

NQ did the one thing that we, as players, kept asking them to do. Listen to our Feedback and implement it.

NQ might have listened to our feedback, but either didn't do anything with it or did it badly, as we said time and time again communicate BETTER! They are communicating worse.

 

Listening feedback is one thing, going back on things you put to rest previously is a bad thing. What makes it even worse is that they should know that people were acting on that information by spending a lot of time/quanta in that activity. If it was said that they were not yet sure whether they would delete or keep it, we could all have made our own choices. But even then it would be against what was said in the last 15 months about player acquired resources not being deleted if possible. This was possible, just a choice made by NQ.

 

My biggest gripe isn't a specific course of action, but the going back on previous statements which many players based their DU purchase(s) on and the massive time sink it became for many. If I wasn't assured by the founder/CEO of the company that I wouldn't loose my stuff when they leave beta, I would never have started playing/paying the game in the first place. And many trolls here, I suspect that often they do not play , if ever (for some reason you can create accounts on the forum without an actual DU account attached), keep screaming for a complete wipe. When NQ goes back on a major point like that, it scares me! Especially when I just resubbed four accounts for another year.

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34 minutes ago, Zarcata said:

There is appreciably more quanta coming through into the quanta system:

- daily log in 
- Mission system

Everything else you list from tax revenue through renting to other players, or selling/trading goods does not generate quanta, it just shifts them from player A to player B.

 

I'm not talking about quanta supply generation. As I said, total supply does not matter as long as there is money in the system that we can exchange.  Yes it does come from logins and missions. There is enough money.

 

I am talking about ways of making quanta from a player's perspective. The player will rather do to these activities and buy ore from passive miners, rather than active mining.

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17 minutes ago, Cergorach said:

If I wasn't assured by the founder/CEO of the company that I wouldn't loose my stuff when they leave beta, I would never have started playing/paying the game in the first place.

 

No one ever said that. There is no guarantee you will not need to start over, with blueprints of your constructs and possibly talentpoints returned to the TP pool. That is the "Not lose your stuff" thath JC has always talked about and as he is now gone, NQ woud really not have an obligation to honor that, even if I expect they will when they wipe, which they will at least once sometime between now and release I am sure.

Frankly, Demeter was possibly their best opportunity so far to wipe. At the same time I am fairly sure they will have some more Demeter sized surprises for us over the course of the next year.

 

 

 

  

2 minutes ago, Olmeca_Gold said:

I am talking about ways of making quanta from a player's perspective. The player will rather do to these activities and buy ore from passive miners, rather than active mining.

pretty much, yes.. and this is where goldsellers will come in.. 

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14 minutes ago, Cergorach said:

NQ might have listened to our feedback, but either didn't do anything with it or did it badly, as we said time and time again communicate BETTER! They are communicating worse.

 

Listening feedback is one thing, going back on things you put to rest previously is a bad thing. What makes it even worse is that they should know that people were acting on that information by spending a lot of time/quanta in that activity. If it was said that they were not yet sure whether they would delete or keep it, we could all have made our own choices. But even then it would be against what was said in the last 15 months about player acquired resources not being deleted if possible. This was possible, just a choice made by NQ.

 

My biggest gripe isn't a specific course of action, but the going back on previous statements which many players based their DU purchase(s) on and the massive time sink it became for many. If I wasn't assured by the founder/CEO of the company that I wouldn't loose my stuff when they leave beta, I would never have started playing/paying the game in the first place. And many trolls here, I suspect that often they do not play , if ever (for some reason you can create accounts on the forum without an actual DU account attached), keep screaming for a complete wipe. When NQ goes back on a major point like that, it scares me! Especially when I just resubbed four accounts for another year.

There has already been quanta reset.
There has also been a reset of the core limit (I lost a lot of things there) and there will now be a reset or limit on the number of territories a player has acquired (I will lose billions of quanta that I paid for the territorial revenue there).

There are a lot of unfair things in the game, and I think every player has at least once found that they didn't like something about it.

Do I like it? NO! But by now I expect everything, so at least I can't be surprised. I would also like to see better communication with NQ and at the same time compensation for players who lose something because of the changes, at least for those players who have a real subscription and not for those who are sitting on free beta keys.

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5 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:

Demeter was possibly their best opportunity so far to wipe. At the same time I am fairly sure they will have some more Demeter sized surprises for us over the course of the next year.

In the last video I rather had the feeling that there is nothing after demeter that would really be great for players as content. the only thing that was mentioned quickly there were more missions, after that there was only stuttering and reflections. If there really was content in the planning or implementation stages, they would have at least mentioned something new and interesting to give players hope, a ray of hope.

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6 minutes ago, Zarcata said:

There has already been quanta reset.
There has also been a reset of the core limit (I lost a lot of things there) and there will now be a reset or limit on the number of territories a player has acquired (I will lose billions of quanta that I paid for the territorial revenue there).

There are a lot of unfair things in the game, and I think every player has at least once found that they didn't like something about it.

Do I like it? NO! But by now I expect everything, so at least I can't be surprised. I would also like to see better communication with NQ and at the same time compensation for players who lose something because of the changes, at least for those players who have a real subscription and not for those who are sitting on free beta keys.

So my Keys was not free, I bought them with my Patron package.

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24 minutes ago, DontPanic said:

So my Keys was not free, I bought them with my Patron package.

 

Actually, your Alpha and/or Beta keys are perks of the package, what you paid for effectively was a preorder of DAC ;) ..

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I know there is a lot of favouring of scans getting cleared for Demeter, but the reason to keep them was a good idea too, since it gives the casual player an equal chance to get good tiles. I would love to hear what made you change your original position on the matter.

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NQ next time you announce a decision that affects current game play, please keep in mind that players will act on that decision, sometimes immediately.

 

When the first decision was announced that scans would be kept, players were faced with a difficult decision: either go out scanning or use the remaining time before Demeter to mine as much as possible. It was a choice available to everyone.

 

Many of us chose to forego the short-term benefit of mining and went out scanning instead (which would give a long-term benefit).

The subsequent decision to reverse the original decision invalidated all the work we had done since the first decision, and we also lost the opportunity to do something productive with that time we'd spent. Effectively delivering a double blow...

 

A decision to delete scans made before the first announcement would have been perfectly justifiable.

 

However, including the scans made after the first announcement is not justifiable. Everybody had the same info at that point, there was no pre-existing advantage.

 

Please consider excluding the post-announcement scans from the deletion that's coming...

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On 11/16/2021 at 4:27 PM, NQ-Deckard said:

Hello Noveans,

 

We'd like to hear your feedback on the latest Devblog about Mining Units.

Of course, everyone understands that you want to keep many thousands of scans because it took hundreds or even thousands of hours of time. 
However, it is also the case that T5 is pretty much completely in the hands of a few players/organizations and T4 for the most part. Or is it?
If the scans remain, no new player can ever find T5 and only sparsely T4.
If they are deleted, everyone has again all chances to find all ores.
Unfortunately, NQ had announced that the scans should remain valid. If I assume "equal right for all", then they just have to delete the scans. I have around 1000 scans. Too bad about that, but it's fair.

To really say something about the MUs, I have to play around with them for a while to be able to judge their usefulness. But I don't assume that NQ made it too easy. I liked mining, but it also took a lot of time, which I didn't have for voxel design. Now it will be different. A new challenge that will certainly change the way I play. I'm positively excited for what's to come! 

 

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On 11/16/2021 at 9:27 AM, NQ-Deckard said:

Hello Noveans,

 

We'd like to hear your feedback on the latest Devblog about Mining Units.

 

This is a list of changes that must happen to make this patch work going forward.

 

Orgs:

  • Orgs should be given Population Caps / to limit the damage they can do to the game.
  • Org Exp Caps for specific talent trees to create a well balanced organization similar to a salary cap for hockey/sports teams in order for Orgs to be forced to choose who they want to keep, axe, or bring in.
  • Orgs should have Tile limits to how much land they can grab via talents like Cores in how many TU's they can put down and the influence of the game they are allowed to control.

 

Taxes:

  • Taxes need to be based on individual planets/moons and not across the board since different tiles on different planetary bodies are not all created equal.
  • Taxes need to be based on what is actually in each individual tile and not across the board. Being stuck with a T1 ore tile is not the same as someone bogarting T5 ore tiles and reflect the ores available into the tax.
  • Taxes in general should not be just some kind of floating number that is injected into the economy and deleted when paid. Taxes need to go into a NQ master quanta org account and then used to pay for missions to not just creating endless quanta and inflation.
  • Using availability of taxes per planet/moon to fun missions and paying more/less average taxes coming in with a fluctuating average of what they pay out by how many missions are being run with realisitc supply/demand availibility. If nobody runs missions they are worth more or if too many are running them they go down to an average base pay to put taxed quanta back intot he game.

 

TUs:

  • The actual seeding of ore does not actually matter anymore either and making things rarer and sparsely populated makes things worse.
  • This patch should have introduced TUs with Grades (XS-L) and Rarity (Basic-Unique) in which you could buy up larger clusters of tiles (1/7/13/19 ect) with Rarity playing into higher tier ores it adds, Rate of ore gained by rarity, and the actual bonus given per cluster with an imposed total cluster limit like cores via talents you can drop by the Grade each planet will let you drop to limit land grabs.

 

Mining Units:

  • Requiring hundreds of mining units and Tiles is the wrong direction by going with Less=More when it should be about doing more with less tiles and limiting landgrab monopolies vs prospecting.
  • Mining units should allow players to instead of progressing their talent tree to hit pause on talents and use that Experience to prospect mining units individually to inceeae yields baked into individual elements.
  • Or doubling or trippling the output of mining units in general to allow for progression to happen and allow people to actually have more fun playing the game rather than playing an IRS Repo Tax sim.
  • Or there needs to be actual org based Industrial mining rigs that allow orgs to actually generate a realistic amount of resources per hour to play the game rather than requiring hundreds if not thousands of Tiles being purchased.
  • The charge system needs to be swapped out with an active mining function where players use the mining unit to actively mine a 2D surface and find and mine sprite based nodes and make it an active activity or if nobody is there it auto mines.

 

Ore/Seegin:

  • The ore should not be made rarer or sparsely populated with infinitely finite L/h rates we have now. Everyone needs a chance to actually experience progression.
  • Every Planet should have at least the ability to create space fuel with the necessary ore to do so.
  • Every planet should have a spread of T1-T5 ore that makes some aspect of parts and have the ore they need to make those planets important.
  • All planets and moons should have all ore types seeded in regions around the planet so that a planet can wage war against another planet so that certain planets arent better then others. The quantitiy of the tiles with ore or the amount gained on each planet should be the main factor but each planet should be relatively self sufficient.

 

Scanners:

  • Scanners should have a depth range attached to each ore type and ore tier that allows people to scan on the ground to detect ore. If using AGG scanning you can only see what is there below you to a certain extent limiting land grabs if they are just passing through rather than landing and scanning especially if they are using ships that cant fly unless they use AGG.
  • Scanners should also require the Mining Charges since it deals with mining to opperate the scanners so that it limits land grabs by only scanning 10 tiles every 35 hours since it is part of mining.
  • Asteroid scanners should also rely on auto mining charges to cut down on the number of asteroids you can mine every 35 hours since it is part of mining.

 

Sinks:

  • Property Tax works to an extent but it should be dialed back by at least 50%
  • Destructive Elements should be re-introduced to keep the economy flowing now that resources are unlimited.
  • Usage of Elements should cause damage as a slow dot for engines, AGG, hoverpads, Warp Drives, hoverpads, industry elements, and even miners where they constantly run or while they are being used in either a form of overheating causing damage or a wear and tear baseed sink.
  • Single use damage sink where if you use a door, seat, screen, etc it causes a small amount of damage each time that should require repairs every once in a while.

 

Missions:

  • Using the Tax apparatus as a NQ master Org quanta bank account per planet as the driver for missions and use supply/demand surplus to pay base price or paying more beased on taxes collected.
  • Making missions driven on actual work orders on collected taxes like getting paid to mine ore, then work orders for industrialists to make specific items, then creating transport missions of actual items to mission locations (markets that are understocked), and also paying PvPers to fly escorts, and also PvP missions to intercept those resources.
  • Typing the Market Bids/Deliveries to the missions to the work order system/Mission System.

 

Talents:

  • Clone the Talent system and add a new talent tab for an Organization Talent System with its own experience pool called "Research Points".
  • Every player would have an independent personal Tab but in whatever Org you are in the individual Org Research Contribution would be added together in what individual Org Perks they want to research that makes it so if you change orgs it deduct the research from the old org and applies it to the new one.
  • Org Research should be for things like prospecting (improving ore outputs on tiles for each type of ore), Core/TU limits, Caps (pop/exp caps by exp tree), Industry (Element caps, processing boosts, output boosts), and whatever else is needed.

 

Loyalty Program / Login Bonus:

  • Every Consecutive Day you log in the L/H output on all ores increases by 1 with no upward limit. If you dont log in the bonus is reset.
  • Every Day you log in you get additional Rewards like Elements, Skins, Voxel boxes, Rations, Gas Cards, Etc that rotate each month or some kind of Loyalty credit version of quanta that can be used to choose what sorts of supplies or rations you want.
  • Consecutive Logins reduce Tax rates by 0.01% with some kind of upward limit.

 

At best Demeter is a progressio/economy killer that adds a major grief loop tax treadmiill that is unequally distributed between planets and moons where the ore is worth more the further you go out.

 

If taxes are adjusted to reflect what planet/moon its on and what is in the tile and the ore rates are adjusted to give more ore than 1 L container every 37 days with 210 L/H being the best I have seen yet and every higher tier being abysmally worse and getting a box of T5 ore per year will kill off any chance of war or progression past T1-2 if this stands.

 

Without higher ore yields or adding some 2D active mining game for mining units instead of just auto mining and charges when it should be based on degradation through use that requires scrap to heal the unit since damage does essentially the same thing in efficiency of Elements anyhow making ore worth more than flooding the market with ore nobody needs since there is no elements leaving the game, being damaged through wear and tear or user error that will grind the economy to a halt.

 

With infinite ore and at the same time imposing huge limits with no other sink than a money treadmill and a mission system that just adds quanta to the game making inflation worse rather than being tied directly to the Taxes collected, infinitely limited ore coming in, and no elements going out of the game or at the very least requiring repairs for constantly running elements or boards running scripts. 

 

It sets up a situation where few will actually be able to do anything in the game, afford anything in the game, force people to sell T1 ore for practically nothing to pay taxes, consumables skyrocketing, and nobody but megaorgs able to fight or do anything once they finish scanning until they are allowed to steamroll the server once territory wars are rushed into the game.

 

@NQ-Deckard

 

This is what I want to drive home to you even if you ignore everything I posted above this.

 

Dual Universe is not two Universes Dueling its one solar system fighting itself and has gone off the rails so far from whatever Civ Building Distopia JC origionally set out to build. What you failed to understand in conceptualization of this game was that it needed two solar systems fighting as opposing factions and not one Solar system fighting itself or adding solar systems to fight over after they destroyed the origonal one or subsiquent solar systems after that.

 

And lastly, You cite that Demeter was needed because of data costs of all the holes we made and then double down on world geometry complexity coupled with then adding vertex complexity backfilled with voxel limitations and at the same time drop taxes to further limit territories from building since the taxes create a grief loop leading to territory defaults that allow people to tear down and loot what people have built. Then compound all that with adding all the ore we were mining that needed to go back in as Voxel based asteroids.

 

I suggest you keep the world geometry we have now, nix the vertex tool since people can learn to do voxelmancy any time they want, simplify effects, and drop another clone of this solar system that opposes this one and bind people to factions that allow for FFA combat in those opposing solar systems except for the Alioth trinity bubble.

 

If you chose to free up all the red tape you are adding here to allow people to come together under a faction of orgs on each side with proper resource sinks based on destructible elements, wear and tear, and doubled/trippled the ore output, and minimized taxes you might still be able to turn this game around and actually attract PvP players back to the game rather than having everyone fighting each other for no purpose or trying to figure out how to make Territory Wars work unless you make planets factions and restrict residency to what planet your bound to but still with the way ore is seeded its setting up a disaster since ore is seeded wrong.

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them canadien winters mus  be real hard on the nq stuff keepin all these dumpsterfires burning  and keep tryin to start new ones...

At this stage ther aint much left of DU to burn, so they need more of your money too  :D ,

you couldnt make this shit up if ye tried!!!

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I'm confused, Will there be tax on a hex if it is not mined?

 

What is happening with regards to the HQ tiles?

 

How many tax-free HQ tiles can we have?

And where can we have them?

 

If all tiles outside sanctuary are taxed then it really will limit the game hugely for people who are in the game just to build nice things.

 

Perhaps anyone who has created something amazing to look at and explore could list their locations so that we can visit them before they disappear as taxes are introduced, please?

 

 

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Hi DU citizens and NQ developers

 

What really made me appreciate DU was its realistic features, like what you mine goes away and does not keep replenishing magically, realistic physics, ship building, destruction, etc. Now DU is less interesting for me, as resource part is not realistic enough for me.

 

I see two reasons for introducing automated miners. 

1. People hated mining, which was absolute full time grind. Not semi AFK mining like in Eve online, where you could watch movie and mine at the same time.

2. Digging and mining game mechanics was overloading the DU servers and increasing their server cost.

 

Automated mining units are fine. It answers the above two points. But NQ could have done the following.

  1. Keep the ore distribution structure intact. Not make it infinite, which goes against the reality.
  2. The passive miners would be mining a tile until it is depleted, and then move the territory unit and entire mining rig (minus the static core) to another tile.
  3. The ore extraction rate would be proportional to the ore remaining. That would make mega nodes more rewarding with high extraction rate initially and discourage people from mining in tiles with very low remaining ore.
  4. Optionally they can introduce mining units for the ships, which has higher mining rate compared to automated mining unit.  

This will solve few issues DU citizens have been griping about.

  1. Current scans will be still valid
  2. No need to tax the tiles as no one will be occupying the tiles infinitely unless they have important buildings on it.
  3. It will give additional tasks for the miners to manage and move the mining rigs. It will not be scan once and settle down at the best tiles and end of the mining game play. 

If NQ designers are concerned about entire planets getting strip mined, wasn't this concern there with original mining mechanics? I think there's enough ore to last for few years. After which, people will move on to other star systems, which I assume will be introduced in course of time. 

 

I am pretty sure this idea would have come up during brainstorming of changes at NQ. NQ designers and developers, it will be very helpful if you can enlighten us about the reasons about selecting mining features in Demeter, and reasons for not selecting the features discussed above.

 

Fellow DU citizens and NQ developers, what do you feel about this? If this is viable and interesting game mechanics, I hope there's still time for NQ to incorporate this into Demeter release. I hope and believe it is not overly complicated to make these changes.

 

Cheers

SubotRobot

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1 hour ago, SubotRobot said:

Hi DU citizens and NQ developers

 

What really made me appreciate DU was its realistic features, like what you mine goes away and does not keep replenishing magically, realistic physics, ship building, destruction, etc. Now DU is less interesting for me, as resource part is not realistic enough for me.

 

I see two reasons for introducing automated miners. 

1. People hated mining, which was absolute full time grind. Not semi AFK mining like in Eve online, where you could watch movie and mine at the same time.

2. Digging and mining game mechanics was overloading the DU servers and increasing their server cost.

 

Automated mining units are fine. It answers the above two points. But NQ could have done the following.

  1. Keep the ore distribution structure intact. Not make it infinite, which goes against the reality.
  2. The passive miners would be mining a tile until it is depleted, and then move the territory unit and entire mining rig (minus the static core) to another tile.
  3. The ore extraction rate would be proportional to the ore remaining. That would make mega nodes more rewarding with high extraction rate initially and discourage people from mining in tiles with very low remaining ore.
  4. Optionally they can introduce mining units for the ships, which has higher mining rate compared to automated mining unit.  

This will solve few issues DU citizens have been griping about.

  1. Current scans will be still valid
  2. No need to tax the tiles as no one will be occupying the tiles infinitely unless they have important buildings on it.
  3. It will give additional tasks for the miners to manage and move the mining rigs. It will not be scan once and settle down at the best tiles and end of the mining game play. 

If NQ designers are concerned about entire planets getting strip mined, wasn't this concern there with original mining mechanics? I think there's enough ore to last for few years. After which, people will move on to other star systems, which I assume will be introduced in course of time. 

 

I am pretty sure this idea would have come up during brainstorming of changes at NQ. NQ designers and developers, it will be very helpful if you can enlighten us about the reasons about selecting mining features in Demeter, and reasons for not selecting the features discussed above.

 

Fellow DU citizens and NQ developers, what do you feel about this? If this is viable and interesting game mechanics, I hope there's still time for NQ to incorporate this into Demeter release. I hope and believe it is not overly complicated to make these changes.

 

Cheers

SubotRobot

Yes, I agree

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3 hours ago, SubotRobot said:

Hi DU citizens and NQ developers

 

What really made me appreciate DU was its realistic features, like what you mine goes away and does not keep replenishing magically, realistic physics, ship building, destruction, etc. Now DU is less interesting for me, as resource part is not realistic enough for me.

 

I see two reasons for introducing automated miners. 

1. People hated mining, which was absolute full time grind. Not semi AFK mining like in Eve online, where you could watch movie and mine at the same time.

2. Digging and mining game mechanics was overloading the DU servers and increasing their server cost.

 

Automated mining units are fine. It answers the above two points. But NQ could have done the following.

  1. Keep the ore distribution structure intact. Not make it infinite, which goes against the reality.
  2. The passive miners would be mining a tile until it is depleted, and then move the territory unit and entire mining rig (minus the static core) to another tile.
  3. The ore extraction rate would be proportional to the ore remaining. That would make mega nodes more rewarding with high extraction rate initially and discourage people from mining in tiles with very low remaining ore.
  4. Optionally they can introduce mining units for the ships, which has higher mining rate compared to automated mining unit.  

This will solve few issues DU citizens have been griping about.

  1. Current scans will be still valid
  2. No need to tax the tiles as no one will be occupying the tiles infinitely unless they have important buildings on it.
  3. It will give additional tasks for the miners to manage and move the mining rigs. It will not be scan once and settle down at the best tiles and end of the mining game play. 

If NQ designers are concerned about entire planets getting strip mined, wasn't this concern there with original mining mechanics? I think there's enough ore to last for few years. After which, people will move on to other star systems, which I assume will be introduced in course of time. 

 

I am pretty sure this idea would have come up during brainstorming of changes at NQ. NQ designers and developers, it will be very helpful if you can enlighten us about the reasons about selecting mining features in Demeter, and reasons for not selecting the features discussed above.

 

Fellow DU citizens and NQ developers, what do you feel about this? If this is viable and interesting game mechanics, I hope there's still time for NQ to incorporate this into Demeter release. I hope and believe it is not overly complicated to make these changes.

 

Cheers

SubotRobot

 

The main problem with games like DU regarding voxels were:

  • They made basic tools that could dig 20m tall and 20-30m wide that on a good lag day you could run through the wall rather than keeping the sphere/height at the base and adding mining elements for ships that did the same thing costing gas and quanta to justify the damage.
  • They seeded resources 500m apart further causing more damage than necessary for minimal gains for maximum damage rather than seeing huge mines but severly limited the speed you could dig and made the 4kl nodes give 10-100 times the ore but take just as long without having to strip mine a tile for like 5-10L containers of ore per tile.
  • They never made a world healing mechanic or some kind of algorythm which each patch would fill in tiles that were completely empty or some random chance to fill them in by the % of ore left in the zones
  • Or some kind of re-seeing loop to where whatever is going out of the game is put back into the game so that people 10 years from now could still actually play it.

 

Not limiting the damage, not giving more ore for mining nodes longer, and seeing nodes 500m away with no world healing/filling tools should have been apparent it was going to be a performance disaster since for whatever reason NQ wanted both finite resources but they also have the pristine tile image layered on top of what is actually there since you would think sheering off a mountain flat would make for better performance but since the game still sees a mountain there it actually compounded the performance hits.

 

My main problem is that I actually liked the mining and digging and I get it had to go but I dont get why they just didnt go with some form of a 2D version of that experience so you could keep doing active mining rather than nothing while you wait for charges.

 

The thing is that miners should run on atmo gas and the efficiency drop would make sense if they had a wear and tear system which did damage to the machine the longer it runs by grade (XS-L) and Rarity (basic-unique) and Tags (Personal, Industrial, Military) playing into how much you could gain and how much you have to repair it via Scrap to keep it running and while it does it consumes gas to justify the numbers being more then infinitely limited since the damage to the machine is basically the same thing as the charges.

 

They do really round about things to this game. They say they need sinks like taxes to get money out of the game but had they made mining require gas and repairs via scrap based on the HP of the machine and calculating the damage to it by how aggressive you want to mine it would have done the same thing as taxes without needing tons of tiles.

 

Hell people probably would actually use the HP talent tree for miners if tht were the case.

 

NQ just does not think about things or if they do they think in simple terms.

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I would expect scan range to be irrelevant as there is no longer any actual ore underground. You technically don't even need to scan a tile. If you own the tile you can plonk down a mining unit and it will tell you how much is there (for the specific tier of the mining unit)

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3 hours ago, Torsten said:

I would expect scan range to be irrelevant as there is no longer any actual ore underground. You technically don't even need to scan a tile. If you own the tile you can plonk down a mining unit and it will tell you how much is there (for the specific tier of the mining unit)

 

They could easily create depth ranges per ore or ore tier and intentionally cut down on AGG scanner crews using huge ships laiden with tons of elements for landgrabbing that cant go below 1km to not only see higher tiers but to make everything you scan using that to force people to land and if your AGG scanner ship is stacked for containers way heavier than you can relyably fly with as is it makes a lot of sense and I support that.

 

I also propse that scanners also use the Miner Charges to opperate them to slow it down further since itis mining equipment and should also be tied to that system so you cant scan a whole planet vs 10 tiles every 35 hours if you dont intend to use the miners vs just claiming tons of tiles.

 

I also propose that the Asteroid Scanners also use the miner charges to find asteroids to allow for competitions so that you can only find so many and are forced to choose between auto miners, scanning, or asteroid scanning.

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This game held a lot of  promise and I am sad to watch the suicide pack known as Demeter being impletmented.

 

You have taken 90% of my interest in the game away thus I am out. I will gather up all my stuff, move it to sanctuary then park my ships. If you return ore to the game, I'll come back but till then I am not spending any more money for this game. 

 

 

I am going back to space engineers for my voxel based space game.

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I’m a big fan of this update, but I have one concern:

 

If we get up to 10 calibration charges every day, and we re-calibrate every 3 days, and assuming people will be maxing their number of MU, then that means we will have 30 MU to recalibrate every 3 days…. The mini game looks ok, but that’s sounds on the high side? I mean a bit overly monotonous. 

 

Could a change be made to reduce that in half? Maybe by halving the number of calibration charges we get, and doubling the effect of each MU? 

 

Hopefully I’m wrong and the mini game is quick and enjoyable.

 

EDIT: I guess one benefit is that people with tones of alts will find it painful to manage too many MUs.

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8 minutes ago, Shredder said:

 

If we get up to 10 calibration charges every day, and we re-calibrate every 3 days, and assuming people will be maxing their number of MU, then that means we will have 30 MU to recalibrate every 3 days…. The mini game looks ok, but that’s sounds on the high side? I mean a bit overly monotonous. 

 

 

The mini game is quick, albeit very repetitive or at least I found it that way.  I had 11 mining units over 2 tiles on the pts and lost the will to live just doing that.  Imagine having many scatterered across several planets.  The gameplay is a necessity if you want to maintain a certain level of efficiency but it's not all that engaging.

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