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Addictive to tedious in one move....


JoeKing
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I’m a new player, I started about 2 months ago as a way to escape the drudgery of the current endless Covid lockdowns.
When I signed up for Dual Universe, I was inspired by the idea that I could take the game at my own pace and build a world for me, in the way that I wanted, that I could explore space and build amazing things.  I don’t class myself as a gamer, I’m not interested in PvP or combat, but I I love sci-fi, enjoy escapism and being able to create.
Your game seemed to have everything I wanted, and although some elements were a bit tedious – mining, unrelenting crashes whilst learning to fly and the subsequent repairs to name a couple, I persevered because I was progressing. It felt that possibility was always within my reach, I just needed to do a little bit more, work a little harder, and that’s what kept me reaching and growing.
This new patch has, in one stroke, removed all the joy, possibility, fun and scope for new players like me.  I don’t want to be part of an Organisation – I was sold the idea that ‘I could be anything I wanted to be’.  But that’s simply not true anymore.
I implore you NQ – PLEASE think about the experience for new players, this game had such possibily and was truly inspiring. I have absolutely loved playing it and even though I couldn’t compete, or wanted to, with the big orgs it was truly great to immerse myself in this world.
You’ve created a perfect storm for new players:

  • Building your first ship is now out of reach.
  • Even if you manage to build one, core & component damage now means learning to fly a ship will be impossible.
  • Travelling to and from markets is long and dull with your free speeder as there are no territories near any markets on Sanctuary with a shuttle.
  • Even if you do want to spend ages trailing backwards and forwards, you cant carry much.
  • Blueprints are ridiculously expensive, so now you cannot invest your money in industry to convert your ore into usable money, as all the lower price blueprints will produce products that will no doubt flood the market, have little value, and therefore have no profit.
  • Assuming you can get off planet, you have hours of flying to reach anywhere with ore of any significance, assuming you make it there and back in one piece now warp drives are so utterly unreachable.

I didn’t sign up to a space-mining, economics simulator game -  I wanted to engage with what was sold to me through all the marketing; and that’s certainly not hours of doing nothing interesting to get nowhere.
Unfortunately, you’ve made it utterly dull, with the potential for fun so far out of reach that its honestly not worth the time or money for me.
I really hope you fix this – it had huge potential, and I honestly cant remember a game I enjoyed as much as this, but I think you’ve just shut the doors on new players and shot yourselves in the foot.
I genuinely, genuinely hope you listen to everyone and you make a success of Dual Universe, it is (was) special, I’m just gutted its been ruined for me.

 

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Yep, I personaly feel very bad NQ made new players to pay most of price for their previous and obvious errors (that some of us -- older players almost begged not to do). 

 

Most atrocious thing in this "mass murder of lambs", to large extent its done in vain and not adress fundamental problems.

 

All what NQ done -- is crude delaying action by throwing a bags of re-grind in already grindy game. Most (remaining) players will eventualy claw their way back to T1-T2, some critical T3 and regain all this self-sufficiency so hated by JC, small orgs -- probably make it up to T4. T5 remain for billionaires and large orgs, but not that big of a deal.

 

JC generaly not understand how his game works and, most importantly, how his player base works. He stuck in more and more alienated fantasies "how it should be played".

 

 

 

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, le_souriceau said:

 

JC generaly not understand how his game works and, most importantly, how his player base works. He stuck in more and more alienated fantasies "how it should be played".

I completely agree. Why he has at all cost force players to make part of the market and capitalist mechanisms? That, by the way, to works needs to create unbalance between players: we cannot be all wealthy otherwise none is. So actually how he thinks that this could make the most of us happy?

 

I already live in a world that work in this way, and I do not like. I play a game, this game to experience different experiences: able to build thing and be creative.

 

Now what I got is grind for money in order to be able to buy things... What an original idea!

 

If JC wants us to collaborate, why he do not simple introduce a goal that does that: a PVE threat (alien species?) Or build a star gate to other systems or whatever? Be creative and introduce a community goal! 

 

An advice for NQ (if any even read forums): if players complain about the fact there are few things to do, you just introduce new things to do and build, you do not just make existing things harder and tedious.

 

Thank you for all, but my experience with the game ends here.

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7 hours ago, JoeKing said:

...I genuinely, genuinely hope you listen to everyone and you make a success of Dual Universe, it is (was) special, I’m just gutted its been ruined for me.

 

 

 

This. Absolutely this. I've not been this addicted to a game for over 10 years and now I really don't want to play it. It's a huge shame.

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6 hours ago, Vanquish383 said:

I completely agree. Why he has at all cost force players to make part of the market and capitalist mechanisms? That, by the way, to works needs to create unbalance between players: we cannot be all wealthy otherwise none is. So actually how he thinks that this could make the most of us happy?

 

I already live in a world that work in this way, and I do not like. I play a game, this game to experience different experiences: able to build thing and be creative.

Yes! Hell yes! Exactly. I do not play the game to be a space beggar and work hard on low-paid and super-boring work (mining) for long and long hours and days. No thanks, this is enough for me in real life. I played the game for fun. For build a factory, produce modules, build ships, travel. I hate mining, but I did it for my own needs. But now I can ONLY do mining. And nothing else. Haha, seriously? Play the game with yourself NQ, im out.

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8 hours ago, JoeKing said:

 

  • Blueprints are ridiculously expensive, so now you cannot invest your money in industry to convert your ore into usable money, as all the lower price blueprints will produce products that will no doubt flood the market, have little value, and therefore have no profit.

 

If all blueprints would be "lower price blueprints" then the same will and had in past happened to all goods.

You are not supposed to build high end items after 2 months when playing solo in MMO.

 

I agree there is a missing content that people can do other than stupid boring mining to bring money. At least PVE patch is supposed to be next, content I wait for (PVP) is 2 patches away....

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21 minutes ago, XKentX said:

You are not supposed to build high end items after 2 months when playing solo in MMO

 

I agree there is a missing content that people can do other than stupid boring mining to bring money [...]

 

I totally agree.  NQ should then introduce some real high-end content like:

  • XXL Space engine
  • XL Atmo engines
  • A more expensive Warp drive: less speed but more warp cell efficient 
  • Mining vehicles and tools
  • wheel vehicles
  • Stargates to other systems

or whatever. Things that could be build by eventually by organizations or by collaborating (if this is the real goal of NQ). In this way people will be busy keep doing what they enjoy and NQ would have all the time to release the next steps of the game (PVE, PVP, etc...)

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, XKentX said:

If all blueprints would be "lower price blueprints" then the same will and had in past happened to all goods.

You are not supposed to build high end items after 2 months when playing solo in MMO.

 

I agree there is a missing content that people can do other than stupid boring mining to bring money. At least PVE patch is supposed to be next, content I wait for (PVP) is 2 patches away....

That wasnt the point I was making,  I meant that most blueprints are totally out of reach of new players. I dont/didnt expect to be able to build anything high-end for a long time anyway, even without this patch.  But just how exactly are you, as new player, able to reach any of it? Ive been playing for 2 months and only have a modest collection of ind units and about 1m in the bank. And that involved a LOT of tedium as it was....

 

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1 hour ago, JoeKing said:

That wasnt the point I was making,  I meant that most blueprints are totally out of reach of new players. I dont/didnt expect to be able to build anything high-end for a long time anyway, even without this patch.  But just how exactly are you, as new player, able to reach any of it? Ive been playing for 2 months and only have a modest collection of ind units and about 1m in the bank. And that involved a LOT of tedium as it was....

 

First, all players encountered the same. It's didn't only hit you. Prices go all crazy now as market is destabilized but for established players I can give you the numbers:

I play solo, been doing A LOT of thinking and min/maxing over various alts etc. I ended up before the patch with:

10 assemblers running non-stop and producing L space/dynamic cores, Warp drives, AGG M/S. 10 assemblers for each of the items I mentioned. (It was popping up like 3 dynamic core unit L/day, 1 AGG M/day)

Now, I am thinking kinda wondering if I turn that all into single L core or may-be single AGG S factory. Not sure I have enough for schematics.

I started my industry at about 2-3 days after beta release, I had 2 lines building container S.

 

The patch made industry "specialization" instead of just everyone building everything without thinking twice because they can. At the end, products will  become rare and prices for product will go up so those who build them can get more value out of it.

 

If you want to do industry, first you should understand that it is now not "just to have it", it's a goal to reach. You can start by investing the money you have into some low level schematic, like, containers or may be even smaller cores. Then try building it, you can start by buying the parts they will soon be at the market most likely OR buy the schematics only for the part that is most valuable OR you can build the part and sell it to the market if they are not there to the other "you" that will build the containers.

 

Again, my advice, let the markets etc stabilize, they are highly volatile currently and you can't do any math atm + the industry units of t2+ prices are crazy high as there was not enough time to build them.

Once the dust settles, make a plan and follow it.

 

I am an ex EVE online player, that game has the most established economy in game world I believe. You need to mine for YEARS there to make a biggest ship solo (and it's not worth it as there are schematics too) but this is the only way of making the economy work.

As to the part that you are "behind' the more established players, that's gonna be only for now, if you do it smart the difference will evaporate with time. There will be more patches etc that turn everything upside down. It's OK for a game in beta.

 

Strong will survive, weak will perish - Natural selection.

 

I take the survival as a challenge, try to predict what to do before the patch to gain advantage. What to do now when all my industry is now irrelevant. It is part of the game when you play hardcore games. DU is not a "casual" game by design - no casual game makes you stare at the screen to fly from point A to point B for balance.

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19 minutes ago, XKentX said:

 

 

I am an ex EVE online player, that game has the most established economy in game world I believe. You need to mine for YEARS there to make a biggest ship solo (and it's not worth it as there are schematics too) but this is the only way of making the economy work.

 

You can very easily get what you want without mining because EvE has tons of other content. The issue is that the only content in DU at the moment is mining and industry and now industry is gated to such an extent that new players are quitting and any future players will likely be scared off.

 

If we had a mission system to earn money, like EvE, or a factional warfare systems, like EvE, or the ability for meaningful PvP, like EvE, or ratting, like EvE, then this industry change wouldn't be such a big deal.

 

As it stands now, though, it was a terrible idea.

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2 hours ago, Anopheles said:

For a happy little extra "screw you player", tripointing three territory scanners is now practically impossible unless you are a hotshot and very precise pilot.

 

Play your own game devs, ffs.

Three scanners?  How adorable.

 

Well if it makes them feel better then know that virtually all of my meganodes have been gutted in size. 

 

Stealth Nerf.

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11 minutes ago, Orangeferret said:

You can very easily get what you want without mining because EvE has tons of other content. The issue is that the only content in DU at the moment is mining and industry and now industry is gated to such an extent that new players are quitting and any future players will likely be scared off.

 

If we had a mission system to earn money, like EvE, or a factional warfare systems, like EvE, or the ability for meaningful PvP, like EvE, or ratting, like EvE, then this industry change wouldn't be such a big deal.

 

As it stands now, though, it was a terrible idea.

Yep I completely agree that all those are missing and your only way to making money is damn boring mining. The problem is, if this change would happen "later" it would be even worse and create even more problems while the change itself(without taking the lack of content into consideration) is good.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, XKentX said:

Yep I completely agree that all those are missing and your only way to making money is damn boring mining. The problem is, if this change would happen "later" it would be even worse and create even more problems while the change itself(without taking the lack of content into consideration) is good.

 

 

 

I very much so disagree with the statement that it could be worse if done later.

 

New players on the forums and discord are quitting in  frustration because they can't do anything.  If new players are scared off then this game will wither and die. We needed content added before content was gated.  If this travesty of a patch dissuades new players from joining, results in people not recommending this game to friends, etc then the game will die. So far everyone except me in one of my orgs have uninstalled and the other org is pretty dead at the moment as well.

 

This change was botched hard. If not in concept, then in implementation.

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Not fun anymore..... looking at training skills for a while.  The idea of flying one of my now glass ships and struggling to repair is over the top.   Now if I didn’t have to worry about game crashes while I am hauling ore.  

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1 hour ago, XKentX said:

First, all players encountered the same. It's didn't only hit you. Prices go all crazy now as market is destabilized but for established players I can give you the numbers:

I play solo, been doing A LOT of thinking and min/maxing over various alts etc. I ended up before the patch with:

10 assemblers running non-stop and producing L space/dynamic cores, Warp drives, AGG M/S. 10 assemblers for each of the items I mentioned. (It was popping up like 3 dynamic core unit L/day, 1 AGG M/day)

Now, I am thinking kinda wondering if I turn that all into single L core or may-be single AGG S factory. Not sure I have enough for schematics.

I started my industry at about 2-3 days after beta release, I had 2 lines building container S.

 

The patch made industry "specialization" instead of just everyone building everything without thinking twice because they can. At the end, products will  become rare and prices for product will go up so those who build them can get more value out of it.

 

If you want to do industry, first you should understand that it is now not "just to have it", it's a goal to reach. You can start by investing the money you have into some low level schematic, like, containers or may be even smaller cores. Then try building it, you can start by buying the parts they will soon be at the market most likely OR buy the schematics only for the part that is most valuable OR you can build the part and sell it to the market if they are not there to the other "you" that will build the containers.

 

Again, my advice, let the markets etc stabilize, they are highly volatile currently and you can't do any math atm + the industry units of t2+ prices are crazy high as there was not enough time to build them.

Once the dust settles, make a plan and follow it.

 

I am an ex EVE online player, that game has the most established economy in game world I believe. You need to mine for YEARS there to make a biggest ship solo (and it's not worth it as there are schematics too) but this is the only way of making the economy work.

As to the part that you are "behind' the more established players, that's gonna be only for now, if you do it smart the difference will evaporate with time. There will be more patches etc that turn everything upside down. It's OK for a game in beta.

 

Strong will survive, weak will perish - Natural selection.

 

I take the survival as a challenge, try to predict what to do before the patch to gain advantage. What to do now when all my industry is now irrelevant. It is part of the game when you play hardcore games. DU is not a "casual" game by design - no casual game makes you stare at the screen to fly from point A to point B for balance.

I dont need to be lectured by you.  I am NOT stupid. I know there are goals to reach, Im not expecting to 'just have it'. No where do I state that I expect to get everything now - I am simply explaining what it is like for a newbie player, right now after the patch.  There is literally nothing to do but mine. It sucks.  

 

 

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20 hours ago, XKentX said:

You are not supposed to build high end items after 2 months when playing solo in MMO.

The prices of high end items also affect new players, even when they do not build them themselves. The schemas must be purcheased with money and money can be generated by mining only (apart from the daily quantas, which are negligible compared to the price of the high end schemas). As most manufacturers of the high end items will not mine themselves to generate the money for schemas, somebody else need to do it for them. That will mainly be new players - either directly as org slaves or indirectly by selling to bots and than buying from players. For new players there is nothing to do than mining for many days or even weeks before they are able to start with something that is interesting or even fun. With such a first impression I would leave immediatley.

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