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BaconofWar

PvP is Broken aka Pay to Win

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On 10/9/2020 at 4:50 AM, Iorail said:

This survey is crap, I can sit there and literally vote infinitely until my finger falls off. If they really wanted an impartial Vote system, they should have made it so you couldn’t vote if you didn’t have a verifiable game account and the voting should have to limited to one vote per account.

What? You can vote multiple times? That's not like NQ to implement a useful feature and then make it worthless by leaving it open to abuse... 😉

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pretty much every other space game(multiplayer and singleplayer) lets you use multiple guns and turrets solo. allowing only groups to be part of pvp is a terrible decision. i want pvp as a soloplayer but i cant because i cant use bigger guns and fly at the same time, incredible dumb and not logical. we play far in the future and you tell me we cant control multiple turrets from the pilotseat? LOL BAD JOKE. "just make friends or join an org" NO i dont want that and many others dont want that too. "hire a gunner" is probably the most stupid argument. nobody wants to be a gunner for random guy and nobody wants to pay a gunner and then the gunner quits because its the most boring job in the universe.

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13 hours ago, toziop said:

Have you watched coffee forever? He has killed many players just him and his alt...he’s a streamer fyi

Yeap. Sure he did. I will actually worry about it if he will rampage through properly crewed, equally experienced pvp ready ships with this setup. As far as i know his kills are mostly just "i have no idea what i'm doing" random guys. Most of them probably afk while coasting between planets so you could probably kill them without alts, just switching seats often enough. Correct me if i'm wrong please. 

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17 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

Can you link this? 

Also, what is your opinion of JC saying the opposite in the linked video? 

No need to link it’s in general discussion in the pinned rules scroll up a bit and read😉
 

talking about an issue and making it a game rule are two different steps . What he was thinking about was probably not what you were wanting other wise why implement the rules as he did?and those rules are only a few weeks old apparently around the same time as the video...

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22 minutes ago, toziop said:

No need to link it’s in general discussion in the pinned rules scroll up a bit and read😉
 

talking about an issue and making it a game rule are two different steps . What he was thinking about was probably not what you were wanting other wise why implement the rules as he did?and those rules are only a few weeks old apparently around the same time as the video...

I hate to be this sort of nerd.....but this is supposed to be a "civilization sim", so whatever...

 

Talking about rules for the sake of rules is lawful-alignment BS. 😅

 

It doesn't actually matter what JC or NQ says about this.

 

If they want to make a rule that's literally impossible to enforce (as many others have explained), there's no point in talking about what the rule actually is supposed to be. It's the same as use tax or anti-sodomy laws. Sure it's the law, but that doesn't make it moral and it doesn't make it useful because it can't be enforced. A law with no possible avenue for enforcement is a poorly written law that's effectively useless.

 

Does someone playing on two machines with a demultiplexer and horde of macros have an unfair advantage? Sure.  

 

Welcome to capitalism where the rich have boundless advantages! :D In the same way, someone can ignore all the rules and keep buying accounts forever. Ban their IP? Buy a VPN. I'm sure there will be ways to buy quanta on the black market long-term. 

 

Streamers that show off their setup won't get banned, either. Frankly, NQ needs streamers more than it needs average players. Again, you can't escape real-world capitalism -- streamers make free press for the game, and NQ isn't about to scare people from streaming by dropping a big ban hammer. Not when they need to be growing subs month over month -- I highly doubt they are right now. They probably see streamers as their path toward growth. Good luck convincing them to punish those players. Capitalism always wins, yo. 

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1 hour ago, michaelk said:

I hate to be this sort of nerd.....but this is supposed to be a "civilization sim", so whatever...

 

Talking about rules for the sake of rules is lawful-alignment BS. 😅

 

It doesn't actually matter what JC or NQ says about this.

 

If they want to make a rule that's literally impossible to enforce (as many others have explained), there's no point in talking about what the rule actually is supposed to be. It's the same as use tax or anti-sodomy laws. Sure it's the law, but that doesn't make it moral and it doesn't make it useful because it can't be enforced. A law with no possible avenue for enforcement is a poorly written law that's effectively useless.

 

Does someone playing on two machines with a demultiplexer and horde of macros have an unfair advantage? Sure.  

 

Welcome to capitalism where the rich have boundless advantages! :D In the same way, someone can ignore all the rules and keep buying accounts forever. Ban their IP? Buy a VPN. I'm sure there will be ways to buy quanta on the black market long-term. 

 

Streamers that show off their setup won't get banned, either. Frankly, NQ needs streamers more than it needs average players. Again, you can't escape real-world capitalism -- streamers make free press for the game, and NQ isn't about to scare people from streaming by dropping a big ban hammer. Not when they need to be growing subs month over month -- I highly doubt they are right now. They probably see streamers as their path toward growth. Good luck convincing them to punish those players. Capitalism always wins, yo. 

Personally I don’t mind following the game rules as written..and I don’t seek to find ways around them. The game is enjoyable for me and most others  as it seems to be going now. Why do some think it’s inevitable that people will always cheat and that we have to accept it? Fatalistic personalities? It’s a game. Not life or death.  Where is self control and being an adult? Where is  being honorable and having self respect? I think JC being European thinks most people have self control and some lvl of self respect. And so do I.                                             It’s no secret: Cheating is prevalent in many multiplayer games. It’s an even bigger problem in a Single-Shard metaverse with PvP, like Dual Universe. Therefore, we needed to put several safety measures in place to ensure a fair game for all players. Our client anti-cheat implementation is one of these measures  
sounds to me like NQ will not rollover either to the cheats

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23 minutes ago, toziop said:

Personally I don’t mind following the game rules as written..and I don’t seek to find ways around them. The game is enjoyable for me and most others  as it seems to be going now. Why do some think it’s inevitable that people will always cheat and that we have to accept it? Fatalistic personalities? It’s a game. Not life or death.  Where is self control and being an adult? Where is  being honorable and having self respect? I think JC being European thinks most people have self control and some lvl of self respect. And so do I.                                             It’s no secret: Cheating is prevalent in many multiplayer games. It’s an even bigger problem in a Single-Shard metaverse with PvP, like Dual Universe. Therefore, we needed to put several safety measures in place to ensure a fair game for all players. Our client anti-cheat implementation is one of these measures  
sounds to me like NQ will not rollover either to the cheats

"Being an adult" means recognizing that the honor system doesn't work in any meaningful scale. People think that "some will always cheat" because that's how humans work.

 

If you want to make a society based on the presumption that people have self-control, that's just naive. 

 

A small minority of people will ever multi-box. It really isn't that big of a deal.

 

However, if you consider multi-boxing cheating, you do have to just accept it. There's literally no way to stop it, because rules that can't be enforced don't work. That's not some childish sentiment, that's basic human nature and basic legal theory. 

 

The OPs point is that multi-boxing is "pay to win". My point is that yeah it sort of is, there's never going to be a way to stop it, and trying to figure out if its explicitly against the "rules" is a moot point because there's absolutely no technical way to stop this behavior. 

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2 hours ago, michaelk said:

"Being an adult" means recognizing that the honor system doesn't work in any meaningful scale. People think that "some will always cheat" because that's how humans work.

 

If you want to make a society based on the presumption that people have self-control, that's just naive. 

 

A small minority of people will ever multi-box. It really isn't that big of a deal.

 

However, if you consider multi-boxing cheating, you do have to just accept it. There's literally no way to stop it, because rules that can't be enforced don't work. That's not some childish sentiment, that's basic human nature and basic legal theory. 

 

The OPs point is that multi-boxing is "pay to win". My point is that yeah it sort of is, there's never going to be a way to stop it, and trying to figure out if its explicitly against the "rules" is a moot point because there's absolutely no technical way to stop this behavior. 

We don’t agree on what being an adult is and I am sorry your life experience has brought you to that conclusion. Adults don’t give up and always lead by example.

if you give up. There is no one to teach young people 

Honor should always be the goal and no one should ever compromise. 
yes there will always be those who don’t learn but you don’t stop trying to teach them.

china and South Korea have found ways to stop this behavior. I think South Korea requires SSN on accounts or their version of it or maybe a country wide game #.   We as adults should never let our guard down on this sort of behavior.  👮‍♀️

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1 minute ago, toziop said:

We don’t agree on what being an adult is and I am sorry your life experience has brought you to that conclusion. Adults don’t give up and always lead by example.

if you give up. There is no one to teach young people 

Honor should always be the goal and no one should ever compromise. 
yes there will always be those who don’t learn but you don’t stop trying to teach them.

china and South Korea have found ways to stop this behavior. I think South Korea requires SSN on accounts or their version of it or maybe a country wide game #.   We as adults should never let our guard down on this sort of behavior.  👮‍♀️

Stop,  I can't breathe, you're killing me, I'm laughing so hard - you're greifing me with your absurd posts - please stop griefing me - have some honor....

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2 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

Stop,  I can't breathe, you're killing me, I'm laughing so hard - you're greifing me with your absurd posts - please stop griefing me - have some honor....

Sounds like a long term in the Marines would help you son...

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4 minutes ago, toziop said:

Sounds like a long term in the Marines would help you son...

You know what NAVY stands for?

 

Never Again Volunteer Yourself.

 

I spent 5 years with NAVSEA and learned my lesson.

 

It's ironic when you post about being an adult when you clearly have not grown up enough to shake yourself free of absurd childish idealism. 

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1 minute ago, Orangeferret said:

Is this satire?

I won’t start with basements or beards but trying to defend being with out honor as a good or acceptable thing is never a winner....

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Sorry work calls. But think about things and when life gets you down remember you don’t need to take it out on others.   Just call your local mental health line👩🏻‍🔬🏃

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And I didn't realize how big the penalty is for being solo until yesterday. Not only can you only control XS from the single player seats (cockpit and hoverseat) but you are limited to 1000 points of "PvP". Each weapon has a "Capacity" which translates directly to "PvP Capactiy". Lasers XS for instance are worth 300 points each and a small radar is worth 500 points. So you can have either two xs lasers (600) points, or a small radar and one weapon.

 

Dual boxers running a Command Seat (12500 points) and a Gunner Seat S (10000) up to a L seat which clocks in at over 1 million points.

 

And yes, you can easily control a gunner with a second controller on a slave account while you pilot with your main account.  Still, Pay to Win (P2W). 

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On 10/9/2020 at 4:49 AM, GraXXoR said:

What? You can vote multiple times? That's not like NQ to implement a useful feature and then make it worthless by leaving it open to abuse...

 

The whole thing is so wide open to abuse, it's pretty much meaningless

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You cant enforce muti-boxing. There is no cost effective way a developer could do it. Countless reasons for several accounts from a single location. Dorms, family accounts are just two off the top of my head. Anyone that multi-boxes could just vote multi times. So i see votes as pointless in this matter. There are plenty of cheats and exploits that should be focused on. Then the few that multi box in a negative way. The games in Beta after all. This is the time you fix those issues. 

 

Now In my opinion. I would like to see a complete server reset. When the game goes live. ( Though not popular ) Maybe allow testers to keep SPs /shrug.

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