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PvP is Broken aka Pay to Win


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Everyone knows bigger guns are better guns when it comes to DPS and DU is no exception. Currently the mechanics of DU are as follows:

 

- Hoover seats and cockpits can only use XS guns.

- Command seats can't use weapons

- Gunner seats are limited to their size and below. S gunner seats can use S and XS weapons, M gunner seats can use M, S, and XS weapons, etc

 

That being said it is pretty obvious where the pay to win aspect comes into play for PvP. Those who pay extra for an entirely new PC and a sub account can multi-box. Multi-boxing is not banned or discouraged by NQ based on this interview:  

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai3Kk37ntgg 

 

Essentially anyone who does mult-iboxing can run both the pilot seat and the gunner seat at the same time.  You just need a twisty joystick or pedal setup to do so. MB's don't need to fly all that well - they just need to keep guns facing the target. MB's just need to be able to shoot half way decent and that is it.

 

With the current "it fits, it ships" methodology of DU players can shove as large guns as they can afford onto their ship. With multi-boxing this means a solo player who is there to enjoy the game with his one computer will be out matched by the multi-boxer.  Add in the "fluid" aka safe zone border exploits that allow attackers to shoot at defenseless ships in the safe zone which people who see no issues with the current multiboxing advantage will happily exploit.

 

It's pay to win in the current state of the game - if you consider PvP victories a win state.

 

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This is so unbelievably stupid.   It's as stupid as solo players complaining that they have no chance against groups of players.   Finally the primary use case of multiboxing isn't

Seriously though, they need to get lots of other features sorted first.   I really hate how they worded territory pvp item as well.   "- Final safe-zone definition" is listed as a

What? You can vote multiple times? That's not like NQ to implement a useful feature and then make it worthless by leaving it open to abuse... 😉

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Considering multiboxing as a P2W is silly at best. Making this claim simply means you have no idea on how unworkable this actually is in a game like DU.

 

Will some people try it? sure.. But there is no benefit here as you can't fly and shoot at the same time.

Will people trying it have an advantage over two people working together? Not a chance in hell.

 

So instead of complaining about a non issue, why don't you go and find someone to play with and have the upper hand when you encounter someone trying to do two jobs at the same time.

 

The "fluid" safe zone is not an exploit, the attacker actually does not know you are seeing yourself as being in the safezone as NQ explained.

 

There is no pay2win in DU..

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29 minutes ago, BaconofWar said:

Everyone knows bigger guns are better guns when it comes to DPS and DU is no exception. Currently the mechanics of DU are as follows:

 

- Hoover seats and cockpits can only use XS guns.

- Command seats can't use weapons

- Gunner seats are limited to their size and below. S gunner seats can use S and XS weapons, M gunner seats can use M, S, and XS weapons, etc

 

That being said it is pretty obvious where the pay to win aspect comes into play for PvP. Those who pay extra for an entirely new PC and a sub account can multi-box. Multi-boxing is not banned or discouraged by NQ based on this interview:  

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai3Kk37ntgg 

 

Essentially anyone who does mult-iboxing can run both the pilot seat and the gunner seat at the same time.  You just need a twisty joystick or pedal setup to do so. MB's don't need to fly all that well - they just need to keep guns facing the target. MB's just need to be able to shoot half way decent and that is it.

 

With the current "it fits, it ships" methodology of DU players can shove as large guns as they can afford onto their ship. With multi-boxing this means a solo player who is there to enjoy the game with his one computer will be out matched by the multi-boxer.  Add in the "fluid" aka safe zone border exploits that allow attackers to shoot at defenseless ships in the safe zone which people who see no issues with the current multiboxing advantage will happily exploit.

 

It's pay to win in the current state of the game - if you consider PvP victories a win state.

 

 

This is so unbelievably stupid.

 

It's as stupid as solo players complaining that they have no chance against groups of players.

 

Finally the primary use case of multiboxing isn't pvp directly but being able to mine on your alt while your pvp alt is stuck on a ship idling or playing an alt as your main is flying between planets.

 

Nevermind that regardless of if NQ allows or prohibits multiboxing - it's impossible to detect so no matter what NQs stance on it was, it would still happen.

 

As I've had to say way way way too many times on this forum - deal with it.

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36 minutes ago, BaconofWar said:

Essentially anyone who does multiboxing can run both the pilot seat and the gunner seat at the same time.

Seems like a valid point. Ignore the person with the donkey avatar; they're a known troll / 'pvp' (read: enjoys ganking defenseless targets) enthusiast.

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Just now, Mordgier said:

 It's ablelist against people who have no friends.

 

This was an unironic argument used in Worlds Adrift by solo players who were constantly ganked by groups....

Well he does have a point in XS weapons being 100% useless with current meta. 

Those XS weapons should have a huge disadvantage but not 100% useless. 

 

But its definitely not "pay to win" . More like "socialize to win" 

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1 minute ago, Emptiness said:

Seems like a valid point. Ignore the person with the donkey avatar; they're a known troll / 'pvp' (read: enjoys ganking defenseless targets) enthusiast.

You should always ignore view points you don't agree with and can't argue with. Easier to just dismiss them as trolls - that way you win the internets.

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1 minute ago, joaocordeiro said:

Well he does have a point in XS weapons being 100% useless with current meta. 

Those XS weapons should have a huge disadvantage but not 100% useless. 

 

But its definitely not "pay to win" . More like "socialize to win" 

Sure but the pvp balance has nothing to do with multiboxing.

 

I've posted extensively on how broken pvp is and I'm no fan of the current meta.

 

The point is that multiboxing a pilot and gunner is much worse than having 2 actual players. Most who do multibox do so to engage in a passive activity like camping, traveling, scanning and an active activity like mining at the same time - at the cost of having 2 PCs and 2 accounts. Many have multiple accounts as is that they do not use at the same time. I have 3 accounts but only have ever played two at the same time and never to pilot and gun because that would put me at a massive disadvantage vs a real crew.

 

On the other hand mining while essentially AFK camping is pretty nice.

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XS Weapons not being viable and other issues with PVP are balance concerns or missing features NQ need to address (And there is a PVP V2 on the roadmap for beta, and they have stated it is not complete on multiple occasions).


To connect that to multiboxing being pay to win is like saying that a rise in stork flights caused an increase in the newborn population.

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What is authorized or forbidden

  • Modifying the game files is forbidden, (except for the "Game/data/lua" folder (this is the only location where you can add or modify files).
  • Modifying the game cache is forbidden (by default it is located in the directory C:\Users\<user>\AppData\Local\NQ\DualUniverse\) ;
  • Reading or modifying the game memory is forbidden.
  • Disabling, modifying, or attempting to evade the anti-cheat in any way is forbidden.
  • Playing at the same time with two or more accounts is forbidden (having several accounts is fine as long as you only play with only one at a time).
     
  • multi boxing is still FORBIDDEN for those who can’t scroll up to the official rules.   Game never intended for solo players to run gunships.  And someone complained about others being antisocial 😂. Instead of breaking the rules get a buddy on your gun.
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This here is the classic example of hearsay because I bet you anything the OP do have a clue of what it’s been claim.

Second, this is also why every time someone says, “but they said it on this video” bs I cringe a little, because if it’s not written down, as our fellow player @toziopshowed, I could care less on what NQ say on any video past, present or future.

And last, Pay to Win, aka P2W is term to describe the action of buying in-game items for real life money in order to acquire an unfair advantage. This in no way constitutes P2W at all.

Now with that out of way, can I get my 20 neurons that died while reading the OP?

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Just now, Iorail said:

 

Second, this is also why every time someone says, “but they said it on this video” bs I cringe a little, because if it’s not written down, as our fellow player @toziopshowed, I could care less on what NQ say on any video past, present or future.

 

I will take what JC says as gospel vs what anyone besides JC posts - everyone NQ- is his subordinate and JC is the ultimate source of policy when it comes to the game.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, toziop said:

What is authorized or forbidden

  • Modifying the game files is forbidden, (except for the "Game/data/lua" folder (this is the only location where you can add or modify files).
  • Modifying the game cache is forbidden (by default it is located in the directory C:\Users\<user>\AppData\Local\NQ\DualUniverse\) ;
  • Reading or modifying the game memory is forbidden.
  • Disabling, modifying, or attempting to evade the anti-cheat in any way is forbidden.
  • Playing at the same time with two or more accounts is forbidden (having several accounts is fine as long as you only play with only one at a time).
     
  • multi boxing is still FORBIDDEN for those who can’t scroll up to the official rules.   Game never intended for solo players to run gunships.  And someone complained about others being antisocial 😂. Instead of breaking the rules get a buddy on your gun.

You do understand that that was written in the context of an anticheat program right?
All that says for sure is that running multiple instances of DU on the same computer is not allowed (mainly because the anticheat cannot support it)

@blazemonger Said in another topic that playing in different computers has been cleared as allowed. But I would love for @NQ-Naerais to clear if this restriction also applies to different computers.

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9 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

You do understand that that was written in the context of an anticheat program right?
All that says for sure is that running multiple instances of DU on the same computer is not allowed (mainly because the anticheat cannot support it)

@blazemonger Said in another topic that playing in different computers has been cleared as allowed. But I would love for @NQ-Naerais to clear if this restriction also applies to different computers.

This was already clarified, multiboxing is not allowed but playing 2+ accounts in different computers from the same IP is allow, if not, what do you think it will happen when one person on a college dorm starts to play and another person on the same dorm starts to play too...

I’ll give you a better example, I have 3 computers in my house capable of running the game and I have played at the same time that my son is playing, but if this wasn’t allowed, how do JC propose to fix it for families that play togheter? And I’m not the only one, I have personal friends that I play with that also play with their families at the same time. Not allowing this means none of us could play together, meaning loosing subs. You understand this now? 

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15 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

I will take what JC says as gospel vs what anyone besides JC posts - everyone NQ- is his subordinate and JC is the ultimate source of policy when it comes to the game.

 

 

So you feel that the player base should go to marke for the official rules of gameplay😂where does it say or link his stream to back this up?

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5 minutes ago, Iorail said:

This was already clarified, multiboxing is not allowed but playing 2+ accounts in different computers from the same IP is allow, if not, what do you think it will happen when one person on a college dorm starts to play and another person on the same dorm starts to play too...

I’ll give you a better example, I have 3 computers in my house capable of running the game and I have played at the same time that my son is playing, but if this wasn’t allowed, how do JC propose to fix it for families that play togheter? And I’m not the only one, I have personal friends that I play with that also play with their families at the same time. Not allowing this means none of us could play together, meaning loosing subs. You understand this now? 

You say so but it’s not reflected in the rules so it’s just your opinion.   Until the rules are changed everyone is playing as they read except cheaters.   And as you stated. Multi boxing is not allowed.....

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1 minute ago, toziop said:

So you feel that the player base should go to marke for the official rules of gameplay😂where does it say or link his stream to back this up?

Why yes I do think that it is reasonable to ask questions of the creative director and ceo of NQ during his live stream events and ask him to clarify policies which is exactly what happened during the stream linked above and the stream that I linked to you over and over.

 

JC has the final say on the game. Because it's HIS GAME. Literally everybody else works for him.

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4 minutes ago, toziop said:

You seem to not remember him saying in the stream” we will have to look into this” so he was talking not setting rules there

You need to pay attention. He was talking about running on the same pc vs a second physical. The current limitation is EQU8 which prevents multiple instances on one machine and also freaks out on virtual machines which is why JC was specific about PHYSICAL machines. That is what they will one day look into - but until then physical machines are OK.

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9 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

You need to pay attention. He was talking about running on the same pc vs a second physical. The current limitation is EQU8 which prevents multiple instances on one machine and also freaks out on virtual machines which is why JC was specific about PHYSICAL machines. That is what they will one day look into - but until then physical machines are OK.

So if as you say multi boxing is ok. Why not say in the game description that 2 accounts will be needed for solo pvp play. Or maybe make it possible to put any guns on a ship that will fit it? Also 2 accounts is ok like he said. But multi boxing them to go around intended game play is not.....think dude

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15 minutes ago, toziop said:

You say so but it’s not reflected in the rules so it’s just your opinion.   Until the rules are changed everyone is playing as they read except cheaters.   And as you stated. Multi boxing is not allowed.....

Do you know what multiboxing is? Playing on 2 different computers, with 2 different accounts by 2 different people on the same IP is not multiboxing......
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-boxing

 

Multiboxing or dual boxing is when one person runs multiple instances of the game in the same or in different computers.
 

It will be impossible for JC/NQ to regulate this either way, as families play together on the same IP, college dorm students share the same IP, Internet cafes share the same IP, do you understand now?

 

 

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